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Daniels has every right to go through fire as everyone else does in saying that going through fire on a filler title defense is super dumb. I know Daniels loves giving to the business, but doing things like this and going through hell and back at last year's Ladder War are just too much. I think we all want him to draw a line somewhere.

As long as he's protecting his head and neck I'm fine with whatever he wants to do in the ring.

It wasn't filler, it was a Big House un Dallas in Cody's last title defense Before final battle and the last match between them. They wanted to make it a great and memorable match and that's what they do. I don't have a problem with that.

AlexROH wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:08 pm It wasn't filler, it was a Big House un Dallas in Cody's last title defense Before final battle and the last match between them. They wanted to make it a great and memorable match and that's what they do. I don't have a problem with that.

How else could you describe a match that was announced less than a week in advance of an event, where the champion already has a challenger built on a PPV, and in which no one believes in the possibility of a title change? There's nothing wrong with filler title matches, they're probably even necessary. You just don't want to do too many of them, nor do you want to do throwaways (which we haven't seen more of since Austin Aries's second reign).

Daniels is definitely a smart guy, but he's taken some scary bumps in the past (remember that terrifying Ultimate X bump?), and he's at a point where he just doesn't need to be doing them. I'm worried that he might develop a reputation of being a daredevil worker. And who's this spot even for, anyway? Daniels doesn't need to be protected in the finish, his next PPV match is easily the least important on the card.

That said, I also understand if his mentality is, "this is dumb, but I want to do it anyway." He's more than earned his right to pick his literal spots. Like famicommander wrote, I am most concerned about spots that put the neck or head in precarity, or if scenarios like this were orchestrated by a predacious promoter.

Wilson wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:56 pm

AlexROH wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:08 pm It wasn't filler, it was a Big House un Dallas in Cody's last title defense Before final battle and the last match between them. They wanted to make it a great and memorable match and that's what they do. I don't have a problem with that.

How else could you describe a match that was announced less than a week in advance of an event, where the champion already has a challenger built on a PPV, and in which no one believes in the possibility of a title change? There's nothing wrong with filler title matches, they're probably even necessary. You just don't want to do too many of them, nor do you want to do throwaways (which we haven't seen more of since Austin Aries's second reign).

Daniels is definitely a smart guy, but he's taken some scary bumps in the past (remember that terrifying Ultimate X bump?), and he's at a point where he just doesn't need to be doing them. I'm worried that he might develop a reputation of being a daredevil worker.

That said, I also understand if his mentality is, "this is dumb, but I want to do it anyway." He's more than earned his right to pick his literal spots. Like famicommander wrote, I am most concerned about spots that put the neck or head in precarity, or if scenarios like this were orchestrated by a predacious promoter.

I didn't express well. I mean, of course it is a transition defense going into Final Battle, but I don't call these type of matches filler. I mean, filler are random things without a purpose, IMO. This match was the end of one of the "strongest" or most important programms in ROH this year. They wanted to risk everything so people talk about the match and then fans buy the VOD/DVD. For me, it isn't filler. Just like the match Lethal and Cabana had last year in Duluth. Maybe it was "filler" bc it was a VOD show, but while I was watching it, I felt it was something special for ending their feud and both of them worked really hard to make the match meanful and it was one of my favourite matches of the year and one of the most underated matches in 2016. So, if Daniels and Cody wanted to make what could have been seen as a filler match an awesome match that everybody talks about, I understand it.

Different definitions on those things, I guess. I understand that "filler" often connotes negative things (a criticism used a lot on long-running graphic fiction and television), but it's as healthy and expected an aspect of wrestling as squash matches. You can do lots of things with them: give undercard opponents a main event test, create subplots, establish heroes in select markets (Homicide in NY, Cabana in Chicago, Steen in Toronto). ROH used to practically traffic in filler defenses. Realistically, title reigns would be like 5-6 defenses a year if filler defenses were stripped out. Without them, we wouldn't have those underrated Lethal vs. Cabana matches, or from this year, Omega vs. Juice or Okada vs. EVIL.

Just don't hurt yourself doing them. I was using the same argument when Danielson wrestled 40 minutes on a separated shoulder. (To use an analogy--I know Danielson's injury was way more gruesome than Daniels's burns as the result of a finish.)

ROH is starting to do more thing on his website. Appart from faster updates, they are doing a weekly "Top 5". These type of things are cool:

http://www.rohwrestling.com/news/roh-5- ... ompetitors

They don't seem to recognize Danielson's Pure title reign, but it should technically count since he unified it with the World Title.

Ya know that match was also payoff to a feud. The fire, while extreme, was fitting for a ending match though a little blood could have done just as good.

Daniels is insane. Between this and Ladder War, I can't believe the bumps he's willing to take at his age. His promos about Time being his toughest opponent are real for him. That dude may be wrestling in a choreographed match, but is mentally and emotionally fighting Time for real. How many guys take that bump through a flaming table at that age?

Funk

Daniels taking the fire bump is a testament to how much he a) loves what he does and b) is willing to put his body on the line for both the promotion and its fans. Not to mention that was his first ever fire bump to boot, so think about what he may have been thinking in his head from someone who built an entire angle on, "if I don't win the World title my career might as well not have happened", etc. I have no issue with him doing it and respect the hell out of him for it.

I hope if Dalton beats Cody at Final Battle, the first thing he does as champion is challenge Daniels to a title match. It's been all those 3 and Jay Lethal in 2017.

In fact, I wouldn't be shocked right now if the main event of Supercard is Castle vs. Lethal vs. Rhodes vs. Daniels.

Dalton versus Daniels at SCOH would be a cool throwback since Daniels defended versus Castle there last year.

Where the hell are the VODs for the Soaring Eagle Cup and the other recent shows?

At this rate it's going to be really tough to even watch everything before Final Battle.

Perhaps it's related to the new streaming service/website? I hope so, because otherwise it's pretty ridiculous.

dhads7161 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:33 pmFunk

Daniels might be insane, but I am awaiting proof Funk is even human.

famicommander wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:52 pm Where the hell are the VODs for the Soaring Eagle Cup and the other recent shows?

At this rate it's going to be really tough to even watch everything before Final Battle.

Perhaps it's related to the new streaming service/website? I hope so, because otherwise it's pretty ridiculous.

21 days left and they still have to upload Soaring Eagle Cup, Elite and 3 nights of the SOTF. I don't understand why they are so slow this time, makes no sense. I have asked them about this on Twitter on multiple ocasions, but they haven't answered me back.

Haven't seen The Boys with Dalton for a bit.

dhads7161 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:23 am Haven't seen The Boys with Dalton for a bit.

I would've thought we would have seen Cody bring them out during the 3rd night of SOTF when he said he was defending his title. I thought that would've been a cool little thing to do on the last show before Final Battle.

I don't miss The Boys. Castle solo, has a more serious meaning behind his ROH World Title chase.