Weekly ROH TV Thread (on Sinclair Networks)

This is the place to discuss all the latest ROH news, announcements and events!
SweetDaddy
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by SweetDaddy »

If you take away NJPW you cripple ROH horribly.
Big Red Machine
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

BurningHammer wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:46 am I still think the best option is to just tape no TV during the tour.
I definitely agree with this.
famicommander
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by famicommander »

I think NJPW probably wants their guys on TV as much as possible. The AXS TV show has very limited availability (they said it was getting 200,000 viewers per week when they renewed it at AXS) and NJPW World has less than 10,000 subscribers outside of Japan.

So pretty much the only exposure their stars are getting in the US are ROH TV and internet piracy of various forms.

ROH was reaching a minimum average of 350,000 homes per week years ago on Sinclair affiliates alone (Obsever May 2015). That figure doesn't include multiple viewers in the same home or DVR, doesn't include all the new outlets (new Sinclair stations, Comet, comettv.com live stream, Fite TV, Fight Network, Sports1, that new Indian channel) nor rohwrestling.com viewers.

So we don't know exactly how many people per week watch ROH TV, but we know it's probably a hell of a lot more than NJPW on AXS.

Certainly with them trying to get a permanent foothold in the US they'd want as much exposure here as possible, while looking at all the people watching worldwide as a bonus.
BurningHammer
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Certainly NJPW have used the relationship with ROH to develop the fan base within the US and the TV will have helped with that but now that NJPW has Axxes and now seemingly a strong base in the US I would hope that the need for NJPW to use ROH as a vehicle is some sorts is gone.

For everything that has helped ROH with this relationship it's also hindered it in others, every time we reach this part of the year ROH has to take a step back from it's story or how it's TV flows, you also have the stupid political situation with booking and people coming over etc.

It's interesting to note that just recently ROH sold out their Chicago event where last year they struggled to break 300 I think and had to lie about how many they drew. This year the house was great and that was without any NJPW talent I believe, so to say ROH would without NJPW just doesn't sit right to me.
Big Red Machine
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

famicommander wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:54 pm I think NJPW probably wants their guys on TV as much as possible. The AXS TV show has very limited availability (they said it was getting 200,000 viewers per week when they renewed it at AXS) and NJPW World has less than 10,000 subscribers outside of Japan.

So pretty much the only exposure their stars are getting in the US are ROH TV and internet piracy of various forms.

ROH was reaching a minimum average of 350,000 homes per week years ago on Sinclair affiliates alone (Obsever May 2015). That figure doesn't include multiple viewers in the same home or DVR, doesn't include all the new outlets (new Sinclair stations, Comet, comettv.com live stream, Fite TV, Fight Network, Sports1, that new Indian channel) nor rohwrestling.com viewers.

So we don't know exactly how many people per week watch ROH TV, but we know it's probably a hell of a lot more than NJPW on AXS.

Certainly with them trying to get a permanent foothold in the US they'd want as much exposure here as possible, while looking at all the people watching worldwide as a bonus.
Right, but ROH needs to find a way to book them where it's not just running most of the build to the next PPV by wasting time with pointless matches involving New Japan guys.
Big Red Machine
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

BurningHammer wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:22 pm Certainly NJPW have used the relationship with ROH to develop the fan base within the US and the TV will have helped with that but now that NJPW has Axxes and now seemingly a strong base in the US I would hope that the need for NJPW to use ROH as a vehicle is some sorts is gone.

For everything that has helped ROH with this relationship it's also hindered it in others, every time we reach this part of the year ROH has to take a step back from it's story or how it's TV flows, you also have the stupid political situation with booking and people coming over etc.

It's interesting to note that just recently ROH sold out their Chicago event where last year they struggled to break 300 I think and had to lie about how many they drew. This year the house was great and that was without any NJPW talent I believe, so to say ROH would without NJPW just doesn't sit right to me.
300? I hadn't heard that. The number I saw reported was about 700. 300 in Chicago should have set off HUGE alarm bells. The show in question would be GBH, right? Which would have had no one from New Japan but one or two CMLL guys, and would have been the first show in Chicago after the non-finish PPV main event.

