ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:10 am

Big Red Machine wrote:So am I supposed to believe that Kevin Sullivan spent months being pointlessly cryptic with Steve Corino and deliberately not answering Steve's questions because he needed Corino's help to prevent the ghost of Dusty Rhodes from haunting ROH?
Yes. Don't worry that whole match was a mess. It was such a leap of faith to try and make any sense of that it failed miserably. Nigel had mailed it in calling that match. He was so disinterested.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:12 am

I really appreciated the story told in Briscoe/Lethal 3. Jay hitting that JayDriller early in the match was really convincing in how he was able to win. This is what satisfies me as a wrestling fan. Logical storytelling.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by AlexROH » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:47 am

Yeah, I loved the match. Maybe not an awesome one but such a great TV main event. They told a different story instead of doing the same thing. Great ***1/2 match.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:33 am

AlexROH wrote:Yeah, I loved the match. Maybe not an awesome one but such a great TV main event. They told a different story instead of doing the same thing. Great ***1/2 match.
This is actually a match that I thought totally suffered from being on TV because we went from Briscoe totally in control after working the head the whole time into a commercial break and when we came back they were equal and we never saw or were told how Lethal equalized things. It felt like we came back in the middle of a different match.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:35 am

My thoughts on last weekend's show:

OPENING VIDEO- we got clips from the ROH World Title match at the Tokyo Dome interspersed with Cole cutting a promo. Unfortunately in this promo, Cole referred to that match as taking place “on the biggest stage in either of our careers,” which completely buries ROH. Look… I’m not trying to argue that was what Cole said wasn’t true. All I’m saying is that just because it’s true doesn’t mean that you should say it. Saying this made ROH look like a minor league compared to New Japan. We already have the problem of the New Japan top guys almost always going over the ROH guys. This doesn’t help.

WILL FERRARA & CHEESEBURGER vs. COAST TO COAST vs. THE TEMPURA BOYZ- 4.5/10
Only FerraraBurgers got their entrance shown, but the moment Bobby Cruise said that this was a three-way, I immediately knew who they would be facing out of a simple lack of faith in Delirious’ creativity. We saw this match two months ago on the show in Ft. Lauderdale and didn’t matter whatsoever, so why should I think it will mean anything now. It feels like none of these teams will go anywhere in ROH simply because it feels like no one is given the chance for any upward mobility.
Who is the last guy to come into the company and wind up above the level where he was at? There is Dalton Castle but he’s over because of his gimmick, not because of the booking, and the booking often feels like it is giving him wins because he is a babyface rather than because they are really trying to push him. Silas has been elevated a bit, except they’re never willing to give him a real win over a big name- even in a spot when they’re trying to build him for a title shot they still had him lose to Jay Lethal in Lockport even thought Jay was going to beat the ROH World Champion later that night in a match where the whole story was that Jay was at a disadvantage because he had wrestled for so long already.
ACH, Moose, Dijak, and Sydal, have all basically been at the same level they were brought in at. Page’s rise only feels like it happened because New Japan wanted it, and even then ROH has been booking him like sh*t. Jay White has been given a lot of wins but they haven’t done anything to make him feel like more than a typical micarder.
The point is that when I see guys like Coast To Coast or Will Ferrara, I should be wondering if they are going to be stars in a few years, but because of the way the company has been booked, instead I just get annoyed that they’re wasting TV time with filler matches.
And do you want to know what doesn’t help that at all? When Kevin Kelly spends the whole time talking about the f*cking Young Bucks. He says that many teams are “hot on their trail,” especially the Hardys. Then the Young Bucks came out, and after a commercial break, they were on commentary. After that quick establishing shot of them sitting there at the announcers’ table with Kevin Kelly, we cut back to the match for a few seconds, then cut back to commentary for TEN WHOLE SECONDS of the Young Bucks and Kevin Kelly just sitting there and talking. Meanwhile THERE’S A F*CKING WRESTLING MATCH GOING ON IN THE RING!
In his discussion with the Young Bucks, Kevin uses THE EXACT SAME VERBIAGE when talking about how teams are “hot on their trail.” Dude. You’re a professional television announcer. CHANGE IT UP. The Bucks put this match over a being “great” in a way that you know that they’re really not, and they suggest that whoever wins this match between three jobber teams should become the #1 contenders. Kevin Kelly replies to this by saying, “Looks like we have a deal.”
A few things here:
1. Doesn’t this title match to be approved by ROH management?
2. The Bucks are clearly just trying to set themselves up with unworthy challenger whom they can easily defeat. This is patently obvious to everyone other than Kevin Kelly. He is the f*cking babyface announcer, and here is getting duped by the most obvious heel ploy there is.
Anyway, now that this is apparently a #1 contendership match, I’m sure you won’t be shocked to hear that Kevin Kelly went right back to ignoring it so he could talk about the Hardys vs. The Bucks.

