Weekly ROH TV Thread (on Sinclair Networks)

[Big Red Machine]

The Corino/Whitmer feud has been going on for YEARS at this point, you can't seriously expect people to give this tripe even more time, especially for garbage like Kevin fucking Sullivan being evil and MINDGAMES.

This. The idea that they didn't just do a clean finish at the PPV and let the feud be done already is completely baffling to me.

[jordidebaas]

Why does everyone hate P-Dogg?

Because he is bad and embarrassing to watch and a waste of time?

The gimmick is that he's embarassing. Obviously it's working. He's being used as a jobber, I don't see how that's a waste of time. They needed someone to job, and I'd rather have somebody who has a character that people become invested in as a jobber than a random vanilla guy noone will ever remember

[Leo C]

TV has been very good the last two weeks. This main event angle has reinvigorated Kyle and the BC in my eyes. I am still wondering where was the security that Nigel theoretically put there, but alright.

[Big Red Machine]

Why does everyone hate P-Dogg?

Because he is bad and embarrassing to watch and a waste of time?

The gimmick is that he's embarassing. Obviously it's working. He's being used as a jobber, I don't see how that's a waste of time. They needed someone to job, and I'd rather have somebody who has a character that people become invested in as a jobber than a random vanilla guy noone will ever remember

It's not embarrassing as in "he's embarrassing himself. It's embarrassing as in "I hope no one lese walks into the room while this is on my TV screen."

This squash match was a waste of time because it didn't help Moose in any way (we've seen him squash a million jobbers), and the three minutes they used for the promo and match here could have been given to another match (like Moose vs. Dijak) to make that match- between two guys who we are supposed to see as stars- better.

A jobber isn't supposed to have character. You're not supposed to be invested in the jobber. The jobber's job is to get his/her opponent over by bumping around and getting obliterated. P-Dog isn't supposed to be getting people invested in his character.

[jordidebaas]

This squash match was a waste of time because it didn't help Moose in any way (we've seen him squash a million jobbers), and the three minutes they used for the promo and match here could have been given to another match (like Moose vs. Dijak) to make that match- between two guys who we are supposed to see as stars- better.

A jobber isn't supposed to have character. You're not supposed to be invested in the jobber. The jobber's job is to get his/her opponent over by bumping around and getting obliterated. P-Dog isn't supposed to be getting people invested in his character.

Then the waste of time wasn't P-Dogg, but the match. It would've been just as much of a waste of time if it had been someone else.

And your second point is just stupid. People will care more about somebody beating up someone they would like to see getting beat up then someone they don't care about.

[Big Red Machine]

This squash match was a waste of time because it didn't help Moose in any way (we've seen him squash a million jobbers), and the three minutes they used for the promo and match here could have been given to another match (like Moose vs. Dijak) to make that match- between two guys who we are supposed to see as stars- better.

A jobber isn't supposed to have character. You're not supposed to be invested in the jobber. The jobber's job is to get his/her opponent over by bumping around and getting obliterated. P-Dog isn't supposed to be getting people invested in his character.

Then the waste of time wasn't P-Dogg, but the match. It would've been just as much of a waste of time if it had been someone else.

And your second point is just stupid. People will care more about somebody beating up someone they would like to see getting beat up then someone they don't care about.

Yes. I was not saying it was P-Dog's presence in particular that made this a waste of time (although I'm not sure if other jobbers would have gotten to cut a promo).

No one cares enough about P-Dog to want to see him get beaten up. The fact that P-Dog was the squash-ee did not make this any more enjoyable or entertaining. He's not someone like Summer Rae or The Miz or Mike Bennett where his facials and mannerisms during the match make it more satisfying to see him get tossed around. He's just a guy with a terrible gimmick.

[jordidebaas]

This squash match was a waste of time because it didn't help Moose in any way (we've seen him squash a million jobbers), and the three minutes they used for the promo and match here could have been given to another match (like Moose vs. Dijak) to make that match- between two guys who we are supposed to see as stars- better.

A jobber isn't supposed to have character. You're not supposed to be invested in the jobber. The jobber's job is to get his/her opponent over by bumping around and getting obliterated. P-Dog isn't supposed to be getting people invested in his character.

Then the waste of time wasn't P-Dogg, but the match. It would've been just as much of a waste of time if it had been someone else.

