Random ROH Thoughts Thread

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Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

187_Joeism wrote:Maybe I'm starting to lose it but i agree with BRM in both points if that's your problem with ROH i can't see way they can't do that. I prefer the point 1 over the 2 as a way to use the house shows but i don't agree that the house shows itself should have any importance other than follow the TV/PPV.

The shows name i can't honestly care less, i watch wrestling for the matches, if a show has a good card i will buy it. Having their own name or being a Road to show means nothing to me, maybe is because i watch New Japan and they do it that way too.
This is exactly what I've been saying for months. You're not starting to lose it. You're finally starting to get it.

As for the Road to... names, in New Japan, if they are doing Shibata vs. Tanahashi at the PPV, they have them in the same match on ever show and do some stuff together. In ROH it often feels like the matches have very little connection to the PPV. It's just matches for the sake of matches. Also, if they were all "Road to" shows I wouldn't be happy about the new naming convention but I could accept it. Most of the tour names ROH uses bother me because they make no sense and because, the timing of them makes no sense (why do some of them stretch around the PPVs while the others don't? Would it make things a lot easier to keep track of if they just ran from one big event until the next?)
187_Joeism
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by 187_Joeism »

Yeah they should do "Road to" next PPV
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Wilson
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Wilson »

What they should really do is maintain a consistent philosophy whether VOD events are important or not. It's quite fine for them to dedicate themselves either way, but to vacillate on what these shows mean and their utilities is very milk-and-water. It's perplexing to consider that Supercard of Honor Nights 1 and 2 still feel like the most important shows of the year, yet Global Wars and Best in the World feel dispensable.

Even as a relatively trained ROH fan, I find myself conflicted on how I set my expectations.
Vanilla Gorilla
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Vanilla Gorilla »

Wilson wrote:What they should really do is maintain a consistent philosophy whether VOD events are important or not. It's quite fine for them to dedicate themselves either way, but to vacillate on what these shows mean and their utilities is very milk-and-water. It's perplexing to consider that Supercard of Honor Nights 1 and 2 still feel like the most important shows of the year, yet Global Wars and Best in the World feel dispensable.

Even as a relatively trained ROH fan, I find myself conflicted on how I set my expectations.
but SCOH barely got any run on their TV. That's the confusing part.
Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Wilson wrote:What they should really do is maintain a consistent philosophy whether VOD events are important or not. It's quite fine for them to dedicate themselves either way, but to vacillate on what these shows mean and their utilities is very milk-and-water. It's perplexing to consider that Supercard of Honor Nights 1 and 2 still feel like the most important shows of the year, yet Global Wars and Best in the World feel dispensable.

Even as a relatively trained ROH fan, I find myself conflicted on how I set my expectations.
This is the only year that BITW has felt dispensable (and we only know half the card this year so far), and for Global Wars... last year was dispensable. This year felt that way going in but clearly wasn't in hindsight.
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JigsawVs.Jason
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by JigsawVs.Jason »

Big Red Machine wrote:
187_Joeism wrote:Maybe I'm starting to lose it but i agree with BRM in both points if that's your problem with ROH i can't see way they can't do that. I prefer the point 1 over the 2 as a way to use the house shows but i don't agree that the house shows itself should have any importance other than follow the TV/PPV.

The shows name i can't honestly care less, i watch wrestling for the matches, if a show has a good card i will buy it. Having their own name or being a Road to show means nothing to me, maybe is because i watch New Japan and they do it that way too.
This is exactly what I've been saying for months. You're not starting to lose it. You're finally starting to get it.

As for the Road to... names, in New Japan, if they are doing Shibata vs. Tanahashi at the PPV, they have them in the same match on ever show and do some stuff together. In ROH it often feels like the matches have very little connection to the PPV. It's just matches for the sake of matches. Also, if they were all "Road to" shows I wouldn't be happy about the new naming convention but I could accept it. Most of the tour names ROH uses bother me because they make no sense and because, the timing of them makes no sense (why do some of them stretch around the PPVs while the others don't? Would it make things a lot easier to keep track of if they just ran from one big event until the next?)
Yes, and NJPW's Road to Shows are totally irrelevant to the product, they are just house shows. I love the fact that ROH still treats these other shows as important (meaning, giving them new fresh match-ups, rather than a bunch of house show multimen tag matches). Yes, I agree the individual names were better, but let's also give ROH credit for still booking these Road to Shows as stand alone shows that are still worth watching.
Matches like BC vs Guns, Lethal & Addiction vs Briscoe War Machine, Daniels vs Rowe, Kaz vs Hanson, Addiction vs War Machine prove that your initial statement is not true either, they do book enough matches on these shows that are embedded in a feud/storyline.
"If anyone complains about how today's pro wrestling isn't as good as the past and isn't watching New Japan, their opinions have no validity." ~ Dave Meltzer
Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

JigsawVs.Jason wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
187_Joeism wrote:Maybe I'm starting to lose it but i agree with BRM in both points if that's your problem with ROH i can't see way they can't do that. I prefer the point 1 over the 2 as a way to use the house shows but i don't agree that the house shows itself should have any importance other than follow the TV/PPV.

