Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[monster mafia]

I know a few people here want roh to go back to how it was when it first started but like every promotion it has to evolve while still sticking to its original roots that the only way to grow your fanbase

What the fuck does this even mean? Here's the deal, ROH died the day Sinclair bought it. It's the same 3 letters but the soul is dead & buried. If you want Big Dick Johnson to come in with his Vince McMahon/Bruce Prichard ideas and write after however many years of fuckery from Delirious fine. You are the absolute most oblivious type of fan, one that doesn't get it, because you have no clue how to move forward and when they do you'll bitch and complain. I should never have taken this guy off unblock.

Chill.

[BurningHammer]

Evolve may be dead so I hope JD Drake heads to ROH.

1000% yes for JD, if you want a white dude that drinks but can actually go in the ring he is your man. Great pro all round it seems and deserves the break.

[monster mafia]

JD Drake and Chris Hero, thats all i want.

[Montana]

I'm 100% on board with JD Drake. I've gotten to see him wrestle live numerous times, and he lives to to his tag name of a workhorse. If WWE doesn't see value in JD Drake and Anthony Henry, i guarantee someone else will. And to be fair, i'm not sure they are what WWE needs right now. WWE needs they next big thing, not two extremely talented workhorse type wrestlers as they've got dozens of them on the roster already.

100% on board with Chris Hero too. Give him a major role as producer/road agent/trainer.

Did someone say they would catch ChrisVegas complain and bitch in the future?? Maybe it's me, but i've NEVER seen the dude bitch, and he wants the product to good. The problem is there are two different views of what is successful. Certainly there HAS been a booking problem. We THINK it's fixed at the moment. Who really knows if that dude is actually creative, or just a Vince yes man. Like someone else pointed out, Marty would likely hire someone he knows/trust. I get where Honorable mention is coming from, and most likely that dude's creative is not the creative ROH needs... but at the same time, don't get mad if someone wants ROH to be more like Impact vs. original ROH. Think we all need to come to terms, that the old ROH isn't coming back, and the new era ROH is still pretty good and has been pretty good over the years. The biggest downfall, has been their lack of wanting to invest in the product and online infrastructure in my opinion. Plus ROH has spawned NXT and AEW... so that's pretty impressive in itself.

[Chrisvegas27]

I know alex gracia is being promoted by roh is she part of the women division just like nicole savoy but i havent heard of savoy actually signed a contract

[AnHonorableMention]

I know a few people here want roh to go back to how it was when it first started but like every promotion it has to evolve while still sticking to its original roots that the only way to grow your fanbase

What the fuck does this even mean? Here's the deal, ROH died the day Sinclair bought it. It's the same 3 letters but the soul is dead & buried. If you want Big Dick Johnson to come in with his Vince McMahon/Bruce Prichard ideas and write after however many years of fuckery from Delirious fine. You are the absolute most oblivious type of fan, one that doesn't get it, because you have no clue how to move forward and when they do you'll bitch and complain. I should never have taken this guy off unblock.

Chill.

Thanks mom.

[AnHonorableMention]

I'm 100% on board with JD Drake. I've gotten to see him wrestle live numerous times, and he lives to to his tag name of a workhorse. If WWE doesn't see value in JD Drake and Anthony Henry, i guarantee someone else will. And to be fair, i'm not sure they are what WWE needs right now. WWE needs they next big thing, not two extremely talented workhorse type wrestlers as they've got dozens of them on the roster already.

100% on board with Chris Hero too. Give him a major role as producer/road agent/trainer.

