Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[Sardonic Artery]

Whoops. Haven'ee been here in a while. So, recap:

Joe Hendry is amusing, but sadly, his entrances are the best part of his act.

So Daniels becomes a creative guy and he and Kazarian win the straps? I'm sure y'all love that.

Strong leaving is sadface. I was down on him for a while, but he's been great everywhere over the last year. Alexander leaving is fine; dude plateaued a long time ago. Moose can stay gone, but he's the kind of huge that's an even bigger problem in the indies. How do you keep a guy this big away from a title when he should be killing everyone... even though he's just okay (love that top rope back flip, mind you)... and you don't want to book him weakly and that's worse? Still hope Jason Kincaid comes to ROH full time.

Can't say I'm much for Women of Honor. I get that they've got more pull than ever thanks to the E having a decent women's division (that's still marred by Diva booking), but I haven't enjoyed what I've seen. Delirious and Mandy Leon jokes still seem awkward and expected.

Bullet Club is an issue. If you book them weakly, people are mad. You turn them face, it might as well be the decline of the NWO (which will happen eventually anyway after a long enough period and they start adding guys like Cheeseburger to "fill out" the stable). You book them as is and your faces struggle (which they do on the indies anyway). Overall, a good problem to have though.

[BurningHammer]

I managed to catch Dearborn last night, overall it was a good to very good show (I guess depending on your liking of ROH at the moment). Most of the matches delivered quality wise bar one and even the angles for me worked overall, one that I surprised me the most was the Tag Team title switch. It actually ended up making sense at least on the night, they did a good job of selling the idea that it was maybe one step to far especially through Rowe who, I felt anyway, did a good job of selling the idea. A special mention goes to Moose and Ishi who had a great match and one that seemed to show that Moose is really starting to get his timing, general movement and reality of his offense to a much better level.

I realise that Delirious has had some stick and rightfully so, there is one thing that I feel Delirious has done well with over the last couple of years has been pacing. Throughout the years of watching ROH no matter how good the show was I always felt that come the end of show or come the main event I felt shattered or needed a breather, now for the most part I feel I have enough energy to enjoy the main event or come away from the show not needing a lie down and that to me is a good thing.

[JTCole]

This is only tangentially related to ROH but watching No Way Jose cut a promo yesterday and his deliver is a bit like Mark Briscoe.

I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

[JTCole]

Haha, pay attention to the fans shirt

http://notrealtalk.tumblr.com/post/1441 ... mr-mcmahon

[dhads7161]

I could actually see Dalton Castle as a heel.

[JTCole]

Talked to Moose last night at a Georgia indy show, he didn't confirm where he was going after his ROH deal is done next month but he did say his last ROH match will be at BitW and he heavily hinted at signing with WWE.

Could have been purposely trolling me but it didn't seem like it.

[WHG]

Moose leaving isn't a loss. He's improved greatly and owes a lot to ROH for putting him in a position to improve and grow...but he's still clunky and out of place.

[JTCole]

If Moose can't improve in the PC he's a lost cause.

[Memphis Mark]

I am beginning to think ROH should stop their training camps. I tried to give ROH the benefit of the doubt , but it does appear the camp are just another profit center a.k.a. money grab . I really is just not right to take money from trainees that will never have any shot of making it the wrestling business. Also the camps have given ROH fans the likes of Cheeseburger , Will Ferrarra , Jay Diesel and Tim Hughes, who are not ROH material.

If , the ROH offices need to new talent just scout the indies . It not hard , just watch You Tube, and watch the SMV/ Highspots promotions. Just invite the top talent from that pool to try out for ROH . ROH needs to sign the top talent from outside the WWE . From bell to bell the ROH fans should get quality matches.

[ROHFan25]

I am beginning to think ROH should stop their training camps. I tried to give ROH the benefit of the doubt , but it does appear the camp are just another profit center a.k.a. money grab . I really is just not right to take money from trainees that will never have any shot of making it the wrestling business. Also the camps have given ROH fans the likes of Cheeseburger , Will Ferrarra , Jay Diesel and Tim Hughes, who are not ROH material.

If , the ROH offices need to new talent just scout the indies . It not hard , just watch You Tube, and watch the SMV/ Highspots promotions. Just invite the top talent from that pool to try out for ROH . ROH needs to sign the top talent from outside the WWE . From bell to bell the ROH fans should get quality matches.

Dude, you're absolutely crazy if you think Delirious and/or Kevin Kelly have any clue on who the guys with buzz on the indies are right now. The camps are convenient for them, and it's a very easy way to make money. It's a good business move for ROH but it's a big reason why ROH has fallen off the map in terms of quality. When someone leaves they don't replenish the roster with top indy talent anymore.

What's more upsetting is you look at EVOLVEs roster and they have Hero, Sabre Jr, Williams, Riddle, Gulak, Yehi, TJP, Ricochet, etc.

[187_Joeism]

For every Will Ferrarra or Jay Diesel you can list a Dalton Castle, Donovan Dijak, etc. Most of the roster come out of the try outs and is a quality roster, i don´t think you can say otherwise.

I would like to see ROH using more independent talent without the need of going to the try outs but i don´t think that will happen in the future, is not something with the booker, the company does not operate that way anymore.

Of the list that ROHFan25 put Riddle, Gulak & Yehi went to the try out and i´m not sure but i think Tracy Williams too, so is more a problem of choosing the talent from there than a problem of talent not going to them.

[Big Red Machine]

I am beginning to think ROH should stop their training camps. I tried to give ROH the benefit of the doubt , but it does appear the camp are just another profit center a.k.a. money grab . I really is just not right to take money from trainees that will never have any shot of making it the wrestling business. Also the camps have given ROH fans the likes of Cheeseburger , Will Ferrarra , Jay Diesel and Tim Hughes, who are not ROH material.

