Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[jordidebaas]

Bringing Angle in would be a huge mistake. In fact, while I was on board with ROH bringing in AJ, Joe, Kaz & Daniels, etc... the company really needs to focus on youth and up and coming stars again. Cabana was a great moment (which they kind of blew with the non-finish), but for all of the complaints about the booking the one that resonates with me isn't the reliance on New Japan...it's the age of the stars. Like WCW in the late 90s, everything is built on a bunch of guys we loved a decade ago and not enough on the next generation.

I definitely agree with that, except that bringing in Angle for one or two dream matches where he does the job and leaves, or maybe one short program to put someone over, like they for example did with Lance Storm and Micheal Bennett, would help a lot in building said up and comers, so if he's willing to that, they should definitely bring him in I think

[187_Joeism]

@TheProseofCon
@fakekinkade you gonna be in Indianapolis in June?

Alex Shelley @fakekinkade
@TheProseofCon Mhm. I will be at almost all @ringofhonor shows. Truth be told, I signed a contract months ago. Super big bidding war.

[Big Red Machine]

Bringing Angle in would be a huge mistake. In fact, while I was on board with ROH bringing in AJ, Joe, Kaz & Daniels, etc... the company really needs to focus on youth and up and coming stars again. Cabana was a great moment (which they kind of blew with the non-finish), but for all of the complaints about the booking the one that resonates with me isn't the reliance on New Japan...it's the age of the stars. Like WCW in the late 90s, everything is built on a bunch of guys we loved a decade ago and not enough on the next generation.

I definitely agree with that, except that bringing in Angle for one or two dream matches where he does the job and leaves, or maybe one short program to put someone over, like they for example did with Lance Storm and Micheal Bennett, would help a lot in building said up and comers, so if he's willing to that, they should definitely bring him in I think

My thoughts exactly.

[Burnside]

This kinda epitomizes my problems with this promotion right now.

This is from Kevin Kelly's little blog on the ROH website. This blog clearly aspires to be Jim Ross's old Ross Report from the WWF site in the late 90s-early 00s, except that would usually have one or two interesting notes every week and Kelly's is vapid and devoid of substance. This week he does a run-down of last Sunday's PPV and we get this:

Perfect choice for Adam Cole and Bullet Club to come together as one and they look to break every record possible in ROH. Bullet Club isn’t looking to “take over” or destroy ROH like S.C.U.M tried to do a few years ago. I think part of their mission is they want to frustrate everyone who said they don’t belong on top of the industry. When Cole, the Young Bucks and the Guerrillas of Destiny climbed the barricade and hit the merchandise stand, they sold record numbers of “Bullet Club” t-shirts to the fans on their way out. “Bullet Club” also wants to claim the ROH World Championship and Adam Cole did a number on Jay Lethal in “Bullet Club’s” Global Wars closing ceremonies.

Now, I saw this PPV and this angle. On the show, the Young Bucks kicked Kevin Kelly in the back of the head and knocked him unconscious. They ruined the main event of a world title match on PPV. They beat up Colt Cabana in Chicago. They superkicked their own father. I'm pretty sure the Bullet Club, based on that, are heels.

Why is Kelly babyfacing them here? Are they babyfaces now? What the fuck is this?

I saw these people kick Kevin Kelly in the back of the head and knock him unconscious. What is the explanation for this bizarre disconnect in storytelling? How hard is it to keep on-message and have a consistent vision and tone?

[famicommander]

I would absolutely love to see a Kurt Angle/Dalton Castle feud for the TV Title. Kurt Angle can still work and is a big name. As long as they don't actually sign him to a long(ish) term contract it'd be a great move to bring him in.

Have Castle win the title from Fish, have a few successful defenses, and then have Angle show up and challenge him. Angle wins the belt, then Castle goes over big at Final Battle to win it back.

It would raise the prestige of the belt and make Castle look really good. Then Kurt can go back to drunk twitter posts or WWE/TNA.

[Wilson]

ROH is so thoroughly disappointing in telling stories, delivering exposition, and maintaining appropriate moods for their programs.

That write-up by Kelly is truly untenable. I’m not what the more unappealing prospect is: that Kevin Kelly—in character or otherwise—misinterpreted the entire angle (thus making him an unreliable babyface narrator) or that ROH is now backpedaling on their angle.

One shouldn’t be disagreeing on fundamental levels with their most reasonable/authoritative voice. It’s not OK.

[Thelone]

This angle screams "last minute change", so no wonder they just don't know what the fuck they're doing at this point.

[Wilson]

Having just read the full column, I reacted too heavily. It is just a vapid article with (extremely) select impressions from Global Wars.

Everybody on the show was exciting! The deepest roster! What an athlete! Boy, that Bobby Fish! Bullet Club sure is popular, right? And thanks for those in in Toronto’s bathroom queue—you have no idea of my gratitude for being allowed an expedited route! I’m putting everybody over! How’s my earnestness?

