Random ROH Thoughts Thread

This is the place to discuss all the latest ROH news, announcements and events!
ROHfan2002
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:07 pm

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by ROHfan2002 »

I'm not saying you all cannot have an opinion, but I strongly disagree with most of the complaining I read on here.

Is Cody the greatest wrestler to ever hold the belt? Nope. But he's a good champion. I'd put him far above Xavier, Jerry Lynn, Homicide. I'd put his reign above those of Low Ki & Roderick Srong & Michael Elgin. My point here is Cody is nowhere close to the worst champion. He has good matches. I've yet to see a title match of his that sucked. He has a strong charisma and personality that makes him a strong representative of ROH in the media. I do not understand all the Cody hate.

In 2017 we are seeing ROH get some of the best attendances they've ever had. The top two best attending shows were this year. The TV has improved incredibly in just the last 8 months. Many signaled the end of ROH when so many talents left early this year, but we have gotten some good strong talent in.

I read people praising the buzz of Evolve on here, when they struggle to get 300 people into the buildings. I read people praise PWG, when from what I've seen it is merely OK. Hell, if you popped the PWG label on any ROH show from the last four months, I bet some on here would be going bonkers for how great the product is.

I have purchased every VOD/PPV in 2016 and so far in 2017. I've yet to see a bad show. I've yet to watch an ROH live event show and think it was anything less than pretty good. I can't say that about any other wrestling promotion I've watched in the last five years.

This is not 2005 Ring of Honor. It can't be. But with SBG we have a company that is smartly ran isn't losing money, and brings me quality pro wrestling that never disappoints in the ring.
WebConn
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:18 am

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by WebConn »

My whole "Dalton should go over" argument isn't because I think COdy sucks. I don't think cody sucks, I enjoy his wrestling and I respect what he has done for himself and the career resurgence he has had since leaving the WWE. Cody vs Suzuki didn't suck per se but the finish was underwhelming that match should have went five more minutes. My argument for Dalton going over at Final Battle and winning the Championship has more to do with how over Dalton is and how his character's journey from going out first round in the Top Prospect tournament to World Champion in a four and a half year span and how over he is would be a great moment.

I would give Dalton a chance as Champion. Make Castle vs Cody vs Ibushi at WrestleKingdom. Run some world title defenses at the Nashville, Concord, and Atlanta and then give the Championship back to Cody at the Anniversary Show if business does go down once Dalton is champ. I believe they gotta get guys ready to be daws and keep houses up once Bullet Club fizzles out. That's what ultimately killed WCW is they didn't have anybody ready to go once the nWo had run it's course. If Dalton beats Cody and shows that he is credible enough to beat a Bullet Club member and win the big won then he's in. Dalton doesn't need a long run he just needs a run, to let the fans know that if they invest in a wrestler and watch their growth in the company that it will pay off.

Silas Young is another guy that I think needs to be pushed to that next level. Have him beat King for the TV title get a long run with it and beat some names and then push him towards a World Title run.
User avatar
AlexROH
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:41 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Contact:

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

Hey! I was reading NJPW's website and there are still big possibilities of Dalton Castle winning the World Title at Final Battle this year. In the article where they talk about Cody vs Ibushi title match, it also say this:
"この時点でCodyがベルトを保持していない場合はスペシャルシングルマッチとして行う。"
This means that if Cody isn't champion on January 4th, the match would be a special attraction match. So, Dalton could win the World Title and then we'll have a regular match between Cody and Ibushi at the Tokyo Dome. We'll see what happens.
dhads7161
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 11:23 pm
Location: Southeast Missouri

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by dhads7161 »

AlexROH wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:50 am In the article where they talk about Cody vs Ibushi title match, it also say this:
"この時点でCodyがベルトを保持していない場合はスペシャルシングルマッチとして行う。"
Thanks Alex, because we all can read Japanese.
User avatar
AlexROH
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:41 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Contact:

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

dhads7161 wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:05 am
AlexROH wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:50 am In the article where they talk about Cody vs Ibushi title match, it also say this:
"この時点でCodyがベルトを保持していない場合はスペシャルシングルマッチとして行う。"
Thanks Alex, because we all can read Japanese.
Ahahahahaha, that's why I translated it. I always like to put the original text so everybody can see it's real information.
dhads7161
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 11:23 pm
Location: Southeast Missouri

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by dhads7161 »

Just being silly, btw.
dhads7161
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 11:23 pm
Location: Southeast Missouri

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by dhads7161 »

