Random ROH Thoughts Thread

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trufreedom
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by trufreedom »

Random ROH Thought #3000 goes to Trufreedom.

I don't like what's happened to the ROH world title under Delirious. It used to have such a respectable lineage, with so few transitional champions or any other kind of Ass-Hattery. Than Jay Briscoe vacates. Than Elgin's reign gets cut short. Than with Cole's second win, now the old feather-in-the-cap of being a two-time champ doesn't have nearly the same panache. Than whatever the fuck happened with putting the title on O'Reilly. Than we get a third time champ in Adam Cole for all of Nine Seconds.

... I don't know, it said Random Thoughts on the title.
King of Indy Style
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by King of Indy Style »

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I really don't think most of that was Delirious' fault. I really don't remember if the Briscoe injury was kayfabe or not, so I can't comment. Elgin got fucked at the border so he needed to drop the title. With Cole's second, it made sense since he and Jay Lethal had a genuinely interesting feud, and what, Lethal held the title for 16 months or something? O'Reilly, yeah. That fuckup is on Delirious, absolutely no question. And Cole's third reign, while transitional was a direct cause of Delirious's fuckup with O'Reilly. And plus, Cole is seemingly one foot out the door anyway, so they had to get it off of him before/at Supercard, and they did it with a pretty awesome story at the 15th. Idk, you can blame Delirious for a lot of stupid shit, I don't really think the title has been all his fault (O'Reilly not included)
The Dragon Saga
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by The Dragon Saga »

In fairness, you forgot to mention that Briscoe's second reign was pretty good and featured a pretty good feud with Adam Cole. You also left out Jay Lethal who I think was a great World Champion and they can easily put the belt back on whenever they need him. I still think its overall view in the wrestling world is pretty high. After the IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Championships and the WWE Championship, ROH World Championship is next for me.
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jordidebaas
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by jordidebaas »

trufreedom wrote:Random ROH Thought #3000 goes to Trufreedom.
It was actually no. 3001
I was in the front line when we battled page 15
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AlexROH
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

How to destroy your career in less than 6 months aka Colby Corino. I don't know why he has done all this bullshit having a contract with NJPW for going to their Dojo (Info courtesy of Pro Wrestling Sheet):
Alachua County Jail officials tell us Corino was taken into custody in Florida today around 2:30 pm after he was busted for petty theft and shoplifting. No further details were made available at this time.

Petty theft in Florida means the goods stolen were under $300.

As we previously reported, Colby was arrested in December of last year after he was found unconscious in his home with multiple types of drugs. He vowed to get clean afterward.

Coincidentally, Colby had initially been booked to wrestle Rude Boy Riley tonight — who was arrested this morning on allegations of child pornography.
JTCole
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by JTCole »

AlexROH wrote:How to destroy your career in less than 6 months aka Colby Corino. I don't know why he has done all this bullshit having a contract with NJPW for going to their Dojo (Info courtesy of Pro Wrestling Sheet):
Alachua County Jail officials tell us Corino was taken into custody in Florida today around 2:30 pm after he was busted for petty theft and shoplifting. No further details were made available at this time.

Petty theft in Florida means the goods stolen were under $300.

As we previously reported, Colby was arrested in December of last year after he was found unconscious in his home with multiple types of drugs. He vowed to get clean afterward.

Coincidentally, Colby had initially been booked to wrestle Rude Boy Riley tonight — who was arrested this morning on allegations of child pornography.
In fairness Rude Boy is a lot worse off.
Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

trufreedom wrote:Random ROH Thought #3000 goes to Trufreedom.

I don't like what's happened to the ROH world title under Delirious. It used to have such a respectable lineage, with so few transitional champions or any other kind of Ass-Hattery. Than Jay Briscoe vacates. Than Elgin's reign gets cut short. Than with Cole's second win, now the old feather-in-the-cap of being a two-time champ doesn't have nearly the same panache. Than whatever the fuck happened with putting the title on O'Reilly. Than we get a third time champ in Adam Cole for all of Nine Seconds.

... I don't know, it said Random Thoughts on the title.
On Jay vacating the title... if it were up to me I probably wouldn't have done it, but in hindsight I think the big mistake that was made with it actually happened at Death Before Dishonor XI. The whole set-up for their feud kind of loses something to me once Jay hands over the belt. I think it would have been better to have Cole cheat to win the title match and then have Briscoe refuse to hand the belt over to him due to this dishonorable conduct. Cole winning clean certainly makes him a more legitimate champion, but at the same time, if you're trying to build to the idea that he isn't really the champion because he never beat Briscoe for the belt, I think the idea that Cole is also an unworthy champion adds an extra dimension to it.
Elgin's reign getting cut short wasn't good and definitely hurt Elgin. In all subsequent reigns (aside from Kyle's) I think the issue has been a lack of title defenses that stem from actual stories. It felt like unless it was a major show the champ either wasn't defending the title at all or there was a totally random "winner gets a title shot later tonight" match on the card that made it impossible for anyone to think to their was a chance the title would change hands. This changed a bit with Cole's second title reign but still could have been handled a bit better. As for everything since then... yeah. These title reigns are WAY too short and the belt is being passed back and forth WAY too often. There is absolutely no excuse for what they did to Kyle. None at all.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

