Weekly ROH TV Thread (on Sinclair Networks)

[Burnside]

Why do you guys think the Dalton Castle character isn't gay?

[jordidebaas]

I just don't see it. I just feel like the point of the character isn't whether he's gay or not, he's just this flamboyant character, who does a lot of weird stuff, and whether he's gay or not really doesn't matter that much.

[TYFDK]

I hope his sexual orientation is never revealed. If he's straight, great. If he's gay, great. But it doesn't matter, and something ROH is great at is not pointing out details like that.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I hope his sexual orientation is never revealed. If he's straight, great. If he's gay, great. But it doesn't matter, and something ROH is great at is not pointing out details like that.

I agree. I think it's something Castle might not want deliberately want stated to the viewer either. The ambiguity lends a lot to the character. Wrestling sometimes has a terrible tendency to overstate the obvious. In this case, the vague nuances of the Dalton Castle character works really well.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Unless you're amused by Tim Hughes like I am, you can skip this week's show altogether. Dead Memphis crowd. 7 team gauntlet was meh. Cool that RPG wins, but nothing of note happens. Weakest show thus far this year.

[Burnside]

I just don't see it. I just feel like the point of the character isn't whether he's gay or not, he's just this flamboyant character, who does a lot of weird stuff, and whether he's gay or not really doesn't matter that much.

I agree it doesn't matter, I was just wondering why you were insisting on the previous page that he wasn't gay. It's a pretty reasonable assumption that the character is gay.

[Sardonic Artery]

Agree with a lot of thoughts on the Top Prospect episode, but I seem to be one of the few people down on Lio Rush.

I did enjoy Castle vs. Daniels though (I've got a ton of love for both men). However you interpret it, Castle even "acting gay" in wrestling does what it needs to do.

Am I the only one who noticed Cary Silkin tuned out on his phone during Daniels' entrance? I know he didn't expect to be on camera, but still. Scarlet seemed to enjoy Dalton's entrance though (who doesn't?) -- whatever happened to her, in ROH or elsewhere?

[YimYac]

Why do you guys think the Dalton Castle character isn't gay?

Has he done anything to make you think he is (not that it matters)? Flamboyant yes.

[Wilson]

Why do you guys think the Dalton Castle character isn't gay?

Has he done anything to make you think he is (not that it matters)? Flamboyant yes.

To the best of my memory, there is no material to that would lead the viewer to effectively decide Castle’s orientation. He could be heterosexual, homosexual, transvestic, chronofilic, or whatever it may be—we know about as much as his preferences as we do for Silas. If you define him as anything, you are most likely bring your outside preconceptions to his character. Which is OK in itself, but it can be misleading.

It’s about as fair to say that he might be gay as it is to say that he might be straight.

[Wilson]

Huh, that sure was a terrible episode of ROH this past week. The crowd was not buying a minute of the seven-team gauntlet, but who would be excited for a program that was almost being presented as something non-canonical? I hope they learn to avoid hosting filler content in the future.

I hope they also learn that gauntlets in wrestling are always a death.

[STITCHES]

I loved it. Actual matches, no bullshit promos, no telegraphed outcome. I had no idea who was going to win and how. Each match did what it was supposed to do, which is keep me interested.

[Burnside]

Why do you guys think the Dalton Castle character isn't gay?

Has he done anything to make you think he is (not that it matters)? Flamboyant yes.

To the best of my memory, there is no material to that would lead the viewer to effectively decide Castle’s orientation. He could be heterosexual, homosexual, transvestic, chronofilic, or whatever it may be—we know about as much as his preferences as we do for Silas. If you define him as anything, you are most likely bring your outside preconceptions to his character. Which is OK in itself, but it can be misleading.

It’s about as fair to say that he might be gay as it is to say that he might be straight.

I think it's an amazing gimmick and I'm very happy he's a babyface, and I don't think he should be required to explicitly state his sexuality. But to suggest there's "no reason" to think the character is gay is just silly. He caresses the faces and bodies of his male valets in a homoerotic manner and uses them as human furniture. His mannerisms and voice are a Liberace pastiche.

