Random ROH Thoughts Thread

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The Dragon Saga
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by The Dragon Saga » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:16 pm

TYFDK wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:50 pm
monster mafia wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:20 pm
so it was a good thing for roh not taking that floslam deal.
Quite possibly.

One thing that will be interesting to watch for is if this effects WWN's and Gabe's relationship with WWE. If it does, ROH may just become the #1 destination prior to WWE again in that case. I think they'll keep running shows, but obviously it'll be harder to watch again since Flo won't be airing them live and you'll have to pay per show again.
There was never any consideration in my mind that ROH should have agreed to that FloSlam deal. What would have been the point? To make a bit of money? If you look at how many people are attending ROH shows or the business they've conducted this year with name signings or features, like The Hardyz, The Bucks resigning, multiple talents becoming exclusive, Cody signing, even someone like Ray making it his home promotion, ROH didn't need FloSlam's money so that they could be apart of that shitfest of a streaming service.

FloSlam was never going to work. And the minute it failed, was the minute Joe Koff said he wasn't interested in working with them. FloSlam needed one name wrestling promotion to carry that service, one promotion that has enough exposure that would make people want to watch. They never got that. Instead it is a clusterfuck of multiple little known indies with EVOLVE being the most notable promotion, who all want to make some cash because FloSlam for some reason thought that the "die hard wrestling fans" would buy into it.

If you watch these little known indies nowadays, then you're beyond a die hard wrestling fan. Die hard wrestling fans these days have a number of much more easily accessible promotions to watch and can know the ins and outs of the business by simply watching a selection of WWE, ROH, New Japan, LU and even Impact programming.

And also, not quoting him, but if Minoru Suzuki is a New Japan "b or c player" then fuck me. What a b player.
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famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:34 am

Kushida has been at most of the shows this year, that's A level as far as I'm concerned

Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:36 am

I'm not sure how people are using this whole mess to say that ROH did the right thing by not taking the FloSlam deal. From what little I've seen about this so far, the issue seems to be that Gabe and Sal lied about their viewership numbers when negotiating with FloSlam. How does that affect how ROH would have done on FloSlam?

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:51 am

Because clearly these Floslam idiots don't know what they're doing. Their whole business plan seemed to be "get Ring of Honor, use them to get NJPW and CMLL" and when that fell through they gave way too much money to a small time indie without even getting solid buyrates.

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:16 pm

Gabe's email to talent from right before the Floslam stuff broke has leaked out:
Hey everyone,

This is an important email so please read it through.

We are about to enter a transition period. I want to use this weekend to prepare for that. A major part of this will be the in ring work. You are all awesome, obviously, or you wouldn't be booked. However, I want to change some things you do in EVOLVE to make EVOLVE different and also prepare for what's next.

I will explain more in person, but this weekend please concentrate on these things:

-Make every lock up on the show count. I saw Regal last week and he was at BOLA. I was surprised for him to say that he didn't see many good lock ups there. Honestly, he said he barely saw one good lock up. I know this might be surprising, especially since some of you were on the show. This is a major thing. It's about starting your match up with believability. Please let's put on emphasis on lock ups where you fight for position rather than go into a spot.

-Don't look into the floor camera at anytime. This is a Vince/WWE thing. I really don't care if you look into the camera or not, but this is a habit you will have to break as soon as you go to WWE/NXT, so you might as well break it now. I can explain this more in person. It's a huge thing there, so don't discount this.

-Make every kick, strike and chop count. I don't mean go in there and beat each other up. Just don't waste your kicks, strikes, chops and sell it. In addition, consider who your opponent is. If Keith Lee is striking you, sell it bigger than if someone smaller was striking you. Keep the situation and opponent in mind with your selling and how you do kicks, strikes and chops.

-Don't do cool stuff for the sake of cool stuff. Everything should be about winning the match. I'm not saying don't do cool stuff, but don't do it just to do it.

Have it make sense in your match.

