Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[AnHonorableMention]

Seems a little too big, but maybe they got a really good deal on the building.

Why does everyone always go to the maybe they got a good deal on the building? No venue manager is gonna be like "yeah Gary Juster, I'm a big ROH fan, have the building for multiple days for half of what we could get from a company owned by a billion dollar corporation"

Well if you’re a building that doesn’t have the date booked and the prospects of it getting filled are slim, you probably lower your rate to seal the deal. “Guaranteed” income is better than no income.

That's not how it works. The venue is not signing up for a money loser. They still have to pay for staff, insurance, etc. Lot of factors that come with renting a venue on both the end of the venue and the vendee.

[Montana]

This company/SBG from the very get go has been brand before individual. Also, everyone at WWE & AEW are off limits, Impact is running their own show opposite. NJPW is as well. Let's pretend they spend out of pocket, who is going motivate someone to drive 45 minutes or more depending on traffic to drive out to see at ROH?

How do you know AEW talent is off limits? Didn't FTR just show up at Final Battle? Danielson recently said he wanted to face Jonathan Gresham. While some of that might be dream scenario; in theory you'd want to start with the relaunch with a bang. Plus there are a ton of ex-wwe free agents out there. They could bring in someone like Samoa Joe or Keith Lee. I just don't see ROH coming back; without something notable at supercard of honor. Or maybe they run with the PWG guys. Plus it sounds like ROH's plan is to just run their titles through other promotions so maybe that helps some new relationships.

Not to mention; NJPW & Impact are holding their show at a hotel. Whats the capacity , 1-2K? I don't have a crystal ball; but i imagine ROH will put on a better/bigger card; than the NJPW strong tapings or whatever Impact has planned. I could be wrong; but i just don't expect ROH to return with the "same ole" ROH guys. You said it yourself, PCO, Taven, Bennett, Vincent were done with ROH. They'll need someone to take their place.

The 30-45 min drive is concerning; so they'll have to make it worth it.

Until these companies announce talent; we'll just be guessing.

Tony, Cody, the Bucks, and even AEW's live event promoter has said they will not run Mania weekend out of respect for WWE as it is their weekend. This has been said multiple times in multiple interviews. FTR was sent to Final Battle because Tony wanted to help send ROH out on a nice note because without ROH there would be no AEW. Danielson isn't doing indy matches during yet another variant filled pandemic period because of unvaccinated idiots. So without jumping behind the paywall to tell you what Mike Johnson reported today re: Impact's newest stable but it's most certainly relevant to the point of who is going to draw more.

Asking prices for recently released WWE talent is high, Mania weekend, of all places it will be higher than what a Vincent or whomever else was making per date. Pretty sure Joe didn't like what he experienced the first lap through the SBG-ROH based on his immediate thought of going to AEW when he was fired the first time. Keith Lee I'll be curious to see if he ever works again anywhere major. Nice guy, but health should be his priority. ROH is not going to get a "brother rate" from anyone based on how they treated people at the end.

ROH is dead. Whatever SBG resurrects won't be the ROH we know and loved. I'm sure there are SBG employees hoping to mask this project with the 3 letters, they'll have some fooled but most will know better. Too much milk has already filled the cereal bowl.

Tracking AEW said they wouldn’t run mania weekend, but nothing to say their talent couldn’t. I wouldn’t bet on FTR, but it could happen. I could be wrong but I’ve thought AEW talent has already worked mania weekend shows.

Supposedly ROH has been using the tightest Covid protocols, so maybe Danielson could consider. I think this is highly unlikely, just mentioning he’s referenced it.

Not sure I quite understand Mike Johnson’s paragraph. He saying because Taven and crew went to Impact, their going to draw more?? Ironically that might help ROH more than hurt. Taven seems extremely disliked. Turn the channel disliked. Again, we’ll see how it plays out.