And your second point is just stupid. People will care more about somebody beating up someone they would like to see getting beat up then someone they don't care about.

Yes. I was not saying it was P-Dog's presence in particular that made this a waste of time (although I'm not sure if other jobbers would have gotten to cut a promo).

No one cares enough about P-Dog to want to see him get beaten up. The fact that P-Dog was the squash-ee did not make this any more enjoyable or entertaining. He's not someone like Summer Rae or The Miz or Mike Bennett where his facials and mannerisms during the match make it more satisfying to see him get tossed around. He's just a guy with a terrible gimmick.

I think the live crowds disagreed with you, as, as you mentioned somewhere, they were chanting boring after like a few seconds into his 'rap'. To me, that indicates that they wanted to see him get beaten up

[Big Red Machine]

Then the waste of time wasn't P-Dogg, but the match. It would've been just as much of a waste of time if it had been someone else.

And your second point is just stupid. People will care more about somebody beating up someone they would like to see getting beat up then someone they don't care about.

Yes. I was not saying it was P-Dog's presence in particular that made this a waste of time (although I'm not sure if other jobbers would have gotten to cut a promo).

No one cares enough about P-Dog to want to see him get beaten up. The fact that P-Dog was the squash-ee did not make this any more enjoyable or entertaining. He's not someone like Summer Rae or The Miz or Mike Bennett where his facials and mannerisms during the match make it more satisfying to see him get tossed around. He's just a guy with a terrible gimmick.

I think the live crowds disagreed with you, as, as you mentioned somewhere, they were chanting boring after like a few seconds into his 'rap'. To me, that indicates that they wanted to see him get beaten up

No. It indicates that they wanted to see him stop talking. I think they would have been happier if there was some other jobber in P-Dog's place, not boring them with a promo and just doing what jobbers do and getting obliterated.

[Thelone]

Jobbers like P-Dogg here don't need a character, let alone promo time. You're not supposed to be emotionally invested in a squash, you're just here to see X crush a random fool to death in seconds.

[TYFDK]

I'm on both sides. Sure, sometimes a short and simple squash gets the point across. But P-Dogg is entertaining to me, as well as his posse. There's room for both, in my eyes. Makes things even a little bit more interesting.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Here's my latest column on Voices of Wrestling on the last week of ROH news & notes:

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2016/0 ... ad-shaved/

[TYFDK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4hU-YD7qPU

Preview for this weekends episode of TV.

It's a new episode. White/Briscoe and Kamaitachi/Stuka Jr.!

[Big Red Machine]

So Nigel thinks that the Bucks don't deserve a title shot and he flat-out says that Roppongi Vice do... so why the hell did he book a #1 contendership match instead of just announcing Roppongi Vice as the #1 contenders. Nigel comes off like such an idiot some times. Same deal in the Cole vs. Lethal thing: If Lethal wants revenge on Cole but Nigel doesn't want to give Cole a title shot, why didn't Nigel just book them against each other in a non-title match?

[TYFDK]

Solo Darling vs. Kelly Klein just hit 1 million views...that's definitely something

[Big Red Machine]

I really liked doing the draw between Briscoe and White. Draws are WAY too underused in ROH (and in wrestling in general).

[TYFDK]

I really liked doing the draw between Briscoe and White. Draws are WAY too underused in ROH (and in wrestling in general).

Agreed. It was really well done.

This week's episode featured a lot of Frankie Kazarian and Christopher Daniels, and that's not a bad thing. It was almost like the episode had a theme to it. It all lead to Nigel McGuinness stating he's "frustrated" (something Kevin Kelly touched on in an episode of ROH Update during the week, nice touch) and

Spoiler: show

announced MCMG vs. Young Bucks vs. Addiction in Ladder War 6

after the main event.

Hope to see more themed episodes in the future. The week before was mainly focused on tag team matches, too.

[Big Red Machine]

I really liked doing the draw between Briscoe and White. Draws are WAY too underused in ROH (and in wrestling in general).

Agreed. It was really well done.

This week's episode featured a lot of Frankie Kazarian and Christopher Daniels, and that's not a bad thing. It was almost like the episode had a theme to it. It all lead to Nigel McGuinness stating he's "frustrated" (something Kevin Kelly touched on in an episode of ROH Update during the week, nice touch) and

Spoiler: show

announced MCMG vs. Young Bucks vs. Addiction in Ladder War 6

after the main event.