-Challenge yourself to break your normal routine of spots. I don't care what match rating you get on Twitter. This is small picture stuff. I want everyone to think big picture and long game. I can explain this better in person.

-I've been traveling with Chris Dickinson a lot lately since we are from the same area now. We have talked about this stuff extensively in the car. I feel he has a good grasp of it and can explain it from a worker's perspective, which I can't. Please get with him on any questions. I've also told Chris to take more of a leadership role and point things out, so please be open to what he has to say. Thank you.

-Some other notes:

-Belltime each night is 8pm. Please be at the venue by 5:30pm.

-Sal is is getting hotel in a little bit. If you are flying in, we'll tell you where to go soon to hang out. Brandon Tolle is arranging all the rides. Please get with him on rides. If you don't hear from us by tonight, let me know.

-Please remember the EVOLVE rules when it comes to:

-No swearing

-Nothing derogatory towards minorities, women, ethnicities or any other groups.

-No piledrivers.neck bumps, apron spots, anything that drops you on your head.

-Nothing hardcore without permission -No unprotected headbutts

-No mic work without permission

-Be super nice to kids

-No guests in your hotel rooms! We are not going to pay for an extra hotel room cause someone is your ride or you are bringing someone along. We arrange three per room. We are not budgeted for more hotel rooms. No one gets added to these rooms. It is for the comfort of everyone in the room.

-I will send out booking info late night. This weekend is going to be mostly about wrestling. We aren't going to go big into storyline stuff or angles during this transition period. I want everyone to really concentrate on their matches, think of the fundamentals and making everything solid and make sense.

-If you need anything call or text me [number redacted]. If you can't reach me and it's an emergency contact Sal at [number redacted].

I look forward to a fun weekend. Thank you, Gabe
Translation: Piss of Vince and we're dead

Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:02 pm

famicommander wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:51 am
Because clearly these Floslam idiots don't know what they're doing. Their whole business plan seemed to be "get Ring of Honor, use them to get NJPW and CMLL" and when that fell through they gave way too much money to a small time indie without even getting solid buyrates.
But if FloSlam would have gotten ROH, they wouldn't have been so desperate as to throw a bunch of money at WWN (& others). This plan of theirs everyone is saying shows bad judgement was the desperate backup plan, not the original idea. They probably would have done a lot better even with just ROH than they did with the WWN promotions and whoever else they had.

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:04 pm

They didn't get ROH, though. Their entire business model hinged on a promotion they couldn't seal a deal with.

And the fact that they gave a large sum to WWNLive without doing due diligence on their buyrates shows that Flosports isn't the kind of company ROH wants to be in charge of its content.

ROHfan2002
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by ROHfan2002 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:14 pm

I think some are being a bit harsh on Evolve here.

For the record, I attended last night's show in Summit, IL. Helluva show from start to finish. Great wrestling. Great talent. Enjoyable without a single borng moment.

I can't speak for other venues, but the facility in Summit is a very nice building. Located in a nice park (we got there early so hung out in the park) in what seems like a good area. Building looks fairly new and was filled with a hot crowd.

The talent was great in the ring, and awesome out of it. Got several pictures of my son with the wrestlers, all of whom were incredibly nice to him and me. Most of the guys, including Stokely, openly thanked me for attending. Every single wrestler and WWN staff we approached was extremely nice and talked with us. IN the two Summit IL events, I have photos of my son with the champions actually holding the Progress Atlas title, the CZW World title, and the Evolve title.

I am a Floslam member (canceled it after this all went down Friday but will have it until period is over) and thought the stream was always very good and the archived material (eventually) perfect for my needs. I hate to see this happen, but if the events are as strong as last night, I'm okay with getting them from WWN Live. I've been to roughly 20 live wrestling events since January 1986, seeing WWF, WCW, ECW, DGUSA, ROH, and now 2 Evolve shows. Nobody does the live experience better than Evolve.