Of course a Samoa Joe per date cost would be higher than Vincent, but Joe will put butts in Seats. It’s one date vs an 1-2 year contract. SBG has to invest some money into the show. What’s better spending 50K on talent and drawing 2K fans at 75$ or 100k and getting 6K fans. Doesn’t seem like a hard choice.

While it could be one and done for ROH. If that’s the plan, you’d think they’d already be in talks to sell the company/IP/library etc. time will tell.

[tigermask7.0]

If the ROH Pure Title is being retired, there should be another Pure Tournament & retire it at the end...

Where & When? And How? Who knows.

[AnHonorableMention]

Tracking AEW said they wouldn’t run mania weekend, but nothing to say their talent couldn’t. I wouldn’t bet on FTR, but it could happen. I could be wrong but I’ve thought AEW talent has already worked mania weekend shows.


Supposedly ROH has been using the tightest Covid protocols, so maybe Danielson could consider. I think this is highly unlikely, just mentioning he’s referenced it.

In case you have not figured it out by now, most of the Tier 1 talents don't do indies. Bryan charges 5 figures for autograph signings, you think he's gonna take less to do a match?

Not sure I quite understand Mike Johnson’s paragraph. He saying because Taven and crew went to Impact, their going to draw more?? Ironically that might help ROH more than hurt. Taven seems extremely disliked. Turn the channel disliked. Again, we’ll see how it plays out.

Not that Impact will draw more or ROH will draw more but if the die hard Taven fans go where Taven is, and ROH doesn't replace those diehards you lose out. I don't think Matt is disliked so much as his place on the card being an issue.

Of course a Samoa Joe per date cost would be higher than Vincent, but Joe will put butts in Seats. It’s one date vs an 1-2 year contract. SBG has to invest some money into the show. What’s better spending 50K on talent and drawing 2K fans at 75$ or 100k and getting 6K fans. Doesn’t seem like a hard choice.

That building that fits 6k is more expensive than a building that fits 2k. There's so many factors that will cause a loss of money. MSG made no money once all was said and done. Hard to imagine the first show of a relaunch going up against, Impact/NJPW/Springbreak and being 45 minutes out of town is going to start positively. They'd have been better off doing something without direct competition in a home market.

While it could be one and done for ROH. If that’s the plan, you’d think they’d already be in talks to sell the company/IP/library etc. time will tell.

This has already been in the works. As far back as 2018. WWE was in the SBG office. I know there is active interest elsewhere now but the asking price is stupidly high.

[Montana]

Tracking AEW said they wouldn’t run mania weekend, but nothing to say their talent couldn’t. I wouldn’t bet on FTR, but it could happen. I could be wrong but I’ve thought AEW talent has already worked mania weekend shows.


Supposedly ROH has been using the tightest Covid protocols, so maybe Danielson could consider. I think this is highly unlikely, just mentioning he’s referenced it.

In case you have not figured it out by now, most of the Tier 1 talents don't do indies. Bryan charges 5 figures for autograph signings, you think he's gonna take less to do a match?

Not sure I quite understand Mike Johnson’s paragraph. He saying because Taven and crew went to Impact, their going to draw more?? Ironically that might help ROH more than hurt. Taven seems extremely disliked. Turn the channel disliked. Again, we’ll see how it plays out.

Not that Impact will draw more or ROH will draw more but if the die hard Taven fans go where Taven is, and ROH doesn't replace those diehards you lose out. I don't think Matt is disliked so much as his place on the card being an issue.

Of course a Samoa Joe per date cost would be higher than Vincent, but Joe will put butts in Seats. It’s one date vs an 1-2 year contract. SBG has to invest some money into the show. What’s better spending 50K on talent and drawing 2K fans at 75$ or 100k and getting 6K fans. Doesn’t seem like a hard choice.

