Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[Chrisvegas27]

He was on his Twitter they didn't show up at the at the tapings unless it's in a backstage segment or their at tomorrow show

[WHG]

To be fair, Brad Ward is a kid from Calgary that plays video games and likes wrestling. He's not even a wanna be reporter/ scoopster like so many on Twitter seem to be. He randomly tweeted that they'd signed deals with "huge downsides" (which isn't really applicable language in ROH deals, btw) without sourcing or context.

[Wilson]

Martinez just took the photo op with Triple H--time to take this bad boy out of the vault.

Watching ROH on SBG. I think this EVIL angle is a sort of fanfiction/creepypasta exquisite corpse. This has to be the worst (best) thing ROH has ever done.

Below is a transcript of Kelly, Sullivan, and Corino commentating over Martinez vs. Cheeseburger:

Kevin Sullivan: Hello, Mr. Kelly.

Kevin Kelly: Mr. Sullivan.

KS: And hello, Booza Loocan.

Steve Corino: Father, I just need to know why the haze after 33 years did not come from the ocean, but he came from the darkness and you gave him to BJ Whitmer. I just need to know why. I get it, I told you before. When you impaled me with the golden spike I understood. But I don't know why. Why?

KS: You never understood. You're always a recalcitrant child (sic). You always wanted your own way. You always wanted to circumvent evil. Know where you come from! You--keep your mouth shut! I should've told you that thirty years ago. Keep your mouth shut! Do you understand? I had to pull out your fingernails. You were a relcalciant (sic) child and you still are. You're still jealous. And accept who you are, Loocan.

SC: I did everything that you and Uncle Mark taught me! I stepped on the dream . . .

KS: Everybody else's problems. . . .

SC: But I changed. I have a family. You made me leave my wife and child!

KK: Shotei!

SC: And you still--you still gave him! It's always him--always him! I thought I had him eliminated! Why him?

KS: Why him? This is what he brought me: the reincarnation of the purple haze himself. LOOK AT THE SIZE!

KK: Oh!

KS: LOOK AT THE SIZE! Oh my. Oh, oh, oh. And don't bring up that incident with him in Australia.

KK: Three! Three, it is over.

SC: These people need to know--I need to know why.

KS: You know why. You know why.

SC: I am who I am!

KS: You aren't who you are: accept who you are.

SC: I am Steve Corino.

KS: You are not Steve Corinu (sic). You are Moocan, my son. Look at this, this is destruction.

KK: Boozer Moocan?

SC: No. . . .

KK: What is . . . Who is . . . What is . . .

KS: That is his name, Boocah Loocan.

KK: Hey, wait a minute. What is he talking about? Steve. Look at this! Look at the destruction!

KS: Why don't you do something? Why don't you do something, Loocan?

KK: Wait a minute!

KS: Show me! Show me what you have.

KK: Oh no! Punishment Martinez destroyed Cheeseburger and he does the same to his friend Will Ferrara.

KS: Show me what you have.

Will this ever actually end?

[AlexROH]

Tama Tonga shared this article on Twitter, LOL.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/2019/4/16 ... ray-allure

It's a f'n shitty article full of hate man. Just pure hate. This kinds of "articles" really suck,

[monster mafia]

fuck the haters man...thats disgusting.

[Montana]

It amazes me how some fans think... You got the wwe haters, which there's plenty, then the super AEW fans that the promotion can do no wrong, despite not evening having done a show yet,, then you got the AEW retractors too.

This year especially it seems like ROH is getting a lot of heat, and mostly seems to be the casual/fair weather fans the Elite brought in. (Similar to Sami Zayn's new gimmick)

As far as his article goes, 1 of the 4 reasons was a pre-show match. That would be like me saying WM sucked bc of Andre the giant battle royal. The other 3 reasons, add up to around 30 minutes on like a 5.5 hour show. ROH gave NJPW the top slots, with the most time. Not to mention the mixed matches with Jeff Cobb, Briscoes, VC, and Bandido matches were all very good matches.

[Chrisvegas27]

It's probably only going to get worse

[famicommander]

It amazes me how some fans think... You got the wwe haters, which there's plenty, then the super AEW fans that the promotion can do no wrong, despite not evening having done a show yet,, then you got the AEW retractors too.

