Weekly ROH TV Thread (on Sinclair Networks)

[Big Red Machine]

Taven is an undeniable treasure. Loved the match with Ultimo Guerrero. I would love for him to have a world title run. Would have just absolute nuclear heat in every city.

Aside from Boston and Milwaukee, LOL. I've never seen a guy get over as a babyface so accidentally the way Taven did in Milwaukee with the shots thing.

[BurningHammer]

Thankfully after a rather forgettable episode last time out the three man tag guantlet episode worked well for the most part, up till the Shelly injury which i did think threw things a little, but in the end I thought it was better than I had originally expected it to be overall.

I don't know if it will go anywhere now that Best Freinds are back as a team in the future, but hopefully it's one of those times that ROH follows through when they do these put together things.

Giving Isham the win was a nice tough especially as he looks to be the first graudate with real in all areas, he should get out in the world now and get away from the 'school'

[WebConn]

Channel surfing and landed on Ring of Honor on that charge channel. My cable provider carries the channel.

The building they are running is way to big for them and you can see a ton of empty seats in the bleachers. Its a little distracting while watching maybe making them a little bush league. Idk I’m being nit picky.

Silas Young vs former TNA World Heavyweight Champion, Chris Sabin was really good. Or at least I enjoyed it. It was action packed and fast paced but never rushed. Silas’ ground and pound and Sabins aerial assault styles jelled well together. It was a fun opener.

Hurricane vs Marty Scrull, say what you want about Hurricane not belonging in ROH or whatever but when I was 12 he was my favorite wrestler you couldn’t tell me Hurricane shouldn’t be world champ. So I’m partial to this match. It’s hero vs villain so right of the back it’s high stakes. The crowd popped big for the Hurricane as it should be. Thought this match was really good. I don’t dislike Marty Scrull I can watch a Marty Scrull match. Other being a Hurricane fan and reliving my younger years of being a wrestling fan it wasn’t all comedy spots. There were comedy spots but they also wrestled. Scrull did a good job of playing the heel in this one he was nasty like any good villain. Spitting in Helms face and some trash talking. Helms is older and not as fast as he once was but the dude can still go. He more than held his own here. Helms hit a swinging neckbreaker on Scrull off the top rope that was cool.

That Triple Threat 6 man tag match main event, was what you’d think it would be. Not saying that’s a bad thing but it was spotfest. There was lot of cool shit. It was wild and chaotic and a blast. There was no psychology it was all just a bunch of moves. But sometimes all you need is moonsaults and crotch chops. Bushi sprayed mist in Todd Sinclair’s face, that got a big pop. The Young Bucks hit a bunch of super kicks. It was mindless fun and the crowd had a blast and it came off as exciting on TV.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Channel surfing and landed on Ring of Honor on that charge channel. My cable provider carries the channel.

The building they are running is way to big for them and you can see a ton of empty seats in the bleachers. Its a little distracting while watching maybe making them a little bush league. Idk I’m being nit picky.

Silas Young vs former TNA World Heavyweight Champion, Chris Sabin was really good. Or at least I enjoyed it. It was action packed and fast paced but never rushed. Silas’ ground and pound and Sabins aerial assault styles jelled well together. It was a fun opener.

Hurricane vs Marty Scrull, say what you want about Hurricane not belonging in ROH or whatever but when I was 12 he was my favorite wrestler you couldn’t tell me Hurricane shouldn’t be world champ. So I’m partial to this match. It’s hero vs villain so right of the back it’s high stakes. The crowd popped big for the Hurricane as it should be. Thought this match was really good. I don’t dislike Marty Scrull I can watch a Marty Scrull match. Other being a Hurricane fan and reliving my younger years of being a wrestling fan it wasn’t all comedy spots. There were comedy spots but they also wrestled. Scrull did a good job of playing the heel in this one he was nasty like any good villain. Spitting in Helms face and some trash talking. Helms is older and not as fast as he once was but the dude can still go. He more than held his own here. Helms hit a swinging neckbreaker on Scrull off the top rope that was cool.

That Triple Threat 6 man tag match main event, was what you’d think it would be. Not saying that’s a bad thing but it was spotfest. There was lot of cool shit. It was wild and chaotic and a blast. There was no psychology it was all just a bunch of moves. But sometimes all you need is moonsaults and crotch chops. Bushi sprayed mist in Todd Sinclair’s face, that got a big pop. The Young Bucks hit a bunch of super kicks. It was mindless fun and the crowd had a blast and it came off as exciting on TV.

Pretty much agree with everything you said. Helms/Scrull was better than I thought it would be. Dare I say I wouldn't mind seeing Helms on a semi regular basis. And yes I marked out when Helms teased the Vertebraker.