Two quick thoughts to end this.
1. Funny reading this Gabe email, as it says no piledrivers,apron bumps, or neck stuff. In the main event, Tracy Williams piledrives Riddle on the apron right in front of us (front row seats). Riddle also did two or three fisherman busters onto Williams during the match, and a tombstone.
2. Right now it is all he said/she said here. We don't know for sure WWN inflated the numbers. Just because Floslam only had 2000 subscribers does not mean WWN lied about how many people bought their iPPV's. Floslam did a piss poor job of promoting it's service, or Evolve. You could easily have people who use to get shows not wanting to make a monthly commitment. Just because the two numbers are far apart does not mean WWN lied.

ROHfan2002
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by ROHfan2002 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:15 pm

To clarify, the champions let my son hold their belts for the photos. Without being asked too. I think that is cool.

Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:33 pm

famicommander wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:04 pm
They didn't get ROH, though. Their entire business model hinged on a promotion they couldn't seal a deal with.
Which means they were foolish for continuing to pursue this project once ROH turned them down, not that the idea itself was foolish and would have failed if they had been able to get ROH... and even that doesn't prove that it would have been bad for ROH. It's FloSlam coming out in the negative if it fails. ROH would just lose a bonus revenue stream which they would never have had to be able to lose if they turned FloSlam down.
famicommander wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:04 pm
And the fact that they gave a large sum to WWNLive without doing due diligence on their buyrates shows that Flosports isn't the kind of company ROH wants to be in charge of its content.
1. ROH didn't know this at the time.
2. Either way, wouldn't that just have allowed ROH to take advantage of FloSlam's foolishness in the same way that WWN did?

WHG
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by WHG » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:52 pm

The Flo thing seemed shaky from the start. Business history is filled with companies funded by venture capital that go and burn it quickly only to collapse when not being able to turn a profit.

Imagine if ROH had made the Flo deal and now (or even a year from now), a struggling Flo pulls the rug out and can't pay them. Now you've been selling all of your content, plus others, for $20 a month. Where do you go from there? Do you go back to asking for $45 per PPV? They'd have put their whole business model at risk.

While ROH surely would have drawn more subscribers to Flo, I'm still not convinced it'd have been anywhere near enough to justify what they were going to ask for.

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AlexROH
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:45 am

So yeah, Gabe is so desperate that he even shit on one of the websites that has support him the most, Voices of Wrestling, and the only EVOLVE podcast, Everything EVOLVES. This sucks man. Hope he finally go to WWE bc after all this stuff, you cannot thik WWN was the "good" part in these Flo Sports problems.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2017/0 ... in-future/

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm

He threatened to fire people at random until the leaker was revealed.

Very classy move.

Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:52 pm

famicommander wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm
He threatened to fire people at random until the leaker was revealed.

Very classy move.
Yeah. He came off pretty bad here. Sympathetic, but also pretty bad.

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:18 pm

I don't feel bad for him at all if he actually gave false numbers to Flosports. If he did, he's just a common thief.

Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:17 pm

famicommander wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:18 pm
I don't feel bad for him at all if he actually gave false numbers to Flosports. If he did, he's just a common thief.
I mean sympathetic in that someone he trusted clearly gave private information to a reporter, not about the FloSlam thing.

Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:21 am

Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:52 pm
famicommander wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:29 pm
He threatened to fire people at random until the leaker was revealed.

Very classy move.
Yeah. He came off pretty bad here. Sympathetic, but also pretty bad.
My image of Gabe is completely ruined. He's nothing more than a corporate tool. He has, for years, allowed this perception of him being the champion of the Indies. What a bullshitter.

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King of Indy Style
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by King of Indy Style » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:37 am

My thoughts exactly. Gabe's nothing more than a conman that threw independent wrestling under the bus if it meant he could get his lips onto HHH's asscheek. Gabe's nothing more than a sellout.

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:42 am

I think they want us to move this discussion into the other thread, dudes

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TowerOfDoom
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by TowerOfDoom » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:15 pm

I want Flip Gordon and Coast 2 Coast to be the next six man tag champs.

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