Official Reload Tour 2015 Thread

[Burnside]

Lethal beating Moose clean is the worst posible booking because it hurts Moose and doesn´t do anything for Lethal because it´s not even a Title Match. If Moose has a competitive match with Lethal and Cedric cost him the match you elevate Moose and keep his feud with Cedric without hurting anyone.

Losing by screw job does not elevate Moose. It doesn't elevate anyone.

Beating Moose clean is good for Jay Lethal and the two singles titles he's holding.

If you want to elevate Moose, don't book him against Lethal.

If you want people to care about matches, use screwjob finishes very sparingly. We're being trained to expect screwy finishes. That's really bad and is the hallmark of promotions with serious booking problems (WCW, TNA, Dusty-era Crockett).

[187_Joeism]

@TheLone You don´t have to like the feud but it´s not a shitty feud, it has help Moose to stop the booing from the crowd and has give Alexander something fresh to do since turning heel.

Every match doesn´t have to finish clean, if you can advance a feud you should do it. Moose winning a local is less more important that losing to Lethal because of Cedric.

[187_Joeism]

Lethal beating Moose clean is the worst posible booking because it hurts Moose and doesn´t do anything for Lethal because it´s not even a Title Match. If Moose has a competitive match with Lethal and Cedric cost him the match you elevate Moose and keep his feud with Cedric without hurting anyone.

Losing by screw job does not elevate Moose. It doesn't elevate anyone.

Beating Moose clean is good for Jay Lethal and the two singles titles he's holding.

If you want to elevate Moose, don't book him against Lethal.

Having a good showing against Lethal elevate Moose wich is why they should book him against him.

Lethal beating Moose clean right now does nothing for him because Moose is not undefeated and is in the middle of a feud with Cedric build around Cedric beating Moose using a wrench.

[Thelone]

@TheLone You don´t have to like the feud but it´s not a shitty feud, it has help Moose to stop the booing from the crowd and has give Alexander something fresh to do since turning heel.

It's been going on for way too long and is hurting both guys frankly. Cedric just lost to CAPRICE FUCKING COLEMAN on TV because of this feud (here's another crap finish that didn't help anyone btw), and Moose is basically just another dude in the midcard now.

Every match doesn´t have to finish clean, if you can advance a feud you should do it. Moose winning a local is less more important that losing to Lethal because of Cedric.

Except it doesn't advance anything to do a bullshit finish here and they just did this a week ago.

[187_Joeism]

We are never going to get to an agreement i see I like and understand Delirious booking for the most part it sucks that you don´t because then you are not enjoying what you are seeing it.

[Big Red Machine]

It´s what it should happen, Cedric costing Moose the match (DQ or not) to follow their feud

If everyone can predict the DQ and interference finishes from a mile away, there is a booking problem and there are too many screwy finishes.

It's particularly bad in this case considering the recent Briscoe vs Moose match that pissed the crowd off because of the non-finish.

If you can't do a clean finish, don't book the match. 19 times out of 20. If the screw jobs are rare, then they're important. If they're on every show, often more than once per show, then the booking is weak.

This. This right here. THIS is how screwy finishes should be employed.

Jay Lethal is the world champ. He should beat Moose clean.

I'd be fine with Moose lasting the time limit to earn a future title shot and losing clean then.

[Big Red Machine]

This shitty feud with Alexander is hurting him a lot more than losing to the world (and TV) champion clean. Again, you don't have to book this match if you can't have a proper finish, that's the whole point of pro wrestling. What's stopping Delirious to book Moose vs. some local guy in a squash or fairly swift enhancement match, then Cedric comes out afterwards and lays him out with his wrench ?

His addled, uncreative lizard-brain.

[Big Red Machine]

Lethal beating Moose clean is the worst posible booking because it hurts Moose and doesn´t do anything for Lethal because it´s not even a Title Match. If Moose has a competitive match with Lethal and Cedric cost him the match you elevate Moose and keep his feud with Cedric without hurting anyone.

Losing by screw job does not elevate Moose. It doesn't elevate anyone.

Beating Moose clean is good for Jay Lethal and the two singles titles he's holding.

If you want to elevate Moose, don't book him against Lethal.

Having a good showing against Lethal elevate Moose wich is why they should book him against him.

Lethal beating Moose clean right now does nothing for him because Moose is not undefeated and is in the middle of a feud with Cedric build around Cedric beating Moose using a wrench.

I agree with you in theory, but it just feels like we've seen Cedric screw Moose a million times already.