Hope to see more themed episodes in the future. The week before was mainly focused on tag team matches, too.

Didn't I see that in TNA once? With just as little build to actual gimmick?

[Big Red Machine]

My thoughts on last week's show:

WAR MACHINE vs. KEITH LEE & SHANE TAYLOR- 7/10
This match was a war between giants! Big giant dudes doing crazy things and hitting each other really hard and picking each other up with ease, which all looked really impressive. Lee and Taylor make an impact with a clean win over War Machine.
As good as the match was, though, the commentary was the opposite.
Kevin Kelly tells us that it is such a terrible betrayal for Shane Taylor to have attacked War Machine because he is apparently a “protégé” of Raymond Rowe. NO! Stop saying dumb sh*t like this! I don’t care if it’s legitimately true or not: it wasn’t part of the story! If it was supposed to be part of the story, then we would have gotten backstage segments after Lee & Taylor got some wins in which Rowe would come up to Taylor and say “good job, kid!” But that never happened, so tacking it on now is just pulling it out of your ass!
Not only does this seem to be at odds with the previously established story, but having a “protégé” feels completely foreign to the Raymond Rowe/War Machine character. Raymond Rowe isn’t the type of guy who takes random youngsters under his wing. He’s a big, mean, angry Viking! This is something else that Kevin Kelly does that drives me nuts, where he feels the need to give you information that might be a shoot, but seems at odds with the characters in question. I don’t care if a guy in the Top Prospect Tournament is Hanson’s best friend of if Rhett Titus and Will Ferrara go to gym together or if Rowe helped teach Taylor the business or whatever, and I don’t want to know. Even if this info isn’t necessarily at odds with the characters, I still don’t want to be given the impression that most of these guys are good buddies in a small, closed community of professional wrestlers, because that takes away some of the mystique, and replaces it with an aura of brotherhood/friendliness which is detrimental to a television wrestling product.

So apparently the reason Lee & Taylor turned on War Machine was because Taylor feels like Rowe “forgot” him once Rowe got signed by ROH. I don’t like this framing of the feud at all (I much prefer Matt Taven’s “when you go to prison the first thing you do is find the biggest guy there and punch him right in the mouth to let everyone know that you’re the toughest now” framing), but regardless of whether or not I like it, it would be much more effective if THEY LET SHANE TAYLOR CUT A PROMO EXPLAINING IT instead of having Kevin Kelly tell us second-hand.
Also, if this was the case, then their backstage confrontation (possibly the only backstage segment we’ve had in ROH all year) way back on the DVD extras for Winter Warriors Tour: Collinsville makes even less sense.

FOUR CORNER SURVIVAL MATCH: Cheeseburger vs. David Starr vs. Joey Diesel Daddiego vs. “Tough” Tim Hughes (w/”Brutal” Bob Evans)- yeah. There’s a f*cking world tag team title match on this show, but we’ve got to put on this match between a bunch of jobbers. And the worst part about this is that by the time it was over, I would have given anything for this to have just been a four-way jobber match that wasted six minutes of time, because what we got…
So about a minute in, BJ Whitmer comes out to do commentary. He’s got the big black X painted on his forehead and he’s got black eye-liner on, and he sits down and starts cutting 1983 Kevin Sullivan promo from Florida, except with absolutely none of the delivery. Then the lights magically go out and the TV feed gets magically taken over by Whitmer’s stupid video package from last week, saying the same crap he was saying on commentary, accompanied by a very unimpressive-looking picture of Punisher Martinez. Then, when the lights came back on, Punisher Martinez beat up the jobbers, while Kevin Kelly, in the same tone he says everything else, says “he’s the demon that BJ Whitmer summoned.”
Okay… let’s start with that last point first. HE’S NOT A F*CKING DEMON! HE’S JUST PUNISHER MARTINEZ, AND WE’VE SEEN HIM BEFORE! Then there’s the whole “take over the camera feed and lights going out” thing. WHY?! What is the point of doing something that so clearly doesn’t mesh with the way the rest of the show is presented that it kills suspension of disbelief. Why not just have Punisher Martinez run in like normal and beat up the jobbers. In fact, if you did it that way, you could have some mystery as to why Punisher Martinez did this, and then you could reveal that he has been sent to by Sullivan and Whitmer to wreak havoc and all of that other stupid sh*t they threatened would happen if Steve Corino didn’t give in to the Dark Side of the Force.
Not only did this suck in every conceivable way, but Kevin Kelly also kept screwing up Martinez’s name, calling him “Punishment Martinez.” The fact that this made air isn’t just a perfectly good justification for firing Delirious, but he deserves to be kneecapped as well. It’s one thing to copy other people. It’s another thing entirely to ONLY COPY THE SHITTIEST PARTS of someone else’s product. We’ve got the stupid, pointless magic tricks from WWE’s Wyatt Family. From WCW we’ve got bullsh*t PPV main events that almost always under-deliver, sometimes without real finishes. From New Japan we’ve now got the entirely pointless six-man tag team titles. From TNA we’ve got the Russo Swerve from the Bullet Club angle and other stupid pointless turns (like Page’s babyface turn). From PWG we’ve got the whole “we’ll make Cole & the Young Bucks are top heels even though we know everyone will cheer them” mentality, as well as the shows full of random matches that never have consequences, except in ROH they’re not given any time to be worthwhile so it’s just disappointing instead of just the booking equivalent of a spofest.

