Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[famicommander]

You literally watched what AEW did to Impact and decided there's any reason they'd treat ROH any better?

Why?

What possible reason could anyone think AEW would do anything except bury the ever living shit out of ROH just like they have to AAA and Impact?

[Montana]

You literally watched what AEW did to Impact and decided there's any reason they'd treat ROH any better?

Why?

What possible reason could anyone think AEW would do anything except bury the ever living shit out of ROH just like they have to AAA and Impact?

Well... TK may want that ROH Tape library. You know the one with all the Bryan Danielson , CM Punk, YOung Bucks, Cody, Omega, Christor Daniels, Kaz, Scorpio Sky, Colt Cabana, Bobby Fish, Adam Cole, Adam Cole, Jack Evans, Matt Sydal, Chuck Taylor, Trent, Eddie Kingston, Super Smash Bros, Lio Rush, etc. Or he may want that "All In" show. As a wrestling fan it kinda bugs me it's just sitting out there. almost hostage. It's gotta kill TK & the Elite right?

ROH has more of a position to either make it closer to an even exchange; where as Impact/ NWA/ AAA just wants to be affiliated. Although to be fair; ROH is trending the wrong direction for the last few years. Wouldn't surprise me; if TK would look to buy ROH out. Get the tape library, have a place for your younger wrestlers to cut their teeth; AEW can throw "Dark" and/or ROH on the local SBG networks. AEW can start a streaming subscription service. ROH could be a branch of AEW; with more of a "sports" feel. I could also see TK wanting PWG's library as well.

All hypothetical... but my hunch is there has been discussions back and forth; more than just the G1 Supercard timeframe.

[KL_]

What you can listen in this interview with Ian is that Final Battle will take place on December 11th; will be available on Fite TV and Honor Club.
Because of Covid it is currently unknown if it's gonna be with the fans in the arena.

[BurningHammer]

You literally watched what AEW did to Impact and decided there's any reason they'd treat ROH any better?

Why?

What possible reason could anyone think AEW would do anything except bury the ever living shit out of ROH just like they have to AAA and Impact?

Because Impact see nothing but positives in all the negatives they experience, they are used to it and make the most out it. ROH has at least, from what I can see made a much stronger effort to change and develop. I think both ROH and AEW have a similar identity enough that can feed well into each other. Also with CM Punk and Danielson, as well as many others I don’t think they would necessarily be inline with fucking over ROH which I imagine would go someway in the higher ups of AEW.

Also ROH I think in general have a stronger back bone these days, it might be that we aren’t seeing anything between ROH and others because they don’t feel the ideas presented is right for the company.

[famicommander]

You literally watched what AEW did to Impact and decided there's any reason they'd treat ROH any better?

Why?

What possible reason could anyone think AEW would do anything except bury the ever living shit out of ROH just like they have to AAA and Impact?

Because Impact see nothing but positives in all the negatives they experience, they are used to it and make the most out it. ROH has at least, from what I can see made a much stronger effort to change and develop. I think both ROH and AEW have a similar identity enough that can feed well into each other. Also with CM Punk and Danielson, as well as many others I don’t think they would necessarily be inline with fucking over ROH which I imagine would go someway in the higher ups of AEW.

Also ROH I think in general have a stronger back bone these days, it might be that we aren’t seeing anything between ROH and others because they don’t feel the ideas presented is right for the company.

What positives? It literally tanked Impact's television and Youtube viewership and buried the shit out of their product, titles, roster, home network, brand, history, etc.

The only positive was a possible short term increase in PPV buys.

[BurningHammer]

You literally watched what AEW did to Impact and decided there's any reason they'd treat ROH any better?

Why?

What possible reason could anyone think AEW would do anything except bury the ever living shit out of ROH just like they have to AAA and Impact?

Because Impact see nothing but positives in all the negatives they experience, they are used to it and make the most out it. ROH has at least, from what I can see made a much stronger effort to change and develop. I think both ROH and AEW have a similar identity enough that can feed well into each other. Also with CM Punk and Danielson, as well as many others I don’t think they would necessarily be inline with fucking over ROH which I imagine would go someway in the higher ups of AEW.

Also ROH I think in general have a stronger back bone these days, it might be that we aren’t seeing anything between ROH and others because they don’t feel the ideas presented is right for the company.

What positives? It literally tanked Impact's television and Youtube viewership and buried the shit out of their product, titles, roster, home network, brand, history, etc.

The only positive was a possible short term increase in PPV buys.

They became part of that ‘world’ and for them that’s important regardless of what anyone thinks. They didn’t do it the right way but that doesn’t mean it cannot or will not work.

You seem to think that everyone is treated the same, that’s not the case in this or any instance in life really.

[famicommander]

Because Impact see nothing but positives in all the negatives they experience, they are used to it and make the most out it. ROH has at least, from what I can see made a much stronger effort to change and develop. I think both ROH and AEW have a similar identity enough that can feed well into each other. Also with CM Punk and Danielson, as well as many others I don’t think they would necessarily be inline with fucking over ROH which I imagine would go someway in the higher ups of AEW.

