Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[AnHonorableMention]

Yea....everyone shit on it.

Exactly, because it doesn't fit the ROH style product. The Stadium Stampede fits American DDT/FMW which is what AEW is intended to be.

This is news to me and everyone i know. At no time has AEW been described as "wacky..goofy....off the wall league...think American version of DDT". It was marketed as a real "wrestling" company where in ring performance coupled with coherent storylines would set it apart from the badly booked silliness of WWE. It's now turning into a comedy show that i'm losing internet in.

Very clear to me that you've paid more attention to corporate marketing than the actual product which does in fact have great wrestling. Adding a sprinkle of spice to it, is what separates it from being just another league. Having seen all they've put out there have coherent stories, and the top in ring performances in the states. I find the variety of the show to be refreshing.

[AnHonorableMention]

Well obviously. The last time I watched ROH, I didn’t see the Briscoes “drowning” PCO multiple times and him changing outfits as a Quebecer or Amazing French Canadian. It’s lame AF when I saw Omega do a “move” from a video game and have his opponents fall to the mat like they got hit with something. That’s trash. 99% of adult wrestling fans know it’s “fake”, but it doesn’t have to be ridiculous.

Did you not see FInal Battle with Rush and PCO?

I haven’t. I have only seen G1 Supercard and Summer Supercard from 2019 in full. Seen some matches here and there, but I haven’t watched FB2019 yet. If what you said in the other posts happened, then that sucks too.

So why are you judging things you've not seen?

[AnHonorableMention]

I don't really think it feels like it's reading at all just that he has set out a series of questions that he wants to meet, there is nothing wrong with that. It's the ROH's first venture into this arena I'm sure once they feel comfortable doing it they will explore the format more. Right now it's and enjoyable listen.

I always have a script for the pod formatting and detailing matches, notes, etc. There's absolutely no reason to sound that flat line or over produced.

Depends, when left to their own devices they were bringing in business bears and all other sorts of nonsense.

That particular story is one I would hope Cody tells in his book one day. It had a heck of a payoff if things had gone the right way. Thank the Baltimore team for that one.

[AnHonorableMention]

So hang on this company, that expressed to changing the world of wrestling, of being this all inclusive, white knight wrestling company for the people did so by being DDT/FMW, sorry I can't by that, really they are WWF/WCW early to mid 2000's, with a hint of WCW in the 90's hyped up on steroids. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, but at least own up to it. It's hilarious to see people go wrestling shouldn't be laughed at and you see Tom siguerra was lambasted for tacking the piss out of us as group, then you've got people cheering along at two young stars ridding a horse and running away from one. It just shows us that as a group we are fickle bunch that will just say a lot of shit to look like something else.

You ever see ECW? It wasn't all tables and ladders. Neither was FMW just barbed wire and bombs or DDT being dick flips and death matches. The way TNT marketed the company combined with what the internet created was not the vision. Yeah things have changed from the beginning as far as the overall direction of some characters but this was what it was always going to be. If you watched 2000 crash tv, it's nothing like this.

If this is what wrestling is going to be in the long term, I'll be checking out of it because I shouldn't be laughing more than other emotion that I am investing.

If ROH can upgrade certain elements of their product and keep looking at personalities that they are, while driving the idea of wrestling as their key element I'll prefer them over anything the US is producing at the moment.

If you don't enjoy that style, don't watch it. But to me, they are covering every base of what great wrestling should be, what ROH used to be.

I'm all for great wrestling being the lead but with ROH, if the tree falls in a forest, nobody is around, does it make a noise? We can beat the if ROH can upgrade this or that, idea to death. Obviously the pandemic has things on pause but they have alienated so much of their core fan base they'll never get back.

[NewROHFan2020]

Did you not see FInal Battle with Rush and PCO?

I haven’t. I have only seen G1 Supercard and Summer Supercard from 2019 in full. Seen some matches here and there, but I haven’t watched FB2019 yet. If what you said in the other posts happened, then that sucks too.

So why are you judging things you've not seen?

Well if you’re telling me it’s similar to the AEW shit, and I didn’t like it, then I probably wouldn’t like that. Eventually I will watch it and see how it goes.

[Shanahan]

Exactly, because it doesn't fit the ROH style product. The Stadium Stampede fits American DDT/FMW which is what AEW is intended to be.

