ROHWorld.com Forum

Yeah, I get what you're saying man, but I look at it kind of like the salary cap in sports. You aren't going to overpay for free agents (i.e. Bennett and Moose), but you can afford to make a splash in free agency with cap room (i.e. The Hardys and Bully Ray). At the same time the cap space can afford you the luxury of re-signing talent worthy of a pay increase (The Young Bucks).

I was discussing with someone in the business recently about the signing of Bully Ray. I don't have anything against him at all....he has done some great things in his career. I just don't get the interest from ROH. He would add to house gates in the Northeast, but outside of there I'm not sure the return on investment is there.

Maybe I am in the minority. Again, not trying to crap on Bully Ray, just don't know about that return if you are relegating him to 6 man tags with Dem Boys.

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:Yeah, I get what you're saying man, but I look at it kind of like the salary cap in sports. You aren't going to overpay for free agents (i.e. Bennett and Moose), but you can afford to make a splash in free agency with cap room (i.e. The Hardys and Bully Ray). At the same time the cap space can afford you the luxury of re-signing talent worthy of a pay increase (The Young Bucks).

A lot of the talents they have chosen to overpay have also been to keep them from going elsewhere on some merit like the Bucks. In their case, they are on a deal where they will be paid more into the second year of their contract too. Lethal claimed to at least have not been contacted by WWE prior to signing his recent two-year deal. Not saying that it is impossible for ROH to meet a return on the amount that they are paying an act like the Bucks, but with the way that they tend to do things and their ceiling, I do find it difficult to believe that they would meet that return.

In the context of Sydal specifically though, of course he is a very talented wrestler. With the fact that he only has one booking the entire WM weekend which has a sea of shows, that is part of my belief as to why he must charge a decent amount in a manner similar to Ryback and John Morrison (not saying as much) who also supposedly charge a lot and see little bookings. Add that onto his recent legal issues and I can understand why ROH may not want to rush to use him.

The catch is finding talent to use to fill that void. Don't know if a Bully Ray is necessarily an answer in that regard. I commend his ability at least in terms of being able to heavily get crowds invested into his matches. He has said in an interview recently that he wants to play the role of a Terry Funk in ECW to the ROH roster, but with his track record of lack of putting talent over in addition to other factors such as the fact that he hit his peak in terms of work/character/shape about four-five years ago, I don't know how good of an investment he is necessarily.

project161 wrote:

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:Yeah, I get what you're saying man, but I look at it kind of like the salary cap in sports. You aren't going to overpay for free agents (i.e. Bennett and Moose), but you can afford to make a splash in free agency with cap room (i.e. The Hardys and Bully Ray). At the same time the cap space can afford you the luxury of re-signing talent worthy of a pay increase (The Young Bucks).

A lot of the talents they have chosen to overpay have also been to keep them from going elsewhere on some merit like the Bucks. In their case, they are on a deal where they will be paid more into the second year of their contract too. Lethal claimed to at least have not been contacted by WWE prior to signing his recent two-year deal. Not saying that it is impossible for ROH to meet a return on the amount that they are paying an act like the Bucks, but with the way that they tend to do things and their ceiling, I do find it difficult to believe that they would meet that return.

In the context of Sydal specifically though, of course he is a very talented wrestler. With the fact that he only has one booking the entire WM weekend which has a sea of shows, that is part of my belief as to why he must charge a decent amount in a manner similar to Ryback and John Morrison (not saying as much) who also supposedly charge a lot and see little bookings. Add that onto his recent legal issues and I can understand why ROH may not want to rush to use him.

The catch is finding talent to use to fill that void. Don't know if a Bully Ray is necessarily an answer in that regard. I commend his ability at least in terms of being able to heavily get crowds invested into his matches. He has said in an interview recently that he wants to play the role of a Terry Funk in ECW to the ROH roster, but with his track record of lack of putting talent over in addition to other factors such as the fact that he hit his peak in terms of work/character/shape about four-five years ago, I don't know how good of an investment he is necessarily.

Bully Ray was a risk signing I agree. If he fills the Terry Funk role that would be cool. As far as The Young Bucks, sometimes you have to overspend and I think they justify their contracts. They draw. They are over. It is what it is.

project161 wrote: Mike Bennett was let go due to not wanting to pay him as much. Moose got a higher money offer from TNA. Wouldn't be surprised if Fish potentially leaving is due to money in some regards as with other talents that have left.