That building that fits 6k is more expensive than a building that fits 2k. There's so many factors that will cause a loss of money. MSG made no money once all was said and done. Hard to imagine the first show of a relaunch going up against, Impact/NJPW/Springbreak and being 45 minutes out of town is going to start positively. They'd have been better off doing something without direct competition in a home market.

While it could be one and done for ROH. If that’s the plan, you’d think they’d already be in talks to sell the company/IP/library etc. time will tell.

This has already been in the works. As far back as 2018. WWE was in the SBG office. I know there is active interest elsewhere now but the asking price is stupidly high.

Bryan already said he wants to work indies; and that TK prevented him from working one company until AEW goes there. If an indy company can come up with that; i think SBG can. Not to mention; he said he thought he would have been a perfect fit to wrestle gresham at Final Battle if he was healthy; and looked at his phone in time. I'm not saying DB is coming in; i'm just saying it's not completely out of the question; at some point in the future to him to work ROH or any other outside promotions that are willing to pay.

I get a majority of the Tier 1 AEW talent's don't do indies; and don't need to; but SOME like to. Not to mention; as AEW's roster keeps growing; and talent is on TV less and less; they'll want to create some buzz for themselves. I don't even know if you NEED a tier 1 talent. FTR isn't a tier 1 talent; and think they could do well at signing tickets. Guys like Janela/Garcia; a few others could be an interesting look. I get GCW is showing shows all weekend too. But it's not out of the question at this point; that ROH uses some "other" talent on the show. THey'll need to. They literally don't have a roster now.

Taven's has a small cult of fans; but nothing that will move the needle. It all depends who ROH brings in for each show.

ROH has been committed to the 6K building for quite some time. Thus, it's in their best interest; to try and sell as many tickets as possible. It's a sunk cost at this point.

In terms of ROH's library & IP value; it's not going to go up over time if they aren't running and creating buzz. The longer they wait; the the value drops. OR they just keep it ; and continue using it as cheap programming. If they just keep the belts floating through others promotions; it's not gaining value there either.

Until ROH announces which talent will be there; we are just guessing. I think we both can agree; if they bring in the cheapest possible talent; they won't move many tickets. If they get some matches; that will turn heads; they may do alright. It's in their best interest; to create some buzz for this show.

[tigermask7.0]

Supercard of Honor line-up may also depend on what GCW is scheduled for that weekend.

A Supercard of ROH, AEW, GCW, NWA, and Mexican Luchador talent may draw crowds that will travel the crosstown distance.

Unfortunately for Ring Of Honor that don't have an active platform to promote like New Japan & Impact. However, the traveling belt scenario is keeping ROH in spotlight.

[AnHonorableMention]

Bryan already said he wants to work indies; and that TK prevented him from working one company until AEW goes there. If an indy company can come up with that; i think SBG can. Not to mention; he said he thought he would have been a perfect fit to wrestle gresham at Final Battle if he was healthy; and looked at his phone in time. I'm not saying DB is coming in; i'm just saying it's not completely out of the question; at some point in the future to him to work ROH or any other outside promotions that are willing to pay.

I want to visit my parents safely, and I want to be able to go to Target without some maskless asshole coughing and sneezing. Point being, risk vs. reward. The risk is not worth the reward and Dragon isn't dumb. He knows what to say and how to say it, and he actually does want to work as much as he can. I've had this conversation with him. But at the same time, he knows his wife and children need to be as safe as possible and that means leaving the house a couple days a week. It's not an impossibility but TK is not going to grant him permission to be ROH's golden goose on a weekend that belongs to them. He's not going to let Bryan lose either. So, what Bryan wins the title? Ya gotta think these things through with facts and knowledge vs. what you'd like to see

I get a majority of the Tier 1 AEW talent's don't do indies; and don't need to; but SOME like to. Not to mention; as AEW's roster keeps growing; and talent is on TV less and less; they'll want to create some buzz for themselves. I don't even know if you NEED a tier 1 talent. FTR isn't a tier 1 talent; and think they could do well at signing tickets. Guys like Janela/Garcia; a few others could be an interesting look. I get GCW is showing shows all weekend too. But it's not out of the question at this point; that ROH uses some "other" talent on the show. THey'll need to. They literally don't have a roster now.