This is news to me and everyone i know. At no time has AEW been described as "wacky..goofy....off the wall league...think American version of DDT". It was marketed as a real "wrestling" company where in ring performance coupled with coherent storylines would set it apart from the badly booked silliness of WWE. It's now turning into a comedy show that i'm losing internet in.

Very clear to me that you've paid more attention to corporate marketing than the actual product which does in fact have great wrestling. Adding a sprinkle of spice to it, is what separates it from being just another league. Having seen all they've put out there have coherent stories, and the top in ring performances in the states. I find the variety of the show to be refreshing.

I've watched everything AEW....i still enjoy it but i see it creeping into a zone i didnt want. I can't take your opinions seriously because you go out of your way to excuse anything AEW does while going out of your way to shit on anything ROH ...1 example is your bitching about the podcast. I hadn't listened to it but i did to see why you felt the need to go out of your way to trash it....the podcast is fine. Ive heard better ones and ones that were way worse. I'll tell you this..it was better than unrestricted with Aubrey Edwards chiming in every 10 secs to cut everyone off.

[AnHonorableMention]

I haven’t. I have only seen G1 Supercard and Summer Supercard from 2019 in full. Seen some matches here and there, but I haven’t watched FB2019 yet. If what you said in the other posts happened, then that sucks too.

So why are you judging things you've not seen?

Well if you’re telling me it’s similar to the AEW shit, and I didn’t like it, then I probably wouldn’t like that. Eventually I will watch it and see how it goes.

If you haven't seen something you can't insult or praise it. It's as simple as that.

[AnHonorableMention]

This is news to me and everyone i know. At no time has AEW been described as "wacky..goofy....off the wall league...think American version of DDT". It was marketed as a real "wrestling" company where in ring performance coupled with coherent storylines would set it apart from the badly booked silliness of WWE. It's now turning into a comedy show that i'm losing internet in.

Very clear to me that you've paid more attention to corporate marketing than the actual product which does in fact have great wrestling. Adding a sprinkle of spice to it, is what separates it from being just another league. Having seen all they've put out there have coherent stories, and the top in ring performances in the states. I find the variety of the show to be refreshing.

I've watched everything AEW....i still enjoy it but i see it creeping into a zone i didnt want. I can't take your opinions seriously because you go out of your way to excuse anything AEW does while going out of your way to shit on anything ROH ...1 example is your bitching about the podcast. I hadn't listened to it but i did to see why you felt the need to go out of your way to trash it....the podcast is fine. Ive heard better ones and ones that were way worse. I'll tell you this..it was better than unrestricted with Aubrey Edwards chiming in every 10 secs to cut everyone off.

You didn't want, there's the key. Nobody has to like AEW, but more often then not, fans do and that speaks to the variety of the product. For example, my dad is a 65 year old, retired, lawyer who was a band geek and society type. He HATES wrestling, never supported my love for it, even now thinks it's awful, but if Orange Cassidy is on TV, he's tuning in. He dvr's the show for Cassidy, for MJF, that blows my mind. I definitely don't think AEW is perfect, in fact there's far more issues with the product than I think even the intelligent critics realize. However, it's easily the best television show in wrestling.

If I went out of my way to shit on a company where friends of mine earn a living at without the genuine feeling the product is flat, what kind of friend would I be? Do I think the presentation could use a lot of work, yeah. Does the talent mean less because of the booking, absolutely. Is the roster as loaded as it could have been, no. Kevin Eck is a journalist, a writer, not a podcast host. But as someone who has hosted over 150 different podcast episodes, you have to sound tolerable. Aubrey has been enthusiastic and gotten better at timing. Until you do that job and develop a chemistry the cutting off tends to happen a lot. That's also something you can combine with passion. Hags and I still do cut one another off when we get excited or jumpy. Eck hosts the show by himself, he's flat like the product and the cheesy "NOW HERE'S 10 QUESTIONS WITH KEVIN" cue the generic game show music. It's a different show and ROH is a different product that forgot where they came from.

[Shanahan]

Very clear to me that you've paid more attention to corporate marketing than the actual product which does in fact have great wrestling. Adding a sprinkle of spice to it, is what separates it from being just another league. Having seen all they've put out there have coherent stories, and the top in ring performances in the states. I find the variety of the show to be refreshing.

