Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[famicommander]

Their second TV show and second Youtube show haven't even started yet. Soon they will be at four shows per week, possibly two hours or more each. Not counting PPV, BTE, or other web content.

[Montana]

It sounds like the current dark show, is just getting split into two shows. AEW is on the borderline of getting to too much content , once all that rolls out; BUT currently i don't like how they are rolling storylines with Impact as well. If they want to expand their content, i think that's fine; but working with other companies too, it gets confusing/too much imo.

Whenever i do watch any of dark, it seems completely skippable to me. No real storyline progression; unless you count Peter Avalon/Brandon Cutler. It's basically squash matches, to pad stats... or to go a look at new talent. I'd follow it closer if it was like a B show to Dynamite... but currently i'm pretty satisfied with just watching Dynamite with AEW.

[NewROHFan2020]

The content is there if you want it, doesn’t mean you have to watch it.

[maxx_powerz]

The content is there if you want it, doesn’t mean you have to watch it.

Agreed. It looks kind of silly on a schedule but hell, if ROH put their YouTube stuff on a schedule when they were doing Future of Honor and Women of Honor it wouldn't have looked that different during a PPV week. This is mostly supplemental content.

[AnHonorableMention]

Good lord. Who has time for this?

The women's show on Sunday is on demand, and can be seen whenever, it's an hour. Road to is like 10 minutes, Dark well is what it is, non-essential viewing. 3 hour block Wednesday is nothing, Thursday pod is 45 min, not timely, so on demand, same Dark as Tuesday for friday, non-essential, PPV Sunday. Every promotion should strive to have this much content.

Is anyone surprised Jeff comes swooping in to defend AEW....lmao. I get a kick out of it.

I don't know your reading level but I literally voided out two entire days on that schedule as non-essential and mentioned something being not timely. What exactly am I defending?

[EvanKnight]

It is in interesting question, what is the “sweet spot” for weekly content? I think everyone agrees 1 hour a week is too little. I’m of the impression that too much “can miss” can be detrimental to the overall option of the company, but there is something to be said about keeping a large depth of people that can be rotated. I think the ROH ideal is a 2-hour main show, a 1 hour B show and then keeping week-by-week as a recap/lite-hearted info/dark match show would be about perfect.

Or better yet a monthly clash of the champions type show on honor club would be great.

[NewROHFan2020]

It is in interesting question, what is the “sweet spot” for weekly content? I think everyone agrees 1 hour a week is too little. I’m of the impression that too much “can miss” can be detrimental to the overall option of the company, but there is something to be said about keeping a large depth of people that can be rotated. I think the ROH ideal is a 2-hour main show, a 1 hour B show and then keeping week-by-week as a recap/lite-hearted info/dark match show would be about perfect.

Or better yet a monthly clash of the champions type show on honor club would be great.

I think it depends on the promotion. For organizations like NWA and MLW, 1 hour is enough. I don’t know if ROH is at a 2 hour level yet. It’s close. I don’t think they have enough wrestlers to do it week after week. They definitely need something other than a PPV every 3 months. I stupidly paid for the year subscription of HonorClub last February and it’s been a total waste of money. If they’re going to do 4 PPVs a year, I’ll be subscribing for 4 months a year.

[Shanahan]

The biggest problem with Dark is fact it includes stuff that makes it's way onto Dynamite where the announcers assume you know why the match or angle is happening. Like Avalon fueding with Lee Johnson. Started on Dark for weeks and then moves to Dynamite. The storyline sucks but if you skip Dark you would go "why are these 2 fueding and why is Bononi with Avalon???"

[Montana]

It is in interesting question, what is the “sweet spot” for weekly content? I think everyone agrees 1 hour a week is too little. I’m of the impression that too much “can miss” can be detrimental to the overall option of the company, but there is something to be said about keeping a large depth of people that can be rotated. I think the ROH ideal is a 2-hour main show, a 1 hour B show and then keeping week-by-week as a recap/lite-hearted info/dark match show would be about perfect.

Or better yet a monthly clash of the champions type show on honor club would be great.

I think it depends on the promotion. For organizations like NWA and MLW, 1 hour is enough. I don’t know if ROH is at a 2 hour level yet. It’s close. I don’t think they have enough wrestlers to do it week after week. They definitely need something other than a PPV every 3 months. I stupidly paid for the year subscription of HonorClub last February and it’s been a total waste of money. If they’re going to do 4 PPVs a year, I’ll be subscribing for 4 months a year.

I'm in a similar boat with HonorClub. I got a year last March. You should have been extended 3 months; from when the pandemic first happened. I never got extended the 3 months; and i asked them if they would extend the subscription further; since there was about 9 months in between live events. They said, they couldn't at the time... kind of implying to check back later. Hopefully ROH does the right thing, but likely be a case by case basis. 3 months is better than nothing, but don't think them extending another 3-6 months would really hurt things. These are your "hardcore" fans... so you'd think they'd take care of us. (Especially considering how they worded their note when the pandemic first hit. I don't see them running too many live events in 2021 anyways, monthly at most.