Did someone say they would catch ChrisVegas complain and bitch in the future?? Maybe it's me, but i've NEVER seen the dude bitch, and he wants the product to good. The problem is there are two different views of what is successful. Certainly there HAS been a booking problem. We THINK it's fixed at the moment. Who really knows if that dude is actually creative, or just a Vince yes man. Like someone else pointed out, Marty would likely hire someone he knows/trust. I get where Honorable mention is coming from, and most likely that dude's creative is not the creative ROH needs... but at the same time, don't get mad if someone wants ROH to be more like Impact vs. original ROH. Think we all need to come to terms, that the old ROH isn't coming back, and the new era ROH is still pretty good and has been pretty good over the years. The biggest downfall, has been their lack of wanting to invest in the product and online infrastructure in my opinion. Plus ROH has spawned NXT and AEW... so that's pretty impressive in itself.

Drake is great, and Henry was supposed to be in before he reupped with Evolve. Hero I can't comment on because I have a pretty good idea what direction he's headed in once he's ready to go again.

Also ChrisVegas is the worst type of fan there is. Throws out random ideas and pretty much makes stuff up he thinks he's heard or read. There's a reason I've had him on ignore for so long. The only success in wrestling is being profitable. Right now ROH is not. Nobody is, but when you blow the entire MSG profit in a year you ran MSG you have real problems. The spending has only gotten more absurd(see Matt Taven).

The thing with Chris DeJoseph even being a suggestion has nothing to do with ideas or beliefs but more the dude was fired for misconduct not once, not twice, but three times. He also was dismissed from MLW and from Lucha Underground, before being brought back. For a company with a seemingly endless list of problems creatively, why even suggest that guy who doesn't even respect himself be hired?

I also wouldn't be proud to have spawned other more profitable and exciting companies either. It shows you can't do it on your own or don't know how and talents felt they could succeed elsewhere.

[Montana]

I'm 100% on board with JD Drake. I've gotten to see him wrestle live numerous times, and he lives to to his tag name of a workhorse. If WWE doesn't see value in JD Drake and Anthony Henry, i guarantee someone else will. And to be fair, i'm not sure they are what WWE needs right now. WWE needs they next big thing, not two extremely talented workhorse type wrestlers as they've got dozens of them on the roster already.

100% on board with Chris Hero too. Give him a major role as producer/road agent/trainer.

Did someone say they would catch ChrisVegas complain and bitch in the future?? Maybe it's me, but i've NEVER seen the dude bitch, and he wants the product to good. The problem is there are two different views of what is successful. Certainly there HAS been a booking problem. We THINK it's fixed at the moment. Who really knows if that dude is actually creative, or just a Vince yes man. Like someone else pointed out, Marty would likely hire someone he knows/trust. I get where Honorable mention is coming from, and most likely that dude's creative is not the creative ROH needs... but at the same time, don't get mad if someone wants ROH to be more like Impact vs. original ROH. Think we all need to come to terms, that the old ROH isn't coming back, and the new era ROH is still pretty good and has been pretty good over the years. The biggest downfall, has been their lack of wanting to invest in the product and online infrastructure in my opinion. Plus ROH has spawned NXT and AEW... so that's pretty impressive in itself.

Drake is great, and Henry was supposed to be in before he reupped with Evolve. Hero I can't comment on because I have a pretty good idea what direction he's headed in once he's ready to go again.

Also ChrisVegas is the worst type of fan there is. Throws out random ideas and pretty much makes stuff up he thinks he's heard or read. There's a reason I've had him on ignore for so long. The only success in wrestling is being profitable. Right now ROH is not. Nobody is, but when you blow the entire MSG profit in a year you ran MSG you have real problems. The spending has only gotten more absurd(see Matt Taven).

The thing with Chris DeJoseph even being a suggestion has nothing to do with ideas or beliefs but more the dude was fired for misconduct not once, not twice, but three times. He also was dismissed from MLW and from Lucha Underground, before being brought back. For a company with a seemingly endless list of problems creatively, why even suggest that guy who doesn't even respect himself be hired?

I also wouldn't be proud to have spawned other more profitable and exciting companies either. It shows you can't do it on your own or don't know how and talents felt they could succeed elsewhere.