As a non-story, promotional column, it is not worth any value other than as grist for the satirist’s mill.

[jordidebaas]

I think they've never been more than that

[Burnside]

It's a nothing fluff column in a series of nothing fluff column, but even so - if the purpose of the column is just "here's the highlights from the show from my perspective", why completely change the tone of the biggest angle coming out of the night? Why leave out the part where the heels knocked you out and instead talk about how beloved they are?

I guess we'll wait a few weeks for some first-run content so we'll know how they intend to actually follow up.

[DXvsNWO1994]

This angle screams "last minute change", so no wonder they just don't know what the fuck they're doing at this point.

I recall someone had made mention (forget exactly where. Maybe a recent VOD Podcast?) that they heard that the finish of the Main Event changed numerous times before the show started, which makes it sound like a usual episode of RAW (in terms of the number of rewrites before showtime).

[Wilson]

It's a nothing fluff column in a series of nothing fluff column, but even so - if the purpose of the column is just "here's the highlights from the show from my perspective", why completely change the tone of the biggest angle coming out of the night? Why leave out the part where the heels knocked you out and instead talk about how beloved they are?

I guess we'll wait a few weeks for some first-run content so we'll know how they intend to actually follow up.

Right, we’ll be more certain when they air more content, but it seems safe to assume that Kelly was just being an airhead while trying to gin up excitement.

But having reservations on ROH’s direction with Cole and the Bullet Club is not misplaced. I have next to no idea why Cole isn’t being advertised as the main event contender to the title at BITW. Their terrible angle showed that people are at least still interested in him as one of the promotion’s main players; everything about Lethal vs. Briscoe strikes me as non-intuitive. At the moment, it does feel like ROH is choosing to conceal something about the Bullet Club.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Look who just signed a new contract....

@realBobbyCruise 3h3 hours ago
Happily signing my new @ringofhonor contract. 12 years & going strong with the best wrestling on the planet.

Yeah....

[Big Red Machine]

Look who just signed a new contract....

@realBobbyCruise 3h3 hours ago
Happily signing my new @ringofhonor contract. 12 years & going strong with the best wrestling on the planet.

Yeah....

Do I detect a hint of disdain for Bobby Cruise of all people? Shame on you, sir!


Seriously, though, Bobby is the best ring announcer they have so I am quite happy to hear that he will be sticking around.

[FanSinceHDNet]

Look who just signed a new contract....

@realBobbyCruise 3h3 hours ago
Happily signing my new @ringofhonor contract. 12 years & going strong with the best wrestling on the planet.

Yeah....

Do I detect a hint of disdain for Bobby Cruise of all people? Shame on you, sir!


Seriously, though, Bobby is the best ring announcer they have so I am quite happy to hear that he will be sticking around.

I am usually 50/50 agreeing with BRM but I agree 10000% here. He adds a lot to the product and you can tell when others are in the role that aren't Bobby.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

This kinda epitomizes my problems with this promotion right now.

This is from Kevin Kelly's little blog on the ROH website. This blog clearly aspires to be Jim Ross's old Ross Report from the WWF site in the late 90s-early 00s, except that would usually have one or two interesting notes every week and Kelly's is vapid and devoid of substance. This week he does a run-down of last Sunday's PPV and we get this:

Perfect choice for Adam Cole and Bullet Club to come together as one and they look to break every record possible in ROH. Bullet Club isn’t looking to “take over” or destroy ROH like S.C.U.M tried to do a few years ago. I think part of their mission is they want to frustrate everyone who said they don’t belong on top of the industry. When Cole, the Young Bucks and the Guerrillas of Destiny climbed the barricade and hit the merchandise stand, they sold record numbers of “Bullet Club” t-shirts to the fans on their way out. “Bullet Club” also wants to claim the ROH World Championship and Adam Cole did a number on Jay Lethal in “Bullet Club’s” Global Wars closing ceremonies.

Now, I saw this PPV and this angle. On the show, the Young Bucks kicked Kevin Kelly in the back of the head and knocked him unconscious. They ruined the main event of a world title match on PPV. They beat up Colt Cabana in Chicago. They superkicked their own father. I'm pretty sure the Bullet Club, based on that, are heels.

Why is Kelly babyfacing them here? Are they babyfaces now? What the fuck is this?

I saw these people kick Kevin Kelly in the back of the head and knock him unconscious. What is the explanation for this bizarre disconnect in storytelling? How hard is it to keep on-message and have a consistent vision and tone?

Yes this is total Kelly idiocy. I also think it's strange that he's saying Bullet Club aren't trying to take over. Isn't that exactly what they do in Japan? Win everything and run everything? Wasn't that the whole tone of Cole's promo? They aren't trying to destroy ROH, but short of that they're totally "taking over."