I've watched everything AEW....i still enjoy it but i see it creeping into a zone i didnt want. I can't take your opinions seriously because you go out of your way to excuse anything AEW does while going out of your way to shit on anything ROH ...1 example is your bitching about the podcast. I hadn't listened to it but i did to see why you felt the need to go out of your way to trash it....the podcast is fine. Ive heard better ones and ones that were way worse. I'll tell you this..it was better than unrestricted with Aubrey Edwards chiming in every 10 secs to cut everyone off.

You didn't want, there's the key. Nobody has to like AEW, but more often then not, fans do and that speaks to the variety of the product. For example, my dad is a 65 year old, retired, lawyer who was a band geek and society type. He HATES wrestling, never supported my love for it, even now thinks it's awful, but if Orange Cassidy is on TV, he's tuning in. He dvr's the show for Cassidy, for MJF, that blows my mind. I definitely don't think AEW is perfect, in fact there's far more issues with the product than I think even the intelligent critics realize. However, it's easily the best television show in wrestling.

If I went out of my way to shit on a company where friends of mine earn a living at without the genuine feeling the product is flat, what kind of friend would I be? Do I think the presentation could use a lot of work, yeah. Does the talent mean less because of the booking, absolutely. Is the roster as loaded as it could have been, no. Kevin Eck is a journalist, a writer, not a podcast host. But as someone who has hosted over 150 different podcast episodes, you have to sound tolerable. Aubrey has been enthusiastic and gotten better at timing. Until you do that job and develop a chemistry the cutting off tends to happen a lot. That's also something you can combine with passion. Hags and I still do cut one another off when we get excited or jumpy. Eck hosts the show by himself, he's flat like the product and the cheesy "NOW HERE'S 10 QUESTIONS WITH KEVIN" cue the generic game show music. It's a different show and ROH is a different product that forgot where they came from.

I said you make excuses for everything AEW and shit on anything ROH and then you proceed to prove my point with this reply. You have a huge blind spot.

[NewROHFan2020]

So why are you judging things you've not seen?

Well if you’re telling me it’s similar to the AEW shit, and I didn’t like it, then I probably wouldn’t like that. Eventually I will watch it and see how it goes.

If you haven't seen something you can't insult or praise it. It's as simple as that.

I know what I like and what I don’t. I’ve never seen the movie Cats, but I know it sucks and I wouldn’t like it. I’ve never seen Delirious and Dan Hausen do a 60 minute broadway, but I know I wouldn’t like it. If ROH advertised El Gigante vs Silver King at their next show, you would insult it, even though you haven’t seen it. It’s called preference.

[BurningHammer]

You ever see ECW? It wasn't all tables and ladders. Neither was FMW just barbed wire and bombs or DDT being dick flips and death matches. The way TNT marketed the company combined with what the internet created was not the vision. Yeah things have changed from the beginning as far as the overall direction of some characters but this was what it was always going to be. If you watched 2000 crash tv, it's nothing like this.

Really, WWE in the early to mid 200's had moved past general attitude era crash TV into a more balanced program when you mix with the pure classic matches they were able to have, to the tables, ladders and chairs matches next to be the bigger programs with the Rock, Triple H etc. It was probably my most favourite era of WWE as it had the perfect blend for me at that time. I've grown out of that though and I am very clear on what I like now.

If you don't enjoy that style, don't watch it. But to me, they are covering every base of what great wrestling should be, what ROH used to be.

ROH never went to the levels that AEW have done where wrestling felt cheesy or just simply plain ridiculous, also they haven't anywhere near the classic wrestling content ROH had with truly believable characters. So much of AEW's success has to do with the fact they are pandering to an audience and trying to grow a wider audience rather than deliver a true vision of the company that everyone wanted in the begging. It just shows that they are doing it for the viewership more than anything else and when you do that, you are always playing catch up and trying to find the right step rather than knowing what's going to happen ahead of them. This will happen even more if they are going to focus on ex WWE talents and use people like Tyson (which saw a drop in the numbers that they most desperately want.