The highlight of the main event for me was seeing​ Bushi hit Todd Sinclair with the mist. Sinclair sold it like he had been shot. Funny shit.

[WebConn]

Mojo I was thinking the same thing about Hurricane I wouldn't mind seeing him every now and again.

[AlexROH]

Didn't like this episode as much as last week. Having Hurricane Helms on TV in 2018 is a dull move. Plus, Marty The Super Villain was getting a serious push again. Everybody though he was getting the world title and the first thing we see from him is a comedy match with Helms lol. And now he isn't even on the International Cup.

[kovs27]

Didn't like this episode as much as last week. Having Hurricane Helms on TV in 2018 is a dull move. Plus, Marty The Super Villain was getting a serious push again. Everybody though he was getting the world title and the first thing we see from him is a comedy match with Helms lol. And now he isn't even on the International Cup.

Marty got pinned by the world champ twice this year. He needs a little break from the main event before getting another shot. Racking up some wins in the midcard isn't going to hurt him. With the BTE storyline of him being a Junior vs. Okada I wouldn't be surprised if Marty is trying to put some more size on to move up to being a heavyweight. Then he may get his world title run.

[BurningHammer]

Thought that TV picked up again with recent episodes coming from Atlanta, they have found a good home there and the crowd always respsonds.

Really enjoyed the Flip vs Young match, same with main event although I kind of wish they made a bigger deal with considering it was a title change but in many ways it adds to the surprise nature of it.

The Kenny King stuff was nice and gave a better insight into why he did what he did, speaking of that match again another match I enjoyed.

I thought the Cobb debuted was nice, although i thought the match he interupted went on a bit longer than it should, that said even in that time, Isom showed he's a real talent and he needs to be with much better guys now. Reminds of Lethal and how good he was despite him being so young.

[AlexROH]

The way they are presenting Cobb on TV is fantastic!! Such a big deal. Reading the spoilers it looked weak, but when you see on tv it's a different world. Hope he gets a match with Isom at DBD, so he can destroy him and Isom can get some PPV time, and then challenges Martinez for the TV Title.

Loved the heel/face dynamic of the tag main event too. Really strong television these weeks in Atlanta. I'm liking every day a little bit more Bully too, he stays in the mid card and help other talents. His after match promo with Silas was fantastic and got me hyped for another Silas's push:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYsMiotp248

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

The Lethal/Gresham Iron Man match was the best TV match this year by far. The TV promos of this match the past few weeks have been effective and Gresham comes across as a legitimate contender. This match delivers and the last 10 minutes really kicked into high gear and told a good story.

I won't spoil the ending, but suffice to say I would hope that in future TV tapings, that they have a match of this length to really showcase the talent.

If you haven't seen this match yet, I highly recommend it. It might be the best title defense in either of the Lethal title reigns.

[Chrisvegas27]

Do you think ring of honor has good production and storylines in general

[Chrisvegas27]

So what do you all think of the roh product lately a lot of people are saying it's taking a sports entertainment direction

[JDE]

I watch ROH TV every week and don’t think it gets the credit it deserves. For example this weekends episode was great.
Coast to Coast looked great against the Briscoes.
Jeff Cobb Vs Punishment Martinez was exactly what it needed to be and Cobb has been booked perfectly so far.
The main event between Chris Sabin and Marty Scurll was an awesome match and I would love to see a rematch between the two.

[Big Red Machine]

I watched the Lethal vs. Gresham episode and thought it was pretty great. I gave the Ironman Match 8.75/10 and thought Kaz and Mark had just about the best match they could have possibly had in the time allotted to them and with the finish they were given.. and I'm not saying it was a bad finish either. I also really liked the fact that Jay came out during a commercial break and that the finish happened extremely quickly after coming back from the break, because I think doing something like that every once in a while makes things feel a little less scripted.

The episode was good enough that I decided I would start watching every week again (although that didn't happen because I've spent the past six weeks using most of my spare time to play a massive game of catch-up on RevPro, wXw, PROGRESS, LU, and others, I do still intend to try to catch up). And while I did like the in-ring product I was presented with, I am cautious because a 30+ minute match is an anomaly, and while I loved the match itself, it was still very glaring to me how the story supporting it could have been greatly improved by some relatively minor booking changes. I will post my criticisms (and suggestions for how it could have been done better) below for those who are interested, but suffice it to say that some of the big problems for me- the disconnect created by the fact that the stories the announcers seem to be pushing and the story the booker seems to be trying to tell (which don't always seem to be the same) are at best uncorroborated and often outright contradicted by what I see when I watch the product.





