Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[Wavelet Transform]

A third Briscoes vs. FTR match wouldn't make sense. FTR already has three Ws over Dem Boys by way of the 2 Out of 3 Falls match at DBD.

It would make sense if, as I said, the Briscoes had won the 2/3 falls match at DBD. That would give each team 2 falls over each other w/ FTR’s supercard win. It would also be vastly more interesting and exciting than anything that we’ll actually get on this card.

[DougN]

I'm really not excited for Final Battle at all. DBD had some buzz to it, but Final Battle just feels like a nothing show that's going to be thrown together.

I may be in the minority but I really do not care for Jericho as ROH champ. It seems that I am because most people are praising his matches, but they aren't doing it for me at all. The Ishii match is a perfect example. The crowd was into it, so that's good, but Jericho trading blows with Ishii was so bad. He was so slow with it and they looked like Shane O Mac punches that actually connected. Him getting busted open was awesome and a great visual, but again, he starts trading blows and it's terrible.

I've seen and heard a lot of insiders pushing back on the ROH complaints the last few weeks from Meltzer and Alvarez to SRS to some others. I'm sorry, the ROH product on TV just drags down AEW. It's diluting their own championships to have four of six belts be on the show regularly, and the other two coming up for Battle Of The Belts specials which clearly have made that special irrelevant. Someone made the argument "well, it just doesn't matter because it's all the same product either way." No, it does matter because if/when ROH launches a show, why the hell am I going to watch a new show that's just the same thing as Dynamite and Rampage? I could just as well watch Dark and Dark Elevation. None of this would have mattered if ROH TV had launched in September or earlier. But instead, everything has been drawn out on AEW TV and it's just making the BCC-JAS feud last forever. They have been legit feuding for 5 months now. It's time to give it a rest. Pivot to more Jericho-Garcia stuff and let BCC figure itself outside of it. Hell, do BCC versus House Of Black.

Even Jericho as champ is a really flawed argument. Everyone said "oh, this is so they can get a TV deal with an established star." Yeah, but the problem is that Jericho will still be on Dynamite every single week so what's the point in watching whatever ROH show when I can just see him on Wednesday? If the biggest draw ROH has is going to be on other shows, then ROH is already off to a shaky start that doesn't bode well for a long-term future.

At this point, I would much, much rather Tony Khan just retire the ROH brand. Maybe keep the ROH belt and merge it with the Pure belt and have the ROH belt defended in pure rules for something different. But the TV, tag, women's, and six man have no purpose whatsoever.

The only true value in ROH right now is the tape library for a streaming service. The pro wrestling landscape has shown with NWA and Impact and MLW and others that there's just not room for all these TV shows, especially when there's not much to offer.

[Montana]

They really haven't done anything to build up Final Battle. I guess, TK must have thought Jericho and Claudio would be enough... imagine we'll get some banger last minute matches. Too bad, cause normally Final Battle is the culmination of some lengthy feuds.

I've enjoyed the Jericho storyline, mainly as it's a actually a real storyline in AEW. Plus it's injecting some classic ROH names, around the brand. Probably my favorite angle they've done the last 2-3 months. Claudio challenging was a little bit of a let down. Seems like he's ice cold at the moment, after a hot start in the summer. The Jericho matches, have been pretty good, in my opinion, all things considered. Jericho / Bandido , Ishii , Castle, Danielson have delivered. The colt match was fun, but a little sloppy. Seems like TK is leading up to someone noteworthy to dethrone Jericho; but who knows at this point.

Garcia and Yuta again, feels thrown together. Kinda forgot who between them even had the belt.... so that says something.

Mercedes Martinez and Athena seems to make a lot of sense. Mercedes who i believe has been injured, just is never on TV: so it's hard to be invested.

TK has way too many wrestlers for 3 hours of TV... this is why i hope they either use ROH; or have some developmental brand. Or even just make Dark like an exclusive shows with it owns wrestlers and a belt or two. (I know there's already a million belts) Dark and Elevation as is, just needs to go away. Plus it detracts from the live events. Start with 3 squash matches, OK; not 9!!!

I'm kinda on the fence on purchasing the show. I know it will be a good show, as their PPV deliver, but like 40/50$ is kinda steep, considering likely nothing will follow for a while.

[monster mafia]

ROH Final Battle 2022 so far

ROH World Championship:
Chris Jericho vs. Claudio Castagnoli

ROH Pure Championship Match:
Daniel Garcia vs. Wheeler Yuta

ROH Women’s Championship Match:
Mercedes Martinez vs. Athena

ROH World Television Championship Match:
Samoa Joe vs. Juice Robinson

Shane Taylor & JD Griffey vs. Swerve in our Glory.