Hardys bring more name value overall, although I don't know how much of it will be returned necessarily. I guess Ray does to some extent, but not in a way that I would imagine would be worth whatever they are paying him. Bucks and Lethal they have invested a lot in, Bucks in terms of money to keep them on the roster while Lethal they have in terms of building him up and keeping him as an "ace" of theirs.

I know others have responded, but Bennett nor Maria deserved more money to stay. Bennett wasn't going to go further in ROH and Maria had been one of the top heels for quite awhile. Moose was a loss, but you need to take into account how TNA were paying people which was much different to ROH. When talent work for ROH, they get paid per appearance, but they make more appearances than they would if they worked for TNA because TNA doesn't tour, however, under Dixie TNA were paying guys per appearances on an episode of Impact, so Bennett if he was making $1,000 per appearance on an episode and was making three appearances per episode, was making $3,000, in a taping for TNA he could be walking out with $9,000 if they used him enough. When Anthem took over they changed this - because it was the biggest reason TNA were bleeding money - so that they are now paid for working the taping alone, like how ROH does, so Bennett obviously wasn't going to stick around to make say that $1,000 because in his eyes he's worth more.

So if everyone turns up that have bought tickets as the seat charting is saying, there will be over 3000 fans in attendance, I doubt they will be able to get the complete 4000 which is a shame and honestly I do feel ROH should be getting those numbers by now but I think 3000 is still a good outcome considering where the building is, the matches signed and the current roster situation.

If ROH though gets the remainder of tickets between now and then it will be a great result, even if they are down to the last 100 then that would be great and imagine it will look great on camera.

Should bring in that stage from the February 2016 Nashville TV taping.

BurningHammer wrote:So if everyone turns up that have bought tickets as the seat charting is saying, there will be over 3000 fans in attendance, I doubt they will be able to get the complete 4000 which is a shame and honestly I do feel ROH should be getting those numbers by now but I think 3000 is still a good outcome considering where the building is, the matches signed and the current roster situation.

If ROH though gets the remainder of tickets between now and then it will be a great result, even if they are down to the last 100 then that would be great and imagine it will look great on camera.

I believe someone can verify this but I read somewhere that it was only being set-up for 3,000?

And for what its worth, when I tried to buy 250 of the tickets remaining, it wouldn't allow that quantity. When I tried 220, it did, so if that's a sign of anything there are less than 250 tickets left.

I know ROH isn't into papering crowds, but if there are less than 100 tickets left come Friday they should just send someone out to hand the rest of the tickets out. It wouldn't be that big of a loss I'd assume and it would make the show look better.

If it looks half as good as Supercard of Honor in New Orleans did, It'll look awesome. That is easily for me the best arena ROH has ran for the crowd they got in. At least it's not like when they were running the Norfolk Scope and getting 450 people in back during the Cornette days.

The Dragon Saga wrote:

BurningHammer wrote:So if everyone turns up that have bought tickets as the seat charting is saying, there will be over 3000 fans in attendance, I doubt they will be able to get the complete 4000 which is a shame and honestly I do feel ROH should be getting those numbers by now but I think 3000 is still a good outcome considering where the building is, the matches signed and the current roster situation.

If ROH though gets the remainder of tickets between now and then it will be a great result, even if they are down to the last 100 then that would be great and imagine it will look great on camera.

I believe someone can verify this but I read somewhere that it was only being set-up for 3,000?

And for what its worth, when I tried to buy 250 of the tickets remaining, it wouldn't allow that quantity. When I tried 220, it did, so if that's a sign of anything there are less than 250 tickets left.

I know ROH isn't into papering crowds, but if there are less than 100 tickets left come Friday they should just send someone out to hand the rest of the tickets out. It wouldn't be that big of a loss I'd assume and it would make the show look better.

If it looks half as good as Supercard of Honor in New Orleans did, It'll look awesome. That is easily for me the best arena ROH has ran for the crowd they got in. At least it's not like when they were running the Norfolk Scope and getting 450 people in back during the Cornette days.

Hmm, wouldn't that mean if ROH didn't sell out the all time attendance record wouldn't be beaten or if so it would only be like by a couple of 100. If it is only 3,000 then it wont look as grand because there are still 900 or so off selling out. If you go to the seating plan for the arena it gives you specific sections with the amounts of seats available, I think the highest available in one section is 145 something like that.