As for the overall relationship between the two- as terrible as it is to say, the more I think about it, the less the relationship seems like a symbiosis as opposed to a sort of mutual parasitism. Each has been sucking what they need out of the other, but the end goal doesn't feel like something mutually beneficial so much as it does a competition of who can use the other to their own ends while incurring less damage from being forced to deal with the things the other forces on them. In this case New Japan is definitely the strong, although they have admittedly gotten lucky, as any number of ROH acts that came over to them- or, in some cases, were forced on them- could well have bombed but didn't (Elgin worked out, Lethal hasn't).
BurningHammer
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Big Red Machine wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:33 pm
BurningHammer wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:22 pm Certainly NJPW have used the relationship with ROH to develop the fan base within the US and the TV will have helped with that but now that NJPW has Axxes and now seemingly a strong base in the US I would hope that the need for NJPW to use ROH as a vehicle is some sorts is gone.

For everything that has helped ROH with this relationship it's also hindered it in others, every time we reach this part of the year ROH has to take a step back from it's story or how it's TV flows, you also have the stupid political situation with booking and people coming over etc.

It's interesting to note that just recently ROH sold out their Chicago event where last year they struggled to break 300 I think and had to lie about how many they drew. This year the house was great and that was without any NJPW talent I believe, so to say ROH would without NJPW just doesn't sit right to me.
300? I hadn't heard that. The number I saw reported was about 700. 300 in Chicago should have set off HUGE alarm bells. The show in question would be GBH, right? Which would have had no one from New Japan but one or two CMLL guys, and would have been the first show in Chicago after the non-finish PPV main event.

As for the overall relationship between the two- as terrible as it is to say, the more I think about it, the less the relationship seems like a symbiosis as opposed to a sort of mutual parasitism. Each has been sucking what they need out of the other, but the end goal doesn't feel like something mutually beneficial so much as it does a competition of who can use the other to their own ends while incurring less damage from being forced to deal with the things the other forces on them. In this case New Japan is definitely the strong, although they have admittedly gotten lucky, as any number of ROH acts that came over to them- or, in some cases, were forced on them- could well have bombed but didn't (Elgin worked out, Lethal hasn't).
The number may well have been higher but it certainly wasn't any way near as high as was officially reported and i belive it was during the run where ROH drew a few bad crowd's in a row, I think in texas and a couple of other places also. There had twitter talk that Delirious had really burnt the relationship between the fans in Chicago and ROH, but obviously it has rebounded this year and hopefully it will be back to a good base for ROH to go back to.

I certainly agree that's how the relationship comes across to me also, there are a couple of things that I hope will actually help ROH become a stronger presence within NJPW which it obviously really struggled to do anyway. One it will be interesting to see how the united states champion tournament goes and how the ROH talent does there, it could actually be that the third singles title I have wanted for a while in ROH ends up being that championship. The second part is If Cody does win the title this weekend it will be very interesting considering that will be the first time an ROH champion has main evented an NJPW event and one that has gone one on one against their champ. It's wierd in a sense that Cody could actually bring it all together and give some legitimecy to the pairing of both companies.
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

On the latest episode, I noticed how much better Ian and Colt are than Kelly/Corino ever were.

Pretty good episode. The wrestling matches were overall pretty entertaining.

Gresham/Gordon wasn't too bad. Gordon is still pretty fucking green. Every time I watch Gresham I wonder about him and I would have liked to see him in ROH 2004-2005 era. He is unappreciated in today's product.

Young/Fish was really fucking good. It got a good amount of TV time. Nice match and perfect finish with Young winning clean. Bobby Fish is a true professional and I wish him nothing but the best. Initially I was pissed about Young losing to Lethal at BITW, I don't think its going to hurt him at all after this match is seen. (Curious note: Riccaboni no names the long time tag team partner of Bobby Fish.) As a matter of fact, I think Silas Young is your next TV champ.

