ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

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BurningHammer
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:11 am

It's booking that probably 65% of ROH whatchers of the television programming aren't going to mind, personally I don't mind stuff like that, it's easy and sensible enough despite it's lack of creativity and keeps you reminded that Smith just isn't after Rowe there is more to the whole aspect of the issue's there. I imagine is Lance was it would have been a very different set of TV tapings involving these two teams.

What annoyes me more than anything is like last week when Rowe has his legs/knees worked on all match then still uses them for moves and especially as the finish, if you want to create drama there has got to be more than the sell of pain, make us realise that you just can't use them anymore and need to find something else, it would add more depth and intelligence to your charachter.

I did like Page jumping Kaz this week I felt that probably should have happened before the interference in the title match or completely instead of, more like this stuff needs to be done. Although going and trying to hang him or choke him out in the parking lot wasn't the best thing, I would just beat the guy up, leave the hanging for another time or just leave it alone.
Last edited by BurningHammer on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AlexROH
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by AlexROH » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:49 am

Very good episode this week. I really liked the opener between Hanson and Martinez. They are pushing Punishment to the moon. He has improved a lot. He's a better big man than Moose, but worse, IMO, than Donovan Dijak. On the other hand, I hope ROH star a new War Machine push. They are awesome and they should be, in 2-3 years, the new Briscoes. Two big guys that can work both singles and as a tag team.

Segments were fine too. I really liked that attack from Page, as Burning Hammer said, and the little promo from Cole. His match with Omega at NYC/Toronto could be awesome.

The Top Prospect match was great. Not a **** match or something like that, but it was, by far, the best match of the tournament. Both guys have a lot of potential and ROH should sign them.

The main event was pretty entertaining, better than I expected. Fast paced match with the little "story" of Silas vs Taven. Great work by both teams. Bully has adapted well and I think he's a really good midcard addition to the roster.

Overall, a fantastic hour of television by ROH. Good wrestling and good character/storyline work.

SweetDaddy
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by SweetDaddy » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:40 am

Bully a midcarder?

Have you seen the scrubs ROH books these days?

BurningHammer
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:54 am

I forgot to mention the top prospect, they had a good match and I would certainly like see more of both guys in the future. Get some guys like Andy Dalton etc as long we've the David Starrs and these guys and the under card for ROH looks very healthy, then it's just about building the middle card and maybe some upper card talents. Although Ospreay if wants could really be the guy.

famicommander
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by famicommander » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:39 pm

One thing that bugged me about the commentary

Kevin Kelly said the Briscoes and Bully Ray represent 30 tag team title reigns between them

Assuming they mean major promotions only

The Briscoes:
8X ROH World Tag Team Champions
1X IWGP Tag Team Champions
1X GHC Jr Heavyweight Tag Team Champions
2X NEVER Openweight Six Man Tag Team Champions

So that's 10 tag title reigns and 2 six man reigns for the Briscoes coming into the night. 9 if you don't want to count the GHC Jr belts.

Bully Ray
8X ECW World Tag Team Champion
2X IWGP World Tag Team Champion
2X TNA World Tag Team Champion
1X NWA-TNA World Tag Team Champion
8X WWE Tag Team Champion
1X WCW (WWE version) Tag Team Champion

So that's 22.

22 for the Dudleys and 10 for the Briscoes is 32, not counting the six man reigns. Or 31 if you don't count the GHC Jr belts.

Either way, they shortchanged them.

Big Red Machine
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:52 am

SweetDaddy wrote:Bully a midcarder?

Have you seen the scrubs ROH books these days?
Yes. One of them is a 45 year old tag team specialist named "Bully" who managed to con people into thinking that he has some value as a singles star by having a terrible run as a top guy in the worst national wrestling promotion in history.

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AlexROH
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by AlexROH » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:33 pm

Big Red Machine wrote:
SweetDaddy wrote:Bully a midcarder?

