Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[Wrestlingisback]

I think there’s a good chance Gabe could return to the ROH fold. A chance to take it back to the Murphy Rec glorified Supershow days-only with better backing this time

Regal got to be considered AEW bound with guys like Danielson, Punk and the myriad of others that would take a bullet for that man. Safe to say, had he been released a day earlier, he’d have been at Dynamite yesterday

[BurningHammer]

Has Gabe really shown anything recently that says he would be any better than what we have now. History won’t always repeat itself and it’s not like Gabe doesn’t have baggage carries himself in any way better than Delirious, staying clear of Gabe would be a good thing. The likes of Regal and Joe for sure no question, you put that together with Hero, Delirious, Maria and Bobby and you have a great booking team.

[EvanKnight]

I'm not saying those promotions are close to where ROH was in 2018. What I'm saying is that if ROH had been better, those companies wouldn't have had room to grow and wouldn't have been able to be the buzz-getting indies in 2021 so that ROH wouldn't have had to fight for attention with them.


As for the "hot indy" vs. cable wrestling promotion thing, obviously it all depends on how you define "indy" (is it exposure level or style or schedule or how you do contracts, or just who owns you), but I think it's absolutely possible to be a steady national cable TV wrestling product while keeping all of the best aspect of independent wrestling.

That is 100% on point. ROH stopped being the go-to destination for up and coming talent, and instead focused on a core of talent that would sign on as ROH faithful. Even removing AEW from the equation, ROH let other companies capture the attention by not being the ones actively trying to capture the attention themselves. To be a good coach, you have to believe in your team while also being fully aware of their limitations. ROH sometimes seems to coach like they are home team fans and just go to market with "our team is great".

That's the reason that I've said it is possible that ROH comes out stronger after a reset. If you are not signing up guys who want to be ROH loyalists only and just booking guys for 6 show arcs at a time, there is no reason we don't get more Yehi and Wheelers, and more focus on Homicide, Deppen, and Dickerson types, and less building around guys who are only interested in ROH. That will require a bid of an internal mindset shift, which is the big problem.

You can't highlight ROH as the Best in the World on your PPV, and promote the PURE division as the apex of ROH, and then release a Pure top 5 that has Johnson, LSG, Bennett, and Milonas. I have nothing against those guys, but to say those are 4 of the 5 top wrestlers in the world is a stretch. ROH often seems tone deaf on the optics of what they are promoting.

[Big Red Machine]

Has Gabe really shown anything recently that says he would be any better than what we have now. History won’t always repeat itself and it’s not like Gabe doesn’t have baggage carries himself in any way better than Delirious, staying clear of Gabe would be a good thing. The likes of Regal and Joe for sure no question, you put that together with Hero, Delirious, Maria and Bobby and you have a great booking team.

I thought a lot of the stuff he did in EVOLVE from 2014-2018 was tremendous, and (like with 205 Live) the issue was that people just didn't know it was there or their bandwith was all used up. One could (very credibly) claim that coming to ROH in 2022 does not solve that problem, but I think the idea of Gabe coming back would bring some buzz in and of itself which might help.

Your point about Gabe having baggage is certainly fair, but everything we've heard (which to be fair, isn't much) is that he has mellowed out over the years. When was the last time you heard about him throwing clipboards or destroying ashtrays or whatever was in that excellent Joe and Punk shoot?

[BurningHammer]

Has Gabe really shown anything recently that says he would be any better than what we have now. History won’t always repeat itself and it’s not like Gabe doesn’t have baggage carries himself in any way better than Delirious, staying clear of Gabe would be a good thing. The likes of Regal and Joe for sure no question, you put that together with Hero, Delirious, Maria and Bobby and you have a great booking team.

I thought a lot of the stuff he did in EVOLVE from 2014-2018 was tremendous, and (like with 205 Live) the issue was that people just didn't know it was there or their bandwith was all used up. One could (very credibly) claim that coming to ROH in 2022 does not solve that problem, but I think the idea of Gabe coming back would bring some buzz in and of itself which might help.

Your point about Gabe having baggage is certainly fair, but everything we've heard (which to be fair, isn't much) is that he has mellowed out over the years. When was the last time you heard about him throwing clipboards or destroying ashtrays or whatever was in that excellent Joe and Punk shoot?

Certainly Evolve at that time was some of Gabe’s best work but again would he have that in him. Who knows what his time in WWE has done to him and his search for the approval of HHH, is something I wonder could stay with him going forward. I just think going forward it would be better to surround clever mellower heads with that wrestling clout that I think Delirious can go with. Whatever happens I don’t think Delirious isn’t going anywhere and him and Gabe (no matter if I feel he has the elements Delirious lacks) they would clash.

I also think there is a way to help Delirious and his booking, by formatting a weekly live show, I think if he can see himself book week to week rather a month in a short amount of days it would give him the continuity he misses so much in his booking. Put that with a smaller or better balanced roster and you should have success even with Delirious.