These guys did a lot of stuff in the short time they got. The Tempura Boyz won to earn the title shot. Look… if you’re going to do this stupid gimmick with a pointless title defense against jobbers, you might as well do it with the jobber people actually give a sh*t about (i.e. Cheeseburger).

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- bad
The Bucks come out to the ring to give the Tempura Boyz the news. They have a second set of titles with them that they did not identify but specified would not be on the line. The Tempura Boyz celebrate but get Superkicked. The way this was done made it feel like they turned around just so they could turn back around and get superkicked. On commentary, Kevin Kelly responded to this by saying “why am I not surprised” in a mildly disapproving tone. You know… because that’s definitely how a babyface announcer should react when heels cheapshot two guys who just got done wrestling a match.

THE YOUNG BUCKS BRING OUT ADAM COLE TO CUT A PROMO- okay.
To be honest, this makes me even more annoyed about this whole thing. There is a well-established tradition in ROH that the first show with a new ROH World Champion starts off with that champion being interviewed. If you want Cole and the Bucks to come out, just start the show that way. Don’t waste time with a pointless match that will lead to an even more pointless title match. They just wasted OVER TEN MINUTES OF A ONE-HOUR SHOW. If you want to do Bucks vs. Tempura Boyz then just book it as a non-title match or an open challenge or something.
Cole’s promo was pretty good. He ran down the people in title contention right now, which he listed as Castle (who pinned him during Champions vs. All-Stars), Fish (who won SOTF), Lethal, and Briscoe (who face off in tonight’s Decade of Excellence Tournament Semi-final) and said he could beat them all. Kevin Kelly was quick to point out that Cole neglected to mention the man the winner of the Briscoe-Lethal match will face in tournament finals: Christopher Daniels. That fees like it is really telegraphing the finish of the tournament, but in this case I’m almost relieved because Daniels is by far the right choice to get this title shot.

JUICE ROBINSON VIDEO PACKAGE- this short clip of him hitting some moves in Japan was more work than they have put into building up Lio Rush, Jonathan Gresham, and Donovan Dijak combined.

ROH TV TITLE MATCH: Marty Scurll(c) vs. Juice Robinson- 6.5/10
Alex Shelley is on commentary.
Aren’t ROH and New Japan supposed to be working together? Because a guy headed to a title shot in New Japan doing a job in ROH doesn’t seem to benefit New Japan very much. And, to be honest, this didn’t even benefit ROH, either. It was a random title match with no hype between one star and one nobody where everyone knew the outcome the moment the match was announced.
The match was fine, but I thought Marty should have been more dominant (especially considering the promo he was about to cut). Also, what the hell was the point of that spot where babyface Juice Robinson tried to use the ropes for illegal leverage?

MARTY SCURLL PROMO- GREAT!
He says that he has been disappointed with the level of competition here in ROH. Considering that his opponents have gotten in at least as much offense as he has (if not more), I’ll have to disagree. I know he’s a heel, but for something like this I’d rather not compromise his integrity quite yet- especially if he is a guy you want to make into a star. He definitely should have been more dominant here.
Anyway, Marty makes an open challenge. The fans in Atlanta are all chanting for Cody… who is a heel. Instead, they got Chris Sabin plus all of MCMG’s young protégés, whose ranks have now expanded to also include Jonathan Gresham. This is WAY too many people. They really should have kept it to just Jay White (which would have made twice as much sense because he had already been teaming with them against The Addiction and Kamaitachi and helping their feud against the Bucks. Speaking of which, with all of the house shows ROH ran, how did we not get a three-way trios match out of this?)