This year especially it seems like ROH is getting a lot of heat, and mostly seems to be the casual/fair weather fans the Elite brought in. (Similar to Sami Zayn's new gimmick)

As far as his article goes, 1 of the 4 reasons was a pre-show match. That would be like me saying WM sucked bc of Andre the giant battle royal. The other 3 reasons, add up to around 30 minutes on like a 5.5 hour show. ROH gave NJPW the top slots, with the most time. Not to mention the mixed matches with Jeff Cobb, Briscoes, VC, and Bandido matches were all very good matches.

Nobody wants to give ROH their due for their part in the multi-company matches on the card.

Or for, you know, putting the show together in the first place. NJPW didn't rent the venue. CMLL didn't rent the venue. ROH did.

[AlexROH]

The best review of the show I've read/listen so far is Lanza's at the last VOW Flagship podcast, tbh.

I still don't know why peopel hate to much on ROH part of the show, I mean, THEY GOT THE F'N UNDERCARD, what did you expect? 60 minute classics? ROH were on the Tag Title, Opener and Jr Title, but nobody mention that. The Ladder Match was great... But tons of people says it was horrible. Taven getting the win, as well as Kenny and Flip teaming with LB against Bully all made sense booking wise, but yeah, since people talking about it don't follow the product they just shit about everything they don't like.

It's really depressing to read Twitter and all these reviews. During Mania Weekend, when I was just watching wrestling live and talking with my friends without looking to the internet everything was better. It looks like on the internet you cannot have a normal opinion, you gotta be edgy and shit about everything you see.

[SweetDaddy]

The ROH roster has went to shit thus people shitting on the product.

Is it ROHs fault that they havent built more stars or ROHs fault they arent bringing in more talent?

Regardless its ROHs fault.

Ive already admitted if Lethal and The Briscoes left I would too.

[SweetDaddy]

And if they lose NJPW their days are numbered unless they start bringing in better talent.

[Chrisvegas27]

I think their setting up so they don't worry about losing njpw

[AnHonorableMention]

I find it ironic that now people are super mad ROH is being critiqued when the product sucked since Sinclair bought it. They've kept Delirious and now he's insulated to the point where Bubba Ray Dudley is booking. The whole thing top to bottom needs to go back to what it was, telling stories through great matches. To do that, you need a booker with the mind for being open but having a vision. Buh Buh Ray has no vision, he gave his girlfriend, her friend, and his bosses girlfriend a prominent role against someone who wouldn't have belonged on an ROH show in 2004. You have all this talent and nobody molding them in any direction because Joe Koff doesn't know how to run a wrestling company. They got lucky with NJPW, they got luckier with The Bucks & Cody. They owe nothing of their success to Joe Koff, Delirious or really anyone in present day management aside from Gary Juster. ~JS

[dhads7161]

The best review of the show I've read/listen so far is Lanza's at the last VOW Flagship podcast, tbh.

I still don't know why peopel hate to much on ROH part of the show, I mean, THEY GOT THE F'N UNDERCARD, what did you expect? 60 minute classics? ROH were on the Tag Title, Opener and Jr Title, but nobody mention that. The Ladder Match was great... But tons of people says it was horrible. Taven getting the win, as well as Kenny and Flip teaming with LB against Bully all made sense booking wise, but yeah, since people talking about it don't follow the product they just shit about everything they don't like.

It's really depressing to read Twitter and all these reviews. During Mania Weekend, when I was just watching wrestling live and talking with my friends without looking to the internet everything was better. It looks like on the internet you cannot have a normal opinion, you gotta be edgy and shit about everything you see.

I like your opinion Alex. Seems like everyone is shutting on ROH just because of the love affair people seem to have with NJPW. Overall the show delivered from all points. Were there some things that were disappointing? Hell yeah there was, would have loved to see RUSH and Dalton tear it up, but that match had a bigger purpose than being a show stealing match, made RUSH look like a beast and finalized Dalton's heel turn that's been coming for some time. Then there's all the bitching about Enzo & Cass, can no wrestling company go outside of their box? The only real thing to complain about from the ROH side was Klein vs. Iwatani, that match just ended up falling flat but I think a lot of that has to do with the way the Women of Honor are handled. WWE just headlined WrestleMania with a women's match, but the WOH continue to be booked like a secondary division, wrestling is about perception, if fans perceive a part of your show as men then it's going to be meh.

