Random ROH Thoughts Thread

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The Dragon Saga
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by The Dragon Saga » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:45 pm

Soooo yeah, those things I said about, "if EVOLVE shut down tomorrow, nobody would probably know because nobody would care", well seeing as Flo Slam are suing because Gabe and Sal lied to them about how many people are viewing their iPPV's, seems we might find out sooner than expected if I am right.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:02 pm

The Dragon Saga wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:45 pm
Soooo yeah, those things I said about, "if EVOLVE shut down tomorrow, nobody would probably know because nobody would care", well seeing as Flo Slam are suing because Gabe and Sal lied to them about how many people are viewing their iPPV's, seems we might find out sooner than expected if I am right.
Uh oh.

I thought it was fucking hilarious that WWN was including DVD purchasers in as PPV subscribers, as well as listing names multiple times to inflate the numbers.

The purported countersuit reeks of desperation.

The WWE connection is dead. This doesn't look good for Gabe and the WWN.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:06 pm

According to stats from Similar Web, rohwrestling.com got roughly 19X more visitors than floslam.tv in the last 6 months.

Or, to look at it another way

rohwrestling.com got 28X more visitors than wwnlive.com.

That's about the exact same difference between wwe.com and rohwrestling.com.

Evolve + WWN Live is to ROH as ROH is to WWE.

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The Dragon Saga
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by The Dragon Saga » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:27 pm

Yeah but ROH's main platform of distribution isn't ROHWrestling.com, it's the 49% of the United States its TV show airs in, sometimes multiple times a day or even multiple times a week, that garners - as Meltzer has reported - roughly 500k viewers. So add in that 500k plus cable and satellite pay-per-view exposure and what you have is a much larger difference between the two.

So far it seems like the info we have, EVOLVE shows are watched on average by less than 2,000 people a month. That is the sad reality of EVOLVE.
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AlexROH
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:11 pm

Hey, but EVOLVE had a lot of buzz ahahahahaha.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by kovs27 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:17 am

I just can't wrap my head around how Evolve or any other WWN show could possible make money. The talent is usually quite good but there just isn't enough people there nor people watching on a live stream to justify it. The only thing I thought is Gabe is on WWE payroll or when guys like Dijak or KOR were there they were getting paid next to nothing. Using Keith Lee as an example, I understand going to Evolve and being a singles star from a creative standpoint but how in the world could they offer money even close to ROH without revenue sources even close. If they were fudging numbers to get the money out of Floslam then at least some of this makes sense.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Thelone » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 am

- Renting shitty places for next to nothing
- Renting shitty rings that break every two seconds
- Working the boys to cut their fees for the great opportunity of working for WWE's unofficial feeder fed (PWG does the same just because they're PWG, so that's nothing new)
- Doing double-headers so they cut their fees even more

You can probably break even with a sub-250 house and like 1k VOD buys.
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TYFDK
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by TYFDK » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:45 am

Thelone wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 am
- Renting shitty places for next to nothing
- Renting shitty rings that break every two seconds
- Working the boys to cut their fees for the great opportunity of working for WWE's unofficial feeder fed (PWG does the same just because they're PWG, so that's nothing new)
- Doing double-headers so they cut their fees even more

You can probably break even with a sub-250 house and like 1k VOD buys.
Difference between EVOLVE and PWG though is that guys WANT to work PWG, and will get out of bookings to do so, whereas EVOLVE has contracted wrestlers, who have no choice to work there. Say whatever joke you want about the same for ROH, but PWG is more of a destination than EVOLVE is.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by TYFDK » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:46 am

Also, here's a cool ESPN article about Silas Young:

http://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/2076 ... an-persona

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:50 am

Looks like Floslam isn't going to show tonight's Evolve event at all.

What a disaster.

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Wilson
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Wilson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:16 pm

What a total trainwreck for WWN/FloSlam. Looking at the reports at face value, Gabe and Sal's actions were just ruthlessly appalling. It sours every actor and place in their neck of the industry.
Thelone wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 am
- Renting shitty places for next to nothing
- Renting shitty rings that break every two seconds
- Working the boys to cut their fees for the great opportunity of working for WWE's unofficial feeder fed (PWG does the same just because they're PWG, so that's nothing new)
- Doing double-headers so they cut their fees even more

You can probably break even with a sub-250 house and like 1k VOD buys.
With the new partner, most people were hopeful that the means to an end financial precarity would be given a rest. At the very least, the first two items above should have been somewhat resolved rather than having an arguably worse year than last. 'Working the boys' in regards to exposure is something the entire business has to get better about.

