I think it's time for Delirious to step down as booker

[fm20000]

We have the most stacked ROH roster in years

Undoubtedly the BEST tag division in the world right now

Jay Lethal on a monster tear as double champion

And all we get are fuck finishes, shitty stables, and the Kingdom.


How many masked people have we got interfering in matches over his run? And seriously like 4 people interfering in the main event so fucking Mike Bennett and Matt Taven can stand tall at the end? Does he not hear how over some people are and then EVERY time Bennett and Taven do anything you can hear people whispering in the crowd

And then the tag division. HOW MANY 3-4 way tag matches are we going to get on a PPV that end in cheating bullshit?


I know he has deep ties in the company and all, but he is just a flat out boring booker. Name ONE memorable angle in his entire run as booker?

[Fawrules]

We have the most stacked ROH roster in years

Undoubtedly the BEST tag division in the world right now

Jay Lethal on a monster tear as double champion

And all we get are fuck finishes, shitty stables, and the Kingdom.


How many masked people have we got interfering in matches over his run? And seriously like 4 people interfering in the main event so fucking Mike Bennett and Matt Taven can stand tall at the end? Does he not hear how over some people are and then EVERY time Bennett and Taven do anything you can hear people whispering in the crowd

I...like the Kingdom... At least as Cole's flunkies. Don't mind the finish of the main event if it leads to Kyle winning the belt on his next shot, but...not sure that's in the cards. Seems to be building to Cole/Kyle O'Reilly. But yeah, while I'm not exactly calling for the lizard man's head, I wouldn't mind if they handed the reigns over to someone else.

Who exactly's out there that could do the job, though? Cornette was universally reviled, Pearce is working for NXT, Gabe/WWN are rumored to have a working relationship with the WWE. Honest question.

Timing out the PPVs is also a big issue, at least to me personally. Had the fuck finish happened 20+ minutes into a grueling, great main event I think it comes off slightly better.

Ah, well, 'least we've all got something to complain about tonight.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

Nah. If you didn't see a similar finish coming in the main event, then I'm not sure what to tell you. I thought it was pretty obvious from the get-go that this was setting up a rematch, O'Reilly needed to remain strong, and the only real option was for him to get screwed somehow. Not to mention this has always been presented as a somewhat lesser PPV.

Agree on the Kingdom stuff though. Tag champs I can see since they've had championship success in NJPW and it's not like the Addiction was setting the world on fire. Need someone to hold the titles until War Machine gets back to the states.

Wasn't a fan of the KRD thing either, but whatever. I don't disagree with the booking so much, but it would be better on TV rather than a PPV.

Overall, I think the main event scene has been booked extremely well over Delirious's entire tenure as booker. Well thought out and a number of meaningful slow building rivalries. At the same time, he's managed to keep pretty unpredictable on occasion.

[Fawrules]

Nah. If you didn't see a similar finish coming in the main event, then I'm not sure what to tell you. I thought it was pretty obvious from the get-go that this was setting up a rematch, O'Reilly needed to remain strong, and the only real option was for him to get screwed somehow. Not to mention this has always been presented as a somewhat lesser PPV.

Agree on the Kingdom stuff though. Tag champs I can see since they've had championship success in NJPW and it's not like the Addiction was setting the world on fire. Need someone to hold the titles until War Machine gets back to the states.

Wasn't a fan of the KRD thing either, but whatever. I don't disagree with the booking so much, but it would be better on TV rather than a PPV.

Overall, I think the main event scene has been booked extremely well over Delirious's entire tenure as booker. Well thought out and a number of meaningful slow building rivalries. At the same time, he's managed to keep pretty unpredictable on occasion.

As soon as Cole ate the pin in the prior match and they zoomed in on his face I was like "Fuck..."

Though I feel like if they'd had Kyle lose to Lethal clean in Lethal's second match of the night people would of been complaining about that as well.

[lariat_tubman]

There does seem to be a real reliance of fuck finishes lately. I haven't watch the PPV yet so I cant comment on it but at least on TV it seems like the only way they set up rematches is by someone interfering.

[187_Joeism]

The Kingdom is having a great year, i think it´s stubborn to not give them credit at this point.

Cole angle was well played because he never attacked The Kingdom and was a good surprise here, i was not a fan of all the shenanigans during the Maint Event but the turn itself was good done IMO.

Heels are always going to cheat, i don´t understand the obssesion with clean finishes when the heel is winning, it´s how wrestling work you are the bad guy you don´t care about how you win.

Good angles booked by Delirious you have Jay vs Cole and Lethal vs Jay, i don´t think he is an excellent booker by any means, but he is not bad either.

[fm20000]

The Kingdom is having a great year, i think it´s stubborn to not give them credit at this point.

Cole angle was well played because he never attacked The Kingdom and was a good surprise here, i was not a fan of all the shenanigans during the Maint Event but the turn itself was good done IMO.

Heels are always going to cheat, i don´t understand the obssesion with clean finishes when the heel is winning, it´s how wrestling work you are the bad guy you don´t care about how you win.