YOUNG BUCKS PROMO- very annoying, so… mission accomplished, I guess.

DALTON CASTLE & THE BOYS vs. THE CABINET- 5.75/10
This was like a short house-show opener. I would have been fine with this in most spots, but not here when it is taking up time from our big world tag team title championship main event, and we also still have the promised Adam Cole promo to get though. Speaking of…

ADAM COLE PROMO- good.
He warns says he is better than Kyle O’Reilly, as evidenced by him being a two-time ROH World Champion while Kyle has never even won the belt once, and he vows that Kyle never will.

ROH WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Addiction(c) vs. the Young Bucks- 6.5/10
The Addiction get their entrance first, even though they’re the champions. They try to set a trap for the Young Bucks, but the Bucks somehow saw this coming and snuck out through the crowd, came out behind the Addiction, tapped them on the shoulder, and superkicked them when they turned around. Even when they’re facing other heels, I guess we just have to make the f*cking tag champs look like complete and total chumps.
These two teams with no beef at all also decided to pull out weapons to use, just because. They did stuff for a while with the Young Bucks playing the babyfaces despite the fact that they’re supposed to be a key part of the top heel faction in the company.
Then we got the bullsh*t finish. Kamaitachi came out to cause a distraction but MCMG came out behind him and pulled him off the apron. They started brawling, and Daniels went out to help Kamaitachi. The referee was looking right at Chris Sabin punching Christopher Daniels, but didn’t call for the DQ. In the ring, Kaz grabbed a chair and went to hit one of the Jacksons, but Shelley got the chair away from behind. Shelley tried to hit Kaz but hit the Jackson instead, leading to Kaz pinning the Jackson to retain. I really didn’t like the dirty finish here. I know where they are going with this three-way feud and the weapon-use, but I would much rather they get there by booking a long, well-thought out feud with good angles that builds major heat between the teams and where the challengers really feel worthy. The way the weapons were introduced into this match very much reflects the way it feels like they have been introduced into this feud: like something that has been forced in, just for the sake of having them there.

Despite the great opener, this was another frustrating show from ROH, and the main reason for the frustration is very simple. ROH is not being ROH.

[Thelone]

The "tell, don't show" mentality is very much a staple in Kelly's awful announcing. From Mark Briscoe "going after the TV title" for the last two years despite doing absolutely nothing to earn a title shot and never even acknoledging that goal, to Moose being best buds with random goofs he ruthlessly destroyed with no second thought whatsoever, to Elgin's new leaf, to ACH's mythical backstage heat and relationship with Sydal, to X being Y's protégé #OuttaNowhere, to about 95% of that Corino/Whitmer feud of doom, Kelly comes off either as a Zbyszko type who's two pages ahead in the script (Elgin and Moose before their face turn) or just pulling random facts out of his ass to fill the giant plotholes in a storyline no matter how nonsensical they can be in kayfabe.

[AssShooter]

They need to have an automatic upload of the TV episodes on their website, each time there is an holiday the show is late.
I don't know what happened to this week's episode but it isn't available or listed on FiteTV.