King of Indy Style wrote:I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I really don't think most of that was Delirious' fault. I really don't remember if the Briscoe injury was kayfabe or not, so I can't comment. Elgin got fucked at the border so he needed to drop the title. With Cole's second, it made sense since he and Jay Lethal had a genuinely interesting feud, and what, Lethal held the title for 16 months or something? O'Reilly, yeah. That fuckup is on Delirious, absolutely no question. And Cole's third reign, while transitional was a direct cause of Delirious's fuckup with O'Reilly. And plus, Cole is seemingly one foot out the door anyway, so they had to get it off of him before/at Supercard, and they did it with a pretty awesome story at the 15th. Idk, you can blame Delirious for a lot of stupid shit, I don't really think the title has been all his fault (O'Reilly not included)
The Elgin title loss was done because they were angry at him for losing clean to Trevor Lee in BOLA. The border thing only happened after the fact, and it just turned out to be lucky that ROH had decided to take the title off of him. If I recall correctly Cole was supposed to win the belt from Briscoe at Final Battle but was going to need surgery so they didn't do that change, either, and it also threw a wrench into the next planned title change was Cole dropping it to AJ at the Anniversary Show.
Now, with that being said... what Delirious failed to do was to come up with things to fill in. If he had some grand plans for these guys as champions that didn't work out, it's his job to make a new plan. Instead all we got were brief sketches of plans that resulted in the title picture feeling very cold for months on end aside from the biggest of PPVs.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

The Dragon Saga wrote:In fairness, you forgot to mention that Briscoe's second reign was pretty good and featured a pretty good feud with Adam Cole. You also left out Jay Lethal who I think was a great World Champion and they can easily put the belt back on whenever they need him. I still think its overall view in the wrestling world is pretty high. After the IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Championships and the WWE Championship, ROH World Championship is next for me.
Briscoe's second run only had the Final Battle match with Cole. The main thrust of that feud took place during Cole's run.
As for Lethal, I just don't see how you can say that a guy who defended the title a grand total of four times on ROH shows in his first six months as champion is a great champion. Yeah, Lethal had a bunch of title defenses by the end, but almost a third of his title defenses took place outside of ROH with no ROH build of any sort (and the Kojima defense could easily fit into this category as well), of the remaining defenses a good chunk of them were guys being assigned title shots for basically no reason and where no one thought there was even a snowball's chance in hell of him losing. By my count, of Lethal's 28 defenses, in only 11 of them was there any way that anyone thought Lethal had a snowball's chance in hell of losing the title (and that's being generous and counting the Lio Rush defense, both Roddy defenses, and the second defenses against both Kyle and Cabana- i.e. defenses that took place after it became clear that Cole was going to be the one to take the belt from him). And keep in mind that this was during a period where ROH was putting on more shows than they ever had before.
That is not a great ROH World Champion to me. The ROH World Title was built on guys defending it as often as possible and in matches where you actually thought the belt might change hands. Joe, Aries (both reigns), Punk, Dragon, Nigel, Tyler, Roddy, Steen, Cole (first reign), and even XAVIER all had multiple hot challengers chasing them at the same time, and you could make the case that Cole's other reigns and Morishima did, too, (especially if you want to combine Cole's 2nd and 3rd together). Lethal came nowhere close to having that sort of feeling. I'll agree that it helped solidify him as a top guy simply because he was on top for so long and was delivering when given the chance, but his reign (nor any of Jay Briscoe's) was not booked in such a way for him to be considered a great ROH World Champion.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Big Red Machine wrote:
The Dragon Saga wrote:In fairness, you forgot to mention that Briscoe's second reign was pretty good and featured a pretty good feud with Adam Cole. You also left out Jay Lethal who I think was a great World Champion and they can easily put the belt back on whenever they need him. I still think its overall view in the wrestling world is pretty high. After the IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Championships and the WWE Championship, ROH World Championship is next for me.
Briscoe's second run only had the Final Battle match with Cole. The main thrust of that feud took place during Cole's run.
As for Lethal, I just don't see how you can say that a guy who defended the title a grand total of four times on ROH shows in his first six months as champion is a great champion. Yeah, Lethal had a bunch of title defenses by the end, but almost a third of his title defenses took place outside of ROH with no ROH build of any sort (and the Kojima defense could easily fit into this category as well), of the remaining defenses a good chunk of them were guys being assigned title shots for basically no reason and where no one thought there was even a snowball's chance in hell of him losing. By my count, of Lethal's 28 defenses, in only 11 of them was there any way that anyone thought Lethal had a snowball's chance in hell of losing the title (and that's being generous and counting the Lio Rush defense, both Roddy defenses, and the second defenses against both Kyle and Cabana- i.e. defenses that took place after it became clear that Cole was going to be the one to take the belt from him). And keep in mind that this was during a period where ROH was putting on more shows than they ever had before.
That is not a great ROH World Champion to me. The ROH World Title was built on guys defending it as often as possible and in matches where you actually thought the belt might change hands. Joe, Aries (both reigns), Punk, Dragon, Nigel, Tyler, Roddy, Steen, Cole (first reign), and even XAVIER all had multiple hot challengers chasing them at the same time, and you could make the case that Cole's other reigns and Morishima did, too, (especially if you want to combine Cole's 2nd and 3rd together). Lethal came nowhere close to having that sort of feeling. I'll agree that it helped solidify him as a top guy simply because he was on top for so long and was delivering when given the chance, but his reign (nor any of Jay Briscoe's) was not booked in such a way for him to be considered a great ROH World Champion.
Yeah, I will agree with everything you said and more. I thought Lethal's title reign was monotonous and filled with very few matches worthy of World Championship material. Not entirely his fault though, as Big Red Machine stated, the booking contributed to this greatly. I am confounded as to how Lethal's TV title reign and subsequent chase of the World title was compelling and then Delirious took a shit on him when it came to booking him as champ.