As far as I'm aware they are in the Tier 1 of contract status. I'm also under the impression the match in question if it was going to happen would be done at AEW.

Taven's has a small cult of fans; but nothing that will move the needle. It all depends who ROH brings in for each show.

So here in lays the biggest question, that has been asked since the day SBG bought the company. What's more important, keeping those you know will spend money or finding more people who will spend money on unproven commodities? They both need to be catered to.

ROH has been committed to the 6K building for quite some time. Thus, it's in their best interest; to try and sell as many tickets as possible. It's a sunk cost at this point.

At what point does SBG say it's all sunken cost and will never not be thus we are done funding Joe Koff's vanity project? We know they don't like change, and we know SBG is fiscally in the dumps due to the Bally Sports fiasco. What is the logic of coming back to run directly against competition?

In terms of ROH's library & IP value; it's not going to go up over time if they aren't running and creating buzz. The longer they wait; the the value drops. OR they just keep it ; and continue using it as cheap programming. If they just keep the belts floating through others promotions; it's not gaining value there either.

Until ROH announces which talent will be there; we are just guessing. I think we both can agree; if they bring in the cheapest possible talent; they won't move many tickets. If they get some matches; that will turn heads; they may do alright. It's in their best interest; to create some buzz for this show.

The library will continue to increase in value if you think about it. More talent like a Samoa Joe will be set free increasing their price point. At the end of the day there is one logical buyer to both the IP and library. Not at the price they want it to be but at a price that is not only fair but also sane.

We're on the same page, this is a money loser either way. The logic is give the fans matches they want but will there be enough of them, even if they do so?

[Chrisvegas27]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the current plan with ROH is to focus solely on the men’s world title (held by both Gresham and Bandido), the women’s title and the tag team titles (held by the Briscoes). The pure title (currently held by Josh Woods), the TV title (held by Rhett Titus) and the trios titles (held by Vincent, Bateman & Dutch), are all going to be retired.As for the main three belts, they will becoming “touring world championships” that will be leased out to independent promotions. That is already happening with this latest title change, as well as Jonathan Gresham defending the original ROH title at various shows. ROH will still control the title changes, however, which means they gave their approval for Purrazzo winning last night.

In addition to booking a ROH champion, the independent company will also have to give ROH rights to the footage for its television show. The Sinclair show will essentially be matches with the three champions in different companies instead of taping television. This allows them to save on expenses and keep a program on Sinclair’s networks. It’s similar to the IWTV arrangement, in which they have a champion who appears on the promotions they work with.

[Big Red Machine]

Kinda funny how we all thought ROH was dead and then 3 weeks later we are arguing about an arena being too big. Good improvement.

To be fair, the only reason people thought they weren't coming back was that they didn't bother to announce a return date. They could have easily staved all of that talk off if they had just put a date in the graphic.

To the point being they were also awaiting SBG money being allocated to them as of the Monday after Final Battle from what I was told. Much tighter purse strings now. Certainly seeing what rent for 48 hours at the venue is will be rather curious to see how they make that back. Guessing this is going to be a 1 and done based on competition, pandemic, travel restrictions, and talent roster limitations(not quality of talent, for those who will play that lame card).

Why 48 hours?

[Wrestlingisback]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the current plan with ROH is to focus solely on the men’s world title (held by both Gresham and Bandido), the women’s title and the tag team titles (held by the Briscoes). The pure title (currently held by Josh Woods), the TV title (held by Rhett Titus) and the trios titles (held by Vincent, Bateman & Dutch), are all going to be retired.As for the main three belts, they will becoming “touring world championships” that will be leased out to independent promotions. That is already happening with this latest title change, as well as Jonathan Gresham defending the original ROH title at various shows. ROH will still control the title changes, however, which means they gave their approval for Purrazzo winning last night.