When ROH returns with what seems to be a surprise in terms of it's level of distribution etc and it hits the right note straight away it will gain momentum and it will obviously have a much greater focus in the wrestling community. Even before the pandemic ROH had seen a strong audience return to live events so I don't think you can say no one will hear about it.

I'm all for great wrestling being the lead but with ROH, if the tree falls in a forest, nobody is around, does it make a noise? We can beat the if ROH can upgrade this or that, idea to death. Obviously the pandemic has things on pause but they have alienated so much of their core fan base they'll never get back.

Also I don't think you can say they will never come back and even if they don't, that doesn't mean they can't find the right audience and size that they are searching for. If you are going to believe talent they are very excited about the future and where ROH can go, there are plans in place and things are happening that we obviously aren't fully aware of. Things like ROH working with Nowinski to a create a concussion protocol, when that makes mainstream news it will create a solid foundation to build trust that things have and are changing and people can feel proud of the company they support.

[Montana]

This is getting slightly ridiculous with a bunch of (probably) old men bickering on what they prefer from a wrestling company.

Prejudice and bias are very real, and helps us forms opinions. HonorableMention feels burned by ROH, because they are not delivering a product comparable to the "golden era" of ROH. To some or even most of the old ROH fans, will find AEW as a breathe of fresh air. Much like NXT. Similar but modified version of classic ROH. Myself, i don't compare ROH today vs. ROH 2006....Same as i don't compare WWE 2020 to 1995 or 88... or even 2005. Companies evolve. HonorableMention wants to see the best for ROH. That's why he still follows the product today. That being said, i can still find quite a bit to enjoy on the current product. Honestly, i've watched every ROH live event show in 2019... and never did I feel like it was a waste of time, or not worth the annual price for HonorClub. It's a pretty consistent product year by year and the company showcases some of the best wrestlers in the prime. There's plenty people CAN complain about... same with AEW (OC standing on a ladder)

I think we can all agree, we all hope ROH continues to do good business, rise again, and find their niche in between WWE/AEW/ Impact. We've discussed a handful of major flaws in 2019, and it seems like the company has started to address some/most of these... so HOPEFULLY that a good sign. One of the biggest issues ROH faces is it's paywall for HonorClub and a TV product that doesn't feel as relevant. They've gotta sort that out moving forward , even though, i actually love the fact there's 2-4 live events each month that are live streamed....works for me with HonorClub, but not the masses.

AEW has a great TV show... because they need to and they have sunk a HUGE investment into the company. They have a vision, and for the most part put together a quality TV and PPV product that the business as based on. As much as there are things i don't like about AEW, the stars really did align for them. Specifically ... Tony Khan, money and it seems an excellent business mind for wrestling. Cody Rhodes, Classic wrestling booking knowledge, Chris Jericho, incredible entertaining veteran who helps other wrestlers and the product. Young Bucks, incredible business minds, marketing and social media.... I could go on, but you get the point.

I feel like right now, AEW is the shiny new toy. I think they are good for the next 2-3 years or so. AEW being successful now has been easy. I think once EXPECTATIONS set in..... then people get much more critical. WWE / ROH / Impact all have expectations because they've been around long enough. Is AEW going to go more down the comedy route, the old school wrestling... vs. in ring product?? Seems like a decent balance so far. AEW has been making the right moves....as much i can bitch people like Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy, the fact they try and push everyone, i think people are giving them passes, BC they are putting in a lot of effort to put on a good product.

With ROH having a lot of management flaws in 2019... it's hard to say they put in the same effort. Business suffered. Not to mention AEW has much more invested in the company. It feels like ROH has a staff of like 20 people, where as AEW would be hundred/hundreds.

[AnHonorableMention]

I've watched everything AEW....i still enjoy it but i see it creeping into a zone i didnt want. I can't take your opinions seriously because you go out of your way to excuse anything AEW does while going out of your way to shit on anything ROH ...1 example is your bitching about the podcast. I hadn't listened to it but i did to see why you felt the need to go out of your way to trash it....the podcast is fine. Ive heard better ones and ones that were way worse. I'll tell you this..it was better than unrestricted with Aubrey Edwards chiming in every 10 secs to cut everyone off.