" For existing HonorClub members, we thank you for your loyalty and we know you subscribed so you can watch ROH events LIVE as they happen. Don’t worry, we got you covered! Starting April 1st, we will extend your current term automatically by a period of 90 days to cover the months of March, April, and May!"

The "Don't worry" we got you covered and "we know you subscribed so you can watch ROH events LIVE as they happen" should imply they should credit more than 3 months.

[BurningHammer]

I am oh so very happy to see them teasing getting Amy Rose out of LFI, hopefully it comes off as she doesn’t work at all in anyway with the group and she needs something new drastically. King is almost starting to work he just needs to get a new mask or rid of it entirely.

and the ending to the Tag match was just so lame and unnecessary, no way should that have ever gotten through creative and honestly lessons what happened at the end of the night. Think ROH needs to have a re-think on how much of this stuff they should be airing on each episode and week to week as that’s close to 4 weeks of screwy finishes. Granted mostly involving LFI but there needs to range in what you do through out a show and this felt overload for an hour.

[McXal]

Agree entirely. I was considerably less enthusiastic about this week’s episode in my review than many critics I’ve seen. Already Delirious is starting to slip back into his old habits of constant low-level screwy finishes. I hate it. Even making allowances for LFI being pushed as polar ideological opposites to The Foundation...

It’s such a crux of Delirious that he so rarely books big World Title Matches to have clean finishes - even moreso if the heel goes over. It’s like he doesn’t trust either his workers, or the fan base (or both) to react as he’d like, so feels the need to meddle. Or like he has never grasped the concept that, even if a heel champ goes over clean, if you back off and let your guys have a straight-up great match then you do far more to ‘protect’ or create a buzz around rising talents like Taylor, or promote your villainous champ as a top star.

The fact that Rush is now the 6th longest reigning World Champ (or something along those lines, as per Ian R’s commentary), has been in ROH for 2 years and been presented as a top guy throughout - the fact that he’s still to have a truly defining, iconic, ‘MOTYC’ level match (or been put in a position where he even has a chance to do so) is really poor.

[AnHonorableMention]

Agree entirely. I was considerably less enthusiastic about this week’s episode in my review than many critics I’ve seen. Already Delirious is starting to slip back into his old habits of constant low-level screwy finishes. I hate it. Even making allowances for LFI being pushed as polar ideological opposites to The Foundation...

It’s such a crux of Delirious that he so rarely books big World Title Matches to have clean finishes - even moreso if the heel goes over. It’s like he doesn’t trust either his workers, or the fan base (or both) to react as he’d like, so feels the need to meddle. Or like he has never grasped the concept that, even if a heel champ goes over clean, if you back off and let your guys have a straight-up great match then you do far more to ‘protect’ or create a buzz around rising talents like Taylor, or promote your villainous champ as a top star.

The fact that Rush is now the 6th longest reigning World Champ (or something along those lines, as per Ian R’s commentary), has been in ROH for 2 years and been presented as a top guy throughout - the fact that he’s still to have a truly defining, iconic, ‘MOTYC’ level match (or been put in a position where he even has a chance to do so) is really poor.

Funny you mention this because in reviewing Reloaded Tour 2015 California, PA 9/25/15, the same point on Delirious lazy booking was made. 6 years later here we are again. I even took one of your review quotes and used it. Felt appropriate to credit the author of such detailed logic as to why he's out of ideas so often.

As for content. You can never have enough content when there is a demand for it. Look at the youtube dynamics, monetization of content is big with fans being absent. The company surely wouldn't mind adding extra dollars on content they already have, just like the Cinemark deal. This is called smart business. Maybe Joe or Greg want to sit under Tony's learning tree for a few months.

[BurningHammer]

I don’t think the decisions Delirious are bad overall in the context of the whole product especially if they are leading somewhere. It’s more how
close together we have seen them, now if there were three or four episodes between each time we’ve had a screw finish It would feel fresh or at least connected to that particular group. Having each one after the other and two in one episode is overkill and just devalued the product. Overall actually really liked the Kenny King ‘swerve’ felt it had a lot to it, too make it something ROH can really build off.Though how Bestia is just allowed to walk to the ring with a chair is beyond me that’s the bit that rankles the most from that segment.

My problems with his booking decisions, especially endings/finishes to matches are they usually meant nothing or didn’t go anywhere. They also tend to feel really flat, case in point the end to the tag match it’s just a stupid finish, you could have just kicked in the nuts or even wrap a chain around fist make it a tougher stronger angle rather than a working punch.

Also that cinema idea is just insane considering COVID, just how on earth that is found to be acceptable is beyond me.

[Lynx]

Well at least it looks like these cases will go "somewhere". LFI vs Foundation is being built up and it looks like they might do an extended Taylor/Kenny feud.

