Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[Wilson]

Lethal cheating to win in the midcard really is not a major evil. It’s OK to make faces look like they were cheated out of their opportunities.

If he needs to cheat to beat midcarders than he is not being booked strongly. , If they followed up on these with some sort of rematch and a clean win for Lethal it would be one thing, but they just never mention it again.

You watch more ROH than I do, but Lethal’s cheating does not strike me as flagrant as you find it. He cheats, but he back it up by beating Styles fairly at Final Battle and Jay Briscoe at Best in the World.

Would you argue that someone in ROH is portrayed as strong as Lethal during the past year? By dead reckoning, I am wont to say that he is one of their most protected stars ever.

[187_Joeism]

Heels are supposed to cheat, i don´t see anything wrong about doing it. For example if Lethal cheats to beat Cheeseburger is not because he can´t beat him without that, is because he is a dick and likes to do it either way.

[Wilson]

Imagine the nuclear heat Adam Page would get if he got booked to "hang" one of the black guys on the roster.

From the African American community, the fanbase, Wrestling Observer, and just about any sensible person privy to the news? Nuclear I-will-never-support-your-product-again heat.

Page himself did an interview once he joined the Bullet Club and talked about this in particular, he said that people really have double standards with that subject and gave the example of Jon Snow (Game of Thrones) hanging a child and people not freaking out about it. I think it was some interesting comparasion.

In the US, people are still very sensitive to racial inequality, especially since it is still, in general, so prevalent. The violence was just so odious, I don't want that quoted in my wrestling, which is known to treat sensitive subjects as maladroitly as possible.

It would be as offensive as alluding to the fascism in the Spanish Civil War.

Even for a product that spent a year decontextualizing, caricaturizing, fetishizing, and humiliating gay characters, reenacting a “lynching” would be the worst thing in the company’s history.

[Memphis Mark]

It is hard to imagine anything being worse than a Shane Hagadorn match.

[Burnside]

I think the hangman gimmick is idiotic in general.

Adam Page seems to be attempting to murder people by hanging them by their necks with a noose. At the very least I would expect this to warrant a stern reprimand from Ring of Honor's HR Department. Or, you know, immediate arrest for attempted murder in front of hundreds of witnesses.

Jay Lethal's over here trying to get heel heat for like pulling tights and having Hendrix distract the ref. Why doesn't he just strangle his opponents to death if there are no discernible consequences for that?

KEVIN KELLY'S VIEW FROM RINGSIDE
The Bullet Club showed why they're one of the most popular and controversial groups in all of professional wrestling this week when Adam Page attempted to break Will Ferrara's neck and suffocate him to death as the Young Bucks made little wolf faces with their fingers! While lovable mouth-breathing piglet Ferrara was not murdered, paralyzed, or left in a permanent vegetative state by this particular lynching, you never know what could happen with the Bullet Club - and that's why fans love their rebellious attitude! Love him or hate him, Adam Page is trying to kill his fellow wrestlers. The best part is, you the fans decide who to boo or cheer! After the near-homicide was interrupted by the Motor City Machine Guns, the Bullet Club made their way over to the merchandise table and sold out all their t-shirts! Yours in Wresting, Kevin Kelly

[Big Red Machine]

Lethal cheating to win in the midcard really is not a major evil. It’s OK to make faces look like they were cheated out of their opportunities.

If he needs to cheat to beat midcarders than he is not being booked strongly. , If they followed up on these with some sort of rematch and a clean win for Lethal it would be one thing, but they just never mention it again.

You watch more ROH than I do, but Lethal’s cheating does not strike me as flagrant as you find it. He cheats, but he back it up by beating Styles fairly at Final Battle and Jay Briscoe at Best in the World.

Which is precisely what bothers me. Surely if he can beat these guys without cheating then him cheating to beat Raymond Rowe should surely set up a rematch where he doesn't need to cheat to beat Rowe, either.

Would you argue that someone in ROH is portrayed as strong as Lethal during the past year? By dead reckoning, I am wont to say that he is one of their most protected stars ever.

Jay Briscoe was been MUCH more protected.

[Big Red Machine]

Page himself did an interview once he joined the Bullet Club and talked about this in particular, he said that people really have double standards with that subject and gave the example of Jon Snow (Game of Thrones) hanging a child and people not freaking out about it. I think it was some interesting comparasion.

In the US, people are still very sensitive to racial inequality, especially since it is still, in general, so prevalent. The violence was just so odious, I don't want that quoted in my wrestling, which is known to treat sensitive subjects as maladroitly as possible.