I agree with most of the points here. Hopefully the Evolve situation works out for everyone. I know they didn't have a huge roster, but certianly a lot of talented performers with potential.

I think the problem is that you attack ChrisVegas personally.... instead of his ideas/suggestions. I agree that guy he suggest would not add much of value. But , in his eyes someone with WWE writing experience, could help ROHs issue. I assume he didn't know his full resume with when he's gotten hired/fired from every company. As 99% of wrestling fans wouldn't. Excellent research on it him. With what you said, yeah seems like a bad fit. Long story short.... blocking him is fine; but dont take it out on him personally. There's probably only like a dozen people that post here to begin with. We lose one, and the site his near extinction.

Good Points about ROH overspending in certain areas...especially lately when business is down.

NXT hasn't been profitable though. PLus AEW has basically been breaking even with potential to be profitable down the road. I think it's fair to say they've been more successful/exciting to the mass market. At the end of the day.... in reality.... Whomever spends the most money SHOULD be the most successful. Look at it over the years. WWF spent a ton and bought out the territories... they were most successful. WCW bought all the WWF older stars, with a massive payroll...they were more successful and went out of business. WWE picked right back up. TNA could never match the WWE in terms of funding. Now AEW is here, and Vince knows money will win the war. Talent will win the war. ROH has never taken the risk of injecting a lot of money into the company. That's why they have always been historically a #3 promotion. They made it to #2 kind of by default, with TNA/Impact running out of money. But i truly believe , about 90-95% of it comes down to how much you invest in the product and having knowledge leadership.

Even look at Impact now... they've been investing more money (with competent leadership) they are gaining traction and i think it's a fair argument between ROH and Impact as the #3 promotion now. I think once ROH gets back on track in 2020, it may be a different story... i have to say IMpacts overall presentation and package, is a solid foundation. ROH has kind of been phoning it in, in terms of improving the presentation the last 5 years or so.... now look where we are... several changes (dozen) changes are required.

[monster mafia]

yesssssss henry headed to roh, the scoop dumb guy is finally right.

[NewROHFan2020]

Where are you all getting these financial numbers from?

“AEW is breaking even”

“ROH blew all their ROH profit in 1 year”

[monster mafia]

Where are you all getting these financial numbers from?

“AEW is breaking even”

“ROH blew all their ROH profit in 1 year”

Imaginethings.com

[Montana]

Where are you all getting these financial numbers from?

“AEW is breaking even”

“ROH blew all their ROH profit in 1 year”

I said the part about AEW breaking even... it was from Meltzer. Bits and snippets via YT. Basically as i understood, before COVID, they were on pace to make a profit in year 2 (2020).... now that COVID hit, TV is covering most production and EVP salaries, i believe. The PPV numbers, and Merchandise numbers have been good. They are breaking even now, (which is really good for a start up) especially given the COVID stuff. AEW has built a nice foundation. The renewed TNT deal, although not super lucrative, it keeps them on TNT for a few more years, and remain relevant.

As for ROH blew all their profit in 1 year.... i think someone else said, but i think that's fairly true. I've heard they are paying Taven and Marty in the 500-750K range. Which is a lot of money, considering how poorly 2019 ticket sales were. I assume ROH has been fairly profitable 2015-18, thus have a bank of money they are dipping into now. Just my speculation... but i'm pretty confident ROH lost money in 2019 after those big new contracts, and 2020 with COVID. The problem ROH has, is that SBG has all the money, and basically they want ROH to be self sufficient, and keep cost down. Which is why ROH hasn't done as much upgrades as they probably should have the last 5 years. So i believe, (purely speculation) Joe Koff/Greg asked SBG for more money, to help get more exposure for the company. Plus with the Fox SPorts deal.... they need wrestlers, and the climate is forcing ROH to overpay.

It's all speculation based on hear say... until they are like WWE. But these sound like reasonable assessments.

