Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[Montana]

This could change.... but looks like ROH will be putting on the full show of Final Battle 2019 for free on YouTube. Looks like it’s a live premier New Year’s Day.

One of the worst shows of the year given away for free. SMH.

I fail to see how this is one of the worst shows of the year. Like it or not... the show gives a pretty good look at ROH for what it is right now. To the new fans, who may not like everything... there might be something they like. The show was a decent mix of technical, high flying, lots of brawling, and a bit of strong style. Sure, the main event was a bit "out there" at the end, but you had like 3 other hours of wrestling, if you didn't like that.

Also, the fact of the matter is that ROH is never getting back to the mid-2000's level ROH. Different goals, different wrestling landscape.



Briscoes vs. Lifeblood vs. Cobb/ Maff is an awesome match, that i never thought i wanted.

[AnHonorableMention]

This could change.... but looks like ROH will be putting on the full show of Final Battle 2019 for free on YouTube. Looks like it’s a live premier New Year’s Day.

One of the worst shows of the year given away for free. SMH.

Do not compare me to that racist old clown. Back to the drawing board.

[AnHonorableMention]

This could change.... but looks like ROH will be putting on the full show of Final Battle 2019 for free on YouTube. Looks like it’s a live premier New Year’s Day.

One of the worst shows of the year given away for free. SMH.

I fail to see how this is one of the worst shows of the year. Like it or not... the show gives a pretty good look at ROH for what it is right now. To the new fans, who may not like everything... there might be something they like. The show was a decent mix of technical, high flying, lots of brawling, and a bit of strong style. Sure, the main event was a bit "out there" at the end, but you had like 3 other hours of wrestling, if you didn't like that.

Also, the fact of the matter is that ROH is never getting back to the mid-2000's level ROH. Different goals, different wrestling landscape.



Briscoes vs. Lifeblood vs. Cobb/ Maff is an awesome match, that i never thought i wanted.

The show was incredibly disappointing and featured the worst main event since the 1AS. Put a best of together and upload that. A little effort. You’re also disrespectful to customers who paid for this show. In addition outside of the tag titles, Rhett/Kenny and the VE tag the show has nothing I’d consider interesting. Cobb/Maff was just big dudes hitting hard. No reason or feud. Now they’re a tag team? Why? Not a good representation of the product. Want that? Put G1 Supercard ROH matches on as a special.

[BurningHammer]

There is nothing that should ever be shown from the G1 Supercard again, it will live long in the memory as the most embarressed I have felt as a fan at a live event. It's even more gaulling when ROH promotes it as some incredible momentus event (which it should of been) and end up being what caused much of this downfall.

Final Battle at least has the begining of many new feuds (jugding by the matches announced for Jan), story lines that can be continued and far better matches related to ROH than Supercard G1.

[indyfan]

both shows had some great matches. its not all about the main events and the creative

[alexsmellzzz]

I guess it'll get views from little kids or whoever watches free shows on youtube, so that's good. I think from an overall quality standpoint, 2019 was not great. There was years like 2015, 16, 17 where the PPVs were so great. With a Takeover-like quality to them, they had a great pace and featured literally some of the best wrestling of the time. In 2019, ROH was playing catch up. The shows had *some* good wrestling, but there's good wrestling everywhere nowadays. If the goal is to gain new fans, I don't think 2019 shows will accomplish that (the old ones would have)... BUT if the goal is just to catch people up, I guess the free show on youtube is a good way of doing that.

That being said, I am super excited about those two new shows. They both look great. Honestly might be better looking cards than anything they did in all of 2019. We'll have to see what happens. They're going out on a limb with some new talent, and I hope it pays off.

[famicommander]

Not strictly ROH related but it's dead as hell here right now, so:


Indie wrasslin' on the field after the game at this weekend's Colorado Mammoth NLL game. The Mammoth generally draw between 12,000-16,000 fans so definitely a big opportunity for some of these indie dudes. The card:
Rocky Mountain Pro Championship – Dustin Uhrich vs. Marlion Bishop

Tag Team Championship – JK Pop vs. Tag Dudes

Charged Championship – C.J. Pricefield vs. Lypto vs. Atiba

Special Guest Match – Severino Corrente vs. Gregory Iron

Rumble at the Loud House – Several of Rocky Mountain Pro Wrestling’s top performers will duke it out for the chance to take home the “Rumble at the Loud House” championship title and belt.

Believe it or not, this will be the first wrestling show I've attended since I quit watching WWF regularly. I saw a house show at the Denver Coliseum sometime in 2001, and that was it. The indie scene here has always been awful and ROH/TNA/MLW/NJPW have run a combined zero shows here.

[Montana]

As for the G1 Supercard .... that show had like 5x matches 4 stars are better.... so it's really not as bad as people make it out to be. (Or they just hate the booking) I assume the latter.

Final Battle had 3x 4 stars are better matches... so again, just going by match quality, they aren't bad shows. They aren't filled with flips like an AEW show, but it clearly looks like ROH is going more in that direction for 2020.

As for 2019 as a whole... everyone expected a down year, and we got a down year. I think the worst part has been the poor tickets sales, but how much of this did ROH do to itself. I was at 2 live shows this year, and saw 2 matches that i'd put in my top ten live ROH matches, and i've been to about 30 shows. (Haskins/Taven & Jay Briscoe vs Bandido) My opinion, 2019 wasn't that far off in terms of match quality from 2015-2018 range. The biggest thing is just the lack of crowds/noise. Perfect example is a guy like Mark Haskins who is awesome... but he even barely gets a reaction in some cities, because ROH didn't put him over as a star enough yet. I think ROH being behind a paywall hurts... especially with so much quality "free" wrestling out there which is basically a who's who of ROH's past.