[dhads7161]

I find it ironic that now people are super mad ROH is being critiqued when the product sucked since Sinclair bought it. They've kept Delirious and now he's insulated to the point where Bubba Ray Dudley is booking. The whole thing top to bottom needs to go back to what it was, telling stories through great matches. To do that, you need a booker with the mind for being open but having a vision. Buh Buh Ray has no vision, he gave his girlfriend, her friend, and his bosses girlfriend a prominent role against someone who wouldn't have belonged on an ROH show in 2004. You have all this talent and nobody molding them in any direction because Joe Koff doesn't know how to run a wrestling company. They got lucky with NJPW, they got luckier with The Bucks & Cody. They owe nothing of their success to Joe Koff, Delirious or really anyone in present day management aside from Gary Juster. ~JS

I agree that Koff and Delerious are nimrods but I have faith in Bubba. The Allure gimmick I would be willing to bet is 66% Bubba with Sky and Love and 33% Delerious having a grudge against Madison Rayne and wanting nothing more than to push his old lady in a top angle. Wouldn't surprise me if Bubba pitched this with the three former Beautiful people but Lizard Man shut it down because he's a douche.

[Chrisvegas27]

If you watched master of the craft the allure is being positioned is not just a mean girl group but influencers at least that what commentary kept saying but if I'm not mistaken the beautiful people in impact was bullies who thought they were pretty than everyone so at least it seems roh is trying to give them a different direction and purpose

[AnHonorableMention]

If you watched master of the craft the allure is being positioned is not just a mean girl group but influencers at least that what commentary kept saying but if I'm not mistaken the beautiful people in impact was bullies who thought they were pretty than everyone so at least it seems roh is trying to give them a different direction and purpose

I really don't care what it is or isn't or what it was. It's the same group from TNA with Delirious girl as the centerpiece and she's the least credible performer on the entire roster. ~JS

I find it ironic that now people are super mad ROH is being critiqued when the product sucked since Sinclair bought it. They've kept Delirious and now he's insulated to the point where Bubba Ray Dudley is booking. The whole thing top to bottom needs to go back to what it was, telling stories through great matches. To do that, you need a booker with the mind for being open but having a vision. Buh Buh Ray has no vision, he gave his girlfriend, her friend, and his bosses girlfriend a prominent role against someone who wouldn't have belonged on an ROH show in 2004. You have all this talent and nobody molding them in any direction because Joe Koff doesn't know how to run a wrestling company. They got lucky with NJPW, they got luckier with The Bucks & Cody. They owe nothing of their success to Joe Koff, Delirious or really anyone in present day management aside from Gary Juster. ~JS

I agree that Koff and Delerious are nimrods but I have faith in Bubba. The Allure gimmick I would be willing to bet is 66% Bubba with Sky and Love and 33% Delerious having a grudge against Madison Rayne and wanting nothing more than to push his old lady in a top angle. Wouldn't surprise me if Bubba pitched this with the three former Beautiful people but Lizard Man shut it down because he's a douche.

Anyone with a brain would have shut it down permanently. A complete waste of television space. The whole women's division really, which is disappointing because they did it with pressure from every other company out there having one. It's really awful, and considering Todd Sinclair has a lot of say I feel bad critiquing it because I really think the world of Todd. But it' a waste. ~JS

[BurningHammer]

For good or bad reasons ROH seems to be doubling down on itself, trying to create a core of it's own fans that will actually care about the product now and in the future that will grow from now on. Obviously crowds are far lower than before but I'm sure they knew that would likely be the case when they started this rebuild, It's going to take time and patience but I think in the end everyone will be happy with the result. The problem though for ROH seems to be coming from finding a balance, because there looks to be what Bully Ray wants and then their is what Delirious wants, I do think if it wasn't for Bully Ray we wouldn't have had the Beautiful People and the whole Cass and Enzo stuff but we would have the what happened with Dalton as that is Delirious's focus, so it depends what people want from the product as a whole and can you find a balance between the two.

Overall I think you can find that combination of entertainment and seriousness of wrestling it but it's going to take work, a lot of it and the right talent for it get there to please every side. Talent for me is the key issue that ROH has had for a while, I have no problem with someone like Taven and growing with him because wether people like or not he is talented and shown he can deliver, it's the likes of TK, Vinny, The Bouncers, Cheeseburger, Titus (I realise many of these guys work on creating a culture in ROH has helps talents etc and creates a freindly atmosphere but there really needs to be a change in what ROH looks for) that ROH falls so heavily. Signing the likes of Haskins and Williams is a great step, as is prominently featuring someone like Eli Isom, if ROH can continue that and look past others and try to get men and women that still fit what personality is being looked for but that can really hold their own in the ring, and have a professional look to themselves ROH will start to become that much hotter again.