It would be as offensive as alluding to the fascism in the Spanish Civil War.

Even for a product that spent a year decontextualizing, caricaturizing, fetishizing, and humiliating gay characters, reenacting a “lynching” would be the worst thing in the company’s history.

Except it's not a lynching! A lynching is extrajudicial "justice" committed against someone accused of a crime (with the connotation of the word implying that the accused was not guilty and was killed- and possibly even accused- only because of racial/ethnic prejudices).
This would just be Adam Page hanging a dude because Adam Page is a dick. As long as he doesn't accuse ACH of raping a white woman before doing it then any comparisons to lynching are ridiculous.

To be clear: I'm not advocating that they do it. I agree with Burnside that he whole gimmick is stupid. I'm just saying that a comparison to lynching is idiotic.

[BurningHammer]

I think the hangman gimmick is idiotic in general.

Adam Page seems to be attempting to murder people by hanging them by their necks with a noose. At the very least I would expect this to warrant a stern reprimand from Ring of Honor's HR Department. Or, you know, immediate arrest for attempted murder in front of hundreds of witnesses.

Jay Lethal's over here trying to get heel heat for like pulling tights and having Hendrix distract the ref. Why doesn't he just strangle his opponents to death if there are no discernible consequences for that?

KEVIN KELLY'S VIEW FROM RINGSIDE
The Bullet Club showed why they're one of the most popular and controversial groups in all of professional wrestling this week when Adam Page attempted to break Will Ferrara's neck and suffocate him to death as the Young Bucks made little wolf faces with their fingers! While lovable mouth-breathing piglet Ferrara was not murdered, paralyzed, or left in a permanent vegetative state by this particular lynching, you never know what could happen with the Bullet Club - and that's why fans love their rebellious attitude! Love him or hate him, Adam Page is trying to kill his fellow wrestlers. The best part is, you the fans decide who to boo or cheer! After the near-homicide was interrupted by the Motor City Machine Guns, the Bullet Club made their way over to the merchandise table and sold out all their t-shirts! Yours in Wresting, Kevin Kelly

It's wrestling, most things are. Have we just got to a point now where we expect wrestling to be real life and someone should act like they go to work in a shirt and tie.

[Wilson]

Adam Page in the Bullet Club has been very predictably miserable.

Except it's not a lynching! A lynching is extrajudicial "justice" committed against someone accused of a crime (with the connotation of the word implying that the accused was not guilty and was killed- and possibly even accused- only because of racial/ethnic prejudices).
This would just be Adam Page hanging a dude because Adam Page is a dick. As long as he doesn't accuse ACH of raping a white woman before doing it then any comparisons to lynching are ridiculous.

To be clear: I'm not advocating that they do it. I agree with Burnside that he whole gimmick is stupid. I'm just saying that a comparison to lynching is idiotic.

If I’m being idiotic, then you’re being an ass.

Virginian Adam Page hanging an African American harbors a lot more connotations than of Page “just being a dick.”

I can't really see to what reason you even posted what you did. To disabuse the notion of this being an actual lynching? How very salient.

[Burnside]

I think the hangman gimmick is idiotic in general.

Adam Page seems to be attempting to murder people by hanging them by their necks with a noose. At the very least I would expect this to warrant a stern reprimand from Ring of Honor's HR Department. Or, you know, immediate arrest for attempted murder in front of hundreds of witnesses.

Jay Lethal's over here trying to get heel heat for like pulling tights and having Hendrix distract the ref. Why doesn't he just strangle his opponents to death if there are no discernible consequences for that?

KEVIN KELLY'S VIEW FROM RINGSIDE
The Bullet Club showed why they're one of the most popular and controversial groups in all of professional wrestling this week when Adam Page attempted to break Will Ferrara's neck and suffocate him to death as the Young Bucks made little wolf faces with their fingers! While lovable mouth-breathing piglet Ferrara was not murdered, paralyzed, or left in a permanent vegetative state by this particular lynching, you never know what could happen with the Bullet Club - and that's why fans love their rebellious attitude! Love him or hate him, Adam Page is trying to kill his fellow wrestlers. The best part is, you the fans decide who to boo or cheer! After the near-homicide was interrupted by the Motor City Machine Guns, the Bullet Club made their way over to the merchandise table and sold out all their t-shirts! Yours in Wresting, Kevin Kelly

It's wrestling, most things are. Have we just got to a point now where we expect wrestling to be real life and someone should act like they go to work in a shirt and tie.