The tag gauntlet was really boring. Too many jobber teams and in the end the whole thing served no purpose. Roppongi Vice entering in the final spot and beating exhausted Young Bucks does nothing for anybody.

[Big Red Machine]

Why do you guys think the Dalton Castle character isn't gay?

Has he done anything to make you think he is (not that it matters)? Flamboyant yes.

To the best of my memory, there is no material to that would lead the viewer to effectively decide Castle’s orientation. He could be heterosexual, homosexual, transvestic, chronofilic, or whatever it may be—we know about as much as his preferences as we do for Silas. If you define him as anything, you are most likely bring your outside preconceptions to his character. Which is OK in itself, but it can be misleading.

It’s about as fair to say that he might be gay as it is to say that he might be straight.

Aside form the part where he lovingly strokes the faces of half-naked young men who are his submissive servants. To say there is no material that would lead the viewer to think Dalton Castle is homosexual is an absurd statement. I agree that it is good for them to never overtly state it, but let's not pretend that this is some sort of "is he or isn't he?" Goldust mystery.

[Big Red Machine]

If you follow/watch the product Castle losing to Daniels was part of the push they are giving him.

The story with Castle is that he is not ready to win yet, that´s why the loss to Silas at Final Battle (I didn´t understood at the time and i still think the way they got the boys back to Castle was bad though), why the loss to Daniels this week and that´s why Silas said on his promo that Castle was a loser and maid Castle challenge Silas to the Fight Without Honor to prove that he can win.

On the other hand i fully agree that the negativity here it´s getting out of hand, it gets to a point where you wonder why watch the show when you have so many options out there that you can watch and enjoy or even worse, why come here and complain about something that are not even watching.

I don´t think this is a problem of having Delirious at this point, just wanting to find things to complain about instead of enjoying the show.

Where the hell are you getting this "not ready to win yet" thing from? I've never heard the announcers mention that once, ever. Furthermore, if that were the case, then shouldn't Castle have just lost cleanly? It seems to me that the most effective way to show that someone "isn't ready to win" is to have him just lose clean rather than to have him have the match probably won but only lose to due to cheating.

[Big Red Machine]

Unless you're amused by Tim Hughes like I am,

So you're the one. You probably enjoy Social Outcasts promos, too.
Hughes is terrible and should not be booked in ROH, both in and out of kayfabe (seriously, whatever happened to the Code of Honor being important. How the hell does some rookie with zero wins get kayfabe booked again after not following the Code of Honor in matches with respected ROH veterans like Mark Briscoe and Michael Elgin?).

[Wilson]

I think it's an amazing gimmick and I'm very happy he's a babyface, and I don't think he should be required to explicitly state his sexuality. But to suggest there's "no reason" to think the character is gay is just silly. He caresses the faces and bodies of his male valets in a homoerotic manner and uses them as human furniture. His mannerisms and voice are a Liberace pastiche.

The tag gauntlet was really boring. Too many jobber teams and in the end the whole thing served no purpose. Roppongi Vice entering in the final spot and beating exhausted Young Bucks does nothing for anybody.

Aside form the part where he lovingly strokes the faces of half-naked young men who are his submissive servants. To say there is no material that would lead the viewer to think Dalton Castle is homosexual is an absurd statement. I agree that it is good for them to never overtly state it, but let's not pretend that this is some sort of "is he or isn't he?" Goldust mystery.

Dalton Castle resembles various (definitively) gay showman archetypes. (Really, his physical interactions with his boys seem much more out of showmanship than gratification.) He also resembles the providing patriarchal figure of a nuclear family, risking haunch and limb to protect his boys—which is also the closest we’ve seem him to being affectionate. There were also figures in the Bohemian period that dressed fey and acted somewhat outré, with converging and diverging sexualities.

If one finds it very handy, it’s OK to make rough sketches using extrinsic archetypes, but rough sketches are not that gainful. (In other words, the composition of human furniture, caresses, sequins, ornithological aestheticism, flexibility is a pretty weak framework to describe sexuality—though a pretty good composition of a showman). Sexual identities can be pretty complex. With the information known, I would make the loose guess that Dalton is not heterosexual, but I don’t find myself any closer to real conclusions. If the question does ever arise, it might be most accurate to respond with incertitude when asked if Dalton is gay.