Also ROH I think in general have a stronger back bone these days, it might be that we aren’t seeing anything between ROH and others because they don’t feel the ideas presented is right for the company.

What positives? It literally tanked Impact's television and Youtube viewership and buried the shit out of their product, titles, roster, home network, brand, history, etc.

The only positive was a possible short term increase in PPV buys.

They became part of that ‘world’ and for them that’s important regardless of what anyone thinks. They didn’t do it the right way but that doesn’t mean it cannot or will not work.

You seem to think that everyone is treated the same, that’s not the case in this or any instance in life really.

I still don't understand what benefit you think Impact got out of this, or why you think ROH would fare better.

Impact sold the farm for AEW's approval and the result they got was way, way worse viewership than what they started with.

[AnHonorableMention]

Not being in a match is one thing; and there are ways to keep someone involved like Ricky Starks. The problem is they simply just have too many wrestlers. People are figuring out their booking habits. Using a guy, only to be in a faction and do run in's... really isn't using a guy in my books. Like what has Dark Order accomplished in the ring in the last 12 months?

Ricky has been hurt, so he's been on tv as an announcer and in promos. Not everyone needs to be on tv every single week. Dark Order refurbished a depressed Hangman Page and happened to lose their leader because HE DIED. All of that led to infighting in the group and failure on television in matches.

I like AEW as much as the next person; but WWE gets called out on everything; and AEW gets a pass on everything. AEW does a lot more right than wrong, imo... which is probably part of it.

WWE gets called out on everything because they've spit in the eye of their audience for the better part of 20 years. AEW is still a shiny new toy. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it the most palatable television product in which legends are treated with respect, talent is having killer matches and making each city feel like a home sports game? Yep.

The other downside to wrestling every 4-6 weeks; is AEW is grabbing some wrestlers in their early 20's... who need more ring time/practice. Or someone like Anthony Ogogo; who has vanished. Someone like DB; and CM Punk, 4-6 weeks between matches make sense. The other thing would be how physical the matches are. Ric Flair was able to wrestle 365 days a year; i'd imagine someone like orange cassidy could do the same with his style

Ogogo is in the UK and has also had several non-public medical issues I don't feel like it's my place to say what they are. You'd be surprised at how many of the 20 somethings AEW signed that still work 3-5 times a week. Daniel Garcia wrestled Minoru Suzuki, CM Punk, Alex Shelley, and Davey Richards in a 7 day period. Not bad. Flair may have been able to wrestle 365 days a year but that isn't a safe or sane way to live and work. I wouldn't wish that on OC or anyone else in the business.

You really can't blame ROH fans for wanting more for the company. (not saying you are) ... but yeah Management doesn't clearly communicate what ROH's plan are. It's smoke and mirrors when leadership speaks. Like when they just stop running shows; with very little info/gameplan. Purely speculation on my behalf; but it doesn't feel like talent is happy either. At least not featured talent. Especially when PCO & Rush are talking about their contracts running out months before.

There was talks a while back about ROH and Forbidden door... but yeah; it's hard to root for ROH now; as it's like cheering for the team in last place. Personally still one of my favorite promotions; but like you said, leadership has no ambition to grow the product; and tell you one thing; and do another.

If you run into a brick wall do you not expect to get hurt? ROH fans now adays what's left of them are either so bitter because they've been lapped by everyone from Impact to AEW to MLW to GCW to NJPW Strong they can't enjoy anything. So yeah they get some blame. If you expect ROH to return the investment you or I make to watch the product every week and the larger events it's incredibly fair to say you're disappointed in Ring of Honor. This was something I NEVER expected to say in my life.

This week on the Tony Schiavone podcast with Conrad they joked about Conrad being the 3rd most powerful man in wrestling. Conrad kept naming names and moving himself down the list. Conrad mentioned Joe Koff(which would have rated him 8th), and both laughed leaving Conrad Thompson ahead of Joe. When the boss is the butt of a joke and has no leg to stand on to defend himself while at the same time taking credit for the success of AEW it's time for a change. I don't know if talent is happy or not, I'd assume those who have jobs want to excel and do their best with what they have, while growing the company. If management doesn't want to do that, it's a slap in the face to everyone beneath the SBG folk. As a Cleveland sports fan I've stopped caring about wins and losses, which is ultimately where I'm at with most of ROH. Emotionally a great match as we've seen doesn't stick out like it used to. Sinclair from what I can tell has realized how much of a money loser the wrestling product is, and is putting in no effort to save it. That's the real tragedy here because good people have jobs on the line and the people with the money don't care enough to respect those people.

On the Forbidden Door front, there is ZERO chance that ever happens. Not because ROH doesn't need or want it, but because of everything surrounding All In and how Joe Koff treated that situation. It also doesn't help when ROH staff is on social media passive aggressively bitching about AEW or accusing them of taking credit when it's in fact due. THAT is some DOI level behavior and in some ways shows why ROH is where it is.

[Shanahan]

On All In, ROH doesn't owe AEW anything. So sick of hearing how Koff needs to kneel down and give Tony what he wants. Fuck that.