[Montana]

As for content. You can never have enough content when there is a demand for it. Look at the youtube dynamics, monetization of content is big with fans being absent. The company surely wouldn't mind adding extra dollars on content they already have, just like the Cinemark deal. This is called smart business. Maybe Joe or Greg want to sit under Tony's learning tree for a few months.

It's a good idea for AEW; however poor timing with COVID, and people gathering in places. In reality ROH couldnt even do that now; if it was an option. ROH's fanbase isn't wide enough to cover this an an option. Not to mention they charge 9.99 for HonorClub, compared to AEW's 50$ PPV deal. So why would an ROH fan pay more to see it in a movie theater when most people home set ups are just as good.

Yes, i'm sure there are more things that ROH could be doing to generate more revenue, but AEW will most likely always being willing to spend more; and can take more changes/risk. Personally i think ROH should be working to get it's fanbase back; and it's probably going to be at the expense of the company. Free shows like Free Enterprise; and other efforts like this. They seem to be doing a pretty good job at building back up and building some good will. Things are perfect; but better than 2019 thus far.

As i mentioned a month or two ago; had concerns with the booking with the reliance on DQ's and false finishes is getting a bit annoying. I get LFI are heels; but no reason to cram it down our throats in every match. To be fair, it is free TV... but like when that's like all you got... it can be a bit underwhelming. They were building Rush better on his way to becoming champ, and now, he cheats every time. I'm just hoping they build the PPV up well; and again, they need to hit home runs on these PPV's. Not singles, doubles, triples... but aim for home run shows. If they get HonorClub right; they could be a pillar of the company.... but they need to draw fans back in.

[NewROHFan2020]

Unless you live in a rural area or have no high speed internet access, I don’t get how a PPV event being shown at a movie theater in 2021 is something to be proud of. Concessions are expensive and limited (most standard theaters) and each person pays their own admission. Much cheaper to host a someone’s house and get your own food. All of us have been watching PPVs at homes for years, not like movies where a big screen is a preferred experience for most.

[famicommander]

I saw Bound for Glory in a theater one year. Ticket was like 1/5 the price of the actual PPV. My uncle and I were the only ones there.

[kovs27]

Brian Johnson challenges Dragon Lee for the tv title on ROH youtube channel starting at 7pm EST

[AnHonorableMention]

As for content. You can never have enough content when there is a demand for it. Look at the youtube dynamics, monetization of content is big with fans being absent. The company surely wouldn't mind adding extra dollars on content they already have, just like the Cinemark deal. This is called smart business. Maybe Joe or Greg want to sit under Tony's learning tree for a few months.

It's a good idea for AEW; however poor timing with COVID, and people gathering in places. In reality ROH couldnt even do that now; if it was an option. ROH's fanbase isn't wide enough to cover this an an option. Not to mention they charge 9.99 for HonorClub, compared to AEW's 50$ PPV deal. So why would an ROH fan pay more to see it in a movie theater when most people home set ups are just as good.

Yes, i'm sure there are more things that ROH could be doing to generate more revenue, but AEW will most likely always being willing to spend more; and can take more changes/risk. Personally i think ROH should be working to get it's fanbase back; and it's probably going to be at the expense of the company. Free shows like Free Enterprise; and other efforts like this. They seem to be doing a pretty good job at building back up and building some good will. Things are perfect; but better than 2019 thus far.

As i mentioned a month or two ago; had concerns with the booking with the reliance on DQ's and false finishes is getting a bit annoying. I get LFI are heels; but no reason to cram it down our throats in every match. To be fair, it is free TV... but like when that's like all you got... it can be a bit underwhelming. They were building Rush better on his way to becoming champ, and now, he cheats every time. I'm just hoping they build the PPV up well; and again, they need to hit home runs on these PPV's. Not singles, doubles, triples... but aim for home run shows. If they get HonorClub right; they could be a pillar of the company.... but they need to draw fans back in.

As a business owner, I can tell you one adjustment I've made with contracts is instead of a one year or one time fee, I've expanded options to include multi-year options. Ideally, in a year movie theaters are a thing again and this proves to be beneficial. Cinemark is still in operation and when you consider business deals are rarely about today, but more about long term at that level, this has very positive standpoints. This deal is a partnership where cinemark is paying for content to get butts in seats if you will.

ROH needs to not limit itself to any aspect of business, if anything they need to open their ears and eyes to any avenue from the toy market to eyes on the product. The roster can hit homeruns left and right, but there are also guys who belong on the minor league bench, which includes the guy booking and his bosses.

[Montana]

I agree. Think it's a good deal with Cinemark; just don't agree with them pushing for fans in the stands & gathering at the movies right now. 3-6 months from now, may be a different story.

Yeah, ROH should be trying some different things to generate some funds. They actually added some premium Bandido mask for 300-500$. I wouldn't completely try and burn out their audiences wallets; but try some new stuff and see what works now. They should aim to have about 100K fans; if not more. No reason they can't compete with Impact; other than their TV deal.