WebConn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:59 pm My argument for Dalton going over at Final Battle and winning the Championship has more to do with how over Dalton is and how his character's journey from going out first round in the Top Prospect tournament to World Champion in a four and a half year span and how over he is would be a great moment.
Actually it would be just under three. It was the 2015 TPT. I remember that match too. Got to see it live (loved that set of tapings with Alberto's ROH debut very fun) Ashley Sixx was pretty much the favorite to win the damn thing. In that first round match though the Nashville crowd just loved Dalton from the start. He may not have won that TPT but he certainly ended up being the biggest star to come out of it.
kovs27
Posts: 1430
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 10:00 am

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by kovs27 »

ROHfan2002 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:38 pm I'm not saying you all cannot have an opinion, but I strongly disagree with most of the complaining I read on here.

Is Cody the greatest wrestler to ever hold the belt? Nope. But he's a good champion. I'd put him far above Xavier, Jerry Lynn, Homicide. I'd put his reign above those of Low Ki & Roderick Srong & Michael Elgin. My point here is Cody is nowhere close to the worst champion. He has good matches. I've yet to see a title match of his that sucked. He has a strong charisma and personality that makes him a strong representative of ROH in the media. I do not understand all the Cody hate.

In 2017 we are seeing ROH get some of the best attendances they've ever had. The top two best attending shows were this year. The TV has improved incredibly in just the last 8 months. Many signaled the end of ROH when so many talents left early this year, but we have gotten some good strong talent in.

I read people praising the buzz of Evolve on here, when they struggle to get 300 people into the buildings. I read people praise PWG, when from what I've seen it is merely OK. Hell, if you popped the PWG label on any ROH show from the last four months, I bet some on here would be going bonkers for how great the product is.

I have purchased every VOD/PPV in 2016 and so far in 2017. I've yet to see a bad show. I've yet to watch an ROH live event show and think it was anything less than pretty good. I can't say that about any other wrestling promotion I've watched in the last five years.

This is not 2005 Ring of Honor. It can't be. But with SBG we have a company that is smartly ran isn't losing money, and brings me quality pro wrestling that never disappoints in the ring.
I agree with almost everything Webconn followed this post with. It's more about it being Daltons time and they need ROH guys getting over on BC once in a while. I will disagree with Cody being the draw for these sold out shows. I don't think his presence is hurting ticket sales but Bullet Club/Young Bucks are the draws. When I go to the live events you can see who the crowd is there to see. The Young Bucks are still white hot. If Cody wasn't in BC would he still be on top, I don't think so. Would these shows still be sold out, absolutely. As long as the Bucks are there people are going to show up. They aren't even in a real program right now other than screwing with Flip Gordon.
TYFDK
Posts: 3590
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by TYFDK »

With Stephen Amell coming in for a show later this month, it's made me think of the few instances ROH has had celebrities come in and make appearances.

Taimak showed up a few times with Jimmy Yang in '06.

Johnny Fairplay made a few appearances, too. I think in 2007, 2008, and 2010 with...

Alexis Arquette, who literally only just valeted Fairplay.

I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting, but if not, it seems as though Stephen may be the biggest celeb get in their 15 year history.
WebConn
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:18 am

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by WebConn »

Taimark makes sense to me, Jimmy Yang has that goofy sense of humor and brought in Bruce Leroy from Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon to combat Jimmy Rave and The Embassy. And I also have it on good authority that Sho'nuff the main antagonist of the flick made a cameo at Final Battle '06*.

Johnny Fairplay doesn't make sense. Taimark as Bruce Leroy makes sense that fits into ROH I get that, it's a fun and different way to use a celebrity and he never wrestled. Fairplay seems too hokey, pro wrasslin' celebrity for ROH to use unless he took a Jay Driller than why even do it.

Also Tom Lawler and Shayna Baszler when they were in the UFC accompanied ReDRagon to the ring at Final Battle and an Anniversary Show. I was at the show Baszler was on and it was cool she punched someone out.

*I do wish that they pulled an audible did an impromptu tag match of Yang and Bruce Leroy vs Rave and Sho'nuff. it could've worked if Leroy and Sho'nuff were kept to a minimum and besides a pose off they weren't end and of course Leroy roundhouse kicking Rave.
Big Red Machine
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:03 pm
Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:24 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm I said it in earlier post. ROH is now a bottom line business. As much as it pains me to say this, but my gut is telling me that Cody retains in some heelish fashion at Final Battle. Cody draws, ergo Delirious keeps the belt on him. I think the bigger picture is to see how much money they can draw from a prolonged chase with Castle. I have gotten tired of Castle's act, but would be fine with him as champion because he's not Cody.