Lethal vs. Gresham would have been so much better if Gresham had actually beaten Lethal at some point going into it (their singles match at Masters of the Craft 2018 seems like it would have been an ideal time for this to happen) rather than being 0-2 and Lethal just giving him this match out of the kindness of his heart and the stipulation being totally random. I mean… how can the announcers be so insistent that “these two men are so equal” when Lethal has won both of their matches completely cleanly? Yes, Gresham hurt his leg in the first match, but the announcers’ attempts to claim that “Gresham came back too early” because “you don’t get many chances to face a guy like Jay Lethal” and was thus not at 100% for their second match are completely ridiculous when you realize that 1) it was never brought up at the time, and 2) he didn’t “come back” for this match against Lethal. That was his third match in ROH that month, including a pointless opener against Chuck Taylor at Supercard of Honor and then a TV match against f*cking WILL FERRARA, and even if it actually was the case that Gresham “came back too early” and was hurt in his match against Lethal, it still wouldn’t matter because Lethal came into that match with a hurt limb as well… and unlike with Gresham, Lethal’s limb was taped-up and Gresham taking advantage of the preexisting injury was part of the story of that match!
Part of the reason I find this all so frustrating is that there is a right way to tell this story if this is the story that you want to tell, but doing so requires putting in some actual forethought and understanding how to tell stories with an interconnected universe that progresses from show to show to show rather than what Delirious does, which is ask you to pluck each match or segment that is important to the storyline out of the timeline and arrange them chronologically in some sort of pocket dimension where I’m supposed to ignore everything that has happened to the characters involved between these segments.
The right way to tell this story would have been as follows: Instead of Gresham vs. Taylor and Lethal & Tanahashi vs. Briscoes for the tag titles at SCOH, you book Gresham vs. Lethal and actually book a tag title match that makes sense. In Gresham vs. Lethal- which would have been Gresham’s first match back since his match with Lethal at Honor Reigns Supreme 2018- you have Gresham’s knee be all taped up and have Lethal work it over and then beat him with a hold that targets the leg. Then you pull Gresham from the events you’ve advertised him for in April (ROH doesn’t actually book matches for more than one weekend of shows in advance anymore unless they’re going to the UK so it’s not like you’d be promising a match and not delivering). Then he comes back in May with his leg all taped up and beats guys like Will Ferrara, and by June the tape is gone and he keeps winning matches (or at least not losing; if New Japan won’t let him beat KUSHIDA then go to a time limit draw!) on his way to setting up this title shot! But instead of doing it the right way, Delirious gives us this crap, which comes across as “whoops! I guess we shouldn’t have had Lethal beat Gresham twice. Quick! Someone come up with something to say to protect Gresham retroactively!” and it comes across as the pathetically sloppy retcon that it is.

[Chrisvegas27]

Roh is becoming a very product and everyone is getting a direction

[Big Red Machine]

Roh is becoming a very product and everyone is getting a direction

You left out an important adjective there, but I will still take issue with second part of your statement. Maybe you can argue that everyone is getting a direction, but if that direction results in them going around in circles then what does it matter? Guys might have "direction" in the Delirious seems to know what he wants them to be doing, but seems incapable of translating that into stories to get them to where they need to be. There are directions, but there aren't any paths.

[BurningHammer]

Really liked the TV this week, I would have made the Sandman vs Silas go longer just to draw out of the heat of the hope of getting the revenge on Ray, the segmant afterwards was money. If everyone isn't behind Flip now, you never will be, the shots were brutal especially when you watch it unedited and having everyone come down was a great move, it made so much sense, especially with Cody. Honestly I have really enjoyed this Bully Ray stuff I realise it isn't everyone bag but honestly think if someone else was inplace of Ray people would be going nuts for this stuff. People could learn a lot from him just through how he makes shit mean something.

The match between Cody and King was much better than I thought it would be and King focusing on Brandi was a nice touch.

[JDE]

The Bully/Flip angle was powerful. I was there live and it was extremely emotional there and it also came off that way on tv. A + angle!

Kenny looked great going into his match with Lethal at Global Wars. The story of the King and Cody match was really good with King pulling out all sorts of creative heel moves.

Great tv this week with great stories.

[famicommander]

I think Madison Rayne has really done great work since All In.

[alexsmellzzz]

I think Madison Rayne has really done great work since All In.

Not that big of a fan. She's ok.

When I saw that Jordynne Grace signed with Impact, I kinda get the feeling that ROH is getting TNA leftovers now. She's dating Gresham but she can't get on ROH cards? And now she'll probably be a way bigger deal on Impact, but I feel like her in-ring would have been perfect for ROH. Some Jordynne Grace vs Kelly Klein matches. Idk. Seems like ROH's womens division is forever an afterthought. Madison Rayne vs Sumie could be good, though. Sumie is underrated.

I did really like this week's episode a lot. Silas/Sandman was awesome, what a perfect choice to open the show with. So many companies have done the thing where they bring out an ECW guy in Philly. This was a perfect usage of it, I thought.