Random ROH Thoughts Thread

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AlexROH
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

Castle winning is the right move, but maybe they want Cody to be champ until WM Weekend. BC is hot and he's a draw in USA. Dalton could be a top star, but ROH wants to secure some easy money before giving the title to Dalton. I would love to see Dalton winning but hey, ROH has a long story of making faces champion too late, maybe he wins at BITW.

Btw, NJPW is treating the World Title better since the Long Beach shows, feeding Cody with NJPW wrestlers. Having a World Title in the Tokyo Dome (the year theyre doing Omega-Jericho with a lot of eyes on it) is great. Plus, having Ibushi as a challenger means this is seen as an importat match. It's great to see that NJ is finally giving ROH a BIG/long match at WK with an awesome challenger, would I prefer Dalton as champ? Yes, does Cody Rhodes sells more than him? Absolutely.
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AlexROH
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

World Tag League groups. Page and Best Friends in. The tops arent wrestling, maybe this means Omega having a match At FB?

A

Juice/Callihan
SANADA/EVIL
Nagata/Nakanishi
Yujiro/Adam Page
Tenkoji
Chase Owens/Fale
Goto/YOSHI-HASHI

B

KES
War Machine
Cobb/Elgin
Best Friends
Henare/Makabe
Yano/Ishii
GOD
Kitamura/Finlay
ICHIFUJI
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by ICHIFUJI »

World Tag League final is Dec.11 so all could be at FB.

and A also have Suzuki/Iizuka
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Thelone »

AlexROH wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:13 pmCastle winning is the right move, but maybe they want Cody to be champ until WM Weekend. BC is hot and he's a draw in USA.
Oh for fuck's sake, HE'S NOT A DRAW. HE'S STEVIE RAY IN THE NWO BLACK AND WHITE : THE "LEADER" OF THE B-TEAM.

...

The Elite is a draw, not Cody fucking Rhodes and the rest of the B-team scrubs.
Dalton could be a top star, but ROH wants to secure some easy money before giving the title to Dalton.
NOT. A. DRAW.
I would love to see Dalton winning but hey, ROH has a long story of making faces champion too late, maybe he wins at BITW.
Yeah, that sure isn't biting them in the ass right now, so let's keep doing that...
Btw, NJPW is treating the World Title better since the Long Beach shows, feeding Cody with NJPW wrestlers.
Yeah, him having nothing matches against midcarders sure is enthralling. Also that happened after he jobbed out clean to Okada on his first match as champion, so let's not pretend this isn't Gedo playing his cards right.
Having a World Title in the Tokyo Dome (the year theyre doing Omega-Jericho with a lot of eyes on it) is great. Plus, having Ibushi as a challenger means this is seen as an importat match.
At least people in the Dome will give some kind of shit this time, I'll give you that. Well they'll care until Ibushi jobs out clean to Goldust's brother to dead silence after another boring match, but who cares amirite?
It's great to see that NJ is finally giving ROH a BIG/long match at WK with an awesome challenger, would I prefer Dalton as champ? Yes, does Cody Rhodes sells more than him? Absolutely.
Watch people pretend that The Leech is selling out the Dome by himself now.
http://thelone.be/ => My site, which means a bunch of random stuff really.
famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander »

Pretty sure you're wrong, chap.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by WebConn »

per Meltzer, Cody vs Ibushi will be non title if Cody loses at Final Battle.

Look I think that Dalton Castle as Champion would be a smart thing. Look right now the Bullet Club is riding high and are drawing well, but there's going to come a time when Bullet Club has run it's course and ROH is going to find themselves without drawing power if they don't start pushing homegrown guys up to the top of the card. They can always give the belt back to Cody at the Anniversary show if Ticket Sales are low for Nashville, North Carolina and Atlanta aren't up to snuff with Dalton as Champion. At least try it, show the fans you are willing to invest in guys not affiliated with Bullet Club or New Japan.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Wilson »

::Deep breath:: Alright. Some general comments on forum usage.

I want to tackle broader things, but first we're going to look into this post:
Thelone wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:53 am
AlexROH wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:13 pmCastle winning is the right move, but maybe they want Cody to be champ until WM Weekend. BC is hot and he's a draw in USA.
Oh for fuck's sake, HE'S NOT A DRAW. HE'S STEVIE RAY IN THE NWO BLACK AND WHITE : THE "LEADER" OF THE B-TEAM.