We get a run-down of the cards for next weekend’s shows in Texas. On the one hand I like this, as it will hopefully help sell more tickets in Texas. On the other hand, it annoys me that this wasn’t done sooner, to sell more tickets, and that something similar wasn’t done for the shows the weekend after that. Also, I got quite annoyed at the Bucks vs. Briscoes title match, which is apparently now a 2-out-of-3 Falls Gimmick match. So let me get this straight: The Bucks beat the Brsicoes cleanly at Final Battle to retain their titles. Since then, the Briscoes have won a grand total of ZERO matches as a team (and I don’t think Mark has even won a singles match, either), and yet for some reason they are now being given another title shot but with a bunch of stips? COME ON! You might as well just call the show “ROH Impact.”

KEVIN KELLY INTERIEWS THE ENTIRE MCMG TEAM- didn’t like it.
There are too many guys here. Jay White can barely get his face on camera, and Gresham is constantly being blocked by Kevin Kelly and Sabin. Only Sabin got to talk, which makes the young guys all look like they’re just MCMG’s lackeys. He also kept calling Scurll “Martin Skull.” I guess he was trying to be funny but it came off really stupid.
Sabin said that they want to fight each other next week for a title shot. He used the “iron sharpens iron” line that WWE was putting in every video package last month, which makes ROH look second-rate.

LETHAL & BRISCOE SPLICED PROMO- terrible. Literally all they both said was “My return to the world championship. The Decade of Excellence continues tonight.” Not only was it annoying to hear one guy say a few words and then the other guy repeat those few words back and forth, but giving them the exact same verbiage made the whole thing look completely staged. This wasn’t two guys telling us why they wanted to win a wrestling match; it was two guys reading from the script the company gave them. This was made even worse by the fact that they really didn’t say anything. Plus, we get much better promos from each guy building to this match both last week and in inset promos as they came down to the ring. It was essentially a waste of time that could have been used to show us more of the match.

DECADE OF EXCELLENCE TOURNAMENT SEMI-FINAL MATCH: Jay Lethal vs. Jay Briscoe- 6/10
Kazarian was on commentary for this match. Right before we went to a commercial break, Adam Cole came out to watch. When we came back from the commercial, Cole was also doing commentary. You know… the same exact thing that happened in the opener.
Briscoe went to shout at Cole at one point. Where couldn’t hear what he said too clearly, but Kazarian was nice enough to translate for us, saying “I believe he called you a ‘little bitch.” Now, if you’ve been forced to listen to the atrocious commentary that Kevin Kelly and Steve Corino have been providing ROH at any point in the past few years, you’ve doubtlessly heard them scream and yell and make a huge deal out of wrestlers supposedly getting fined for using foul language, even on PPV or house shows where there are no FCC restrictions. As stupid as this is because it never leads to anything and makes the company look lame, it was even more frustrating because in 99% of cases, we listen at home could never in hear the word in question. Well this time Frankie Kazarian said “bitch” loudly and clearly INTO THE MICROPHONE ON BROADCAST TELEVISION… AND KEVIN KELLY DIDN’T SAY A F*CKING THING! Just when I thought there was no possible way for ROH commentary to annoy me any more than it already does, they found a way.
The whole point of Cole coming out on commentary was so he could bicker with Kaz and say Daniels was a non-factor, which, again, basically telegraphs the outcome of the tournament… which makes the outcome of this semi-final match feel completely meaningless.
You know what else makes this match not feel important? When Kevin Kelly stops paying attention to the match in order to ask Adam Cole his “thoughts on the fans in both San Antonio and Dallas.” WHAT KIND OF STUPID F*CKING QUESTION IS THIS?! This is Kevin Kelly, the world’s least cool wrestling announcer, who is constantly admonishing wrestlers for any little insult they throw, and who usually responds to someone insulting the fans with an outraged “you can’t say that about our fans! They pay their hard-earned money to see Ring of Honor live, and without them we wouldn’t be here!” or some equally clichéd variant thereof… asked the top heel in the company “what do you think about the fans?” WHAT DID HE THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?!
As for the match itself… the first two thirds or so were all Briscoe. They bonked heads in the beginning and Briscoe came out the better for it, then he spent the rest of the time working over Lethal’s head, including an early Jay-Driller. When we went to our second commercial break, Briscoe had Lethal securely locked in a headlock. When we got back from commercial, everything was equal again and no mention was made of it. It was just so weird not having anyone even mention this, never mind tell or show us what happened to turn things around. This is the type of problem that would be solved by inserting backstage promos or video packages into the show and then showing more of each match to stretch each taping out into an extra episode. Or, you know, DON’T WASTE TIME WITH POINTLESS MATCHES IN THE BEGINNING!