White/Martinez was rough in a few spots but overall good effort by both guys. White is quite over with the Chicago crowd too. Martinez had some pretty good facial spots towards the end while trying to put away White. White wins and Martinez destroys him afterwards to keep this fairly well booked feud going.

My only bitch is Josh Woods. The more I see him the less I like him. Yeah, I know. He has earned a future TV title shot, but him challenging Kushida was cringe worthy. His challenge of Jay Briscoe was laughable. I don't know what is about Woods but something about him bothers me. I think I must have subconsciously attached his name to David Starr and how much I want to see Starr over Woods.
King of Indy Style
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by King of Indy Style »

Josh Woods is just a shittier version of Matt Riddle. Why watch a mediocre Josh Woods match against someone outshining him like David Starr when you could watch Matt Riddle steal the show against people like ZSJ, Keith Lee, Kyle O'Reilly, ect
Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

King of Indy Style wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:48 pm Josh Woods is just a shittier version of Matt Riddle. Why watch a mediocre Josh Woods match against someone outshining him like David Starr when you could watch Matt Riddle steal the show against people like ZSJ, Keith Lee, Kyle O'Reilly, ect
And that's symptomatic of the problem isn't it? Riddle should be in ROH not Woods.
monster mafia
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by monster mafia »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:01 pm
King of Indy Style wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:48 pm Josh Woods is just a shittier version of Matt Riddle. Why watch a mediocre Josh Woods match against someone outshining him like David Starr when you could watch Matt Riddle steal the show against people like ZSJ, Keith Lee, Kyle O'Reilly, ect
And that's symptomatic of the problem isn't it? Riddle should be in ROH not Woods.
that was wwe fault.
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AlexROH
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by AlexROH »

I know King of Indy Style will hate me for this, but I don't get the hype around Matt Riddle. When he debuted he was a interesting wrestler who had short shoot style matches. But now, thanks to all the over-hype and a bunch of reviewers that said that all his matches were MOTYCs, he is meh. He just do his shit, doesn't know how to sell and makes a spotfest in every match. He's perfect for PWG, but I'm tired of his matches in EVOLVE and PROGRESS. Plus, he's stupid and believes his better than anyone with just 2 years in the businness.

But yeah, Woods is green and average as fuck.
alexsmellzzz
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by alexsmellzzz »

Riddle has had more great matches in the last year or so than anybody else on the US indies. I'd say just give him another chance and try to get into him. I mean, he has a TON of different kinds of matches, he's definitely not formulaic like you are saying. He does some of the same moves, but so does everybody. The match with Keith Lee on the most recent Evolve was incredible. He's also had great ones with Cobb and Ospreay.
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AlexROH
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by AlexROH »

alexsmellzzz wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:55 am Riddle has had more great matches in the last year or so than anybody else on the US indies. I'd say just give him another chance and try to get into him. I mean, he has a TON of different kinds of matches, he's definitely not formulaic like you are saying. He does some of the same moves, but so does everybody. The match with Keith Lee on the most recent Evolve was incredible. He's also had great ones with Cobb and Ospreay.
Yes. There are some great matches. I mean, I don't hate him, but I don't get all the hype. He will give you a 4* match, but then will have a bunch of ramdon match. "A TON of different kinds of matches?" --> Really? He always work the same formula. He shit on people who doesn't want to do his thing. Riddle is the kind of wrestler that you either hate or love. I love some of his matches, but in 2017 I can't get into him. He faced WALTER two times. WALTER did an awesome job working on Riddle's leg but then he forget everything and just did his Superman Comeback. I don't like these types of things.
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Actually Really enjoyed this week's episode, I thought the Gresham/Gordon match was a lot better than I saw reported and Gordon showed a lot of talent within the match. I think Gresham is really starting to adjust himself with his style to what gets over in ROH but still show his natrual ability, I think with Gresham it's great that he stands out with his style, and I think it will give new fans or the newer fans something to develop a taste for and we will see more guys like Gresham come in.