Have you seen the scrubs ROH books these days?
Yes. One of them is a 45 year old tag team specialist named "Bully" who managed to con people into thinking that he has some value as a singles star by having a terrible run as a top guy in the worst national wrestling promotion in history.
Wowowo, I'm calling Bully Ray a mid-carder NOW. In 2012-2013, his work as top heel was excellent. He was in bad storylines in TNA, but his work as a singles heel was top notch.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by famicommander » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:54 pm

If Bubba can work himself back into the shape he was during his TNA World Title reigns it would be fantastic.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:04 pm

Foreshadowing of the week was when Little Willy and Cheeseburger came out for their match and it was the first time I can recall the former didn't walk out with the cheeseburger mitten on his hand. Incidentally, after the match Little Willy walks off on Cheeseburger. The feud that is being thrown down our throats that no one wants to see.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:51 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:Foreshadowing of the week was when Little Willy and Cheeseburger came out for their match and it was the first time I can recall the former didn't walk out with the cheeseburger mitten on his hand. Incidentally, after the match Little Willy walks off on Cheeseburger. The feud that is being thrown down our throats that no one wants to see.
Like every Cheeseburger feud. Just wait six months until Ferrara is trying to saw Burger's arm off.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:13 pm

Big Red Machine wrote:
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:Foreshadowing of the week was when Little Willy and Cheeseburger came out for their match and it was the first time I can recall the former didn't walk out with the cheeseburger mitten on his hand. Incidentally, after the match Little Willy walks off on Cheeseburger. The feud that is being thrown down our throats that no one wants to see.
Like every Cheeseburger feud. Just wait six months until Ferrara is trying to saw Burger's arm off.
This made me laugh my ass off.

BurningHammer
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 am

The main event really made up for what was lacking as a TV show this week, I thought commentary really fell apart this week, which is probably down to the length of the tapings and feeling tired, but Kelly really tones Ian down and makes him fall into the traps he creates through his poor commentary. I do hope Cabanna can have a stronger presence on TV soon, as Ian and Cabanna really are the best ROH can do right now.

As for the main event I thought it delivered in many ways from story lines converging, remebering others and bringing them back, I thought everyone generally looked good and there was a nice flow of domination for both teams before it really hit the hot end.

I thought Rush really came out of this well and I think no matter the loss the TV behind time behind him previously and the PPV on this weekend really helped and this match really gave him a good show case of him as a babyface and interaction with the fans, I think if he hadn't of left he could have been made after this match and weekend in many ways.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:30 pm

BurningHammer wrote:The main event really made up for what was lacking as a TV show this week, I thought commentary really fell apart this week, which is probably down to the length of the tapings and feeling tired, but Kelly really tones Ian down and makes him fall into the traps he creates through his poor commentary. I do hope Cabanna can have a stronger presence on TV soon, as Ian and Cabanna really are the best ROH can do right now.
Totally agree with you about Kelly. Ian has proven to be quite adequate to good with Cabana, Young, or even Evans. Kelly is a black hole and sucks the life right out of the product. He goes off on these tangents nobody gives two fucks about and it forces Ian into a subservient role, even though he's supposed to be the lead guy. I don't know what NJPW sees in Kelly. I don't miss him one iota.

BurningHammer
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:53 pm

Yeah he certainly does, the way he leads just brings us to points and situations that we don't really need or are wrong.

I think with NJPW it's the fact that he brings experience, apprecation of the work, his voice is clear and direct for the most part, he comes across as a nice guy, and I think for what NJPW want as they expand in the US and further he fits the person they want to represent them on an international stage.

famicommander
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by famicommander » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:48 pm

Kevin Kelly has spent a lot of years on wrestling TV shows in the US, and he was already affiliated with them through ROH. It's not hard to figure out why NJPW uses him, accurate criticisms of his commentary notwithstanding.

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AlexROH
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by AlexROH » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:57 am

I'm maybe with the minority here, but I really like Kelly's work. He isn't my favourite, but I really like his job.

I loved the Corino/Kelly duo, and, being honest, I miss Corino more than KK.

Btw, I think Ian is doing a great job, he needs to improve a lot, but he's doing fine. I hope he finds a regular PBP commentator.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:59 am

Thankfully for the Baltimore tapings someone has spared our eardrums and Colt Cabana is back on commentary with Ian Riccaboni.

- TPT finale was okay. Woods won which is good. The aftermath with David Starr was awesome. I really hope he stays long term. Would not object to either John Skyler or Curt Stallion becoming roster members.

- Scrull vs. Kazarian just didn't mesh for about 2/3 of the match. I think when Kaz tried that DDT on the apron and they completely missed, it threw both guys off for awhile. They started clicking towards the end. Page interfering in the match didn't bother me because of the story bring told between him and Kaz. Loved seeing Sydal at the end and am really looking forward to a match between him and Scrull.