Good angles booked by Delirious you have Jay vs Cole and Lethal vs Jay, i don´t think he is an excellent booker by any means, but he is not bad either.

They need to book Jay Lethal like Nigel

[Fawrules]

There does seem to be a real reliance of fuck finishes lately. I haven't watch the PPV yet so I cant comment on it but at least on TV it seems like the only way they set up rematches is by someone interfering.

I feel like you can get away with it on TV some weeks, but they REALLY need to dial back on in before they completely alienate large portions of their fan base. Particularly on PPV/iPPV.

[Burnside]

Heels are always going to cheat, i don´t understand the obssesion with clean finishes when the heel is winning, it´s how wrestling work you are the bad guy you don´t care about how you win.

.

Screwy finishes are fine once in a while. But if you use them in match after match, up and down the card, fans start to expect them and begin to not believe they'll see a clear winner, which pretty soon makes them not give a shit about the matches. See: WCW, TNA.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

Maybe I'll re-phrase what I said. I think Delirious's big picture/long-term booking is excellent. The booking of specific matches along the way is sometimes hit or miss. He seems to have a tendency to overthink/overbook how some matches play out.
His willingness to bring in outside or part time talent is great. Booking exciting matches for the majority of house shows has been great, if random at times.

He's not without his flaws, but I think the positives definitely outweigh his negatives.

[187_Joeism]

Heels are always going to cheat, i don´t understand the obssesion with clean finishes when the heel is winning, it´s how wrestling work you are the bad guy you don´t care about how you win.

.

Screwy finishes are fine once in a while. But if you use them in match after match, up and down the card, fans start to expect them and begin to not believe they'll see a clear winner, which pretty soon makes them not give a shit about the matches. See: WCW, TNA.

I agree with this, they are using them a lot lately.

They need to book Jay Lethal like Nigel

Lethal gimmick it´s totally different than Nigel.

[DXvsNWO1994]

The Kingdom is having a great year, i think it´s stubborn to not give them credit at this point.

The Kingdom is having a good year, but I'd say that's more specific to ROH. I enjoyed their stuff on the Winter Warriors Tour (specifically Dayton & Atlanta), and I really dug their two Six-Man Tags with The Bullet Cub (one of them I saw live). Their work in New Japan, however, has been pretty disappointing. Those matches with Anderson & Gallows were the worst part of New Japan PPV's in the Spring/Summer Months.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

Those matches with Anderson & Gallows were the worst part of New Japan PPV's in the Spring/Summer Months.

Isn't there an unwritten rule to never bring that debacle up ever again?

[Burnside]

I think if you're only doing 4 TV ppvs per year, and you're charging $40 for them, you can't do this finish for your PPV world title match. Do this on TV.

[187_Joeism]

I liked some of their "Road to" matches and last year in the G1 tag they were good but their matches against Anderson & Gallows are horrible for some reason

[lariat_tubman]

I always thought the issue with the Kingdom wasn't their quality of work, it's the fact that they have never gotten much of a reaction.

[BlackLesnar]

I quite liked the ME finish. It's too soon for Lethal to drop the belt, but O'Reilly would look like a chump if he lost clean to a guy who'd already had a match. So I figured/hoped SOMETHING screwy wold go down. Except I was leaning towards a Bobby Fish turn. What we got was seriously unexpected. And makes total sense. And has legs for some really intense feuding & astounding matches from here on out. A spectacular GOTCHA moment all around.

Other than that though, yeah. I wouldn't mind some new creative vision.

[Fawrules]

I quite liked the ME finish. It's too soon for Lethal to drop the belt, but O'Reilly would look like a chump if he lost clean to a guy who'd already had a match. So I figured/hoped SOMETHING screwy wold go down. Except I was leaning towards a Bobby Fish turn. What we got was seriously unexpected. And makes total sense. And has legs for some really intense feuding & astounding matches from here on out. A spectacular GOTCHA moment all around.

Other than that though, yeah. I wouldn't mind some new creative vision.

I personally wouldn't have minded it, had it not come at the expense of a PPV main event. As I specified earlier, save that shit for TV and it's fine.

[187_Joeism]

Even if they change the booker the things that fm20000 complained are not going to change i think.

You have a stacked tag team division and you are going to need to book multiman matches to keep everybody involved.

The Kingdom are not going anywhere, if not like some new booker would fired them.

Cheat finishes are always going to happen with more or less frequency.

[WHG]

I contend that ROH is the toughest promotion in the world to book. Limited budgets, taping 4 weeks of TV at a time while running house shows that (unlike TNA & the WWE) are all expected to be unique and stand on their own to some degree, a mix of contracted talent and free agents, having to worry about PPV builds and one-off "big" shows like Field of Honor or the NJPW shows in between. It's not an easy job. My only real complaints are PPV shenanigans and overuse of some finishes or spots.

What he really needs is someone to edit his in-match booking...like someone to say "wait...no" when he gets to the part about Dijak running in during the main event tonight.

The bottom line, though, is regardless of what you think of him creatively, the metrics for their business demonstrate that he's doing a lot right and it'd be hard to justify removing him because some people subjectively don't like his finishes.