[Big Red Machine]

Has Gabe really shown anything recently that says he would be any better than what we have now. History won’t always repeat itself and it’s not like Gabe doesn’t have baggage carries himself in any way better than Delirious, staying clear of Gabe would be a good thing. The likes of Regal and Joe for sure no question, you put that together with Hero, Delirious, Maria and Bobby and you have a great booking team.

I thought a lot of the stuff he did in EVOLVE from 2014-2018 was tremendous, and (like with 205 Live) the issue was that people just didn't know it was there or their bandwith was all used up. One could (very credibly) claim that coming to ROH in 2022 does not solve that problem, but I think the idea of Gabe coming back would bring some buzz in and of itself which might help.

Your point about Gabe having baggage is certainly fair, but everything we've heard (which to be fair, isn't much) is that he has mellowed out over the years. When was the last time you heard about him throwing clipboards or destroying ashtrays or whatever was in that excellent Joe and Punk shoot?

Certainly Evolve at that time was some of Gabe’s best work but again would he have that in him. Who knows what his time in WWE has done to him and his search for the approval of HHH, is something I wonder could stay with him going forward. I just think going forward it would be better to surround clever mellower heads with that wrestling clout that I think Delirious can go with. Whatever happens I don’t think Delirious isn’t going anywhere and him and Gabe (no matter if I feel he has the elements Delirious lacks) they would clash.

I also think there is a way to help Delirious and his booking, by formatting a weekly live show, I think if he can see himself book week to week rather a month in a short amount of days it would give him the continuity he misses so much in his booking. Put that with a smaller or better balanced roster and you should have success even with Delirious.

You see, I think Delirious absolutely has to go. How many times have they told us that they're supposedly going to "refocus" on clean finishes and nothing has changed? I think we got one at the beginning of 2018 and at the beginning of 2019, and neither mattered. How many times has Delirious proved that he still hasn't learned his lesson about timing out PPVs to make sure that the important matches get an appropriate amount of time? How many times has Delirious not learned his lesson about wasting time with bottom of the card acts on TV at the expense of following up on important storyline events with main eventers? How many times has Delirious just plain failed at telling a story coherently?

The dude has to go. You can give him all of the William Regals in the world and it won't matter if he doesn't listen to them. Delirious' vision is that problem. That's a key component of what needs to change.

Gabe has a proven track record of being good at this. Even towards the end of EVOLVE, he was still quickly getting the jump on those talented indy guys who were about to break out (Theory, Curt Stallion, Anthony Greene).

I disagree that going live will help with the continuity. You're not booking a month in a short amount of time. You've got the entire month from the end of the previous tapings to figure out what you're doing. If anything, booking week to week would be worse if you tape all at once, it's easier to check over everything and make sure that all of your logical/continuity bases are covered.
I think he misses the logic and continuity because he just doesn't see it (either that, or he does and doesn't care). And some people just don't see it unless it is pointed out to them. Their brains aren't wired that way. But those people shouldn't be the week-to-week booker. If Delirious is going to be the Eddie Graham, just saying which wrestlers he wants pushed while Dusty/Brisco/Watts/Sullivan/whoever write the week-to-week TV and figure out all of the details for him then that's fine, but I doubt that's what is going to happen. Even when Marty took over the book, Delirious was supposedly going to be the guy writing the TV, and can't imagine that any "re-imagining" or whatever they're calling this is going to wind up much differently.

I've seen enough from Delirious to feel that no optimism of any sort is warranted as long as he is in a major role until I see some sort of evidence from him that he understands what mistakes he has been making.

I think a team of Gabe plus people Gabe is willing to take input from is going to have a better chance of success than any team involving Delirious, because Delirious has consistently failed at both the macro and the micro parts.

[AnHonorableMention]

Guys, Gabe was terminated in the last 48 hours. He clearly has a lot to think about. Let him process things before you go hiring him for something that doesn't exist and very clearly Delirious isn't giving up his job if there is one.

[kovs27]

Ian is calling the ROH World title match tonight on the Impact PPV. Bobby Cruise will be doing the ring announcing.

[Wrestlingisback]

Mike and Maria Bennett, Matt Taven, Vincent and PCO “invaded” Impact at the ppv.

[monster mafia]

Wow.

[Chrisvegas27]

I wonder if the guys that showed up tonight is the talent roh hasnt officially released or are keeping a few talent under contract even when they come back

[Chrisvegas27]

Do you think saying your wrestling fan to anyone that will listen but in reality only cheerleads for one company is considered a mark because i do think your mark when you given up on all wrestling other then one company that you given multiple changes and you are still buying their ppvs watching their shows going to tv tapings or trying to convince talent on social to go to one company even using your own money on forums dedicated to one company

[NewROHFan2020]

Do you think saying your wrestling fan to anyone that will listen but in reality only cheerleads for one company is considered a mark because i do think your mark when you given up on all wrestling other then one company that you given multiple changes and you are still buying their ppvs watching their shows going to tv tapings or trying to convince talent on social to go to one company even using your own money on forums dedicated to one company

Sorry, but did you graduate high school or have a learning disability?