Ibushi is a safe opponent for Cody, as he can cheat to win with Bullet Club tactics and neither guy gets hurt with the outcome.

Cody is over with the ROH masses because they have been programmed to. His title defenses have fallen in the range from shit to woefully average at best. For the life of me I can't figure out why the ROH fanbase are accepting of mediocrity, but they have and this is where we are at.
This is the thing that bugs me the most. It really feels like this all came out of nowhere. Sure, heels used to get cheered, but it's like the very moment that they did that Bullet Club invasion in Chicago, somehow the falls all got replaced, too, and the crowds just started accepting whatever silly (non-Kevin Sullivan-involving) bullsh*t the wrestlers and booker decide to do. ROH has become a bottom-line business, yes, but when did the fanbase change to the point where what is best for the bottom line is mediocre wrestling with bullsh*t antics in every match was opposed to quality wrestling and storytelling?
Yeah man, we are on the same page. What is really odd is that for the most part, the TV show has been quite good lately and has abstained from that for the most part. I am behind in my viewing but the matches have been straightforward. So then it begs the question, are you giving new viewers a false impression of the product? It's a schizophrenic presentation of the product. It's almost like the in ring antics are an amalgam of PWG with NJPW blatant interference booking shortcuts... which is fine for those respective promotions, but the ROH style is what? I couldn't tell you. And the fans cheer this shit, but for how long? I like PWG because it's PWG. I like NJPW because it's NJPW. ROH has no identity.

You point to the Chicago show as the impetus for this and you would be correct. But Cody beating Daniels really kicked this to whole other level of absurdity. One that I think is just the beginning. Straightforward wrestling is going by the wayside and I don't think the suits making a profit, Delirious having job security, or the wrestlers with the clout in back really give a fuck.
The point about Delirious and the wrestlers with clout not caring is interesting. I think that's an important thing to note as it seems to mark a shift back towards a much older mentality where the wrestlers will do what they can to make the crowd happy while exerting as little effort as possible on their part, because the more things you do, the more likely you are to get hurt. I understand where they're coming from, but it's a start contrast to what indy wrestling has been for the past twenty years, which was guys going out there to have the best match possible for the sake of the art of professional wrestling. It's wrestling for fans to enjoy rather than wrestling for fans to appreciate.
Big Red Machine
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

dhads7161 wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:36 pm To me there are just more options for challengers with Cody. With Dalton who is there really? More matches with Cody, Daniels, Jay Briscoe, maybe Hangman, and maybe Silas Young. Cody can pretty much defend against anyone.

Now that we know Jericho is working WK, I am convinced ROH is or possibly has worked out a deal with him and they'll be working towards Cody vs. Jericho at SCOH.
Dalton can defend against anyone, too, if you build them up well, but I do agree with the general idea that you're getting at there there aren't enough strong heels on the roster. Part of that is due to Bullet Club playing heels but being treated as faces, but another part of it due to neutering guys The Addiction by making them comedy acts, and booking others like Martinez and Dijak into midcard oblivion rather than giving them an upwards trajectory.
Big Red Machine
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

I'd love to see Jericho in ROH, but putting him against Cody would be a terrible idea.
Big Red Machine
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

ROHfan2002 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:38 pm I'm not saying you all cannot have an opinion, but I strongly disagree with most of the complaining I read on here.

Is Cody the greatest wrestler to ever hold the belt? Nope. But he's a good champion. I'd put him far above Xavier, Jerry Lynn, Homicide. I'd put his reign above those of Low Ki & Roderick Srong & Michael Elgin. My point here is Cody is nowhere close to the worst champion. He has good matches. I've yet to see a title match of his that sucked. He has a strong charisma and personality that makes him a strong representative of ROH in the media. I do not understand all the Cody hate.

In 2017 we are seeing ROH get some of the best attendances they've ever had. The top two best attending shows were this year. The TV has improved incredibly in just the last 8 months. Many signaled the end of ROH when so many talents left early this year, but we have gotten some good strong talent in.

I read people praising the buzz of Evolve on here, when they struggle to get 300 people into the buildings. I read people praise PWG, when from what I've seen it is merely OK. Hell, if you popped the PWG label on any ROH show from the last four months, I bet some on here would be going bonkers for how great the product is.