Decent week. Nothing offensive, but nothing mind blowing either.

Big Red Machine
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:56 am

Anyone else noticing some sort of screw-up with the episode airdates on the website? They seem to be moved forward by week from what everyone other source says.

Big Red Machine
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:11 pm

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:I hated the booking for Team ROH vs. Bullet Club. So Jay Lethal accidentally blasts Bobby Fish and they come to blows over it. So fucking what? Incidental contact between teammates happens all the time during the course of a tag team match. Jesus, it happens during 90% of The Young Bucks matches and they don't get pissy with each other. When The Addiction were heels it was used as a selling point for a hot tag. Nope. Here it makes the faces look stupid for the sake of a one off match the two had with each other coming up. Maybe I could understand it if a feud was being centered around the two, but for the convenience of a storyline that wouldn't go anywhere after The 15th Anniversary was just fucking stupid.

Having said that, knowing the outcome of the PPV and seeing how it was played out on TV, the Kaz turn on Daniels was way better than I thought it would be. The fact that Kaz didn't lay a hand on Daniels during this "turn" was actually smart storytelling. Certainly the endgame concluded at the PPV makes much more sense.

This brings me to my next point, in the main event, how can there be such massive gaps in logical storytelling? And don't try and sell me this bullshit that Lethal and Fish are competitors and emotions got the best of them. There was no build up, no foreshadowing, it just randomly happened. That's inexcusable. And what's worse, is Lethal comes across as a bitch of a teammate. When he recruited Naito and EVIL to assist him against Bullet Club, he wound up fighting with them too. It does nothing to help Lethal as a face, except that he's a selfish asshole.
Right. My feeling on the Lethal-Fish thing was that it was one of those situations where they wanted to do the match and then decided that some sort of angle was necessary, so they hastily manufactured one when, in reality, no angle was necessary. This is ROH. Why can't the office just book an exciting match for no reason other than that it will be an exciting wrestling match?
Interestingly enough, your question gets answered in Briscoe/White 2. A solid 3 1/2 star match that was given plenty of TV time and booked with care. Say what you will about Jay Briscoe's work rate, but if he has a good foundation to work with in terms of the match layout and a hungry opponent, he can call a compelling match. That was shown this week in a rematch that I necessarily wasn't frothing at the mouth for, but enjoyed a helluva lot more than I thought I would. This is the blueprint for how the majority of ROH matches should be booked. Straightforward, two guys who have a simple desire to beat the shit out of each other and win. Briscoe played subtle heel, irritated that the Young Lion had done what few have been able to do him over the past few years. Not get pinned. Briscoe was aggressive and angry, while White wasn't taking any of his shit and became more desperate and frustrated as the match went on. I liked the decision of Briscoe not winning with his finisher, more of his victory being decided as an opportunistic moment. A Jay Driller finish would have left a punctuation mark that a third match might have fans questioning the validity of White as an opponent. Instead, White lost but was not hurt by this match. I recommend this match this week.
I just finished watching this episode of TV. I liked the match more than you did (I had it at ****), but I didn't like the booking or Jay's character stuff at all. He came off like a total asshole from the very beginning for absolutely no reason. Why should he be so upset that Jay White challenged him to a rematch of a match they had that went to a draw (and Mark even said that Jay was upset about the draw, too)? He wasn't being a "subtle" heel here. That's what he would have been without turning down the handshake and the spitting and the not breaking holds in the rope (and counting along with the ref like an asshole while keeping the hold locked in!). Jay Briscoe was a full-on heel here for absolutely no reason when his character seems like the sort of guy who would be happy that someone wants to fight him and happy to be given the chance to defeat a foe he had previously been unable to defeat.
And what does Jay Briscoe get out of ending Jay White's streak? NOTHING. White doesn't even get much with this loss as he already went to a draw with Briscoe. And it's not like Jay couldn't take a loss here. This was in the middle of them pushing the Briscoes as a tag team (with three straight title shots despite got getting a single win as a team in between them).

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Thelone » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:20 pm

It's almost like Delirious fucking sucks at his job and can't use an undefeated streak angle in any kind of meaningful way. Remember when... Jay Briscoe ended Fish's streak in a random TV match for no reason? Or when Moose just lost with no fanfare whatsoever to Alexander and his billionth failed push?
http://thelone.be/ => My wrestling reviews (among other things), mais en français.

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