In addition to booking a ROH champion, the independent company will also have to give ROH rights to the footage for its television show. The Sinclair show will essentially be matches with the three champions in different companies instead of taping television. This allows them to save on expenses and keep a program on Sinclair’s networks. It’s similar to the IWTV arrangement, in which they have a champion who appears on the promotions they work with.

They can’t be only doing that. They have to be doing tapings of their own Ala Supercard in Dallas.

If that’s the plan, it doesn’t seem to have much of a shelf life. Seems less a promotion and more a reality show called “I’m a Traveling Wrestling Champion” starring Jonathan Gresham, the Briscoes and Deonna Purazzo

[Chrisvegas27]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the current plan with ROH is to focus solely on the men’s world title (held by both Gresham and Bandido), the women’s title and the tag team titles (held by the Briscoes). The pure title (currently held by Josh Woods), the TV title (held by Rhett Titus) and the trios titles (held by Vincent, Bateman & Dutch), are all going to be retired.As for the main three belts, they will becoming “touring world championships” that will be leased out to independent promotions. That is already happening with this latest title change, as well as Jonathan Gresham defending the original ROH title at various shows. ROH will still control the title changes, however, which means they gave their approval for Purrazzo winning last night.

In addition to booking a ROH champion, the independent company will also have to give ROH rights to the footage for its television show. The Sinclair show will essentially be matches with the three champions in different companies instead of taping television. This allows them to save on expenses and keep a program on Sinclair’s networks. It’s similar to the IWTV arrangement, in which they have a champion who appears on the promotions they work with.

They can’t be only doing that. They have to be doing tapings of their own Ala Supercard in Dallas.

If that’s the plan, it doesn’t seem to have much of a shelf life. Seems less a promotion and more a reality show called “I’m a Traveling Wrestling Champion” starring Jonathan Gresham, the Briscoes and Deonna Purazzo

Well they lost me at no contracted talent so i will keep eye on the company but wont be watching it weekly anymore

[Montana]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the current plan with ROH is to focus solely on the men’s world title (held by both Gresham and Bandido), the women’s title and the tag team titles (held by the Briscoes). The pure title (currently held by Josh Woods), the TV title (held by Rhett Titus) and the trios titles (held by Vincent, Bateman & Dutch), are all going to be retired.As for the main three belts, they will becoming “touring world championships” that will be leased out to independent promotions. That is already happening with this latest title change, as well as Jonathan Gresham defending the original ROH title at various shows. ROH will still control the title changes, however, which means they gave their approval for Purrazzo winning last night.

In addition to booking a ROH champion, the independent company will also have to give ROH rights to the footage for its television show. The Sinclair show will essentially be matches with the three champions in different companies instead of taping television. This allows them to save on expenses and keep a program on Sinclair’s networks. It’s similar to the IWTV arrangement, in which they have a champion who appears on the promotions they work with.

They can’t be only doing that. They have to be doing tapings of their own Ala Supercard in Dallas.

If that’s the plan, it doesn’t seem to have much of a shelf life. Seems less a promotion and more a reality show called “I’m a Traveling Wrestling Champion” starring Jonathan Gresham, the Briscoes and Deonna Purazzo

Well they lost me at no contracted talent so i will keep eye on the company but wont be watching it weekly anymore

Here's the whole video for context

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M0AJQY56ks


Long story short... ROH plans to focus on the men's women's , and tag belts. ROH has video rights to any ROH title matches; and they plan to air them on ROH TV. There is an impact taping spoiler on a women's match too. Beware.

Sounds to me ; like ROH is planning to use other promotions footage of ROH champions (mixed with their own historic footage) from Now-April. After that; there is no word on ANY TV tapings. I assume it won't be in Dallas that weekend; so my guess; later in April/May they'll use that supercard footage on ROH TV. From there; figure out a tv taping schedule. It seems to me; if ROH wants to run like this; they'll need to be good friends with a lot of the other promotions Impact/GCW/Etc. Or why else would they bother giving the ROH title the rub.