[Big Red Machine]

LOL. Just realized I sound like I'm agree with both sides here. That's what I get for reading each post and responding to it one at a time instead of waiting until the end. Good points by both sides.
As a result of this, I have come up with a "best of both worlds" type of finish for this match:
You have Moose have a great showing and do a big double-down on the outside spot. As the ref approaches the twenty-count, Cedric comes out to attack Moose with the wrench, but Moose avoids the wrench and takes Cedric out with a spear...but this allows Lethal to slip back into the ring and beat the twenty-count while Moose is counted out.
Moose has a good showing and doesn't lose clean but he loses nonetheless to avoid him being given a world title shot. Meanwhile we get a slightly different way for Cedric to screw Moose, but it still feels like something new has happened because this time Moose gets the best of Cedric.

[Burnside]

I just think you should keep your world champ out of crap like this. Jay Lethal should not be used to help get somebody like Moose over. He's the world champ. Do this match with like Michael Elgin if you must.

[187_Joeism]

I think it depends, in this case i´m ok, it´s a big match for Moose and can prove things and learn from Lethal, if this was a big show then i wouldn´t think that way. I think the B shows should be used to get the midcard guys over and give them big matches to see if they can swin or sink.

[Burnside]

What if this was the show in your town, though? What if you were thinking about buying a ticket to this show?

I think people buy tickets or order shows to see wrestler A beat wrestler B. The idea is you should be thinking, "Wow, I wonder which of these guys will win" or "Man, I hope Babyface A kicks Heel B's ass".

Not "I look forward to seeing this match end inconclusively when wrestler B loses in a bullshit manner to wrestler A when wrestler C interferes, thus forwarding the storyline! Shut up and take my money!" That's not how it works. Everybody is expecting a fuck finish to Moose vs Lethal. They are not EXCITED to see a fuck finish.

That's why the live crowd shit all over the Moose vs Jay Briscoe finish last month. They were interested to see which of those two guys would win in a fight. That's what wrestling is and what draws money. But Delirious wasn't prepared to do that. You shouldn't double down on that booking.

And if you book fuck finishes often enough, pretty soon the people who were excited or intrigued to see Briscoe vs Moose or Lethal vs Moose aren't so excited or intrigued anymore. Because they know we won't see if A can beat B. We're just waiting for the run-in and the bullshit. This booking has a LOT to do with what brought down WCW and why it was always impossible to care about TNA.

[monster mafia]

one more in this series..

[187_Joeism]

That match should be pretty good!

@Burnside: I understand your point, but you also has to be realistic. Crowd should never be excited to see an interference, but if the story calls for it then it´s the best option and it´s what Delirious or any booker should do.

[Marketh.]

Except a good story doesn't have the audience growning in anticipation of the next plot point.

[Thelone]

@Burnside: I understand your point, but you also has to be realistic. Crowd should never be excited to see an interference, but if the story calls for it then it´s the best option and it´s what Delirious or any booker should do.

What ? No !

Delirious is the guy who's booking himself into a corner here. Again, the whole point of pro wrestling is that you can tell the story you want and "booking yourself into a corner" should never happen. You wanna save a "real" Lethal vs. Moose matchup for later ? Fine, but just don't book the match at all then and find another way to build heat for your heel (Cedric) and empathy for the babyface.

[Marketh.]

I just don't see why I should sympathise with Moose. I still see it as comeuppance for betraying RD Evans.

Besides, Moose was a heel for like 5 minutes before being booked as a babyface again. It's pretty clear whatever they're doing with him is being made up as it goes along.

[187_Joeism]

I just don´t see how he booked himself into a corner when Moose can have a good match with Lethal and don´t get hurt for losing because Cedric cause it.

With Jay Briscoe vs Moose he did i agree with that.

[Mr. Orange]

I think the best decision is Moose losing clean but in a great match and then doing a post match angle with Cedric. Moose doesn't lose anything by losing to Lethal who has beaten everybody over the last year. Right now I think a lot of fans are skeptical on Moose and the most important thing here to get people behind him is to just go out there and put on a great singles match which he hasn't done yet.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I agree Mr. Orange. At this point it kills Lethal's credibility as champion if he doesn't pin Moose clean. Absolutely nothing wrong with Moose losing this way. Lethal is a veteran who also happens to hold not one, but both singles titles. Moose is a relative newcomer. Is the wrestling audience supposed to be convinced that Lethal, who had his full with Roderick Strong, can't beat Moose? It would be booking reminiscent of Russo at his worst if Lethal doesn't get a clean win.