Reflecting on Cornette's impact on ROH

[supersonic]

[classic-cabana]

I think most fans knew Cornette had a hand in the sale through his friendship with Juster, and can appreciate what in hindsight was a fantastic for ROH.

Tag scene was great especially in 2010 especially with KOW and The Briscoes carrying the division. The product was a massive improvement on the Adam Pearce era of ROH (although much of the greatness of 2010 was Steen v Generico which Cornette wanted nothing to do)

New stars were allowed to shine and get over too (O'Reilly, Cole, Bennett, Elgin) although there were a few misses (Mondo?)

I suppose there probably isn't anyone better than Cornette for Delirious to have learned the ropes from, in terms of both what to do and what not to do.

[WHG]

My favorite summary of Cornette's involvement in ROH was a comment that Steen made on Twitter a year or so ago. A fan asked if he ever watched Smoky Mountain Wrestling and he replied: "No, but I worked there in 2011."

[Lexicon]

I loved the "Cornette Era." It was a fun product to follow along with both in the ring and behind the scenes. Not everything hit, and some thing's didn't fit in Ring of Honor, but I really enjoyed the feuds. I felt that most of them were built really well and all had a good lead up to the iPPV's. Talent was built really well, and I even really enjoyed Mondo's rise. Mondo has a lot of passion, and he might be from another planet, but dude loves wrestling and it showed in his spotlight times. Maybe he's not a traditional Ring of Honor guy, but Mondo was leaving everything out there to get over and I respected that.

Anyway, I really miss the Cornette Era. Even with the match quality being as good as it is now, I'm really turned off by the current storylines. Cornette had to go. It had to happen. He was probably going to kill himself or someone else before long. I look back at it as an exciting and very short period of time.

[classic-cabana]

The Richards MMA bumfest during that time was unbearable at times. Thank God for Kevin Steen in 2012.

To be fair 2011 ROH had a lot of disruption with the sale but it lost so much buzz and a lot fans during the later part of the year.

Strong v Jay, Edwards v Hero, Briscoe-ANX battles and the Elgin-O'Reilly SOTF finale were very good-awesome but off the top of my head its the one year that I remember little about

[Burnside]

Mike Mondo was like the worst babyface character of all time. Let's keep that in mind. He calls these his Bitch Sticks.

It's undeniable that ROH fans should be thanking Cornette for brokering the deal which saved the company, which few on this board were willing to acknowledge when they were screaming for his head on a plate in 2012.

I was excited when he got the book; I have always been a fan of him and his philosophy on wrestling. But the bottom line is that his creative was disappointing. He can blame the fans, he can blame Greg the Intern, he can blame the iPPV fiascos, but he booked a lot of things nobody wanted to see. Nobody.

There are no fans who wanted to see charisma sink Dan Severn in 2011. Not ROH hardcores. Not casuals. Nobody. It added zero buys. Cornette built the main event angle of FB 2011 around him.

Mike Mondo was an entertaining undercard heel. Cornette made him an unbearable midcard babyface.

Nobody wanted to see 40-year-old Headbangers, and less than nobody wanted to see them working under generic masks.

Nobody gave a shit about "Killer Instinct" Jay Lethal. That was a flop.

Elgin took SOOO LOOOONG to turn on Roddy that his momentum was fumes by the time it happened.

Cornette accidentally turned his top heel, Kevin Steen, into ROH's top babyface, and its top babyface, Davey Richards, into an insufferable twat. And then he refused to actually double-turn them. Oh, and he also turned ROH itself heel during the Steen feud.

And, of course, he brought us the unforgettable Kevin Steen lawyers skit.

This stuff was bad. It wasn't "a different philosophy". It was just bad.

[classic-cabana]

THAT lawyers skit sums up Cornette's time in ROH.

[Wilson]

ROH in 2011-2012 turned me off the product nearly full stop. The SBG transition seemed incredibly grim for the future quality of the company. Most people are wont to shirk the creative responsibility in that era—and to an extent I find that to be a very plausible circumstance, even if it is a bit paradoxical. Considering the lack of cohesion, vision, and forethought in the developing stages of ROH TV, it seems very likely that most good ideas were scotched by curmudgeony, pennywise decision makers and that the quotient that did manage to eke through any production meetings were underthought—probably the result of stultified creativity after the pass through many filters.

2010 was a really great year for ROH (their best in quite a while now), but much of 2011-2013 can be described as disconcerting or, worse, an embarrassing example of when “salary men” tinge the structure of passion industries.

I’m not sure how much I can pooh-pooh Jim Cornette directly, but I don’t hold back any malice when I discuss the Cornette/early SBG era in general. Tripe of a very high order.

[classic-cabana]

Steen really was the saviour of ROH during those years.

[DXvsNWO1994]

I had been watching the HDNet show on & off when it started in 2009, but the Fall of 2010 was when I really started getting into ROH. Looking back on it, that period from the Summer of 2010 through the Summer of 2011 was actually a great period, in terms of show quality, going from Death Before Dishonor VIII (and maybe a few DVD shows prior to this) to Best In The World 2011. All of the major shows in that period were just so great. Even the worst major show of that period (probably the 9th Anniversary Show) was still a very good show.

With that in mind, it's really fascinating to hear the condition that ROH was in during that period, and that it could have easily ended right as I was getting into the product. While Cornette's run with creative was not good, he does deserve credit for helping to broker the deal between ROH & SBG.

[Burnside]

I agree the first six months of 2011 were great.