Ah, I didn't see the seating plan, only the ticket choice, so they must be going for 4,000 then.

And also, I thought the record attendance was 2,600 or something? If they have 3,000, that's breaking it.

The Dragon Saga wrote:Ah, I didn't see the seating plan, only the ticket choice, so they must be going for 4,000 then.

And also, I thought the record attendance was 2,600 or something? If they have 3,000, that's breaking it.

Mmmm, I think that the record attendance was 2.500 (more or less) for a Hammerstein show. Or maybe, I'm not sure about this, the Field of Honor show from 2015. I remember reading that they sold like 2.300-2.500 tickets for that show.

The Dragon Saga wrote:Ah, I didn't see the seating plan, only the ticket choice, so they must be going for 4,000 then.

And also, I thought the record attendance was 2,600 or something? If they have 3,000, that's breaking it.

No worries, I've just been checking for a while to see how it's been going.

I just think if you really want to be shown you are breaking records having that 1,000 more or close to would really be shown you are part of something special, I just think if they have say only a few hundred more than previous record despite it breaking it, it just doesn't feel like it should be shouted about.

I hope ROH can really get close to the 4,000 as that really would be nice, so far I think if my maths is right (it usually isn't) ROH is looking 3,053. I think your idea of giving away the last 100 is a good one and should be done really if they are that close.

Also If the building is cheap and the buy rate for the IPPV is a good one, with also VOD buys if it's successful event ROH will probably make a killing here. I didn't realise till now that front row, or the front section were $100 dollar tickets, the cheapest being $25.

How many of us here think Kenny omega is going to so up for Supercard? <Fingers crossed>

Well, as I said like a month ago, Kenny Omega won't be at Supercard of Honor. It is impossible! He is announced for every Road to Sakura Genesis show, that means he will be wrestling in Japan from March 29th until Abril 9th. That's why ROH announced HASHI and Liger in first place, bc every big NJPW superstar will be wrestling at the Road to Sakura Genesis tour.

Yeah, it would be awesome to see Kenny, but we will have to wait until the War of the Worlds Tour.

BurningHammer wrote:

The Dragon Saga wrote:Ah, I didn't see the seating plan, only the ticket choice, so they must be going for 4,000 then.

And also, I thought the record attendance was 2,600 or something? If they have 3,000, that's breaking it.

No worries, I've just been checking for a while to see how it's been going.

I just think if you really want to be shown you are breaking records having that 1,000 more or close to would really be shown you are part of something special, I just think if they have say only a few hundred more than previous record despite it breaking it, it just doesn't feel like it should be shouted about.

I hope ROH can really get close to the 4,000 as that really would be nice, so far I think if my maths is right (it usually isn't) ROH is looking 3,053. I think your idea of giving away the last 100 is a good one and should be done really if they are that close.

Also If the building is cheap and the buy rate for the IPPV is a good one, with also VOD buys if it's successful event ROH will probably make a killing here. I didn't realise till now that front row, or the front section were $100 dollar tickets, the cheapest being $25.

I thought Kevin Kelly mentioned the record attendance was Field of Honor 2015 somewhere around 2,500. 3,000 is pretty good comparatively considering that that 2,500 number was obtained on a Summerslam weekend with the New Japan Aces on the show.

The Dragon Saga wrote:If someone wasn't preventing Sydal from coming back, he'd be back. He and Delirious are like best friends. It's probably on the Sinclair end, being so conservative and all they probably don't like the idea of associating themselves with Sydal after the Japan incident.

I had a similar feeling about this but I assumed it was New Japan keeping him out of ROH rather than Sinclair.

FanSinceHDNet wrote:

BurningHammer wrote:

The Dragon Saga wrote:Ah, I didn't see the seating plan, only the ticket choice, so they must be going for 4,000 then.

And also, I thought the record attendance was 2,600 or something? If they have 3,000, that's breaking it.

No worries, I've just been checking for a while to see how it's been going.

I just think if you really want to be shown you are breaking records having that 1,000 more or close to would really be shown you are part of something special, I just think if they have say only a few hundred more than previous record despite it breaking it, it just doesn't feel like it should be shouted about.