[NewROHFan2020]

Meltzer is fine for rating matches and stuff, but his “reporting” is all 2/3rd hand info. He once said Mabel has being considered to be the nWo 3rd man. Also that Nitro was going to be taped 3 weeks at a time and was going to be called something else.

AEW isn’t going to tell anyone they’re losing $20 million or whatever, they’re gonna say they’re “breaking even”. Perception is reality. Same with ROH, unless you have the CFO’s numbers, it’s just rumors. If ROH is signing Flip Gordon without running any shows, they’re fine. Don’t let people with a grudge tell you any less.

Look at Impact, they’ve been “going out of business” for 15+ years. People still shit on Impact for no reason, other than “it’s cool to do”.

[Montana]

Meltzer is fine for rating matches and stuff, but his “reporting” is all 2/3rd hand info. He once said Mabel has being considered to be the nWo 3rd man. Also that Nitro was going to be taped 3 weeks at a time and was going to be called something else.

AEW isn’t going to tell anyone they’re losing $20 million or whatever, they’re gonna say they’re “breaking even”. Perception is reality. Same with ROH, unless you have the CFO’s numbers, it’s just rumors. If ROH is signing Flip Gordon without running any shows, they’re fine. Don’t let people with a grudge tell you any less.

Look at Impact, they’ve been “going out of business” for 15+ years. People still shit on Impact for no reason, other than “it’s cool to do”.

I hear you.... i take what he says with a grain of salt... i will say he is closer with AEW than most promotions. I know he isn't going to paint them in a bad light. Losing 5-10 million, could be considered "breaking even" to even as certain expensive don't count. I get it. As of now, that's the best info that's out there. There is nothing that says AEW is losing 20 Million, and if they were, they probably wouln't have signed Hardy, Brodie, FTR, Brian Cage, etc. Overall i think AEW is fine at the moment, and potentially better once live shows resume.

Yes, on Impact. They deny all rules in terms of financial success. My guess is when a big corporation owns them, they can write off loses and wipe the slate clean. My guess is that they've done this, when new leadership took over. So they've been been able to show they they've grown the past few years.


Could be nothing... but i heard 2/3rd hand that Zack Ryder and ROH might happen. I think it make sense, since him and Marty are friends. Think he'd fit in perfectly now, in the area of trying to improve YT and social media presence. Other name being rumored being Mike Bennett. No surprise there. I imagine some will dislike the Zack Ryder potential signing...
but i'm for it. He's got a huge passion for the business, and a veteran, still young enough to give back to the business. I can imagine they can do some pretty creative stuff with him too.

[NewROHFan2020]

I’m not saying AEW is losing $20,000,000; just threw out a number. Just saying that they will say something like breaking even, but there is no report to say otherwise.

[AnHonorableMention]

Where are you all getting these financial numbers from?

“AEW is breaking even”

“ROH blew all their ROH profit in 1 year”

AEW isn't even close to breaking even yet. Probably won't for a year or more. The MSG profit and loss numbers for the remainder of 2019 came from someone who works for the company on the business side I am close with.

[AnHonorableMention]

Where are you all getting these financial numbers from?

“AEW is breaking even”

“ROH blew all their ROH profit in 1 year”

I said the part about AEW breaking even... it was from Meltzer. Bits and snippets via YT. Basically as i understood, before COVID, they were on pace to make a profit in year 2 (2020).... now that COVID hit, TV is covering most production and EVP salaries, i believe. The PPV numbers, and Merchandise numbers have been good. They are breaking even now, (which is really good for a start up) especially given the COVID stuff. AEW has built a nice foundation. The renewed TNT deal, although not super lucrative, it keeps them on TNT for a few more years, and remain relevant.