The O'Reilly title change was just fucking dumb. They should have just kept the title on Cole. None of this shit with the World title makes any sense, and this is coming from a guy who clamored for Daniels to win the title.
Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
The Dragon Saga wrote:In fairness, you forgot to mention that Briscoe's second reign was pretty good and featured a pretty good feud with Adam Cole. You also left out Jay Lethal who I think was a great World Champion and they can easily put the belt back on whenever they need him. I still think its overall view in the wrestling world is pretty high. After the IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Championships and the WWE Championship, ROH World Championship is next for me.
Briscoe's second run only had the Final Battle match with Cole. The main thrust of that feud took place during Cole's run.
As for Lethal, I just don't see how you can say that a guy who defended the title a grand total of four times on ROH shows in his first six months as champion is a great champion. Yeah, Lethal had a bunch of title defenses by the end, but almost a third of his title defenses took place outside of ROH with no ROH build of any sort (and the Kojima defense could easily fit into this category as well), of the remaining defenses a good chunk of them were guys being assigned title shots for basically no reason and where no one thought there was even a snowball's chance in hell of him losing. By my count, of Lethal's 28 defenses, in only 11 of them was there any way that anyone thought Lethal had a snowball's chance in hell of losing the title (and that's being generous and counting the Lio Rush defense, both Roddy defenses, and the second defenses against both Kyle and Cabana- i.e. defenses that took place after it became clear that Cole was going to be the one to take the belt from him). And keep in mind that this was during a period where ROH was putting on more shows than they ever had before.
That is not a great ROH World Champion to me. The ROH World Title was built on guys defending it as often as possible and in matches where you actually thought the belt might change hands. Joe, Aries (both reigns), Punk, Dragon, Nigel, Tyler, Roddy, Steen, Cole (first reign), and even XAVIER all had multiple hot challengers chasing them at the same time, and you could make the case that Cole's other reigns and Morishima did, too, (especially if you want to combine Cole's 2nd and 3rd together). Lethal came nowhere close to having that sort of feeling. I'll agree that it helped solidify him as a top guy simply because he was on top for so long and was delivering when given the chance, but his reign (nor any of Jay Briscoe's) was not booked in such a way for him to be considered a great ROH World Champion.
Yeah, I will agree with everything you said and more. I thought Lethal's title reign was monotonous and filled with very few matches worthy of World Championship material. Not entirely his fault though, as Big Red Machine stated, the booking contributed to this greatly. I am confounded as to how Lethal's TV title reign and subsequent chase of the World title was compelling and then Delirious took a shit on him when it came to booking him as champ.

The O'Reilly title change was just fucking dumb. They should have just kept the title on Cole. None of this shit with the World title makes any sense, and this is coming from a guy who clamored for Daniels to win the title.
In hindsight, Lethal's TV Title reign wasn't so well-booked either. I mean... it was mostly fine (aside from the ending), but, in hindsight, the stuff that was actually great about it (basically all of the stuff that involved either Kyle O'Reilly or Jay Briscoe) all had a lot more to do with the ROH World Title than it did the TV Title. Once that build started, Lethal's TV Title reign also wound up becoming a bunch of random title shots either for non-roster guys (Liger, Naito, Walker) or the same sort of "winner gets a title shot later tonight" situations.