[supersonic]

Zero buys.

[DougN]

That's a terrible, terrible line-up.

Like no joke.

I was already unhappy on the Jericho-Claudio rematch, but we're doing Garcia-Yuta again? Mercedes and Athena could be good, but zero build. Juice and Joe could be good, but zero build. And Shane Taylor and JD Griffy? The fuck? Why not just do Swerve In Our Glory vs FTR?

They should have spent the last few weeks building up someone else for Jericho and someone else for Garcia. BCC and JAS is legit a 6 month feud at this point and it really only needed to be a 3 month one.

[supersonic]

This isn’t a left-field prediction. I don’t feel as confident that this’ll happen like I’ve been in the past that others weren’t deducing (ie, Cabana returning on WM32 weekend due to being in the same building via WrestleCon.)

What if Hero returns and plays a part in the main event finish?

[DougN]

Eh. Hero's been gone so long at this point that I don't think a "surprise" return is warranted. I'd much rather them build up his return with vignettes and clips of his career.

Hero's a big deal in the same way Cabana is at this point. It will get a pop, but I don't think it will create any buzz after the fact, as opposed to announcing his return match with someone like Garcia or Yuta.

[Wavelet Transform]

Yep, there aren’t any names left that would generate positive buzz. Comfortably the worst final battle card since 2002. There isn’t time to do much for storylines - I’d just go with a PWG-style card filled with dream matches. Bandido - Takeshita would be cool. Also, why hasn’t OGK continued to try to get their obligated tag title rematch? Easy story that doesn’t require tons of time and would be a great match.

I too dislike the Jericho as champ storyline. I’ve enjoyed the matches and Jericho’s ability to put on so many at his age is incredible. But the storyline is such a lame WWE-style thing to do. Plus, it’s completely directionless and has been for a long time.

[DougN]

I won't go that far. The Final Battle 2019 line-up was pretty bad too. This one might technically be worse, but it's going to be a better wrestling show so that maybe saves it?

My main problem with the Jericho storyline is that it's mostly just fodder to BCC feuding with JAS, which again, has been going on for six months in some fashion. It should have pivoted to Garcia by now OR there should be more Garcia-Jericho stuff to make it interesting. I actually like the concept of Jericho taking on former ROH champs, though I think it got watered down by non-main champs. There were a ton of main champs they could have done without having to do Cabana or Ishii. The Cabana match was a great pop and the Ishii thing got good buzz, but it's a step down from Jericho beating all former world champs.

Jericho faced Bandido, Danielson, Dalton, Claudio (in the 4 way). Look at all these names of people he could legit have matches with right now: Low Ki, Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, Homicide, Davey Richards, Jay Briscoe (banned from TNT/TBS tho), Michael Elgin, Jay Lethal, Christopher Daniels, Matt Taven, Rush. Even if you eliminate the assholes and degenerates (Low Ki, Aries, Elgin), you've still got enough people there to make the storyline matter. You could even throw out Nigel and Jerry Lynn too as a possibility.

The storyline had potential, but it's been squandered mostly because of the JAS-BCC continued feud. And I'm still not sold on Jericho being a good move for ROH in general. You can't tell me that if ROH gets its own TV, that Jericho won't still be on Dynamite most weeks. And if Jericho is on Dynamite, why watch ROH?

[Wavelet Transform]

I won't go that far. The Final Battle 2019 line-up was pretty bad too. This one might technically be worse, but it's going to be a better wrestling show so that maybe saves it?

Perceptions of FB 2019 are unfairly colored by the farcical main event. Outside of that, it’s a great show. There isn’t anything on this year card that’s as good as Lethal / Gresham vs. Briscoes or VE vs. Mexablood. TV title (Shane Taylor vs. Dragon Lee) was also very good and the street fight way over-delivered. The rest of the card was fun and was based on actual storylines, which makes it better than this year’s card for me.

[DougN]

I was talking about the actual line-up. Yeah, the show was fine outside the main event, but on paper, it's not really exciting.

[Montana]

This isn’t a left-field prediction. I don’t feel as confident that this’ll happen like I’ve been in the past that others weren’t deducing (ie, Cabana returning on WM32 weekend due to being in the same building via WrestleCon.)

What if Hero returns and plays a part in the main event finish?

I think Hero will be in AEW/ROH sooner or later... i'm not sure if it's at FInal Battle. TK likes to typically do a big surprise on the shows.

