Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[supersonic]

I'd absolutely make every ROH supercard what Takeover was from 2015-20, with Final Battle even tied to Winter is Coming. Just let it piggyback off of AEW PPVs and don't fool yourselves into thinking it's capable or "deserving" to stand on its own.

[tigermask7.0]

I think your right. No sense holding breathe right now.

They did say that HBO Max and Discovery were merging into a new app in middle of 2023. So I assume that’s AEW’s primary plan, as of now.

I do think AEW will be hurt more this fall with sports back on.

Not sure what the plan is to Final Battle. I assume they run that show. I thought I heard that All Out was going to be a 2 day event, and rumor was one day may be an ROH show. Although they’ve done nothing to build up for that. Maybe plans have changed.

My attitude towards Ring Of Honor is that of an 18 month project from purchase to whatever.
Spring 2022-Autumn 2023.

So I'm patient with the progress & the process ... especially with the fact that the new owner has his hands full with other projects. AEW, NFL, EPL, etc. And that ROH is getting some type of coverage via All Elite Wrestling.

From a business perspective, I'm fully interested in how they build up to Final Battle 2022 & Where it's going to be.

I'd absolutely make every ROH supercard what Takeover was from 2015-20, with Final Battle even tied to Winter is Coming. Just let it piggyback off of AEW PPVs and don't fool yourselves into thinking it's capable or "deserving" to stand on its own.

I agree. Sinclair Broadcasting wanted to turn Ring Of Honor into something like Pro WRESTLING Guerrilla. If there's no ROH television pushing narrative then it should continue to leverage AEW television to sell ROH premium live events.

ROH Death Before Dishonor 2022 was held 3 days apart from an AEW event in the same territory. Massachusetts. I assume ROH will be linked to AEW touring cycle for the foreseeable future. It's easier for the TV Video production. But that may not bode well for Final Battle being in 2300 arena Philadelphia or Baltimore ...

I am biased about Final Battle being somewhere between Boston & Baltimore.

[supersonic]

As someone who tours/travels for a living, I pay attention to weather patterns. Final Battle and Winter is Coming would be in Vegas and SoCal, as that's the best time of year to be in that region, not fucking summertime. Make it a double-shot destination in what's already a high-demand tourism area during peak friendly weather season.

[supersonic]

Someone broached the subject of Harwood eventually becoming ROH World Champion, and now I can't help but want the following:

Final Battle 2023 - Asheville, NC
Harwood vs. Wheeler in the main event

Winter is Coming 2023 is held the same week in Charlotte, GRB/WS, or Raleigh.

The Southeast tends to also have excellent weather through December, so the risk of losing out on tourist attendees would be minimal.

[KL_]

I was hoping that Tony Khan will continue the tradition by making the Survival of the Fittest event :/

[supersonic]

I was hoping that Tony Khan will continue the tradition by making the Survival of the Fittest event :/

That's originally a B-Show event (made initially sexy thanks to the Aries vs. Danielson portion), and only got boosted due to the SBG era. The premier autumn event is Glory By Honor, no matter how much SBG tried making it another B-Show.

Low Ki vs. Joe. Joe vs. Daniels. Foley's arrival. Gibson vs. Danielson. The Manhattan center debut with Marufuji vs. McGuinness and Danielson vs. KENTA. Misawa's lone weekend in the promotion. The Danielson/McGuinness double farewell tour along with Ladder War II. The "don't let the door hit you in the ass" farewell for Rollins.

THAT is why I expect the Glory By Honor name to be treated with prestige again.

[DougN]

Yeah, I agree with you. If we're ranking prestige ROH events PERIOD, it goes:

Final Battle
Glory By Honor
Supercard Of Honor
Death Before Dishonor
Anniversary Show
Best In The World
Survival Of The Fittest
Manhattan Mayhem

[supersonic]

I'd put Manhattan Mayhem WAY above Survival of the Fittest (but will concede to being underneath Best in the World since Cornette/Delirious decided to have it replace Death Before Dishonor in the Great American Bash spot).

Other than Aries vs. Danielson, I struggle to think of anything defining about Survival of the Fittest. Meanwhile, Manhattan Mayhem has the prestige of 2005 being arguably the show of the year, 2007 hosting the Observer Match of the Year, and 2011 having a title change that actually felt like something special at the time. That's only accounting for the Silkin era, and I know later editions had some well-received matches.

[DougN]

That's fair. I do think Survival Of The Fittest has "some" prestige, but not as much as you think it would.

The first is a legendary one. Roderick Strong won the second one and entered into a great program with Danielson. Delirious won the third one and had a fun mini-feud with Danielson that's not super memorable, but gave 2006 some depth and variety in matches/feuds. Hero won the fourth one and got a big push after that. So on and so forth. I think the only time wins didn't amount to much were Bobby Fish (didn't do anything as a singles afterwards) and Tyler Black (was already a main eventer, should have already been champ). Everyone else went on to win a title or have a place in the big picture.

But there's no real "memorable" matches except the first one. 2007 is memorable because it had Danielson-Nigel in the first round, but that's about it.

In thinking about it, you're right -- Manhattan Mayhem has more prestige to it by far. The first Manhattan Mayhem is legit the best show of 2005 except maybe Final Battle, and it really kick-started the prime of ROH where the shows started being top-to-bottom great as opposed to 1-2 good matches. Mayhem II is an amazing show. Mayhem III and Mayhem IV both have title changes (Lynn to Aries at III and Strong-Eddie at IV). Mayhem V has an awesome reDRagon v Wolves main event and 2017 is a top to bottom great show.