The Kyle thing continues to confound me. There were SOOO many other ways to go with it. Like... if the issue is that he wants to negotiate with WWE then why not give him a short term contract (like, through the Anniversary Show) that explicitly allows him to do so. Or why not just have him lose to Cole, and then Cole can cut promos talking about he ran Kyle out of ROH, and if Kyle does wind up coming back you can have him come back as a deranged extremely violent heel who is obsessed with winning the world title. Or just DON'T PUT THE BELT ON HIM IF HE ISN'T GOING TO BE UNDER CONTRACT.
Last edited by Big Red Machine on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
isles11
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by isles11 »

The Kyle thing continues to confound me. There were SOOO many other ways to go with it. Like... if the issue is that he wants to negotiate with WWE then why not give him a short term contract (like, through the Anniversary Show) that explicitly allows him to do so. Or why not just have him lose to Cole, and then Cole can cut promos talking about he ran Kyle out of ROH, and if Kyle does wind up coming back you can have him come back as a deranged extremely violent heel who is obsessed with winning the world title. Or just DON'T PUT THE BELT ON HIM IF HE ISN'T GOING TO BE UNDER CONTRACT
Here's how I would have handled it, during the match at Final Battle, The Young Bucks come out and attack Kyle, it was no DQ so no need for a ref bump or anything, you can then have Fish and maybe someone else run them off. But Cole picks up the win after that.
Now if Kyle did re-sign he has a claim to a rematch, he could have said something along the lines of that while it was a no DQ match, Cole only won because of his Bullet Club Buddies, and if they weren't there he'd be the Champ.
And since he didn't, just say that after getting screwed out of the title time and time again, he quits.

If he decides to come back, theres plenty of options, including the one BRM mentioned above.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by monster mafia »

cary with some familiar faces

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The Dragon Saga
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by The Dragon Saga »

If Low Ki returned I'd lose my shit. He's the one guy who doesn't seem to be given a second chance. Granted, hes burnt multiple bridges, he's technically a pyromaniac, but still, I'd take him just for that one pop on the return.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

ROH just announced:

30% OFF ALL CLEARANCE MERCHANDISE IN THE ROH PRO SHOP !

I've seen that both Michael Elgin's compilation are on the sale, would you recomend me both compilations? Just one of them? None? hahah
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by christopherclinton55 »

https://mobile.twitter.com/KungFu_Grip/ ... 6880248833 If this is true no wonder talent is leaving.
BurningHammer
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Per Pwinsider

"The company is developing an over the top service"

I believe this translates to an on Demand service, which if true and I have it right, it's much needed.
Last edited by BurningHammer on Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander »

Are we talking an on demand service for old shows? Or like a monthly subscription for their current shows?

Because with the increased number of VOD/PPV shows these last few years it has become quite expensive if you want to see everything.

And the video bitrate and resolution on the VOD and TV streaming from ROHwrestling.com is unacceptable.

One app/service that addresses all of the above would be a dream come true.
Last edited by famicommander on Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

famicommander wrote:Are we talking an on demand service for old shows? Or like a monthly subscription for their current shows?

Because with the increased number of VOD/PPV shows these last few years it has become quite expensive if go you want to see everything.

And the video bitrate and resolution on the VOD and TV streaming from ROHwrestling.com is unacceptable.

One app/service that addresses all of the above would be a dream coke true.
100% correct. If those issues are corrected it would be a fucking way cool service if Burning Hammer is speculating in the right direction.
BurningHammer
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

famicommander wrote:Are we talking an on demand service for old shows? Or like a monthly subscription for their current shows?

Because with the increased number of VOD/PPV shows these last few years it has become quite expensive if you want to see everything.

And the video bitrate and resolution on the VOD and TV streaming from ROHwrestling.com is unacceptable.

One app/service that addresses all of the above would be a dream come true.
Personally I never find the streaming that bad usually I get HD/720 and that's enough for me.

I imagine both I would guess, although I could see ROH may well making it a larger subscription fee if you want the whole package of older ROH shows included. The thing with the old shows is, although not all, quite a high number are available through the ringside membership so ROH may just leave it as is and consentrate on newer content.

If I were ROH I would relase select older shows or content on the general subscription depending on who the WWE is pushing at the time, releasing Joe vs Kobashi at a time where Joe is receiving a large push would be good idea for them I guess.

Considering the link with the Fite App and the ease of use I would hope they would have created could communication between the developers and people who run it so hopefully an App would be more probable.

This again could just be nonsense as PWI have repeatedly reported that ROH is working on something similar over the last couple of years and yet we haven't even seen an update to the website let alone an on demand service.
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