The shows name i can't honestly care less, i watch wrestling for the matches, if a show has a good card i will buy it. Having their own name or being a Road to show means nothing to me, maybe is because i watch New Japan and they do it that way too.
This is exactly what I've been saying for months. You're not starting to lose it. You're finally starting to get it.

As for the Road to... names, in New Japan, if they are doing Shibata vs. Tanahashi at the PPV, they have them in the same match on ever show and do some stuff together. In ROH it often feels like the matches have very little connection to the PPV. It's just matches for the sake of matches. Also, if they were all "Road to" shows I wouldn't be happy about the new naming convention but I could accept it. Most of the tour names ROH uses bother me because they make no sense and because, the timing of them makes no sense (why do some of them stretch around the PPVs while the others don't? Would it make things a lot easier to keep track of if they just ran from one big event until the next?)
Yes, and NJPW's Road to Shows are totally irrelevant to the product, they are just house shows. I love the fact that ROH still treats these other shows as important (meaning, giving them new fresh match-ups, rather than a bunch of house show multimen tag matches). Yes, I agree the individual names were better, but let's also give ROH credit for still booking these Road to Shows as stand alone shows that are still worth watching.
Matches like BC vs Guns, Lethal & Addiction vs Briscoe War Machine, Daniels vs Rowe, Kaz vs Hanson, Addiction vs War Machine prove that your initial statement is not true either, they do book enough matches on these shows that are embedded in a feud/storyline.
It's not that the matches "embedded," as you pretty much perfectly put it, in a feud or a storyline. New Japan's Road to... shows do the same. The issue is that the results of those matches rarely matter. They are based in a feud or storyline, but rarely matter to that feud or storyline. A perfect example of this would be absolutely everything that has happened with Addiction vs. MCMG. How many times have they faced off... and yet nothing that has happened in any of those matches (or after them) has mattered? They have not actually built or played into any sort of narrative. The singles matches between Addiction and War Machine on 6/4 will be the exact same.
I'm not saying it's not okay to occasionally have a match that doesn't really do much for a storyline like some sort of big, multi-person tag match either just because it'd be a really cool match (the Champions vs. Bullet Club match on 1/23) or something that is based in a storyline but the results really don't matter too much (Bullet Club vs. House of Truth from SOTF Night 1) but I think it happens WAY too often in ROH where they just do a match in a feud for the sake of doing a match in that feud but it doesn't matter to anything at all in any way.
LJimmy
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by LJimmy »

I guess it's safe to say that the price for Moose and others in wrestling has gone up today.
JTCole
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by JTCole »

LJimmy wrote:I guess it's safe to say that the price for Moose and others in wrestling has gone up today.
Meltzer says WWE is about to aggressively go after Japanese and Mexican talent in conjunction with the Brand Split 2.0.

Wonder if any NJPW guys will take up offers.
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DXvsNWO1994
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by DXvsNWO1994 »

@MLW 3h3 hours ago
Ring of Honor has contracts expiring starting in June and then another wave in December. Great timing for talent and WWE.
@MLW 2h2 hours ago
The first wave of ROH contracts that are up in June will be: Moose and Roderick Strong.
So Moose & Strong....we kind of new about those two already.

As far as December goes, is there anyone else besides The Young Bucks & possibly Adam Cole (conflicting reports on him say either December 2016 or April 2017) that fit into that December timeframe?
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ROHfan2002
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by ROHfan2002 »

Don't usually comment on threads when it's really just a matter of opinion, such as the ongoing "ROH sucks/ROH doesn't suck" arguments that have gone on for awhile here. But I would like to toss my two cents into this thread because I have a strong view.

Starting with the Black Friday (through December) sale last year, I got into Evolve, purchasing the events beginning with the chapter two shows (31, 32, 33). Off and on, I continued to buy old shows, while also getting the live events in 2016. At the same time, I am an ROH fan since show one, and have been a Ringside Member for almost 18 months now, never missing ROH TV and ordering every PPV/iPPV since Death Before Dishonor last July.

After the last round of Evolve shows (60 & 61 I think), I realized that I just wasn't enjoying them much. I loved everything from 31 up to end of 2015 from Evolve, but whenever I watched this year, it didn't do much. There was always very good matches, and some excellent (ZSJ, Marty Scrull, Osprey) matches, but overall when it was over, I felt like had I not watched it, it wouldn't have bothered me much. The lack of Thatcher has also hurt a lot, as he is my favorite in Evolve but has only had four defenses this year. I can't complain about match quality, but something is just not there for me in 2016 Evolve. I also don't like that the focal point has been more "we have a deal with WWE that is changing things up" than anything else. Thatcher v. Catch Point/Galloway v. Gargano/Hero v. Sabre should be the focal point, but it seems like the thing they push most is "WWE cruiserweight classic" and the WWE relationship. Hell, the main feud right now is two TNA guys hating on WWE to the Evolve guys, who seem to be fighting more for the honor of WWE than Evolve. It's just bad. Thatcher leaving the belt and wanting to beat everybody in Catch Point before feeling like he is champion is decent, but since he so rarely wrestles lately, it would take five shows to beat all of Catch Point. That's three months of shows, and he isn't even scheduled against them in June. So will that end ever?