A frustrating show from ROH. It kind of just hit me today, but this is now the third or fourth or possibly even fifth episode of new TV since Final Battle… and with the exception of the Decade of Excellence Tournament it doesn’t feel like there is ANYTHING going on in this company. They’re not building up challengers for the Bucks, the New Kingdom and Scurll are basically defending their belts against random people who haven’t done anything to earn these shows (meanwhile there is no talk of Fish getting his rematch, or Ospreay, or of Mark Briscoe getting a title shot for pinning Fish at Champions vs. All-Stars), and all of the talk of the world title shots due to Fish and Castle feels like it’s coming from Cole. This is not how you book a wrestling company.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by dhads7161 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:07 pm

Just marked out over Sal Rinauro's appearance on TV this week. Also saw P. Dogg during that match...shame it was as a referee.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Rich of Honor » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:05 am

Not sure if anyone noticed this, but the entire PBK angle with The Briscoes was cut from television this week. The match simply ended. Seems to give credence to the fact that ROH officials did not know that Lee was signing with EVOLVE when he tweeted on 1/15.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:41 pm

dhads7161 wrote:Just marked out over Sal Rinauro's appearance on TV this week. Also saw P. Dogg during that match...shame it was as a referee.
I think this was the one time Big Red Machine could tolerate a P. Dogg appearance.

Forget Sal Rinauro. Bring back Tony Mamaluke!

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:43 pm

I am behind on my ROH viewing, but after watching Marty Scrull vs. Donovan Dijak, I am thoroughly convinced that Marty is the early ROH MVP this year. He never ceases to engage me with his storytelling in a match. He is the highlight of ROH viewing right now.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:02 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
dhads7161 wrote:Just marked out over Sal Rinauro's appearance on TV this week. Also saw P. Dogg during that match...shame it was as a referee.
I think this was the one time Big Red Machine could tolerate a P. Dogg appearance.
Because he wasn't P-Dawg. He was Mike Posey, generic dude. I don't hate the man, I hate the gimmick (or, more specifically, his execution of it).
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Forget Sal Rinauro. Bring back Tony Mamaluke!
THIS!

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:51 am

I hated the booking for Team ROH vs. Bullet Club. So Jay Lethal accidentally blasts Bobby Fish and they come to blows over it. So fucking what? Incidental contact between teammates happens all the time during the course of a tag team match. Jesus, it happens during 90% of The Young Bucks matches and they don't get pissy with each other. When The Addiction were heels it was used as a selling point for a hot tag. Nope. Here it makes the faces look stupid for the sake of a one off match the two had with each other coming up. Maybe I could understand it if a feud was being centered around the two, but for the convenience of a storyline that wouldn't go anywhere after The 15th Anniversary was just fucking stupid.

Having said that, knowing the outcome of the PPV and seeing how it was played out on TV, the Kaz turn on Daniels was way better than I thought it would be. The fact that Kaz didn't lay a hand on Daniels during this "turn" was actually smart storytelling. Certainly the endgame concluded at the PPV makes much more sense.