You didn't want, there's the key. Nobody has to like AEW, but more often then not, fans do and that speaks to the variety of the product. For example, my dad is a 65 year old, retired, lawyer who was a band geek and society type. He HATES wrestling, never supported my love for it, even now thinks it's awful, but if Orange Cassidy is on TV, he's tuning in. He dvr's the show for Cassidy, for MJF, that blows my mind. I definitely don't think AEW is perfect, in fact there's far more issues with the product than I think even the intelligent critics realize. However, it's easily the best television show in wrestling.

If I went out of my way to shit on a company where friends of mine earn a living at without the genuine feeling the product is flat, what kind of friend would I be? Do I think the presentation could use a lot of work, yeah. Does the talent mean less because of the booking, absolutely. Is the roster as loaded as it could have been, no. Kevin Eck is a journalist, a writer, not a podcast host. But as someone who has hosted over 150 different podcast episodes, you have to sound tolerable. Aubrey has been enthusiastic and gotten better at timing. Until you do that job and develop a chemistry the cutting off tends to happen a lot. That's also something you can combine with passion. Hags and I still do cut one another off when we get excited or jumpy. Eck hosts the show by himself, he's flat like the product and the cheesy "NOW HERE'S 10 QUESTIONS WITH KEVIN" cue the generic game show music. It's a different show and ROH is a different product that forgot where they came from.

I said you make excuses for everything AEW and shit on anything ROH and then you proceed to prove my point with this reply. You have a huge blind spot.

How does this reply prove any point besides my own Mr. Expert?

[AnHonorableMention]

I've watched everything AEW....i still enjoy it but i see it creeping into a zone i didnt want. I can't take your opinions seriously because you go out of your way to excuse anything AEW does while going out of your way to shit on anything ROH ...1 example is your bitching about the podcast. I hadn't listened to it but i did to see why you felt the need to go out of your way to trash it....the podcast is fine. Ive heard better ones and ones that were way worse. I'll tell you this..it was better than unrestricted with Aubrey Edwards chiming in every 10 secs to cut everyone off.

You didn't want, there's the key. Nobody has to like AEW, but more often then not, fans do and that speaks to the variety of the product. For example, my dad is a 65 year old, retired, lawyer who was a band geek and society type. He HATES wrestling, never supported my love for it, even now thinks it's awful, but if Orange Cassidy is on TV, he's tuning in. He dvr's the show for Cassidy, for MJF, that blows my mind. I definitely don't think AEW is perfect, in fact there's far more issues with the product than I think even the intelligent critics realize. However, it's easily the best television show in wrestling.

If I went out of my way to shit on a company where friends of mine earn a living at without the genuine feeling the product is flat, what kind of friend would I be? Do I think the presentation could use a lot of work, yeah. Does the talent mean less because of the booking, absolutely. Is the roster as loaded as it could have been, no. Kevin Eck is a journalist, a writer, not a podcast host. But as someone who has hosted over 150 different podcast episodes, you have to sound tolerable. Aubrey has been enthusiastic and gotten better at timing. Until you do that job and develop a chemistry the cutting off tends to happen a lot. That's also something you can combine with passion. Hags and I still do cut one another off when we get excited or jumpy. Eck hosts the show by himself, he's flat like the product and the cheesy "NOW HERE'S 10 QUESTIONS WITH KEVIN" cue the generic game show music. It's a different show and ROH is a different product that forgot where they came from.

I said you make excuses for everything AEW and shit on anything ROH and then you proceed to prove my point with this reply. You have a huge blind spot.

How does my reply do anything other than prove my point Mr. Expert?

[AnHonorableMention]

Well if you’re telling me it’s similar to the AEW shit, and I didn’t like it, then I probably wouldn’t like that. Eventually I will watch it and see how it goes.

If you haven't seen something you can't insult or praise it. It's as simple as that.

I know what I like and what I don’t. I’ve never seen the movie Cats, but I know it sucks and I wouldn’t like it. I’ve never seen Delirious and Dan Hausen do a 60 minute broadway, but I know I wouldn’t like it. If ROH advertised El Gigante vs Silver King at their next show, you would insult it, even though you haven’t seen it. It’s called preference.

I would love to watch El Gigante wrestle again! Silver KIng too!

[AnHonorableMention]

Really, WWE in the early to mid 200's had moved past general attitude era crash TV into a more balanced program when you mix with the pure classic matches they were able to have, to the tables, ladders and chairs matches next to be the bigger programs with the Rock, Triple H etc. It was probably my most favourite era of WWE as it had the perfect blend for me at that time. I've grown out of that though and I am very clear on what I like now.