[Chrisvegas27]

Do you think saying your wrestling fan to anyone that will listen but in reality only cheerleads for one company is considered a mark because i do think your mark when you given up on all wrestling other then one company that you given multiple changes and you are still buying their ppvs watching their shows going to tv tapings or trying to convince talent on social to go to one company even using your own money on forums dedicated to one company

Sorry, but did you graduate high school or have a learning disability?

I use a phone at work on break and im not spending alot of time trying to write everything correctly

[AnHonorableMention]

Do you think saying your wrestling fan to anyone that will listen but in reality only cheerleads for one company is considered a mark because i do think your mark when you given up on all wrestling other then one company that you given multiple changes and you are still buying their ppvs watching their shows going to tv tapings or trying to convince talent on social to go to one company even using your own money on forums dedicated to one company

Sorry, but did you graduate high school or have a learning disability?

I use a phone at work on break and im not spending alot of time trying to write everything correctly

Lol.

Honestly, PCO quit, Bennett and Maria are fine, Taven and Vincent just had a never ending feud, is it even over? This whole group is a mess. Logic, thrown out the window. When I heard this was a thing my gut instinct was at least the weirdo Taven cult will add to the TNA audience. So good for Impact. Also did see Sabin/Gresh, seeing Bobby was super weird, strong match and unshockingly, magnificent commentary from Ian. I’d go as far as to say Ian and Gresham have been the MVP’s of 2020-2021.

[Wrestlingisback]

The group lineup made sense considering who they were going to do the run in on. It was more the plunder guys in Impact coming off a plunder match. Wouldn’t have made much sense for Gresham to lead a group of Foundation guys in to that scene. Though a second tier of an Invasion angle with Gresham and the Foundation against the X division guys might be interesting.

With the Briscoes earmarked for AEW and Lethal already there, probably the most logical choices.

STP teasing on Twitter they want in and Rok-C was shown front row and they should be taping her and Deonna for the ROH belt tomorrow so who knows how far this goes

[BurningHammer]

The group was very much a group for Impact which I’m fine with, it keeps a sense of ROH going but also gives Impact guys that ROH really doesn’t need to have around.

With what’s happening in GCW, Beyond etc, as well ROH still has a strong presence in the wrestling scene and that’s important. Even more so considering the likely return in April. Koff has stated they could return earlier which I guess might happen if the ‘Invasion’ angle picks up enough steam.

Just to say if anyone wants to know the result for Deonna and Rok-C, SRS has been told what’s likely going to happen and is up on Fightfull’s review of Hard To Kill

[Chrisvegas27]

The group was very much a group for Impact which I’m fine with, it keeps a sense of ROH going but also gives Impact guys that ROH really doesn’t need to have around.

With what’s happening in GCW, Beyond etc, as well ROH still has a strong presence in the wrestling scene and that’s important. Even more so considering the likely return in April. Koff has stated they could return earlier which I guess might happen if the ‘Invasion’ angle picks up enough steam.

Just to say if anyone wants to know the result for Deonna and Rok-C, SRS has been told what’s likely going to happen and is up on Fightfull’s review of Hard To Kill

im ok with roh being impact but its talent that the impact faithful couldnt stand before impact

[BurningHammer]

The group was very much a group for Impact which I’m fine with, it keeps a sense of ROH going but also gives Impact guys that ROH really doesn’t need to have around.

With what’s happening in GCW, Beyond etc, as well ROH still has a strong presence in the wrestling scene and that’s important. Even more so considering the likely return in April. Koff has stated they could return earlier which I guess might happen if the ‘Invasion’ angle picks up enough steam.

Just to say if anyone wants to know the result for Deonna and Rok-C, SRS has been told what’s likely going to happen and is up on Fightfull’s review of Hard To Kill

im ok with roh being impact but its talent that the impact faithful couldnt stand before impact

Well that’s just the way it is, I’ll take an interest in it too see where it goes, hopefully this is just the start of something bigger. I have no idea if ROH fits into an AEW realm if they do than stronger talent can obviously flow towards there and then come back.

Looking at it overall Impact and ROH has needed freshening up for a while as, this can a give new gloss to older talent while giving ROH space to create a different identity going forward. If and it is a big ‘if’ this could be a massive way to start ROH again, also if you look at something like EC3 and the Narative story, as well as Terminus thrown in.

[Big Red Machine]

I wonder if the guys that showed up tonight is the talent roh hasnt officially released or are keeping a few talent under contract even when they come back

This seems like a pretty decent theory to me.