...

The Elite is a draw, not Cody fucking Rhodes and the rest of the B-team scrubs.
Dalton could be a top star, but ROH wants to secure some easy money before giving the title to Dalton.
NOT. A. DRAW.
I would love to see Dalton winning but hey, ROH has a long story of making faces champion too late, maybe he wins at BITW.
Yeah, that sure isn't biting them in the ass right now, so let's keep doing that...
Btw, NJPW is treating the World Title better since the Long Beach shows, feeding Cody with NJPW wrestlers.
Yeah, him having nothing matches against midcarders sure is enthralling. Also that happened after he jobbed out clean to Okada on his first match as champion, so let's not pretend this isn't Gedo playing his cards right.
Having a World Title in the Tokyo Dome (the year theyre doing Omega-Jericho with a lot of eyes on it) is great. Plus, having Ibushi as a challenger means this is seen as an importat match.
At least people in the Dome will give some kind of shit this time, I'll give you that. Well they'll care until Ibushi jobs out clean to Goldust's brother to dead silence after another boring match, but who cares amirite?
It's great to see that NJ is finally giving ROH a BIG/long match at WK with an awesome challenger, would I prefer Dalton as champ? Yes, does Cody Rhodes sells more than him? Absolutely.
Watch people pretend that The Leech is selling out the Dome by himself now.
So, for those unacquainted, Thelone is a user here that tends to post facetiously. He uses this posting format in the Spoilers section of the board to a pretty amusing effect. In those particular instances, his ironic trolling is being pointed at a more authoritative, broader power, which would be ROH and their creative tendencies. Doing that would be falling in line with the internet's grand old tradition of shitposting, which I am not opposed to (actually, sometimes I find myself partaking in it).

Where it has deleterious effect is when communicating about or to another user on the board. Caps locking, deliberately leveraging swear-words, and glib jabs being used in such a way begs for a written response, but that is hardly an option when the response bears so many directions, and contains many statements that could perhaps feel misleading yet are unfalsifiable. These are legitimate trolling tactics. If AlexROH would respond it would ensure a great deal of elliptical squabbling, which in turn leads threads being closed, because who can deal with that. I've been reading Thelone for a while here, and though I don't think he is an out-and-out troll (if I did, I would be much swifter in this message), it's best we all recognize all these old ill-favored internet tactics so we don't use them in our threads.

To add to all this, AlexROH is a committed user on the board, taking time to post reviews, podcasts, interviews, and up-to-the minute updates from media. He is also in the pro wrestling coverage industry, which should at least give him grounds for the most basic amount of decency when exchanging with him.

All this is to say that posts have been somewhat escalatory recently, and it becomes difficult to quash once that language starts to gather momentum. Before you post, always keep these questions in your mind: What has already been said about this topic? Am I the right person to express this? Who might this message affect? Is this chic edgelording, or am I trolling another human being that also happens to be in the small circle interested in ROH discourse?

If for little else, let's all try to keep it real between us and everyone who writes here because, and let this be your biggest takeway, Forum Beef is the Weakest Shit.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Wilson »

The Dragon Saga wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:30 pm ROH has repeatedly advertised matches in its history with a title on the line and then the title switches hands before said match.

This means nothing for the result of Final Battle. Literally, zero.
New Japan doesn't tend to change its advertised match. Cody holding the belt is very particular messaging. Chances just seem very high that Cody will retain at Final Battle. Cody/Ibushi would be an awkward story to tell as non-title: Ibushi winning would suggest that he would wrestle Kenny soon after (and that is among NJPW's biggest matches, so it would be to early to present this story) or Cody winning to set up a redemption angle for Ibushi (which is plausible, but still seems unlikely a talent they allegedly see drawing potential in). It's a pretty unclean match without the title stipulation.

More importantly, Cody/Ibushi for the title just seems like the match NJPW is aiming for, and, in this partnership, what they want, they get.
Thelone wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:53 am Oh for fuck's sake, HE'S NOT A DRAW. HE'S STEVIE RAY IN THE NWO BLACK AND WHITE : THE "LEADER" OF THE B-TEAM.