I have purchased every VOD/PPV in 2016 and so far in 2017. I've yet to see a bad show. I've yet to watch an ROH live event show and think it was anything less than pretty good. I can't say that about any other wrestling promotion I've watched in the last five years.

This is not 2005 Ring of Honor. It can't be. But with SBG we have a company that is smartly ran isn't losing money, and brings me quality pro wrestling that never disappoints in the ring.
We clearly have vastly different standards of quality of wrestling and booking and stories being told and just about everything possible, but the real question I want answered is why people keep saying this "can't be" 2005 ROH, at least in terms of the quality of the talent and the wrestling and the storytelling? That's all I want from "2005 ROH." No one is arguing that they should return to running 500 seat buildings. I just want good wrestling and good booking. Why can't those elements come back?
Big Red Machine
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

WebConn wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:58 pm Taimark makes sense to me, Jimmy Yang has that goofy sense of humor and brought in Bruce Leroy from Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon to combat Jimmy Rave and The Embassy. And I also have it on good authority that Sho'nuff the main antagonist of the flick made a cameo at Final Battle '06*.

Johnny Fairplay doesn't make sense. Taimark as Bruce Leroy makes sense that fits into ROH I get that, it's a fun and different way to use a celebrity and he never wrestled. Fairplay seems too hokey, pro wrasslin' celebrity for ROH to use unless he took a Jay Driller than why even do it.

Also Tom Lawler and Shayna Baszler when they were in the UFC accompanied ReDRagon to the ring at Final Battle and an Anniversary Show. I was at the show Baszler was on and it was cool she punched someone out.

*I do wish that they pulled an audible did an impromptu tag match of Yang and Bruce Leroy vs Rave and Sho'nuff. it could've worked if Leroy and Sho'nuff were kept to a minimum and besides a pose off they weren't end and of course Leroy roundhouse kicking Rave.
Fairplay was paired up with Larry Sweeney for his 07 and 08 appearances. I don't remember him showing up in 2010.
TYFDK
Posts: 3590
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by TYFDK »

Big Red Machine wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:01 pm
WebConn wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:58 pm Taimark makes sense to me, Jimmy Yang has that goofy sense of humor and brought in Bruce Leroy from Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon to combat Jimmy Rave and The Embassy. And I also have it on good authority that Sho'nuff the main antagonist of the flick made a cameo at Final Battle '06*.

Johnny Fairplay doesn't make sense. Taimark as Bruce Leroy makes sense that fits into ROH I get that, it's a fun and different way to use a celebrity and he never wrestled. Fairplay seems too hokey, pro wrasslin' celebrity for ROH to use unless he took a Jay Driller than why even do it.

Also Tom Lawler and Shayna Baszler when they were in the UFC accompanied ReDRagon to the ring at Final Battle and an Anniversary Show. I was at the show Baszler was on and it was cool she punched someone out.

*I do wish that they pulled an audible did an impromptu tag match of Yang and Bruce Leroy vs Rave and Sho'nuff. it could've worked if Leroy and Sho'nuff were kept to a minimum and besides a pose off they weren't end and of course Leroy roundhouse kicking Rave.
Fairplay was paired up with Larry Sweeney for his 07 and 08 appearances. I don't remember him showing up in 2010.
SoCal Showdown, for the Larry Zbysko vs. Scotty 2 Hotty match.
User avatar
AlexROH
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:41 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Contact:

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by AlexROH »

Big Red Machine wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:57 pm We clearly have vastly different standards of quality of wrestling and booking and stories being told and just about everything possible, but the real question I want answered is why people keep saying this "can't be" 2005 ROH, at least in terms of the quality of the talent and the wrestling and the storytelling? That's all I want from "2005 ROH." No one is arguing that they should return to running 500 seat buildings. I just want good wrestling and good booking. Why can't those elements come back?
Wanting a company to be as great as it was 10 years ago is called living in the past. Things can't be the same forever. As I always say, a company has to do what is best for business. That's the most important thing in capitalism. The scene is so different from what it was in 2005. Now you have a lot of companies in the country and NXT. People now can live from the indy wrestling and they wrestle wherever they want whenever they want. ROH isn't a indy, so they have their roster under contract. Lots of talents wants to wrestle everywhere, so they aren't going to sign a contract. Yeah, now you're gonna tell me that EVOLVE also had contract, but they aren't exclusive and they aren't on national TV. The young indy guys prefer travelling to stay just in ROH. The big difference is that back in the mid-2000s, ROH used the top talents, but they still were working everywhere, just like, nowadays, AAW does. With National TV and contracts, you just can't have every wrestler. And you also have to think in NXT and the new direction in WWE hiring a lot of younger talents. ROH's current roster is very good and they can use talents from all over the world thanks to their alliances. You say the roster outside Bullet Club is bad? Just look at the Soaring Eagle Cup. 1000+ people in a show with just 4 matches announced and only half of the BC.