Fish and Young really was great and if only these guys could have had something at Best In The World and maybe could have push Young's Fued with Lethal with a first match at Death Before Dishonour it would have been such a great two way split feud.

With White/Martinez I just found the pace maybe a bit too slow in places when it should have picked up especially from White, if he is going to have his Babyface style his energy needs to be up on his combacks and some of his moves. Martinez really does a lot for guys considering his size and it maybe why he paces himself so it can still go later on. It will be interesting to see where this goes because i've enjoyed the back and fourth between both of them.

Seeing Star back against Woods would be great, I have no problem him calling out Jay despite it's ramdomness it helps create a too cocky to full of your own skills type personality which I don't mind at all, especially if Jay schools just to show he isn't anywhere near where he thinks he is.
SweetDaddy
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by SweetDaddy »

ROH TV sucked again this week.

I think its time to admit to myself that I like NJPW better.

Ill still watch ROH but its like watching the Jeff Jarrett WCW days wishing for the nWo days to come back.
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

SweetDaddy wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:31 pm ROH TV sucked again this week.

I think its time to admit to myself that I like NJPW better.

Ill still watch ROH but its like watching the Jeff Jarrett WCW days wishing for the nWo days to come back.
I know how you feel man. Woods, ahem, challenging Jay Briscoe makes me feel the same way.
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

What a shit week. You can skip this week's episode and save 60 minutes of your life. The only good thing was the Kenny King win.
whippetface
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by whippetface »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:57 am What a shit week. You can skip this week's episode and save 60 minutes of your life. The only good thing was the Kenny King win.

I usually just read this site and don't feel the need to comment, but I really wanted to reply to this post. I'd urge everyone to simply watch the show yourself and make up your own mind, as I personally thoroughly enjoyed it this week.

I was quite impressed by Coast to Coast and I think they'll do well. I also believe that with a bit of time, Josh Woods can be a truly big name in the company, especially if they keep putting him against guys like Jay Briscoe. The main event was really entertaining, but that's mainly because I love to hate BCB so much. He's a fantastic heel.
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Re: ROH on SBG Discussion Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

whippetface wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:55 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:57 am What a shit week. You can skip this week's episode and save 60 minutes of your life. The only good thing was the Kenny King win.

I usually just read this site and don't feel the need to comment, but I really wanted to reply to this post. I'd urge everyone to simply watch the show yourself and make up your own mind, as I personally thoroughly enjoyed it this week.

I was quite impressed by Coast to Coast and I think they'll do well. I also believe that with a bit of time, Josh Woods can be a truly big name in the company, especially if they keep putting him against guys like Jay Briscoe. The main event was really entertaining, but that's mainly because I love to hate BCB so much. He's a fantastic heel.
Do you work for the ROH front office or what? This past week's episode was fucking bad. But...if you think my critiquing of the latest episode was unfair, you should look up a few posts up and you'll see I liked last week's episode. That's indicative of the overall problem isn't it? Shitty, inconsistent booking that kills the overall flow of the weekly TV show.

The Young Bucks are treading water right now. So they have nothing for them to do and the best idea is to throw them in a 3 way with The Tempura Boyz and Coast 2 Coast? The finishing sequence was crap. It took way too long to set up.

If Josh Woods is going to be a big name in this company, its in serious trouble. Every time I see Woods the more I cringe. He is fucking awkward in the ring at times and has less upside than any previous TPT winner. He is going to look like a complete putz if they throw him in the ring with Kushida.

The episode was shit. The 4 way was decent only for the fact that the right guy won.

And the pull apart between Daniels and Cody was flat. Compare that to the Samoa Joe/Brock Lesnar pull apart from Raw a few weeks back and see the difference between two guys who legit look like they want to fuck each other up and two guys going through the motions.

I call it as I see it. I am fairly certain that most people who post here will agree with me about this past episode. If they don't I couldn't give a fuck. Catering to the company regardless of what they produce is fucking spineless. I could go on ad nauseam about the state of the product but there is no God damn point. If your intention was to undermine my opinion, well...all it did was make you look like another ROHBot.
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