As for ROH blew all their profit in 1 year.... i think someone else said, but i think that's fairly true. I've heard they are paying Taven and Marty in the 500-750K range. Which is a lot of money, considering how poorly 2019 ticket sales were. I assume ROH has been fairly profitable 2015-18, thus have a bank of money they are dipping into now. Just my speculation... but i'm pretty confident ROH lost money in 2019 after those big new contracts, and 2020 with COVID. The problem ROH has, is that SBG has all the money, and basically they want ROH to be self sufficient, and keep cost down. Which is why ROH hasn't done as much upgrades as they probably should have the last 5 years. So i believe, (purely speculation) Joe Koff/Greg asked SBG for more money, to help get more exposure for the company. Plus with the Fox SPorts deal.... they need wrestlers, and the climate is forcing ROH to overpay.

It's all speculation based on hear say... until they are like WWE. But these sound like reasonable assessments.

1. You are correct on year 2 being the profit year but it wouldn't be until the end of the year, if the pace continued. TNT deal was a big part of that.

2. Marty is way north of those numbers.

[BurningHammer]

I would think that Ryder is more than set for AEW/Impact. Not saying he won’t show up in ROH but unless Ryder wants to prove himself, showing he can go (which apparently has been the image Marty primarily wants to set for ROH) I would just be surprised especially with how he would fit into that environment, when his personality is so driven by fans and their reaction he could come off very flat with no fans there and if he doesn’t perform in the ring. I think Danhausen is as far as I want ROH to go in a certain direction.

Bennett seems pretty likely overall, with Vincent’s group, Taven needs some reinforcements and Bennett would fit in with that whole story really well. The aged old friendship angle could really develop into something special considering how long they’ve all known each other.

The thing is in the current TV climate if you can provide constant content with a certain viewer number I think most companies are happy to take whatever they can get. I mean the average viewership for AEW is a couple of hundred thousand more than what ROH was doing in Destination America (granted those were their highest numbers) it still isn’t exactly a hugely impressive number. I would believe ROH to Sinclair is probably one of their highest rated products generally and if they can keep within a certain range the money thing isn’t really too much of an issue as long as it isn’t ridiculous.

[Montana]

I would think that Ryder is more than set for AEW/Impact. Not saying he won’t show up in ROH but unless Ryder wants to prove himself, showing he can go (which apparently has been the image Marty primarily wants to set for ROH) I would just be surprised especially with how he would fit into that environment, when his personality is so driven by fans and their reaction he could come off very flat with no fans there and if he doesn’t perform in the ring. I think Danhausen is as far as I want ROH to go in a certain direction.

Bennett seems pretty likely overall, with Vincent’s group, Taven needs some reinforcements and Bennett would fit in with that whole story really well. The aged old friendship angle could really develop into something special considering how long they’ve all known each other.

The thing is in the current TV climate if you can provide constant content with a certain viewer number I think most companies are happy to take whatever they can get. I mean the average viewership for AEW is a couple of hundred thousand more than what ROH was doing in Destination America (granted those were their highest numbers) it still isn’t exactly a hugely impressive number. I would believe ROH to Sinclair is probably one of their highest rated products generally and if they can keep within a certain range the money thing isn’t really too much of an issue as long as it isn’t ridiculous.

I agree Ryder seems like a better fit AEW/Impact. If he does end up in ROH, there could be worse FA hires.

Bennett seems like a logical get. Maybe after its over you could turn Taven on Bennett or vice - versa down the road.

Those ROH TV numbers are surprising. I wonder what they do now. Personally i'd be kind of surprised if they did 100K weekly... but i have no clue. Realistically how many people do you think are on Honorclub?? Maybe 2K? Maybe 10K on the high side. I could be way off, but it doesn't seem like 50K subscribers... Seems like YT hits on their videos can get about 2-4K in the first day. That's why i would guess that's around the HC subscribers.

