Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[ndp]

I was wondering if there would be an ROH team in the tournament. Apparently NJPW wanted one, but ROH didn't want to spare the Bucks, Briscoes or Red Dragon since it conflicted with Final Battle and a month's worth of TV tapings. I hope they fare well.

[AlexROH]

Very good performance by Jay Lethal at Power Struggle. He worked his ass off during the match. The main problem was the crowd, putting Lethal, that hasn't had a lot of matches in Japan, in a main event of and 4 hours plus show was a bad move. People just cheer for Naito, it's normal. However, very happy with his performance, he just botched a Lariat in the middle of the match, bad timming by Naito, IMO. If they would had wrestle this match in ROH, with a hat crowd, this would have been better.

Jay Lethal vs Tetsuya Naito - ***1/2

[Wilson]

Very good performance by Jay Lethal at Power Struggle. He worked his ass off during the match. The main problem was the crowd, putting Lethal, that hasn't had a lot of matches in Japan, in a main event of and 4 hours plus show was a bad move. People just cheer for Naito, it's normal. However, very happy with his performance, he just botched a Lariat in the middle of the match, bad timming by Naito, IMO. If they would had wrestle this match in ROH, with a hat crowd, this would have been better.

Jay Lethal vs Tetsuya Naito - ***1/2

I thought Jay Lethal should have put together a much more ambitious effort. Despite him knowing that he wasn't over and that he was being given a very big opportunity, he only worked a conservative match.

Also, the match most specifically gave evidence to the difference in quality from ROH top workers to NJPW top workers. Of course the match wasn't a debacle, but I would not call it a success in any real definition. I wonder if NJPW will trust ROH talent to do something like this again in the near future.

[Memphis Mark]

Very good performance by Jay Lethal at Power Struggle. He worked his ass off during the match. The main problem was the crowd, putting Lethal, that hasn't had a lot of matches in Japan, in a main event of and 4 hours plus show was a bad move. People just cheer for Naito, it's normal. However, very happy with his performance, he just botched a Lariat in the middle of the match, bad timming by Naito, IMO. If they would had wrestle this match in ROH, with a hat crowd, this would have been better.

Jay Lethal vs Tetsuya Naito - ***1/2

I thought Jay Lethal should have put together a much more ambitious effort. Despite him knowing that he wasn't over and that he was being given a very big opportunity, he only worked a conservative match.

Also, the match most specifically gave evidence to the difference in quality from ROH top workers to NJPW top workers. Of course the match wasn't a debacle, but I would not call it a success in any real definition. I wonder if NJPW will trust ROH talent to do something like this again in the near future.

Jay Lethal is not the NJPW booker. The booker lays out the match , not the worker. Jay just went with the plan .

[Thelone]

Jay Lethal : Glorified Midcarder. The sooner ROH gets that point the better (I'm sure NJPW got it after that shambolic display).

[christopherclinton55]

Jay Lethal : Glorified Midcarder. The sooner ROH gets that point the better (I'm sure NJPW got it after that shambolic display).

That might be true however you have something personal against him so I expect you to say that

[Wilson]

Jay Lethal is not the NJPW booker. The booker lays out the match , not the worker. Jay just went with the plan .

Is Jay Lethal not responsible for getting the crowd invested either? As a a main event, this match would have to be worked uphill all the way--I realize that, but I still don't think it was a good enough showing.

As a supporter of him in ROH, I will say that his matches have been very underwhelming in NJPW thus far. I don't want to blame him entirely, because he is obviously being thrust into things over there, but his work just hasn't been up to scratch, especially when it's noted that he has worked against Elgin, Honma, Kojima, and Naito.

[christopherclinton55]

I thought the Lethal Naito match was good. Was it great no was as bad as people on here making it out to be no. I agree that it shouldn't have main event but there was nothing Lethal could have done to win over that crowd. It has great counters like the ddt block into death valley driver and the inverted finley roll into a crossface.

[The Dragon Saga]

Jay Lethal : Glorified Midcarder. The sooner ROH gets that point the better (I'm sure NJPW got it after that shambolic display).

That might be true however you have something personal against him so I expect you to say that

Thelone seems like a guy who throws his birthday cake on the floor if someone buys him one, just so he could say that even though he didn't taste it, had he, it wouldn't have been good enough, the birthday cake would be a "glorified birthday cake" to his standards.

[187_Joeism]

Adam Page is booked for NJPW World Tag League so he is out of Final Battle

[jordidebaas]

Jay Lethal is not the NJPW booker. The booker lays out the match , not the worker. Jay just went with the plan .

That's actually not really how it works

[Memphis Mark]

Jay Lethal is not the NJPW booker. The booker lays out the match , not the worker. Jay just went with the plan .

That's actually not really how it works

GEE . YOU ARE RIGHT. WHAT WAS I THINKING. THE TALENT DOES WHATEVER THEY WANT IN THE RING. THE BOOKER HAS NO SAY ABOUT THE MATCH . THE BOOKER DOES NOT EVEN COME UP WITH THE FINISH . I TOTALLY GOT IT WRONG . YOU ARE RIGHT , JAY LETHAL CALLED THAT ENTIRE MATCH IN THE RING , THE NJPW BOOKER HAD NO HAND IN THE MATCH. THAT FOR SETTING ME STRAIGHT ON HOW WRESTLING REALLY WORKS.