I didn't watch WWE from 2003-2010, I don't feel like I missed much because I had the indies which was my style. Different styles work best to keep a product fresh especially when the styles come together to create. I feel like ROH doesn't do that anymore because there is no personality. AEW hits home and feels like what ROH would on the grander scale.

ROH never went to the levels that AEW have done where wrestling felt cheesy or just simply plain ridiculous, also they haven't anywhere near the classic wrestling content ROH had with truly believable characters. So much of AEW's success has to do with the fact they are pandering to an audience and trying to grow a wider audience rather than deliver a true vision of the company that everyone wanted in the begging. It just shows that they are doing it for the viewership more than anything else and when you do that, you are always playing catch up and trying to find the right step rather than knowing what's going to happen ahead of them. This will happen even more if they are going to focus on ex WWE talents and use people like Tyson (which saw a drop in the numbers that they most desperately want.

Let's see, ROH had a rave in the ring, has a Delirious who only goes crazy when the bell rings, a guy called Cheeseburger, whatever PCO is, Kikutaro was featured on the biggest show of the time doing a Cactus Jack impersonation, need I continue? They have a guy with a Freddie Mercury gimmick in 2020. Comedy is an element that belongs and has been in wrestling for ages. I would argue Page/Omega vs. The Bucks from Revolution is better than any tag ROH has ever done. Yeah, no Joe/Kobashi but you can't duplicate that. Cody and Dustin is the best match of the last ten years considering the match itself, the story, the emotion and execution. I can't tell you the last match ROH had that moved me to tears. The ratings this past week were higher than any week in the pandemic, NXT as well. The PPV buys for DON were up from last year as well, through early indications by 18% in a pandemic. Aside from Jericho & Cody, everyone else in a featured place was an indy darling before they went to WWE so truly they had value to the AEW audience before WWE and now more after it. Using the older talents like Jake, Taz, Arn, etc, adds credibility to the product and the lapsed fan. ROH would be well served to try that too.

When ROH returns with what seems to be a surprise in terms of it's level of distribution etc and it hits the right note straight away it will gain momentum and it will obviously have a much greater focus in the wrestling community. Even before the pandemic ROH had seen a strong audience return to live events so I don't think you can say no one will hear about it.

We've been hearing about a TV deal and distribution for a long time, MLW has lapped them in getting ink to paper for that type of stuff. I hope Marty gets it going, but I fear it's too late to come back to pre-Elite leaving numbers. Having tv in 100 markets give or take is great but you gotta put butts in seats.

Also I don't think you can say they will never come back and even if they don't, that doesn't mean they can't find the right audience and size that they are searching for. If you are going to believe talent they are very excited about the future and where ROH can go, there are plans in place and things are happening that we obviously aren't fully aware of. Things like ROH working with Nowinski to a create a concussion protocol, when that makes mainstream news it will create a solid foundation to build trust that things have and are changing and people can feel proud of the company they support.

I look at which talents are saying they're excited and how they are saying it. The Silas Young's and Beer City Bruisers of the world are lucky to have jobs that pay this much. No offense to them, but they aren't management and they aren't featured players. Marty is obviously the most excited and who could blame him, but can he execute his vision? Delirious had a vision, he was awful at following through on it. AEW has had Chris had almost every PPV and several TVs. ROH has no protocol and even though the Kelly/Joey situation turned out to be far more expansive than publicly known they were both accurate in the commentary on a lack of medical personnel. Meanwhile AEW has a ringside physician and a back up, full time. SBG has deep pockets, they need to make this work and make it work fast because once shareholders realize how much money is being lost on wrestling, it will be zapped, especially in a company like Sinclair.

[NewROHFan2020]

You know what I mean. You can dislike something without seeing/eating/doing it.

[AnHonorableMention]

This is getting slightly ridiculous with a bunch of (probably) old men bickering on what they prefer from a wrestling company.

No man, this is what a discussion for is about. Nobody is saying anyone is a bad person for their opinion! For the record, I'm 34 and my body feels 75.