[indyfan]

On All In, ROH doesn't owe AEW anything. So sick of hearing how Koff needs to kneel down and give Tony what he wants. Fuck that.

100%

[AnHonorableMention]

On All In, ROH doesn't owe AEW anything. So sick of hearing how Koff needs to kneel down and give Tony what he wants. Fuck that.

Not what I said whatsoever. Has nothing to do with anything revolving around the event, the production, the rights.

[DougN]

People really started showing the true meaning behind their criticism and dislike of AEW in this thread the last few days.

[Shanahan]

People really started showing the true meaning behind their criticism and dislike of AEW in this thread the last few days.

Some people have opinions that don't align with AEW Lapdogs....oh no....come on dude. Aew does a ton of good things but they also do dumb shit. The fact they have the wrestling "journalists" in their back pocket because they learned if you kiss their ass you get good coverage doesn't mean me or anyone else has to kiss their ass. I like TK better than Koff. Doesn't mean i can't criticize TK when i find his statements dumb.

[AnHonorableMention]

People really started showing the true meaning behind their criticism and dislike of AEW in this thread the last few days.

Some people have opinions that don't align with AEW Lapdogs....oh no....come on dude. Aew does a ton of good things but they also do dumb shit. The fact they have the wrestling "journalists" in their back pocket because they learned if you kiss their ass you get good coverage doesn't mean me or anyone else has to kiss their ass. I like TK better than Koff. Doesn't mean i can't criticize TK when i find his statements dumb.

A pro wrestling Tucker Carlson take.

[AnHonorableMention]

People really started showing the true meaning behind their criticism and dislike of AEW in this thread the last few days.

People can like or dislike what they choose, if they have a reasonable counter point as to why. When there is an absence of logic and an element of bitterness there's no reason to even acknowledge those people. Same can be said for those who don't like ROH or anything in general.

[Shanahan]

People really started showing the true meaning behind their criticism and dislike of AEW in this thread the last few days.

Some people have opinions that don't align with AEW Lapdogs....oh no....come on dude. Aew does a ton of good things but they also do dumb shit. The fact they have the wrestling "journalists" in their back pocket because they learned if you kiss their ass you get good coverage doesn't mean me or anyone else has to kiss their ass. I like TK better than Koff. Doesn't mean i can't criticize TK when i find his statements dumb.

A pro wrestling Tucker Carlson take.

This is probably your worst reply ever. I expect much more from you.

[AnHonorableMention]

Some people have opinions that don't align with AEW Lapdogs....oh no....come on dude. Aew does a ton of good things but they also do dumb shit. The fact they have the wrestling "journalists" in their back pocket because they learned if you kiss their ass you get good coverage doesn't mean me or anyone else has to kiss their ass. I like TK better than Koff. Doesn't mean i can't criticize TK when i find his statements dumb.

A pro wrestling Tucker Carlson take.

This is probably your worst reply ever. I expect much more from you.

Any time you accuse journalists of taking money to cover things favorably in any aspect, excluding the news networks aimed at certain political groups, I'm going to tell you it's nonsense, Tucker Carlson level nonsense.

[DougN]

Yeah, I agree with that. The whole "wrestling journalists in their back pocket" is such a bad take, especially when said journalists have very loudly and blatantly taken AEW to task on a number of things. Two pop right into my mind with the Matt Hardy injury fiasco and then the Dark Order phantom punches angle. But no, wrestling journalists aren't throwing their hands up in disgust over AEW hiring Bobby Fish as a sign that AEW is again continue to hoard talent like WWE or, to a lesser extent, Lucha Underground even did.

My point is that a lot of the complaints post-Bobby Fish seem to be rooted from either a disgust over AEW forming with ROH stars or AEW locking ROH out of the forbidden door stuff, or BOTH.

AEW is a hot promotion. Yeah, they have faults, just like every hot promotion in history, but this constant need to shit on them or find something minuscule to blow out of proportion is just maddening.

[AnHonorableMention]

Yeah, I agree with that. The whole "wrestling journalists in their back pocket" is such a bad take, especially when said journalists have very loudly and blatantly taken AEW to task on a number of things. Two pop right into my mind with the Matt Hardy injury fiasco and then the Dark Order phantom punches angle. But no, wrestling journalists aren't throwing their hands up in disgust over AEW hiring Bobby Fish as a sign that AEW is again continue to hoard talent like WWE or, to a lesser extent, Lucha Underground even did.

My point is that a lot of the complaints post-Bobby Fish seem to be rooted from either a disgust over AEW forming with ROH stars or AEW locking ROH out of the forbidden door stuff, or BOTH.

AEW is a hot promotion. Yeah, they have faults, just like every hot promotion in history, but this constant need to shit on them or find something minuscule to blow out of proportion is just maddening.

To be fair I'm not thrilled at the Bob Q. Fish hiring either.

[DougN]

Yeah, I'm not wild on the QAnon thing too, but I don't really want to single him out when there are others in AEW with the same belief. Or ones in AEW who are best friends with avid Q freaks.