It hit a wall right after BITW 2011. Which is exactly when Cornette was given the book. It's definitely unfair to lay all the blame at his feet as there were extenuating circumstances and it's not like Delirious was disagreeing with Cornette on stuff either. But still, he booked a lot of bad stuff.

[Wilson]

You could say that all three major companies in North America had barn-burner portions in 2011. However, all three also shared the suffered the vicissitudes of maintaining an interesting wrestling product.

But while we’re on this train of thought, boy oh boy did that regime kill the entire ROH main event scene by the end of 2011. I know they had two profile wrestlers leaving, Generico had been given notice, and Steen was stuck in booking purgatory (due to an angle), but still: Final Battle 2011: yeesh.

[Burnside]

It was a mistake to go back to Davey/Eddie for FB 11 and even more of a mistake to do it with the same face vs face dynamic, and even more of a mistake to make Dan Severn a focal point.

Losing Daniels and the Kings of Wrestling mid-year was also tough as those acts were very key.

[supersonic]

I loved the "Cornette Era." It was a fun product to follow along with both in the ring and behind the scenes. Not everything hit, and some thing's didn't fit in Ring of Honor, but I really enjoyed the feuds. I felt that most of them were built really well and all had a good lead up to the iPPV's. Talent was built really well, and I even really enjoyed Mondo's rise. Mondo has a lot of passion, and he might be from another planet, but dude loves wrestling and it showed in his spotlight times. Maybe he's not a traditional Ring of Honor guy, but Mondo was leaving everything out there to get over and I respected that.

Anyway, I really miss the Cornette Era. Even with the match quality being as good as it is now, I'm really turned off by the current storylines. Cornette had to go. It had to happen. He was probably going to kill himself or someone else before long. I look back at it as an exciting and very short period of time.

Watch the Sapolsky era. April 2004 to December 2008 would be my suggestion as it involves storylines, actual buildups for title matches and feud-enders, plus amazing match quality of a different variety. The real peak is September 2005 to September 2006 due to all the historic matches plus ROH vs. CZW.

[classic-cabana]

I loved the "Cornette Era." It was a fun product to follow along with both in the ring and behind the scenes. Not everything hit, and some thing's didn't fit in Ring of Honor, but I really enjoyed the feuds. I felt that most of them were built really well and all had a good lead up to the iPPV's. Talent was built really well, and I even really enjoyed Mondo's rise. Mondo has a lot of passion, and he might be from another planet, but dude loves wrestling and it showed in his spotlight times. Maybe he's not a traditional Ring of Honor guy, but Mondo was leaving everything out there to get over and I respected that.

Anyway, I really miss the Cornette Era. Even with the match quality being as good as it is now, I'm really turned off by the current storylines. Cornette had to go. It had to happen. He was probably going to kill himself or someone else before long. I look back at it as an exciting and very short period of time.

Watch the Sapolsky era. April 2004 to December 2008 would be my suggestion as it involves storylines, actual buildups for title matches and feud-enders, plus amazing match quality of a different variety. The real peak is September 2005 to September 2006 due to all the historic matches plus ROH vs. CZW.

Im re-watching every ROH show in order. Hitting the end of 2005 and the amount of great storylines that are going on (Gen Next v Embassy, Cabana v Homicide, the beginning of historic title reigns) are unreal. You won't find many promotions where so many great angles would run parallel without impacting each other or shows.

For long time ROH fans 2004-07 was an awesome time to be a fan, without doubt my favourite period in wrestling. Thats why some of the stuff we had to endure later on was tough to sit through. Lack of creativity, buzz and the company being so poorly run at times was difficult to watch. Its why moments like the DA announcement are fantastic. ROH has come on leaps and bounds in the last 6 or so years.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

I think Cornette had equally good and bad aspects to his time in ROH. I think the first portion of his time there was really good, but the second part of 2011 and on it seemed like there were very few good new ideas generated and obviously the roster and show quality took a big decline. Whether this was due to Cornette or growing pains with SBG is hard to say, but a lot of it seems like it has to fall on Cornette.

I think what Cornette brought in terms of the TV show (minus production values which weren't his fault) was very good.
I also think that Cornette's outspoken inflammatory nature has harmed him as much as anything. If he wasn't so controversially stubborn and boisterous people would probably have a much better view of him.

[DBSommer]

Actually I generally liked the Davey run (FB 11 of course being the notable exception). Also agreed he had to drop it the way he did at that point. The TV show both from a format and storylinewise makes me wince, though. It hurts when you have 2 matches a show and maybe a squash thrown in (think Rhino goring someone a minute in), and Kevin Kelly filling time with 'What's happening in ROH" segment.

Probably the things that I disliked though was WGTT after FB 11, as they just got horrible to watch, and I just couldn't buy ANX as a major force either (I liked their feud with the Briscoes, but that was it). I blame Titus more than King, but that feud just drained the life out of me when any time was spent on it.

The other thing was the great OVW experiment. Not a single one of the guys he used could get over. Not even close (except Samson Walker at Brew City Beatdown).

I don't think everything he touched turned to crap, but it was time for him to go a bit before he actually went.

[trufreedom]

Did he get the reigns in what was a tough time in ROH''s history?

Sure, but he also booked the Headbangers under masks.

Did he have a wealth of knowledge on wrestling and television?

Sure, but he also booked the Headbangers under masks.

Did he help broker the deal that helped Ring of Honor more than anything?

Sure, but he also booked the Headbangers under masks.

I can't get past that. It's like when you think someone is really smart and logical, and than you find out they don't believe in vaccinating children. It just cancels out any smart things they may have done.

[supersonic]

[MooseNugget]

It as a SBG decision to make that show an iPPV.