Prejudice and bias are very real, and helps us forms opinions. HonorableMention feels burned by ROH, because they are not delivering a product comparable to the "golden era" of ROH. To some or even most of the old ROH fans, will find AEW as a breathe of fresh air. Much like NXT. Similar but modified version of classic ROH. Myself, i don't compare ROH today vs. ROH 2006....Same as i don't compare WWE 2020 to 1995 or 88... or even 2005. Companies evolve. HonorableMention wants to see the best for ROH. That's why he still follows the product today. That being said, i can still find quite a bit to enjoy on the current product. Honestly, i've watched every ROH live event show in 2019... and never did I feel like it was a waste of time, or not worth the annual price for HonorClub. It's a pretty consistent product year by year and the company showcases some of the best wrestlers in the prime. There's plenty people CAN complain about... same with AEW (OC standing on a ladder)

I don't feel burned by ROH, I am disappointed in them for not honoring their traditions and legacies. SBG said it, when they bought the company "We'll create our own history." Then they realized how valuable the history was and how attached people were to it, and still didn't care. You can't be the custodian of a legacy and disregard the legacy.

I think we can all agree, we all hope ROH continues to do good business, rise again, and find their niche in between WWE/AEW/ Impact. We've discussed a handful of major flaws in 2019, and it seems like the company has started to address some/most of these... so HOPEFULLY that a good sign. One of the biggest issues ROH faces is it's paywall for HonorClub and a TV product that doesn't feel as relevant. They've gotta sort that out moving forward , even though, i actually love the fact there's 2-4 live events each month that are live streamed....works for me with HonorClub, but not the masses.

$9.99 is a great value for highspots, IWTV, WWE network, and could be for Honor Club if they had the entire library available. They went in unprepared, and still are behind the times.

AEW has a great TV showsome weeks... because they need to and they have sunk a HUGE investment into the company. They have a vision, and for the most part put together a quality TV and PPV product that the business as based on. As much as there are things i don't like about AEW, the stars really did align for them. Specifically ... Tony Khan, money and it seems an excellent business mind for wrestling. Cody Rhodes, Classic wrestling booking knowledge, Chris Jericho, incredible entertaining veteran who helps other wrestlers and the product. Young Bucks, incredible business minds, marketing and social media.... I could go on, but you get the point.

I wonder how people would be viewing the TNT show if things went differently with Tony and ROH.

I feel like right now, AEW is the shiny new toy. I think they are good for the next 2-3 years or so. AEW being successful now has been easy. I think once EXPECTATIONS set in..... then people get much more critical. WWE / ROH / Impact all have expectations because they've been around long enough. Is AEW going to go more down the comedy route, the old school wrestling... vs. in ring product?? Seems like a decent balance so far. AEW has been making the right moves....as much i can bitch people like Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy, the fact they try and push everyone, i think people are giving them passes, BC they are putting in a lot of effort to put on a good product.

You mention the word effort, I like that. The effort is always there with AEW. The Free Enterprise show felt like everyone half assed it, from the quiet crowd to the talent. The show was free, great on ROH to showcase their product but how did that show feel any different from anyone prior to that? Nothing feels important here anymore and the history of this company, almost every show felt historical you had to be there vibe.

With ROH having a lot of management flaws in 2019... it's hard to say they put in the same effort. Business suffered. Not to mention AEW has much more invested in the company. It feels like ROH has a staff of like 20 people, where as AEW would be hundred/hundreds.

20? Cut that in half. They don't have the infrastructure as I've said and use third party companies for crew in many roles. Mark Brown, who most people don't know works his ass off. He should be publicly credited.

[BurningHammer]

I didn't watch WWE from 2003-2010, I don't feel like I missed much because I had the indies which was my style. Different styles work best to keep a product fresh especially when the styles come together to create. I feel like ROH doesn't do that anymore because there is no personality. AEW hits home and feels like what ROH would on the grander scale.

I just can't feel that at all, everything about AEW does nothing for me and feels "I'll say it because it's right" to putting many in wrong gimmicks or situations.