"It's wrestling" is the go-to defense of the indefensible.

[FanSinceHDNet]

I'd much rather stay away from "Southern white man in group claiming to take over hangs charismatic black man". As mentioned, lot of subtext that isn't answered as easily as "c'mon, it's rasslin!"

[trufreedom]

Holy shit. I disagree with Burnside.
There's nothing wrong with being controversial. So if Page is the white southern boy who lynches black people, why wouldn't I want to head down to the arena and boo the bigot while the babyface beats him. There's nothing wrong with using the most controversial issues of our day as fodder; the best art always does. And like, Mankind didn't actually live in the Boiler Room.

[JTCole]

Holy shit this topic

[Wilson]

Holy shit this topic

And I think I’m done humoring the subject as well.

I just think the discussed angle would be really, really crass.

[Thelone]

Everyone knows it's only ok if the Bullet Club also has one black guy in their ranks.

[BurningHammer]

I think the hangman gimmick is idiotic in general.

Adam Page seems to be attempting to murder people by hanging them by their necks with a noose. At the very least I would expect this to warrant a stern reprimand from Ring of Honor's HR Department. Or, you know, immediate arrest for attempted murder in front of hundreds of witnesses.

Jay Lethal's over here trying to get heel heat for like pulling tights and having Hendrix distract the ref. Why doesn't he just strangle his opponents to death if there are no discernible consequences for that?

KEVIN KELLY'S VIEW FROM RINGSIDE
The Bullet Club showed why they're one of the most popular and controversial groups in all of professional wrestling this week when Adam Page attempted to break Will Ferrara's neck and suffocate him to death as the Young Bucks made little wolf faces with their fingers! While lovable mouth-breathing piglet Ferrara was not murdered, paralyzed, or left in a permanent vegetative state by this particular lynching, you never know what could happen with the Bullet Club - and that's why fans love their rebellious attitude! Love him or hate him, Adam Page is trying to kill his fellow wrestlers. The best part is, you the fans decide who to boo or cheer! After the near-homicide was interrupted by the Motor City Machine Guns, the Bullet Club made their way over to the merchandise table and sold out all their t-shirts! Yours in Wresting, Kevin Kelly

It's wrestling, most things are. Have we just got to a point now where we expect wrestling to be real life and someone should act like they go to work in a shirt and tie.

"It's wrestling" is the go-to defense of the indefensible.

If we are talking about the image of hanging an African American I agree if your talking about him being very aggressive and hanging people in general I don't. Do I think it could get old very quick If it's countless times but I think if you leave to say a couple of people then It has meaning and importance and doesn't really become corny.

In no shape or form should Page be going near ACH or Lethal especially with the climate in many countries currently.

[monster mafia]

are we talking about wrestling or what??

[Thelone]

It's wrestling.

It's just a stupid gimmick no matter the skin color of the guy being hanged.

[jordidebaas]

I think it would be racist and sexist if Page only hangs white men. He should at least hang a women and a black person too, to prove that's it's not only about the fact that they're white males

[Big Red Machine]

Adam Page in the Bullet Club has been very predictably miserable.

Except it's not a lynching! A lynching is extrajudicial "justice" committed against someone accused of a crime (with the connotation of the word implying that the accused was not guilty and was killed- and possibly even accused- only because of racial/ethnic prejudices).
This would just be Adam Page hanging a dude because Adam Page is a dick. As long as he doesn't accuse ACH of raping a white woman before doing it then any comparisons to lynching are ridiculous.

To be clear: I'm not advocating that they do it. I agree with Burnside that he whole gimmick is stupid. I'm just saying that a comparison to lynching is idiotic.

If I’m being idiotic, then you’re being an ass.

Virginian Adam Page hanging an African American harbors a lot more connotations than of Page “just being a dick.”

I can't really see to what reason you even posted what you did. To disabuse the notion of this being an actual lynching? How very salient.

I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm sure people will go nuts over it (and in the bad "heat on the company" way, not the good "heat on the heel" way).
I'm saying that if you think that the word lynching simply means "one or more white men hanging a black man" then you don't know what the f*cking word word means, and to think of Page hanging ACH this as a "lynching" would be reading WAY too far into this because you're seeing things that aren't there.
Page did it to Colt Cabana. I didn't hear anyone screaming about Leo Frank. Doing it to ACH should be the same.