Also i meant 500-750K a year (2x) for Marty/Taven... If Marty is getting over 1M a year, i'm going to fall out of my chair. If he can right the ship, he deserves it. If Tavens above 500K annually... thats surprising all around too. You figure 40 shows a year. That's about 12-13K per match/show . I imagine the average ticket sales per event is around 20-25K (500-600 fans @ average ticket price 40$) I'd say on their bigger shows, they pull in more.... but seems like Taven shouldn't be half their budget of what they draw for a live event. Not to mention when other stars contracts are up (Briscoes/Lethal/etc) they are going to want to be paid the same.

[BurningHammer]

I would think that Ryder is more than set for AEW/Impact. Not saying he won’t show up in ROH but unless Ryder wants to prove himself, showing he can go (which apparently has been the image Marty primarily wants to set for ROH) I would just be surprised especially with how he would fit into that environment, when his personality is so driven by fans and their reaction he could come off very flat with no fans there and if he doesn’t perform in the ring. I think Danhausen is as far as I want ROH to go in a certain direction.

Bennett seems pretty likely overall, with Vincent’s group, Taven needs some reinforcements and Bennett would fit in with that whole story really well. The aged old friendship angle could really develop into something special considering how long they’ve all known each other.

The thing is in the current TV climate if you can provide constant content with a certain viewer number I think most companies are happy to take whatever they can get. I mean the average viewership for AEW is a couple of hundred thousand more than what ROH was doing in Destination America (granted those were their highest numbers) it still isn’t exactly a hugely impressive number. I would believe ROH to Sinclair is probably one of their highest rated products generally and if they can keep within a certain range the money thing isn’t really too much of an issue as long as it isn’t ridiculous.

I agree Ryder seems like a better fit AEW/Impact. If he does end up in ROH, there could be worse FA hires.

Bennett seems like a logical get. Maybe after its over you could turn Taven on Bennett or vice - versa down the road.

Those ROH TV numbers are surprising. I wonder what they do now. Personally i'd be kind of surprised if they did 100K weekly... but i have no clue. Realistically how many people do you think are on Honorclub?? Maybe 2K? Maybe 10K on the high side. I could be way off, but it doesn't seem like 50K subscribers... Seems like YT hits on their videos can get about 2-4K in the first day. That's why i would guess that's around the HC subscribers.

Also i meant 500-750K a year (2x) for Marty/Taven... If Marty is getting over 1M a year, i'm going to fall out of my chair. If he can right the ship, he deserves it. If Tavens above 500K annually... thats surprising all around too. You figure 40 shows a year. That's about 12-13K per match/show . I imagine the average ticket sales per event is around 20-25K (500-600 fans @ average ticket price 40$) I'd say on their bigger shows, they pull in more.... but seems like Taven shouldn't be half their budget of what they draw for a live event. Not to mention when other stars contracts are up (Briscoes/Lethal/etc) they are going to want to be paid the same.

I think ROH’s highest single night viewing figure was something 350-400,000 and by the week it would only go up by say 5000 something like that. Then the lowest I think was somewhere between 150-200,000. I would guess the HonorClub is max 5-10,000 maybe at a push a little more depending on new people coming in because of the library updates, YouTube users etc. ROH has hit anywhere between 1-7000 in its first day but considering soo much of its content isn’t really promoted or centred around being serious content for the actual show it’s hard to determine where ROH would generally sit in viewership for their actual show.

I would guess if ROH had anywhere near the social media awareness of AEW, Impact hell even the NWA, ROH would have a far greater sense of poignancy in the market. Right now I think ROH has a strongish fan base that one isn’t really proud of supporting the company and or isn’t necessarily that in tune with a social media era. Honestly ROH might as well delete it’s twitter page considering how far behind they are. I do wonder if they are actually studying any of the analytics from social media platforms and adjusting as such.

Taven I believe is on around 150,000 I remember Meltzer commenting it was north of a 100,000. I would guess ROH’s net expenditure is close to around 10-15 mil at max for the year, which for a TV show that runs all year and provides multi platform entertainment and viewing figures it’s not too bad.