If , the ROH offices need to new talent just scout the indies . It not hard , just watch You Tube, and watch the SMV/ Highspots promotions. Just invite the top talent from that pool to try out for ROH . ROH needs to sign the top talent from outside the WWE . From bell to bell the ROH fans should get quality matches.

Dude, you're absolutely crazy if you think Delirious and/or Kevin Kelly have any clue on who the guys with buzz on the indies are right now. The camps are convenient for them, and it's a very easy way to make money. It's a good business move for ROH but it's a big reason why ROH has fallen off the map in terms of quality. When someone leaves they don't replenish the roster with top indy talent anymore.

What's more upsetting is you look at EVOLVEs roster and they have Hero, Sabre Jr, Williams, Riddle, Gulak, Yehi, TJP, Ricochet, etc.

Well... they don't really have Ricochet, and the only reason they got Riddle was because of WWE. I agree in principle, but not with those two specific examples.
It's also possible that part of the reason people have chosen to go to EVOLVE recently (Yehi in particular) is because of how ROH has used (or rather, misused) other recent indy talents with buzz who have chosen ROH over the other options (ACH and Cedric in particular, but Page to a lesser extent as well). It's a vicious cycle that was only made worse by WWE trying to direct people to go to EVOLVE instead of ROH.

[ROHFan25]

I was just trying to point out how stacked that the EVOLVE roster is because their goal is to get the best available talent for their promotion whereas ROH wants to get both great talent (Young Bucks, Cole, reDrago, etc) and also take advantage of people trying to break into the business and charge them money in order for them to work ring crew/dark matches.

[187_Joeism]

EVOLVE is small enough that they can use people without having to be worried with politics, ROH can´t do that, they can´t use Ricochet or Galloway if they want because of the TV contracts.

I´m not defending them here because i think they let pass some great talent in the try outs like Busick ffs but you can´t compare EVOLVE with ROH same way with PWG with ROH because one is a big company and has TV and the other don´t.

It´s easier to book talent when you have a small company than when you have a big company.

[ROHFan25]

Almost positive I read that LU didn't care if Ricochet worked on TV as Ricochet elsewhere other than WWE because then he clearly couldn't work LU.

But Ricochet is just one guy. Like you said they've let a ton of great talent pass them by, and don't even give guys looks unless they attend the camps which is entirely stupid IMO. If a guy is a great wrestler and you know he can help your product, you're not going to sign him because he won't attend a tryout camp? Very dumb.

[187_Joeism]

They use talent if they have a name, for example ZSJ or Hero is don´t need to go to the camps, they do that with lower guys and even if i don´t agree with that 100% i can see why they do that. EVOLVE is doing that now too, WWE does that too.

Problem is more about talent selection than the camps i think. You can stop the camps and they will be bringing the same type of wrestlers, they are not going to bring top indy names all of the sudden.

[Big Red Machine]

EVOLVE is small enough that they can use people without having to be worried with politics, ROH can´t do that, they can´t use Ricochet or Galloway if they want because of the TV contracts.

I´m not defending them here because i think they let pass some great talent in the try outs like Busick ffs but you can´t compare EVOLVE with ROH same way with PWG with ROH because one is a big company and has TV and the other don´t.

It´s easier to book talent when you have a small company than when you have a big company.

I could be wrong, but that doesn't have to do with EVOLVE's size so much as it has to do with the exclusivity of the contracts the talent signed New Japan/LU/TNA whoever. The fact that they don't have TV means they won't be on the obvious list of places not to work, but I'm pretty sure that some TNA talent do have pretty exclusive contracts (or at least did at one point recently). I don't think that James Storm (for example) is free to work EVOLVE.

[187_Joeism]

I´m sure EC3 has some type of exclusive TNA contract but if you don´t run enough shows and you don´t pay talent you can stop them for wrestling in the indies in the non TV companies. I´m sure James Storm is the same case, he wrestles in some small indies too.

[BurningHammer]

EVOLVE is small enough that they can use people without having to be worried with politics, ROH can´t do that, they can´t use Ricochet or Galloway if they want because of the TV contracts.

I´m not defending them here because i think they let pass some great talent in the try outs like Busick ffs but you can´t compare EVOLVE with ROH same way with PWG with ROH because one is a big company and has TV and the other don´t.

It´s easier to book talent when you have a small company than when you have a big company.

I could be wrong, but that doesn't have to do with EVOLVE's size so much as it has to do with the exclusivity of the contracts the talent signed New Japan/LU/TNA whoever. The fact that they don't have TV means they won't be on the obvious list of places not to work, but I'm pretty sure that some TNA talent do have pretty exclusive contracts (or at least did at one point recently). I don't think that James Storm (for example) is free to work EVOLVE.

Evolve certainly has the best of both worlds really when it comes to having talent available to them especially now NXT has some involvement.

With regards to the training camps I do think we should see more guys signed and used considering the quality that has supposedly been through them and still goes through them. Just to say with Gulack it may have come down to mic skills especially for a TV segment although having someone like Diesel contradicts that.

If there is going to a new title introduced I would have an ode to the old ROH and have a tournament with people from around the world brought in and that's when maybe if they are available introduce the likes of ZSJ or others in permanent roles.

[Thelone]

I would assume that the shows weren't profitable, even with a basic crew and setup. Hell, they probably sold well below a thousand of those each and the second one came out months later because the hardcam was out of focus the whole time.

There's this show from a few months back with a whole bunch of familiar names, but that could mean absolutely nothing.

And here's another one from this past weekend with a similar lineup.