I can see more Future of Honor talent being featured on TV and shows soon, with the season of Future of Honor coming hopefully it will create a fan base for them individually that will bare fruite in the long run. From what I can see they are some that can certainly hold their own for the most part and are getting better each time I see them, especially Vinny Pacifico, he looked like he would be on of those guys that would try to much and get confused out their but he has really settled into himself. The likes of Draper, Keys and Johnson have something I think they just need those matches to cement themselves as talents to watch. Also I hope Milk Chocolate can really feature at some point because they are two young guys that can really go far.

As for the Allure it can work as long as you really present the Woman of Honor as a trully elite wrestling genre, then the dichotomy between the two would work really well and they can actually generate some real heat for themselves. There does though need to be a huge revamp in the Woman of Honor roster though for it to ever get off the ground.

I enjoy the Pinncale pieces alot and there should be more of these ideas being developed but instead of looking at the real man behind the curtain so to speak, there should be a series that focuses of the backstory, development of charachters, say like PJ Black I doubt many people are realising why he is looking like Muay Tai fighter and his general attitude in and outside the ring, there is conflict and a lack of substance for us with the charachter in ROH, where as at say Bar wrestling it is settled and means something.

One thing that does need to be mentioned as a huge pro for ROH is that every talent offers something different, be it good or bad no match really feels the same as the last one, compared to other promotions which I find it a huge problem for, where every move, presentation of the match, it's physchology all feel the same and there can't any change of pace to breath or take note of what someone is doing. It's why I hope ROH does bring back the pure title, again it would offset something very different to every match on the card and from any other promotion right now. It would also give an avenue for different talent to come in show off their skills and settle into the roster especially if their gimmick, personality isn't the strongest. I would also look to bring back scramble matches and or do or die matches especially before TV tapings, events etc for newer talent, single and tag match can produce far more pressure, a 4 way nutty match to get the crowd hot is just fun for all involved.

[Wilson]

The problem though ROH seems to be coming from finding a balance, because there looks to be what Bully Ray wants and then their is what Delirious wants, I do think if it wasn't for Bully Ray we wouldn't have had the Beautiful People and the whole Cass and Enzo stuff but we would have the what happened with Dalton as that is Delirious's focus, so it depends what people want from the product as a whole and can you find a balance between the two.

I don't mean to chide you in what I'm about to say, but sentences like this are like the darkest hells imaginable. Just bleak things ahead of us if we're pining for Delirious to wrest more control back in creative. Remember how vocal we all were when Bully started in this company and how we all knew how selfishly he was performing his role in early 2017? We should have been louder.

Anyone with a brain would have shut it down permanently. A complete waste of television space. The whole women's division really, which is disappointing because they did it with pressure from every other company out there having one. It's really awful, and considering Todd Sinclair has a lot of say I feel bad critiquing it because I really think the world of Todd. But it' a waste. ~JS

Is there anything you can say that can effectively be traced back to Todd Sinclair? I'm curious to know what his creative influence might look like. I thought of him as a possible producer/booker in the company since we all got hot at Delirious in 2016 (since he's been there forever and has been a part of hundreds of classic matches and whatnot).

[BurningHammer]

I don't mean to chide you in what I'm about to say, but sentences like this are like the darkest hells imaginable. Just bleak things ahead of us if we're pining for Delirious to wrest more control back in creative. Remember how vocal we all were when Bully started in this company and how we all knew how selfishly he was performing his role in early 2017? We should have been louder.

I can completely understand the worry Wilson and that's where as a fan base we have to be heard and I think, I would hope, we have been heard as well as the wrestling community in general after everything that went down at G1 Supercard. I would be surprised if anything came from it full time considering the negative reaction.

It could be that Bully Ray's general consensus of what ROH needs might actually be right but there is a way of doing it and there is talent to do it with. If you had made the Beautiful People debut on TV, or have a run in from Cass and Enzo at a house show it would have been far more paletable and manegable for everyone, it's these decission that show a real lack of thought about how ROH fits within it's own history yet still grows but also builds with New Japan if it's going to for the future.

Overall Delirious should have a bad rep for how he has treated talent during his stint at ROH and his ability to focus on multiple talents, but when Delirious has focus and doesn't flip flop like he tends to his booking is actually pretty good i've found.

I do think overall ROH has found a better role for everyone right now and when groups splinter which they will do everyone should have real presence in the company.