I get the feeling that ROH is going to double down, on their philosophy for 2020. The best independent talent, with great wrestling, and simple storylines/booking. I don't foresee a manager shift in management/booking at this point, but hopefully they market better and get the attendance back up.

[AnHonorableMention]

I get the feeling that ROH is going to double down, on their philosophy for 2020. The best independent talent, with great wrestling, and simple storylines/booking. I don't foresee a manager shift in management/booking at this point, but hopefully they market better and get the attendance back up.

Here's the thing, management and creative won't change and doubling down won't help. They will never have houses bigger than 500-600 if they continue as is. Much like my beloved Cleveland Browns, when the common denominator is ownership/management and the pieces on the chess board change, the problem is not the chess pieces.

[Montana]

I disagree about the attendance. I think ROH will average about 500-600 across the year continuing as-is. I'm sure we'll get a few shows with maybe 300-400 ppl, but then we'll get some 800-1000 for some shows as well to balance out. I certainly don't think averaging 500 ppl is anything to brag about, but if they never have more than 500 ppl ever at a show in 2020, i'll stop watching wrestling all together.

ROH's managment and philosophy is a bit dated, considering the landscape has changed and really floundered to make changes on the fly. Stuff like ticket prices, and TV show format, and how to get their product out to customers. completely agree about that. I'm hoping that ROH can make a few to many quality of life changes to improve fan experience.

[Chrisvegas27]

Marty says he wants to go after the title again even if pco has it

[Wilson]

Believe it or not, this will be the first wrestling show I've attended since I quit watching WWF regularly. I saw a house show at the Denver Coliseum sometime in 2001, and that was it. The indie scene here has always been awful and ROH/TNA/MLW/NJPW have run a combined zero shows here.

Wow, geez, congrats. That is some long spell to finally break. Hope that show gives other January 4th events some competition.

On YouTube uploads, putting out the latest major thing seems to be the thing that catches the algorithm best. (For instance Rush vs. Taven was uploaded about three weeks after it took place and it has well over 200,000 views, which is well past the average for ROH.) I was really not high on the show, but hey it's an honest representation of what shows and crowds are today and viewers can suss out for themselves if ROH is for them.

And on the match cards that have been laid out for January, they look good--kind of superindie to boot. It's kind of funny to put that associate that kind of card with an ROH event, but I guess that speaks to both what ROH is trying deliver with their live shows and for the lackluster indie scene in the States.

[monster mafia]

Damn..

https://twitter.com/BJ_Whitmer/status/1 ... 32514?s=19

[BurningHammer]

Maff I realise that this news is pretty big but I think it might best to delete it, or not make it a forum issue. Mostly everything that has been disucssed with Joey, BJ and Kelly has been pretty ROH related and us as fans were affecte due to it being a company issue.

This is obviously a very personal matter and one we shouldn't really comment on, to me anyway, if Wilson others feel it's ok then no worries.

[GardenStateSaint]

Still nothing on the books for the anniversary show?

[Wilson]

Damn..

https://twitter.com/BJ_Whitmer/status/1 ... 32514?s=19

Maff I realise that this news is pretty big but I think it might best to delete it, or not make it a forum issue. Mostly everything that has been disucssed with Joey, BJ and Kelly has been pretty ROH related and us as fans were affecte due to it being a company issue.

This is obviously a very personal matter and one we shouldn't really comment on, to me anyway, if Wilson others feel it's ok then no worries.

BJ's statement was public. I think it's OK to provide the link here. It's clearly a very vulnerable situation, so I will probably delete any comments that feel like speculation about the matter.

[Chrisvegas27]

It's not roh related but could affect roh in the end because there are rumors that mlw struck a deal with Viacom to air fusion on paramount and that Bauer sold some of the company to Viacom

[Shanahan]

It's not roh related but could affect roh in the end because there are rumors that mlw struck a deal with Viacom to air fusion on paramount and that Bauer sold some of the company to Viacom

If true...good for them. I really enjoy MLW.

[monster mafia]

- NJPW’s removal from AXS TV was reportedly the result of the company turning down a working relationship with Impact Wrestling. As reported last week, AXS TV confirmed that New Japan would not be airing on the network in 2020 after NJPW made the announcement on their own. According to Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Observer Radio, this was the result of New Japan refusing a deal that would have resulted in them working with Impact.

- AEW and NJPW have not worked together since All Elite Wrestling opened their doors. The Elite actually spoke out about leaving NJPW and the separation was rather rough.

During Wrestling Observer Radio, Dave Meltzer brought up the two companies’ relationship. Apparently, things are changing after Chris Jericho’s AEW World Title has inserted into NJPW’s storyline.

“There is absolutely a change. Just the fact that New Japan acknowledged on their website that Chris Jericho is the AEW Champion and if Tanahashi wins he gets a championship match. As we all know when I was in Dallas [for NJPW] any mention of Kenny Omega and AEW were forbidden.”

Meltzer said the best thing for both AEW and NJPW is to work together. He said that things changed because the NJPW and ROH relationship isn’t what it used to be. The idea is that they’re running so many shows in the USA that they can’t send talent to ROH.

He said the NJPW office “knew about AEW before anyone,” but they were loyal to ROH. Since Ring Of Honor didn’t want to work with AEW that nixed their working relationship

[kovs27]

Does New Japan really need an American partner at this point? You could say they are the third biggest promotion in the United States already. It sounds like they are going to be having several US tours with their own talent in 2020. Other than WWE, what company has people watching it that doesn't already know and probably follow NJPW.