The card is average thus far... with little/no build. I wouldnt be surprised in a banger or two is announced. Samoa Joe vs. Juice Robinson is a little bit of a let down. Better than like Joe vs. Wardlow; but this could have been a good spot for a dream match. We are still getting a FTR tag title match i assume. I assume the Briscoes are still being added.

The Shane Taylor vs. Keith Lee thing was kinda odd. Now it looks like a tag match with Shane and JD Griffey (No clue who he is, but i guess he's been on dark) vs Swerve in our glory. Not sure why it needs to be a tag, but whatever.

Garcia and Yuta is kind of a let down too.. its not like this has been a super hot feud with a big blow off match. Should be a real good match, but hard to be fully invested in it.

[DougN]

Agree with everything too. It's not that Jericho-Claudio and Garcia-Yuta won't be good -- they will, but we've seen it before. It's the same reason people here and on social media were bemoaning the idea of FTR-Briscoes III. It's fine, but it's not marquee. Athena-Mercedes is also fine, but literally neither of them is doing anything right now. Juice vs Joe is a really big WTF match and I would have much rather Joe go up against Wardlow on the PPV for both belts and give you a reason to want to see it as an AEW fan. No tag title match announced yet because they're rushing to FTR-Acclaimed on Wednesday. Briscoes haven't even been announced for anything yet.

ROH's roster page only has 11 people on it. 5 days before the PPV and only 4 of those 11 are announced for the PPV.

I truly feel like it is not this difficult. Tony Khan is just overwhelmed and you can tell because of how defensive he just got over ROH being on AEW TV.

[dhads7161]

Warner Brothers Discovery being behind the Briscoes not being on AEW programming doesn't add up when you remember that Death Before Dishonor was on and Final Battle will be on WBD owned Bleacher Report...you mean to tell me they can't be on a TBS or TNT program but can be on a PPV presented on their website? I think it's Tony Khan, and it's nothing nefarious here, it's him wanting them associated with the ROH brand rather than AEW so he's saving them for when or if he gets a TV avenue for ROH.

[supersonic]

I wouldn’t have them appear on AEW TV until the absolute perfect dream scenario.

Mine: Mystery partners for Punk/FTR against Team BTE in climactic, conclusive War Games match.

[DougN]

There's a big difference between caring if Briscoes are on a PPV through Bleacher Report, or are front and center on a cable TV broadcast that they boast about in press releases and upfronts. That's fine if you want to believe Tony Khan is behind it and not WBD, but that argument of Bleacher Report vs TBS/TNT is shaky.

And for the record, I believe it's the same as the Cabana/Punk thing. I don't think Punk actively asked Tony Khan to move Cabana, but Tony Khan still moved Cabana because of it. I think WBD hasn't said much if anything about the Briscoes, but Tony Khan doesn't want to go down that road after some other controversies (Nick Gage, Brian Kendrick).

Also, if I remember correctly, the Briscoes and Punk don't like each other IRL. Could be wrong though.

[KL_]

Here's Briscoes promo for Final Battle 2022:
https://twitter.com/jaybriscoe84/status ... ml%3Fp%3D1

[DougN]

I'm sorry, this line-up is a let-down. FTR-Briscoes will be great, but there's also no reason for the match. This card is full of rematches and random other matches.

They should have saved Acclaimed v FTR for the PPV, make it winner take all, and just pulled the trigger on FTR.

[Montana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2GT2ORD540
ROH - Final Battle Preview... (Thought they did a really nice job with the package)

A few thoughts....

At this point with the Briscoes... IF/when they ever are on AEW TV; they could make it like a nWo invasion type of angle. Either way, make it count if they do appear on TV. I like SuperSonic's idea, but idk if we ever get that.

In terms of the final battle card, i don't love all the rematches, but still should be a really good show. The matches will deliver. I have to imagine the zero hour card is going to be pretty loaded as well. Sounds like an announcement in terms of a future show will be announced at FB as well.

FTR vs Briscoes will be a brutal climax to their feud. I think at this point, Briscoes have to win right?

Think this would have been a great time to just put together a few dream matches, with no storylines needed. Like mentioned earlier, Samoa Joe vs Bandido.. too easy. Book a rematch between Rush and Brody King... who never really closed out their feud in from Final Battle 2020. Put the Hung Bucks in a random Trios match, etc. Plenty of options at low risk to AEW in my opinion.

I think we'll get the following wrestlers added to zero hour: OGK, Takeshita, Woods/Ness, Colt Cabana,
Would like to see: Tony Deppen , Blake Christian, Alex Zayne, Rhett Titus, AR Fox, Mark Haskins