This brings me to my next point, in the main event, how can there be such massive gaps in logical storytelling? And don't try and sell me this bullshit that Lethal and Fish are competitors and emotions got the best of them. There was no build up, no foreshadowing, it just randomly happened. That's inexcusable. And what's worse, is Lethal comes across as a bitch of a teammate. When he recruited Naito and EVIL to assist him against Bullet Club, he wound up fighting with them too. It does nothing to help Lethal as a face, except that he's a selfish asshole.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by DXvsNWO1994 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:05 pm

I'm sure this was mentioned already in this thread, but Marty Scurll vs. Donovan Dijak from a few weeks ago was freaking awesome!! I went ****1/2 on it, and it might be my ROH MOTY right now. Freaking loved it.
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:I hated the booking for Team ROH vs. Bullet Club. So Jay Lethal accidentally blasts Bobby Fish and they come to blows over it. So fucking what? Incidental contact between teammates happens all the time during the course of a tag team match. Jesus, it happens during 90% of The Young Bucks matches and they don't get pissy with each other. When The Addiction were heels it was used as a selling point for a hot tag. Nope. Here it makes the faces look stupid for the sake of a one off match the two had with each other coming up. Maybe I could understand it if a feud was being centered around the two, but for the convenience of a storyline that wouldn't go anywhere after The 15th Anniversary was just fucking stupid.
I thought that was weird as well. Had they not done that, I probably would've gone **** on that Eight-Man Tag, but the breakdown between Fish & Lethal felt forced.
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:37 pm

DXvsNWO1994 wrote:I'm sure this was mentioned already in this thread, but Marty Scurll vs. Donovan Dijak from a few weeks ago was freaking awesome!! I went ****1/2 on it, and it might be my ROH MOTY right now. Freaking loved it.
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:I hated the booking for Team ROH vs. Bullet Club. So Jay Lethal accidentally blasts Bobby Fish and they come to blows over it. So fucking what? Incidental contact between teammates happens all the time during the course of a tag team match. Jesus, it happens during 90% of The Young Bucks matches and they don't get pissy with each other. When The Addiction were heels it was used as a selling point for a hot tag. Nope. Here it makes the faces look stupid for the sake of a one off match the two had with each other coming up. Maybe I could understand it if a feud was being centered around the two, but for the convenience of a storyline that wouldn't go anywhere after The 15th Anniversary was just fucking stupid.
I thought that was weird as well. Had they not done that, I probably would've gone **** on that Eight-Man Tag, but the breakdown between Fish & Lethal felt forced.
Totally with you on Scrull vs. Dijak. Fucking outstanding. Magnificent story told and arguably Dijak's best match in ROH.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:26 pm

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:I hated the booking for Team ROH vs. Bullet Club. So Jay Lethal accidentally blasts Bobby Fish and they come to blows over it. So fucking what? Incidental contact between teammates happens all the time during the course of a tag team match. Jesus, it happens during 90% of The Young Bucks matches and they don't get pissy with each other. When The Addiction were heels it was used as a selling point for a hot tag. Nope. Here it makes the faces look stupid for the sake of a one off match the two had with each other coming up. Maybe I could understand it if a feud was being centered around the two, but for the convenience of a storyline that wouldn't go anywhere after The 15th Anniversary was just fucking stupid.

Having said that, knowing the outcome of the PPV and seeing how it was played out on TV, the Kaz turn on Daniels was way better than I thought it would be. The fact that Kaz didn't lay a hand on Daniels during this "turn" was actually smart storytelling. Certainly the endgame concluded at the PPV makes much more sense.

This brings me to my next point, in the main event, how can there be such massive gaps in logical storytelling? And don't try and sell me this bullshit that Lethal and Fish are competitors and emotions got the best of them. There was no build up, no foreshadowing, it just randomly happened. That's inexcusable. And what's worse, is Lethal comes across as a bitch of a teammate. When he recruited Naito and EVIL to assist him against Bullet Club, he wound up fighting with them too. It does nothing to help Lethal as a face, except that he's a selfish asshole.
Right. My feeling on the Lethal-Fish thing was that it was one of those situations where they wanted to do the match and then decided that some sort of angle was necessary, so they hastily manufactured one when, in reality, no angle was necessary. This is ROH. Why can't the office just book an exciting match for no reason other than that it will be an exciting wrestling match?