...

The Elite is a draw, not Cody fucking Rhodes and the rest of the B-team scrubs.
Now my turn to shitpost. While Cody being the B champion has been on my mind for a while, I have been thinking more recently how this has lead ROH to become more and more the pre-ordained NJPW Jr., or NJPW Thunder/NJPW Smackdown. When ROH tells us that the NJPW stars are actually the most important stars, it makes it extremely difficult to believe the storytelling of the ROH-essential talent is meaningful or consequential, even when enough of the story is there like in the Kenny King narrative. Cody being champion, outside what he brings of his own talent, feels like Sheamus or Sid Vicious holding the belt because NJPW has told us that Cody is not the end-all, be-all singles wrestler, repeatedly. And with ROH doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on these cross-promotional tours on the precipice of the NJPW US territory, ROH is quickly approaching NJPW-5 Live.

I am almost sick of harping on the notion, but ROH is just developing into a New Japan also-ran circuit, coterminous of the same fanbase that see nakedly the dependency and power between the two companies.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

I said it in earlier post. ROH is now a bottom line business. As much as it pains me to say this, but my gut is telling me that Cody retains in some heelish fashion at Final Battle. Cody draws, ergo Delirious keeps the belt on him. I think the bigger picture is to see how much money they can draw from a prolonged chase with Castle. I have gotten tired of Castle's act, but would be fine with him as champion because he's not Cody.

Ibushi is a safe opponent for Cody, as he can cheat to win with Bullet Club tactics and neither guy gets hurt with the outcome.

Cody is over with the ROH masses because they have been programmed to. His title defenses have fallen in the range from shit to woefully average at best. For the life of me I can't figure out why the ROH fanbase are accepting of mediocrity, but they have and this is where we are at.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Thelone wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:08 pm BUT THE PRESTIGE OF WORKING THOSE MATCHES AT THE DOME IN FRONT OF A DISINTERESTED CROWD!!!
And how else will ROH get their title over in Japan if not by having it defended third on the card in a twelve minute match?
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

The Dragon Saga wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:30 pm ROH has repeatedly advertised matches in its history with a title on the line and then the title switches hands before said match.

This means nothing for the result of Final Battle. Literally, zero.
But this isn't ROH advertising this. It's New Japan. And as TNA has found out the hard way, Japanese crowds don't respond well to that sort of thing.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Wilson wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:26 pm
monster mafia wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:06 am fuck tna
Between this and yesterday's Batista thread, I'm worried that I time warped into 2007. Punching down something while its at its most vulnerable is as toothless as anything I can imagine. Really, I just have sympathy for those involved with Impact/TNAright now. Apparently, the shows are still managing to be okay, despite all their troubles.
And shows like BFG show you exactly why no one will give it a chance even if the TV show isn't terrible. When it comes time for the big pay-off, they always go back to overbooked bullsh*t.
Also... what kind of morons have Eddie Edwards, James Storm, Matt Sydal, Trevor Lee, Alberto Del Rio, Johnny Mundo, and El Hijo de Phantasma on their roster, then bring in Taiji Ishimori... and book him in against Tyson Dux in a match that goes less than five minutes?
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander »

The kind of company that has to pay people to sit through their TV tapings, perhaps?
http://wrestlingnews.co/impact-wrestlin ... v-tapings/
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm I said it in earlier post. ROH is now a bottom line business. As much as it pains me to say this, but my gut is telling me that Cody retains in some heelish fashion at Final Battle. Cody draws, ergo Delirious keeps the belt on him. I think the bigger picture is to see how much money they can draw from a prolonged chase with Castle. I have gotten tired of Castle's act, but would be fine with him as champion because he's not Cody.

Ibushi is a safe opponent for Cody, as he can cheat to win with Bullet Club tactics and neither guy gets hurt with the outcome.