Also, welcome to the ROH on SBG Discussion Thread where we discuss your pressing questions on sexology and where the points don’t matter!

[Big Red Machine]

I think it's an amazing gimmick and I'm very happy he's a babyface, and I don't think he should be required to explicitly state his sexuality. But to suggest there's "no reason" to think the character is gay is just silly. He caresses the faces and bodies of his male valets in a homoerotic manner and uses them as human furniture. His mannerisms and voice are a Liberace pastiche.

The tag gauntlet was really boring. Too many jobber teams and in the end the whole thing served no purpose. Roppongi Vice entering in the final spot and beating exhausted Young Bucks does nothing for anybody.

Aside form the part where he lovingly strokes the faces of half-naked young men who are his submissive servants. To say there is no material that would lead the viewer to think Dalton Castle is homosexual is an absurd statement. I agree that it is good for them to never overtly state it, but let's not pretend that this is some sort of "is he or isn't he?" Goldust mystery.

Dalton Castle resembles various (definitively) gay showman archetypes. (Really, his physical interactions with his boys seem much more out of showmanship than gratification.) He also resembles the providing patriarchal figure of a nuclear family, risking haunch and limb to protect his boys—which is also the closest we’ve seem him to being affectionate. There were also figures in the Bohemian period that dressed fey and acted somewhat outré, with converging and diverging sexualities.

If one finds it very handy, it’s OK to make rough sketches using extrinsic archetypes, but rough sketches are not that gainful. (In other words, the composition of human furniture, caresses, sequins, ornithological aestheticism, flexibility is a pretty weak framework to describe sexuality—though a pretty good composition of a showman). Sexual identities can be pretty complex. With the information known, I would make the loose guess that Dalton is not heterosexual, but I don’t find myself any closer to real conclusions. If the question does ever arise, it might be most accurate to respond with incertitude when asked if Dalton is gay.

Also, welcome to the ROH on SBG Discussion Thread where we discuss your pressing questions on sexology and where the points don’t matter!

It's showmanship clearly aimed to create a certain impression. Whether the character is homosexual or not, he has certainly provided an audience looking at it through the lens of the current culture with plenty of evidence to think that he is. With Goldust, the announcers always made a point to ask "is he or isn't he? Does he really enjoy feeling up Razor Ramon, or is this just a clever ploy to throw Razor off of his game?" Nothing the announcers have said have given any impression that Dalton's character is drawing inspiration from Bohemian times. I'm not saying I don't suspect that everything you have said is 100% correct about how the character was conceived and executed by Dalton himself and how Delirious believes he is best utilized. But from the evidence we have been given on TV (i.e. kayfabe), there seems to be very little question about whether or not Dalton is not heterosexual.

My real concern about the character is that he is really nothing other than the "extrinsic archetype" you have described. I'd like to know more about Dalton Castle the person- his struggles and his motivations. Without that, he'll just wind up being a one-note character. Like a more over version of the Romantic Touch.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Hughes is terrible, but he's more entertaining than a Rhett Titus promo for sure. He's fine for the time allotted, anything more would suck. But no Big Red Machine, the Social Outcasts do nothing for me. I'm astonished that you of all people would make an assumption of what my taste in wrestling is. I think you need to take a step back and re-examine things. I think that Ishii as TV champ is causing you to act irrationally.

[STITCHES]

Yeah! Take a step back, bitches.

[Fawrules]

Huh, that sure was a terrible episode of ROH this past week. The crowd was not buying a minute of the seven-team gauntlet, but who would be excited for a program that was almost being presented as something non-canonical? I hope they learn to avoid hosting filler content in the future.

I hope they also learn that gauntlets in wrestling are always a death.

Keep in mind that the gauntlet match came at the end of a TV Taping where the crowd had already sat through 4+ hours worth of TV between three prior episodes and a Women of Honor Taping. I put the bulk of the blame for a dead crowd on that.