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:51 am

Big Red Machine wrote:
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:I hated the booking for Team ROH vs. Bullet Club. So Jay Lethal accidentally blasts Bobby Fish and they come to blows over it. So fucking what? Incidental contact between teammates happens all the time during the course of a tag team match. Jesus, it happens during 90% of The Young Bucks matches and they don't get pissy with each other. When The Addiction were heels it was used as a selling point for a hot tag. Nope. Here it makes the faces look stupid for the sake of a one off match the two had with each other coming up. Maybe I could understand it if a feud was being centered around the two, but for the convenience of a storyline that wouldn't go anywhere after The 15th Anniversary was just fucking stupid.

Having said that, knowing the outcome of the PPV and seeing how it was played out on TV, the Kaz turn on Daniels was way better than I thought it would be. The fact that Kaz didn't lay a hand on Daniels during this "turn" was actually smart storytelling. Certainly the endgame concluded at the PPV makes much more sense.

This brings me to my next point, in the main event, how can there be such massive gaps in logical storytelling? And don't try and sell me this bullshit that Lethal and Fish are competitors and emotions got the best of them. There was no build up, no foreshadowing, it just randomly happened. That's inexcusable. And what's worse, is Lethal comes across as a bitch of a teammate. When he recruited Naito and EVIL to assist him against Bullet Club, he wound up fighting with them too. It does nothing to help Lethal as a face, except that he's a selfish asshole.
Right. My feeling on the Lethal-Fish thing was that it was one of those situations where they wanted to do the match and then decided that some sort of angle was necessary, so they hastily manufactured one when, in reality, no angle was necessary. This is ROH. Why can't the office just book an exciting match for no reason other than that it will be an exciting wrestling match?
Interestingly enough, your question gets answered in Briscoe/White 2. A solid 3 1/2 star match that was given plenty of TV time and booked with care. Say what you will about Jay Briscoe's work rate, but if he has a good foundation to work with in terms of the match layout and a hungry opponent, he can call a compelling match. That was shown this week in a rematch that I necessarily wasn't frothing at the mouth for, but enjoyed a helluva lot more than I thought I would. This is the blueprint for how the majority of ROH matches should be booked. Straightforward, two guys who have a simple desire to beat the shit out of each other and win. Briscoe played subtle heel, irritated that the Young Lion had done what few have been able to do him over the past few years. Not get pinned. Briscoe was aggressive and angry, while White wasn't taking any of his shit and became more desperate and frustrated as the match went on. I liked the decision of Briscoe not winning with his finisher, more of his victory being decided as an opportunistic moment. A Jay Driller finish would have left a punctuation mark that a third match might have fans questioning the validity of White as an opponent. Instead, White lost but was not hurt by this match. I recommend this match this week.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by AlexROH » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:55 am

Grest stuff by ROH this week. An episode full of wrestling! The opening segment with Daniels and Castle was fine, not the best first segment for your new world champion but it was what it was. The last 38-40 minutes were great, with Briscoes vs Hardys (I would go ***1/4 - ***1/2 for that one) and SuperKliq vs Addiction & Castle.

I liked the little promos too. That Marty Scurll vs Kenny King match sounds interesting to me, Kenny is such a great worker. Not an awesome wrestler, but he works really well in mid card matches.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:20 pm

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:I hated the booking for Team ROH vs. Bullet Club. So Jay Lethal accidentally blasts Bobby Fish and they come to blows over it. So fucking what? Incidental contact between teammates happens all the time during the course of a tag team match. Jesus, it happens during 90% of The Young Bucks matches and they don't get pissy with each other. When The Addiction were heels it was used as a selling point for a hot tag. Nope. Here it makes the faces look stupid for the sake of a one off match the two had with each other coming up. Maybe I could understand it if a feud was being centered around the two, but for the convenience of a storyline that wouldn't go anywhere after The 15th Anniversary was just fucking stupid.

Having said that, knowing the outcome of the PPV and seeing how it was played out on TV, the Kaz turn on Daniels was way better than I thought it would be. The fact that Kaz didn't lay a hand on Daniels during this "turn" was actually smart storytelling. Certainly the endgame concluded at the PPV makes much more sense.