Cody is over with the ROH masses because they have been programmed to. His title defenses have fallen in the range from shit to woefully average at best. For the life of me I can't figure out why the ROH fanbase are accepting of mediocrity, but they have and this is where we are at.
This is the thing that bugs me the most. It really feels like this all came out of nowhere. Sure, heels used to get cheered, but it's like the very moment that they did that Bullet Club invasion in Chicago, somehow the falls all got replaced, too, and the crowds just started accepting whatever silly (non-Kevin Sullivan-involving) bullsh*t the wrestlers and booker decide to do. ROH has become a bottom-line business, yes, but when did the fanbase change to the point where what is best for the bottom line is mediocre wrestling with bullsh*t antics in every match was opposed to quality wrestling and storytelling?
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:24 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm I said it in earlier post. ROH is now a bottom line business. As much as it pains me to say this, but my gut is telling me that Cody retains in some heelish fashion at Final Battle. Cody draws, ergo Delirious keeps the belt on him. I think the bigger picture is to see how much money they can draw from a prolonged chase with Castle. I have gotten tired of Castle's act, but would be fine with him as champion because he's not Cody.

Ibushi is a safe opponent for Cody, as he can cheat to win with Bullet Club tactics and neither guy gets hurt with the outcome.

Cody is over with the ROH masses because they have been programmed to. His title defenses have fallen in the range from shit to woefully average at best. For the life of me I can't figure out why the ROH fanbase are accepting of mediocrity, but they have and this is where we are at.
This is the thing that bugs me the most. It really feels like this all came out of nowhere. Sure, heels used to get cheered, but it's like the very moment that they did that Bullet Club invasion in Chicago, somehow the falls all got replaced, too, and the crowds just started accepting whatever silly (non-Kevin Sullivan-involving) bullsh*t the wrestlers and booker decide to do. ROH has become a bottom-line business, yes, but when did the fanbase change to the point where what is best for the bottom line is mediocre wrestling with bullsh*t antics in every match was opposed to quality wrestling and storytelling?
Yeah man, we are on the same page. What is really odd is that for the most part, the TV show has been quite good lately and has abstained from that for the most part. I am behind in my viewing but the matches have been straightforward. So then it begs the question, are you giving new viewers a false impression of the product? It's a schizophrenic presentation of the product. It's almost like the in ring antics are an amalgam of PWG with NJPW blatant interference booking shortcuts... which is fine for those respective promotions, but the ROH style is what? I couldn't tell you. And the fans cheer this shit, but for how long? I like PWG because it's PWG. I like NJPW because it's NJPW. ROH has no identity.

You point to the Chicago show as the impetus for this and you would be correct. But Cody beating Daniels really kicked this to whole other level of absurdity. One that I think is just the beginning. Straightforward wrestling is going by the wayside and I don't think the suits making a profit, Delirious having job security, or the wrestlers with the clout in back really give a fuck.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by kovs27 »

I honestly think that if Cody wasn't in Bullet Club the fans would have booed him out of the company by now. When I saw him in Philly last year at the tv taping after Final Battle he got a mixed reaction, cut a heel promo and got booed by everyone. When I saw him main event in New York for War of the Worlds he was more popular than Lethal or Daniels. It was even worse the next night in Philly. The only difference was he put a Bullet Club shirt on. Philadelphia is a weird city where they seem to cheer a person one show and then boo him the next time around. After a couple years of going to shows there I haven't figured them out yet. New York is a Bullet Club town. I think they may have cheered Kazarian when he was in Bullet Club for that short period of time.

Man I hope they don't fuck Dalton and have him lose to Cody. Ugh.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by dhads7161 »

To me there are just more options for challengers with Cody. With Dalton who is there really? More matches with Cody, Daniels, Jay Briscoe, maybe Hangman, and maybe Silas Young. Cody can pretty much defend against anyone.

Now that we know Jericho is working WK, I am convinced ROH is or possibly has worked out a deal with him and they'll be working towards Cody vs. Jericho at SCOH.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by King of Indy Style »

Cody vs. Jericho sounds like a match that would open Raw's second hour, not be a top match for a SCOH. I have absolutely no interest in seeing Chris Jericho in ROH. Honestly, I don't have any interest in Jericho vs. Omega, either.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

Confirmed for the World Tag League Finals (December 11th):

- The Young Bucks & Kenny Omega vs Roppongi 3K & Rocky Romero

- Cody & Marty Scurll vs Kota Ibushi & KUSHIDA
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by WebConn »

Will Cody vs Jericho really sell 8,000 tickets?
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