IN general, it's great matches but not much else, with a whole lot of pushing this WWE relationship over the actual Evolve promotion. If I'm paying for Evolve, I want to see athletes competing in Evolve because they feel Evolve is the absolute best. Not because they want to get into a cruiserweight tournament that will probably be great, but also probably be forgotten by WWE by Night of Champions. Evolve has become the minor league to NXT, which is the developmental to WWE. Hard to muster up spending money on what has become, in many ways, the third tier of WWE now.

I've put that money that would have gone to Evolve in June, JUly and August into starting to purchase the ROH live event VOD's. Watched the first two of 2016, and have really enjoyed both. Giving up Evolve, for me, has been very easy as now I'm seeing the ROH live events, which to me are more enjoyable.

NOw, I can see the arguments about ROH booking, but even considering that, ROH is still my favorite wrestling promotion right now. I am not big on the whole Bullet Club blowjob fest, but still have never felt disappointed purchasing an ROH PPV, or the VOD's so far.

The business model for ROH and Evolve are vastly different. ROH is a TV company putting out TV shows and PPV events. They need to tie talent down. Evolve does not have that need, so it's probably a lot easier to get wrestlers in for two shows a month. the WWE relationship also helps them there, because most indy guys want to get to WWE, and will pick Evolve over ROH right now. I'm okay with that, because I prefer ROH to be it's own company, and not the NXT feeder promotion.

I have no problem with the ROH seminar method of finding talent. I don't see it as ROH ripping wrestlers off. You are paying for the opportunity to get a ROH contract. There is no guarantee there, and you know this going in.

ROH could be better in many ways, but it is still my favorite, and I pick it over Evolve. But that's just me.
Fawrules
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Fawrules »

JTCole wrote:
LJimmy wrote:I guess it's safe to say that the price for Moose and others in wrestling has gone up today.
Meltzer says WWE is about to aggressively go after Japanese and Mexican talent in conjunction with the Brand Split 2.0.

Wonder if any NJPW guys will take up offers.
As if the talent hoarding hasn't been rampant enough over the last year or so. Good for the talent that get's signed/paid, from a selfish point of view, bad for the fans looking for viable alternatives.
Fawrules
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Fawrules »

Fawrules wrote:
JTCole wrote:
LJimmy wrote:I guess it's safe to say that the price for Moose and others in wrestling has gone up today.
Meltzer says WWE is about to aggressively go after Japanese and Mexican talent in conjunction with the Brand Split 2.0.

Wonder if any NJPW guys will take up offers.
As if the talent hoarding hasn't been rampant enough over the last year or so. Good for the talent that get's signed/paid, from a selfish point of view, bad for the fans looking for viable alternatives. Not like they already had an entire roster full of amazing talent that they don't know how to use to their fullest potential or anything before coming up with the idea that another Brand Split would be their saving grace.
Mike Adamle
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Mike Adamle »

Anyone else think Nigel McGuinness not doing anything to the Bullet Club for ruining the PPV main event is gonna result in him joining Bullet Club??
BlackLesnar wrote:Seriously though, I completely agree with Mike.
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Mike Adamle wrote:Should've named this show "Masters of the Roll Up"
This is the best post ever by Adamle. I laughed my ass off at this.
Big Red Machine
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mike Adamle wrote:Anyone else think Nigel McGuinness not doing anything to the Bullet Club for ruining the PPV main event is gonna result in him joining Bullet Club??
I have had this thought, but I'm almost certain they won't be stupid enough to this.
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by STITCHES »

Bullet Club didn't ruin the main event. Bullet Club MADE the main event.
stevenkmason
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by stevenkmason »

STITCHES wrote:Bullet Club didn't ruin the main event. Bullet Club MADE the main event.
Kayfabe bro
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DXvsNWO1994
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by DXvsNWO1994 »

In a totally random note, this match is happening in Alpha-1....

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BurningHammer
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

DXvsNWO1994 wrote:In a totally random note, this match is happening in Alpha-1....

Image
I don't follow A1 hugely but have they used a lot of ROH talents after Page was given the cold shoulder by ROH.

Does it possibly mean a thawing of the relationship between ROH and page?, if there ever has been bad blood.
monster mafia
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Re: Random ROH Thoughts Thread

Post by monster mafia »

BJ Whitmer post a photo of him with the corino baby and roh say that deleted the tweet..

so weird...

@BJ_Whitmer let's remove that last tweet

Steve Corino ‏@KINGCorino
Okay, now we've gone too far. @ringofhonor , Joe, Gary, or whoever, take this down. Not cool.
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