This brings me to my next point, in the main event, how can there be such massive gaps in logical storytelling? And don't try and sell me this bullshit that Lethal and Fish are competitors and emotions got the best of them. There was no build up, no foreshadowing, it just randomly happened. That's inexcusable. And what's worse, is Lethal comes across as a bitch of a teammate. When he recruited Naito and EVIL to assist him against Bullet Club, he wound up fighting with them too. It does nothing to help Lethal as a face, except that he's a selfish asshole.
Right. My feeling on the Lethal-Fish thing was that it was one of those situations where they wanted to do the match and then decided that some sort of angle was necessary, so they hastily manufactured one when, in reality, no angle was necessary. This is ROH. Why can't the office just book an exciting match for no reason other than that it will be an exciting wrestling match?
Interestingly enough, your question gets answered in Briscoe/White 2. A solid 3 1/2 star match that was given plenty of TV time and booked with care. Say what you will about Jay Briscoe's work rate, but if he has a good foundation to work with in terms of the match layout and a hungry opponent, he can call a compelling match. That was shown this week in a rematch that I necessarily wasn't frothing at the mouth for, but enjoyed a helluva lot more than I thought I would. This is the blueprint for how the majority of ROH matches should be booked. Straightforward, two guys who have a simple desire to beat the shit out of each other and win. Briscoe played subtle heel, irritated that the Young Lion had done what few have been able to do him over the past few years. Not get pinned. Briscoe was aggressive and angry, while White wasn't taking any of his shit and became more desperate and frustrated as the match went on. I liked the decision of Briscoe not winning with his finisher, more of his victory being decided as an opportunistic moment. A Jay Driller finish would have left a punctuation mark that a third match might have fans questioning the validity of White as an opponent. Instead, White lost but was not hurt by this match. I recommend this match this week.
The last episode I've seen is 3/4. How much longer do I have until I get to see White vs. Briscoe?

Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:50 pm

I believe you have 2 episodes to go still.

Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:14 pm

AlexROH wrote:Grest stuff by ROH this week. An episode full of wrestling! The opening segment with Daniels and Castle was fine, not the best first segment for your new world champion but it was what it was. The last 38-40 minutes were great, with Briscoes vs Hardys (I would go ***1/4 - ***1/2 for that one) and SuperKliq vs Addiction & Castle.

I liked the little promos too. That Marty Scurll vs Kenny King match sounds interesting to me, Kenny is such a great worker. Not an awesome wrestler, but he works really well in mid card matches.
For the most part I agree with you. I thought the opening segment was bad and went too long though. The rest of the show was really good though.

The Briscoes vs. The Hardys was right in the star rating range you gave it. I am happy that they were given plenty of time for the match, which was smart. The payoff was worth it. Although Paul Turner making the 3 count with Matt Hardy in the ring still slightly irritated the wrestling purist in me.

I am totally with you on Scrull vs. King. I think this match is going to be a lot better than most people think. If Scrull doesn't re-sign, King just might be the new TV champ which I am fine with.

Main event was entertaining. Good week for ROH TV and I recommend it.

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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:27 pm

Could have done without the presence of Davey Boy Smith Jr. in the closing moments of Hanson vs. Punishment Martinez, which in itself was a fairly good match. Yeah, I get it. War Machine and Smith have issues, but couldn't we have just had a clean finish in the match? The average ROH show has 3 matches and at least one of them has some kind of unnecessary bullshit like in this match. So, we can expect during an average hour of television viewing to expect at least 33% of the matches to have some dumb shit like this.

While we are on the topic of stupid booking decisions, The Rebellion match a few weeks back, when Lio Rush temporarily joined them only to fuck them over, is still leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Are we to believe that Rush is either: A) Psychic or B) Constantly running around with a spare set of pseudo-Rebellion gear in addition to his own. Rhett Titus gets injured and, suddenly, Rush springs to the ring magically decked out in Rebellion gear. Did he have a psychic vision of Titus having an injury? Or did he just carry that shit around knowing that the guy he had the least amount of beef with in The Rebellion would get injured eventually and he could take his spot? Would this have worked as well if King or Coleman got injured instead? Isn't this kind of a heel move by Rush?

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