With WWN, LU, and TNA/Impact/GFW all in terrible trouble as well as the ROH exodus earlier this year, 2017 has been a colossal bummer for the American secondary promotions and the independents (which is not even to talk about the WCPW weirdness from earlier this week). From the worker side, this just seems very scary but maybe an AAW, Beyond, or Glory Pro blow up because of the new pool of accessible talent.
famicommander wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:50 am
Looks like Floslam isn't going to show tonight's Evolve event at all.

What a disaster.
Unreal.

monster mafia
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by monster mafia » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:20 pm

so it was a good thing for roh not taking that floslam deal.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by TYFDK » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:50 pm

monster mafia wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:20 pm
so it was a good thing for roh not taking that floslam deal.
Quite possibly.

One thing that will be interesting to watch for is if this effects WWN's and Gabe's relationship with WWE. If it does, ROH may just become the #1 destination prior to WWE again in that case. I think they'll keep running shows, but obviously it'll be harder to watch again since Flo won't be airing them live and you'll have to pay per show again.

famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:55 pm

I just read elsewhere that Evolve's entrance setup literally fell over about two minutes before bell time tonight.

That's some timely ass symbolism right there.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:18 pm

famicommander wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:50 am
Looks like Floslam isn't going to show tonight's Evolve event at all.

What a disaster.
Uh, yeah. What the fuck did Gabe and Sal think was going to happen when the word countersuit was being thrown around? Once Floslam heard that shit, they probably laughed and really decided to fuck WWN. Anyone remotely interested in the Evolve PPV because of the lawsuit now is not even going to bother with this in the future. Gabe and Sal hanging any hopes on Vince bailing them out are pipedreams. Vince hates lawsuits more than small wrestlers and broken mirrors that he can't stroke himself to when he looks at his own body. Gabe and Sal are a couple of fucking morons.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:22 pm

famicommander wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:55 pm
I just read elsewhere that Evolve's entrance setup literally fell over about two minutes before bell time tonight.

That's some timely ass symbolism right there.
Man, no can write this shit up in a story because no one would believe it. Too funny.

Get out now ZSJ.

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Thelone
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Thelone » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:32 pm

Wilson wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:16 pm
With the new partner, most people were hopeful that the means to an end financial precarity would be given a rest. At the very least, the first two items above should have been somewhat resolved rather than having an arguably worse year than last. 'Working the boys' in regards to exposure is something the entire business has to get better about.
Guess I should have used my patented """ to mean that I was being sarcastic with that one. The WWE connection doesn't seem to be as strong as it was a year or two ago during Evolve's "hot" period. WWE just raided them to beef up 205 Live and NXT to a lesser extent, and hasn't done much with them since then (I guess O'Reilly/Rush/Dijak spending a cup of coffee there could be something, but this ain't much). Hell, Evolve seems to be linked more with NJPW nowadays than WWE, which should a warning sign for ROH by the way.
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famicommander
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by famicommander » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:17 pm

Evolve will be lucky to continue existing at this point. They're no threat to ROH's relationship with NJPW. ROH just rented a 10,000 seat arena, Evolve just got sued by their own iPPV distributor.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by WebConn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:04 pm

The WWE could come along and bail Gabe and Evolve out. The WWN wouldn't be a bad thing for WWE to have some stake in. It could be used as the farm league that people are in before they go to NXT, be a mix of vetarn indie talent, new comers learning the ropes and what not. Have all the shows on the network but have it be a low pressure environment. think it could work.

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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Thelone » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:12 pm

famicommander wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:17 pm
Evolve will be lucky to continue existing at this point. They're no threat to ROH's relationship with NJPW. ROH just rented a 10,000 seat arena, Evolve just got sued by their own iPPV distributor.
Maybe not Evolve, but ROH feels more and more expendable to NJPW as time goes by. They're sending the B or even C-team to work ROH shows nowadays (Omega is almost an anomaly) and very few ROH guys get to work domestic NJPW shows.
WebConn wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:04 pm
The WWE could come along and bail Gabe and Evolve out. The WWN wouldn't be a bad thing for WWE to have some stake in. It could be used as the farm league that people are in before they go to NXT, be a mix of vetarn indie talent, new comers learning the ropes and what not. Have all the shows on the network but have it be a low pressure environment. think it could work.
Why bother? If WWE really wanted their own brand below NXT, they would just create it. Hell, it already exists in the form of the NXT Florida loop where you have mostly PC recruits and the undercard.
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