Again, stop asking ROH to be as they were 10 years ago. Things evolve. 2005-2006 was the peak of Gabe's booking and he had the most talented roster of the US. You can't imitate that. Delirious isn't the best booker in the world. We all have talked bad about him. But c'mon, this year was going to be a disaster after the exodus and you know what, is has been the best year ever. Great TV, great crowds and solid top to bottom shows. Booking isn't the best, but it's pretty good in most part. This booking is better than the other two companies in national TV (WWE and Impact). Is it as great as it was in 2005? No. Is it bad? No. Also, you can't compare a booking during a DVD Era when every show had to be awesome for selling copies to the current era, with national tv tapings, b-shows, VODs and iPPVs/PPVs. It isn't the same.

You always talk like ROH is acting like TNA back in the early 2010s. ROH had an awesome run as the big super-indy, had some darker years with the beggining of their TV deal but now they are in a phonomenal position. They are selling more and more, their crowds are increasing, they are generating more buzz than ever and they are MAKING MONEY, something they weren't able to do in almost a DECADE. Why should they change? Just bc a part of the old fanbase wants them to be "super-indy cool"? Don't misunderstand me, I LOVED ROH's Golden years. I know they aren't the best promotion in the world from an in-ring perspective, but I still enjoy their product bc is very good. Now you'll say it isn't good for the ROH standars and this discussion will go forever.

Time past and everything changes. ROH has been able to grow, have international exposure and still keep the good wrestling. It isn't about "Honor", super dream cards and all of that anymore. Now is about having a solid product, making money and increase their fanbase (something that they are doing great so far). Please, stop talking about current ROH comparing it to the old one. Just enjoy, or stop watching, the current one. Don't compare it to the old ROH in every single review. Everybody knows that it has changed. With all the wrestling available nowadays, you don't have to watch every single ROH show if it hurts you so much.

ROH started and grew up in the businness being a Super-Indy. But they have established and expanded thanks to their current format. It's a company. They have evolved and times have proved they were right.
dhads7161
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 11:23 pm
Location: Southeast Missouri

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by dhads7161 »

The Dragon Saga wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:42 pm Ring is Jericho (sorry Homicide) is a t-shirt waiting to be printed.
What about Honor is Jericho?
User avatar
Wilson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:05 am
Location: US Northeast

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Wilson »

AlexROH wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:31 am Just enjoy, or stop watching, the current one. Don't compare it to the old ROH in every single review. Everybody knows that it has changed. With all the wrestling available nowadays, you don't have to watch every single ROH show if it hurts you so much.
From what I've seen here, most people criticize ROH because they genuinely want to see it get better--BRM probably being the best example of that. If people can't criticize ROH because they don't want the product or shouldn't criticize because they watch too much of the product that messages obvious issues. Namely that everyone should by some means be a Brand True-Believer, which is a power that Johnston and Koff just haven't earned.

Besides, I haven't even seen a remotely hot take about ROH in months! ROH is succeeding greatly. The Bullet Club is one of the strongest wrestling brands in the last decade. Cody, to many, has been placed in a questionable role at the main event level. ROH should be building more stars because they will always need it. These are all true, and it feels like every conversation rearranges these elements to build an unambiguous case if ROH is either good or bad.

It's productive to comment upon or interrogate the promotion as it reveals itself; it's not productive to choose a side.
User avatar
Wilson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:05 am
Location: US Northeast

Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Wilson »

AlexROH wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:50 am Hey! I was reading NJPW's website and there are still big possibilities of Dalton Castle winning the World Title at Final Battle this year. In the article where they talk about Cody vs Ibushi title match, it also say this:
"この時点でCodyがベルトを保持していない場合はスペシャルシングルマッチとして行う。"
This means that if Cody isn't champion on January 4th, the match would be a special attraction match. So, Dalton could win the World Title and then we'll have a regular match between Cody and Ibushi at the Tokyo Dome. We'll see what happens.
:thinking emoji
Possible turnaround-is-fair-play for that early ROH copy of Omega defending the IWGP US belt in Chicago?
Post Reply