Only thing holding back Mayhem is that there's only 8 events total in ROH history, as opposed to 10+ for every marquee event.

Not counting Global Wars or War Of The Worlds here. Not that many shows AND they're by nature just reliant on Japanese talent.

[indyfan]

i feel im the only one who find Escape from New York the best show in 2005

[DougN]

I like that show a lot, but it's not better than Final Battle and Manhattan Mayhem to me. I also like Glory By Honor a lot too.

[KL_]

Shane Taylor on the potential of taking part in the new ROH under Tony Khan’s ownership:
“We go back to the politics of things. I know, when I started STP and everything from the beginning, I got everything cleared from the best way I knew how to do it. We did it, the way we went about doing it, some folks were upset, but we had to get the eyes, we had to do what we had to do and we made it work. I’ve got messages from people who were like, ‘we didn’t like this when it started, we didn’t think it was good for the company, we didn’t like this, we didn’t want to promote this, we didn’t want to do anything, but y’all made it work. Good job.’ My response was, ‘Yeah, I wasn’t going to not let it work.’ You don’t go that far out on a limb and not do what you have to do. A group like ours was never supposed to be a thing. There were people who were trying to make it happen and were flat out told ‘no, this is not what we want, this is not where we’re going to go.’ We were an anomaly because we shouldn’t have been a thing yet we were, we made it work, it was popular and we were the most talked about thing, not only when it came to six-man stuff but as the company as a whole, even though other people were supposed to be promoted before and more, everyone is talking about this group that shouldn’t exist. I think the fact that I am as steadfast in my beliefs and vision for how I wanted things to go was a problem for some. Everybody talks and people play these games and I’m sure that it’s one of those things where ‘we didn’t like this guy.’ ‘Okay, we don’t like this guy either.’ Okay. If you sit down and have a conversation with somebody and understand what the motives and intentions were and what we were trying to do, I feel people come out with a better respect and understanding as opposed to dealing with emotion.”

[DougN]

One, that's not a real answer. Two, when was STP ever the most talked about thing in ROH?

I think Shane Taylor is a great character, but in-ring, he's not really up to snuff.

[Zhuge1]

Shane Taylor on the potential of taking part in the new ROH under Tony Khan’s ownership:
“We go back to the politics of things. I know, when I started STP and everything from the beginning, I got everything cleared from the best way I knew how to do it. We did it, the way we went about doing it, some folks were upset, but we had to get the eyes, we had to do what we had to do and we made it work. I’ve got messages from people who were like, ‘we didn’t like this when it started, we didn’t think it was good for the company, we didn’t like this, we didn’t want to promote this, we didn’t want to do anything, but y’all made it work. Good job.’ My response was, ‘Yeah, I wasn’t going to not let it work.’ You don’t go that far out on a limb and not do what you have to do. A group like ours was never supposed to be a thing. There were people who were trying to make it happen and were flat out told ‘no, this is not what we want, this is not where we’re going to go.’ We were an anomaly because we shouldn’t have been a thing yet we were, we made it work, it was popular and we were the most talked about thing, not only when it came to six-man stuff but as the company as a whole, even though other people were supposed to be promoted before and more, everyone is talking about this group that shouldn’t exist. I think the fact that I am as steadfast in my beliefs and vision for how I wanted things to go was a problem for some. Everybody talks and people play these games and I’m sure that it’s one of those things where ‘we didn’t like this guy.’ ‘Okay, we don’t like this guy either.’ Okay. If you sit down and have a conversation with somebody and understand what the motives and intentions were and what we were trying to do, I feel people come out with a better respect and understanding as opposed to dealing with emotion.”

I actually thought "Shane Taylor Promotions" was just a storyline, not some sort of "real thing." That said, if it is an actual "entity," I can't say I know what it is specifically. And, I assume Kaun is no longer a member since he seems to be signed with AEW now as part of the new Embassy (formerly Tully Blanchard Enterprises)? Which I guess just leaves STP as Shane, O'Shay, and Moses? And perhaps their manager guy that never really appeared in ROH (Rev?).

[Montana]

Manhattan Mayhem is a iconic event; however it's not an annual event. That being said; i look at SOTF as like ROH's Survivor Series or King of the Ring. He may lack legendary moments; but it's still a major tradition, and helps push wrestlers and storylines along.

Hard to rank the events; as you could argue year over year the top event can change. Think Doug did about as good as any. I'd probably go:

Final Battle
Supercard of Honor
Anniversary Show
Glory by Honor (bigger in the golden era)
Death Before dishonor (bigger in the golden era)
Survival of the Fittest
Best in world

Kinda felt like SBG booked the Anniversary show and Supercard of Honor bigger/better than Glory by Honor/Death Before Dishonor. Really depends on the year though.

[DougN]

I think you're right about SBG v Golden Era holding different events in higher regard. Final Battle seems to be the only that was consistently placed above everything else. Supercard Of Honor after that just because it was their biggest shows of the year.

[Zhuge1]

Random ROH thoughts -- AEW brought Silas Young back this week on Dynamite. After he put up a pretty solid match against Adam Page a few weeks ago, he was booked in a trios match with two other guys that lasted two minutes (and Silas didn't even get tagged in). Seems odd to bring him in for that spot given that they at least talked him up in his match against Page.

[tigermask7.0]

If/when ROH is rebooted ... hope it's not under AEW management group.

[AnHonorableMention]

If/when ROH is rebooted ... hope it's not under AEW management group.

What the fuck does this even mean?

[DougN]

He's trolling