Let's see, ROH had a rave in the ring, has a Delirious who only goes crazy when the bell rings, a guy called Cheeseburger, whatever PCO is, Kikutaro was featured on the biggest show of the time doing a Cactus Jack impersonation, need I continue? They have a guy with a Freddie Mercury gimmick in 2020. Comedy is an element that belongs and has been in wrestling for ages. I would argue Page/Omega vs. The Bucks from Revolution is better than any tag ROH has ever done. Yeah, no Joe/Kobashi but you can't duplicate that. Cody and Dustin is the best match of the last ten years considering the match itself, the story, the emotion and execution. I can't tell you the last match ROH had that moved me to tears. The ratings this past week were higher than any week in the pandemic, NXT as well. The PPV buys for DON were up from last year as well, through early indications by 18% in a pandemic. Aside from Jericho & Cody, everyone else in a featured place was an indy darling before they went to WWE so truly they had value to the AEW audience before WWE and now more after it. Using the older talents like Jake, Taz, Arn, etc, adds credibility to the product and the lapsed fan. ROH would be well served to try that too.

Comedy should not be in your main event, especially what is meant to be the widest ranging and biggest fued of your TV product especially when it's so heavily ingrained in the match, if ROH did half the shit that AEW has done it would have been slaughtered and rightfully so because it has. That match is likely better because of your own investment, (not saying it wasn't good/great) but you have said many times your issues with ROH so are they ever going to retrieve you emotionally if your are shut off to the people in charge and product in general how can you ever be invested and enjoying it in the same way, you can't. ROH has offered to me enough matches that have got me and more so than AEW and that's probably because I am in a similar position to you with AEW I don't believe their rhetoric, I don't believe it comes from an honest place in anyway and it all feels for one reason and one reason only the ratings, they know what drags people along these days and people are so caught up in their act they can't see the wood for the trees with it.

We've been hearing about a TV deal and distribution for a long time, MLW has lapped them in getting ink to paper for that type of stuff. I hope Marty gets it going, but I fear it's too late to come back to pre-Elite leaving numbers. Having tv in 100 markets give or take is great but you gotta put butts in seats.

Looking at MLW's general viewership it hasn't in anyway lapped ROH, look at their numbers all around and ROH is higher in every aspect. Do they have a far more accessable TV program, yes, if and when ROH gets MLW will likely be far behind. With ROH I know what I'm getting I know they are trying to be better, I know they are giving it their best shot of deceiving me and as long as I have that honesty, i'll be ok with the product always.

I look at which talents are saying they're excited and how they are saying it. The Silas Young's and Beer City Bruisers of the world are lucky to have jobs that pay this much. No offense to them, but they aren't management and they aren't featured players. Marty is obviously the most excited and who could blame him, but can he execute his vision? Delirious had a vision, he was awful at following through on it. AEW has had Chris had almost every PPV and several TVs. ROH has no protocol and even though the Kelly/Joey situation turned out to be far more expansive than publicly known they were both accurate in the commentary on a lack of medical personnel. Meanwhile AEW has a ringside physician and a back up, full time. SBG has deep pockets, they need to make this work and make it work fast because once shareholders realize how much money is being lost on wrestling, it will be zapped, especially in a company like Sinclair.

I have seen, Hendry, Castle, Taven, Haskins, PCO, Brody, Flip, Lethal, PJ, Quinn, Martina, RUSH, Dragon Lee all express a large desire to get back to ROH and deliver an exciting healthy product. Everyone is starting to feel far more connected as a whole to the product and if the talent meetings that happen each week are true and the avenues for expressing, concerns, ideas etc are far more open than ever before then the togetherness is likely real and that's hugely important. The thing is SBG have deep pockets but have they ever truly committed to the promotion, it only seems like now that things are truly changing and money is starting to pushed into all avenues of the company.

[NewROHFan2020]

The NWA has more Twitter followers than MLW and their actual wrestling episodes get more viewers on YouTube than MLW’s as well. Being on a niche cable network isn’t as big as you think. Nobody watches BeIn sports unless Real Madrid and Barcelona are playing. You need to have the tippy top programming package to even get BeIn sports. Not to mention, cord cutting is accelerating. What good does it do to have ROH on some random network?

ROH is already on free tv. I believe it’s also on many Fox Sports Networks on cable. Unless it’s on a USA or TNT type network, the eyeballs on your product aren’t there. Even then, it’s mostly your die hards that have been watching the whole time.

I’ll take Stadium/Charge/FSNs over BeIn Sports any day of the week.