Until ROH announces more updates; it's all very speculative at this point.

[AnHonorableMention]

To be fair, the only reason people thought they weren't coming back was that they didn't bother to announce a return date. They could have easily staved all of that talk off if they had just put a date in the graphic.

To the point being they were also awaiting SBG money being allocated to them as of the Monday after Final Battle from what I was told. Much tighter purse strings now. Certainly seeing what rent for 48 hours at the venue is will be rather curious to see how they make that back. Guessing this is going to be a 1 and done based on competition, pandemic, travel restrictions, and talent roster limitations(not quality of talent, for those who will play that lame card).

Why 48 hours?

Pretty standard load in and load out procedure. Including clean up and returning the arena to its original state. This is not every single arena but most major arenas use this as a safety mechanism so events don't log jam trucks.

[AnHonorableMention]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that the current plan with ROH is to focus solely on the men’s world title (held by both Gresham and Bandido), the women’s title and the tag team titles (held by the Briscoes). The pure title (currently held by Josh Woods), the TV title (held by Rhett Titus) and the trios titles (held by Vincent, Bateman & Dutch), are all going to be retired.As for the main three belts, they will becoming “touring world championships” that will be leased out to independent promotions. That is already happening with this latest title change, as well as Jonathan Gresham defending the original ROH title at various shows. ROH will still control the title changes, however, which means they gave their approval for Purrazzo winning last night.

In addition to booking a ROH champion, the independent company will also have to give ROH rights to the footage for its television show. The Sinclair show will essentially be matches with the three champions in different companies instead of taping television. This allows them to save on expenses and keep a program on Sinclair’s networks. It’s similar to the IWTV arrangement, in which they have a champion who appears on the promotions they work with.

They can’t be only doing that. They have to be doing tapings of their own Ala Supercard in Dallas.

If that’s the plan, it doesn’t seem to have much of a shelf life. Seems less a promotion and more a reality show called “I’m a Traveling Wrestling Champion” starring Jonathan Gresham, the Briscoes and Deonna Purazzo

Well they lost me at no contracted talent so i will keep eye on the company but wont be watching it weekly anymore

The company had no contracts from 2002-2007 and was just fine. FFS.

[kovs27]

A few title defenses this weekend:

Gresham vs. 2 Cold Scorpio tonight at GCW

Gresham vs. Josh Alexander tomorrow at Terminus
Bandido vs. Baron Black tomorrow at Terminus

Not an ROH title defense but....

Briscoes vs. The Rejects for the GCW tag titles tonight

[KL_]

I think it wasn't mentioned here:
According to Wrestling Observer, it was Triple H who tried to get Madison Square Garden to cancel the booking of ROH/NJPW event. According to Meltzer, MSG did try and cancel the booking but Sinclair Broadcasting threatened the arena with a lawsuit.

[monster mafia]

ECK'S FILES:

Expect ROH to make a major announcement sometime next week. My sources tell me that anyone who has ever been an ROH fan will be excited by this news.

[indyfan]

damn i cant wait!!!!

[Shanahan]

No contracts will be a good thing. Every company is on friendly grounds and with WWE only wanting people under 24 it won’t really hurt booking. Plus ROH can bring in someone and if they don’t work after a month or 2 they can just let them go. We won’t be stuck with them getting a forced push to justify the signing.

[tigermask7.0]

Bandido lost (non-title match?) to Blake Christian at some GCW event.
Blake Christian is challenging Jonathan Gresham for ROH title at The WRLD On GCW.

Whoever walks out of the Hammerstein Ballroom/NYC with the ROH Championship is the linear champion ... regardless of belt.

Terminus is parallel universe stuff.