I hope ROH can really get close to the 4,000 as that really would be nice, so far I think if my maths is right (it usually isn't) ROH is looking 3,053. I think your idea of giving away the last 100 is a good one and should be done really if they are that close.

Also If the building is cheap and the buy rate for the IPPV is a good one, with also VOD buys if it's successful event ROH will probably make a killing here. I didn't realise till now that front row, or the front section were $100 dollar tickets, the cheapest being $25.

I thought Kevin Kelly mentioned the record attendance was Field of Honor 2015 somewhere around 2,500. 3,000 is pretty good comparatively considering that that 2,500 number was obtained on a Summerslam weekend with the New Japan Aces on the show.

Yeah I think 2500 is probably the right number, I don't want to undermine the achievement as I think I'm probably coming off like I am, I just think considering the weekend and the people they have in then I think they should be doing been a sell out. Like I say there is a lot to consider with the event especially location and I think ROH has done well to get as far as they have I just think after 15 years ROH by now should be getting 3000 or 4000 without too much bother on a weekend/week like this but maybe I am thinking ROH is bigger than it actually is and just getting this far is enough.

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:

project161 wrote:

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:Yeah, I get what you're saying man, but I look at it kind of like the salary cap in sports. You aren't going to overpay for free agents (i.e. Bennett and Moose), but you can afford to make a splash in free agency with cap room (i.e. The Hardys and Bully Ray). At the same time the cap space can afford you the luxury of re-signing talent worthy of a pay increase (The Young Bucks).

A lot of the talents they have chosen to overpay have also been to keep them from going elsewhere on some merit like the Bucks. In their case, they are on a deal where they will be paid more into the second year of their contract too. Lethal claimed to at least have not been contacted by WWE prior to signing his recent two-year deal. Not saying that it is impossible for ROH to meet a return on the amount that they are paying an act like the Bucks, but with the way that they tend to do things and their ceiling, I do find it difficult to believe that they would meet that return.

In the context of Sydal specifically though, of course he is a very talented wrestler. With the fact that he only has one booking the entire WM weekend which has a sea of shows, that is part of my belief as to why he must charge a decent amount in a manner similar to Ryback and John Morrison (not saying as much) who also supposedly charge a lot and see little bookings. Add that onto his recent legal issues and I can understand why ROH may not want to rush to use him.

The catch is finding talent to use to fill that void. Don't know if a Bully Ray is necessarily an answer in that regard. I commend his ability at least in terms of being able to heavily get crowds invested into his matches. He has said in an interview recently that he wants to play the role of a Terry Funk in ECW to the ROH roster, but with his track record of lack of putting talent over in addition to other factors such as the fact that he hit his peak in terms of work/character/shape about four-five years ago, I don't know how good of an investment he is necessarily.

Bully Ray was a risk signing I agree. If he fills the Terry Funk role that would be cool. As far as The Young Bucks, sometimes you have to overspend and I think they justify their contracts. They draw. They are over. It is what it is.

I don't think Bully works in the Terry Funk role because Bully doesn't have the technical wrestling credibility that ROH has been built on the way that Terry had credibility as a brawler for ECW. ROH had its Terry Funk. His name was Jerry Lynn, most people took a sh*t on him for no reason other than that he was "old" ignoring the fact that he could still go.

Lynn lacked charisma, his promos were either humdrum or hilariously dreadful, and his selling had major holes in his career. He can blame others for his failure to the heights of his contemporaries like Benoit and Eddie, but he's no tragic "should've been huge" prospect like Low Ki, Homicide, Paul London, Alex Shelley, Nigel McGuinness, and Christopher Daniels - those guys DID have the various tools to be breakout but were victims of the WWE's primitive hiring practices in the 2000s.

ROH doesn't need a Terry Funk on the technical wrestling side. That's what Christopher Daniels, BJ Whitmer, Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, Caprice Coleman, Colt Cabana, Delirious, Frankie Kazarian, Stevie Richards (whenever they book him) and Rocky Romero are for.

Bubba flat out said why he came to ROH himself... to help guys learn to get their characters over. To get people to care about matches for reasons beyond technical or athletic marvel.

And it's not like Bubba's terrible in the ring. Especially for a guy his size and age. He's been in more great matches than I can count. Partially because he's been in there with great talent, and equally because he understands storytelling from every angle, including during the match.