[Wilson]

Let’s not resort to caps lock.

Although he is not solely to blame in this, Lethal has been a common component in a lot of lackluster matches this year in NJPW. Lethal vs. Naito was not bad, but it was pretty close.

Of course, the result that is most interesting is how New Japan views utilizing ROH stars on their shows. The commentary repeatedly put over Jay Lethal as the ROH Ace, though the match did not exactly feel like an encounter of two big international stars and it probably hurts ROH to have these flat showcases. It is NJPW’s decision to either take this back to the drawing board or to diminish the singles roles ROH stars have on their cards. I hope it’s the former.

[AlexROH]

I think that isn't that bad or something New Japan officials didn't expected. I mean, Lethal was plan B, he wasn't promoted as a big threat for Naito's reign in Japan. He wasn't even in the "Road to Tour" for create a big fight atmosphere. New Japan just put Lethat in that position because Elgin got injured. I cannot believe a single person that though that the crowd was going to cheer Lethal in Japan. New Japan didn't care about him, I'm sure that the crowd didn't even knew if he was heel or face.

Lethal has had lackluster matches in Japan. Yeah, his match with Elgin was bad and his matches with Kojima and Homma were pretty average. But that doesn't mean that his a bad wrestler or just a midcarder. He work his ass off everytime he's put in big matches and he deliver. I know he isn't a BIG star or something like that, but he is a great worker and deliver great performances inside his character. Maybe he is not the perfect wrestler to work New Japan's big-match formula, but that doesn't mean he is bad. Plus, I'm sure that if Lethal vs Naito would have take place in a ROH event, crowd would have answered in a good way.

This reminds me a lot to the Elgin situation before he went to Japan. Everyone was booing him and talking shit about his work. Everyone said that he wasn't going to be big in Japan. One year later, he proved everybody wrong and come back to USA as a champion. With that, all I wanna say is that Jay Lethal shouldn't be treated as a shitty overpushed wrestler, he's in a position that he deserve and had delivered in a great way, just look at the crowds every time he wrestle, even when he was a heel he got some of the biggest ovations of the night. By any means I'm saying that he is the greatest wrestler in the world or ROH's bigger champion in history, but he isn't as bad as a big part of the IWC said he is.

[Thelone]

That might be true however you have something personal against him so I expect you to say that

Something personal ? Really ?

I do think Lethal is grossly overpushed and doesn't deliver nearly as much as a main eventer should (he shat the bed a lot during his reign of terror), but to say that I have some crazy vendetta against the guy is just ridiculous.

TEXT IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE ANGRY

I imagine you in 2001 going on and on about how "That carny McMahon can't possibly buy WCW from AOL Time Warner, a company that's worth billions and billlions".

[AlexROH]

With ACH out of Final Battle... Will Lio Rush team with KUSHIDA and Jay White at the trios tournament final?

[Brada]

I don't see any other logical choice? Wonder how they will explain the ACH absence?

[BurningHammer]

Just be honest, there is no other choice for me, he left and it is what it is. Unless the reasons really want to explored which could just open up a large can of worms (all theory no evidence).

Overall it sucks he isn't in ROH, but It doesn't really look that team is wining so I think loosing wont hurt the members of the team as much as it would hurt ACH. There are actually a lot of guys who could leave and it will be better for everyone considering how messed the booking for certain guys has been. A fresh start from now for new guys would be the best choice really and I don't think a lot of people would have agenda's against certain guys. I just can't see anything like what has happened with Page happening now as there is far more clarity.

[project161]

I would like to see Daniels pull off the win for the tournament and challenge at the anniversary show. ROH has ignored the idea of paying lineage to its roots on the anniversary show for a few years now, so I like the idea of the tournament from that perspective. Some of the talents could have been booked in stronger positions to be more "qualified" for it rather than just being a part of the company in its early days.

If they were to go with Daniels, he has been losing a lot lately and they realistically have four months to build him back up before the anniversary show. At this point, I have much more interest in him having a world title reign, even if its brief, than Kyle winning the belt since at least Daniels can give heat to programs. Plus, I'm sure he would work hard to really sell whoever he would drop the belt to as having earned it by the time that match would roll around.

Realistically, if they went the same kind of route that ROH did with Jimmy Jacobs around 3 years ago with Daniels trying to earn back his fanfare by putting on high quality matches with a variety of talents, I think that would be a good way to create interest in him getting back in that spotlight that he once had. Even if they were to pull a Punk and turn Daniels after winning the belt (since Daniels has always played a better heel than a face, so him as a heel champion in this scenario would be more ideal especially if the idea were to get someone over on him down the line.)

[Brada]

just seems to me that establishing him as a serious contender in 3 or 4 months would be incredibly difficult considering how much jobbing he has done in singles over the recent past....