Also, the line about them frustrating everyone who said they can't make it to the top...pretty much everyone has said for years Cole is making it to the top. It's general assumption that the The Young Bucks have been on top for a while now, plus both have held their top respective titles so they can't really go up anymore than they've already been. And no one talks about the Guerrillas of Desitny in general so that doesn't count.

Really though, I hope this is just Kelly being Kelly and not ROH backpedaling. Yeah, I think the finish to the PPV was far from ideal, but I think the angle as a whole is the right way to go. It at least has heat. Kelly's assessment makes it sound like more random matches with no heat, which is the last thing we need.

[Big Red Machine]

This kinda epitomizes my problems with this promotion right now.

This is from Kevin Kelly's little blog on the ROH website. This blog clearly aspires to be Jim Ross's old Ross Report from the WWF site in the late 90s-early 00s, except that would usually have one or two interesting notes every week and Kelly's is vapid and devoid of substance. This week he does a run-down of last Sunday's PPV and we get this:

Perfect choice for Adam Cole and Bullet Club to come together as one and they look to break every record possible in ROH. Bullet Club isn’t looking to “take over” or destroy ROH like S.C.U.M tried to do a few years ago. I think part of their mission is they want to frustrate everyone who said they don’t belong on top of the industry. When Cole, the Young Bucks and the Guerrillas of Destiny climbed the barricade and hit the merchandise stand, they sold record numbers of “Bullet Club” t-shirts to the fans on their way out. “Bullet Club” also wants to claim the ROH World Championship and Adam Cole did a number on Jay Lethal in “Bullet Club’s” Global Wars closing ceremonies.

Now, I saw this PPV and this angle. On the show, the Young Bucks kicked Kevin Kelly in the back of the head and knocked him unconscious. They ruined the main event of a world title match on PPV. They beat up Colt Cabana in Chicago. They superkicked their own father. I'm pretty sure the Bullet Club, based on that, are heels.

Why is Kelly babyfacing them here? Are they babyfaces now? What the fuck is this?

I saw these people kick Kevin Kelly in the back of the head and knock him unconscious. What is the explanation for this bizarre disconnect in storytelling? How hard is it to keep on-message and have a consistent vision and tone?

Yes this is total Kelly idiocy. I also think it's strange that he's saying Bullet Club aren't trying to take over. Isn't that exactly what they do in Japan? Win everything and run everything? Wasn't that the whole tone of Cole's promo? They aren't trying to destroy ROH, but short of that they're totally "taking over."

Also, the line about them frustrating everyone who said they can't make it to the top...pretty much everyone has said for years Cole is making it to the top. It's general assumption that the The Young Bucks have been on top for a while now, plus both have held their top respective titles so they can't really go up anymore than they've already been. And no one talks about the Guerrillas of Desitny in general so that doesn't count.

Really though, I hope this is just Kelly being Kelly and not ROH backpedaling. Yeah, I think the finish to the PPV was far from ideal, but I think the angle as a whole is the right way to go. It at least has heat. Kelly's assessment makes it sound like more random matches with no heat, which is the last thing we need.

Heat? All I saw on the PPV was fans cheering for Bullet Club.

Assuming this is just Kevin Kelly being a moron, then it is a problem that it made it onto the website in the first place.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

I should have clarified. Not like heel heat, but storyline heat. I meant more that there's a heated issue now between Bullet Club and ROH, because they violently attacked refs, announcers, security, etc. There's a heated issue between Bullet Club and Lethal because they repeatedly superkicked his unconscious body and Cole's coming for his title. There's a heated issue between Bullet Club and Cabana because they ruined his chance at capturing the World Title.

No matter what they do people are going to cheer Bullet Club, but that doesn't mean ROH can't build up some real personal feuds and animosity between the wrestlers to actually create some matches with a feeling of importance.
Just like plenty of people cheered heel Adam Cole BayBay during his feud with Briscoe, but there was still a heated rivalry and good substance to that feud.

[Burnside]

If the universal consensus is "the Bullet Club is going to be wildly cheered no matter what", then I still don't understand why they're positioned as heels in the first place.

Just like the NWO and heel Steen, 90% of the babyfaces they're up against are effectively going to have their balls cut off.

People like Motor City Machine Guns, War Machine, Kyle O'Reillly, etc are already struggling to get over in their roles. Put them against the Bucks and Cole and they're dead in the water.

[monster mafia]

According to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, Cedric Alexander finished up with Ring of Honor on May 14th. He had been working without a contract, and the feeling for some time was that he wouldn’t be signing back with them. He had a WWE tryout and the word making the rounds had been that he is going to be part of the Cruiserweight Classic. Once his dates with Evolve were announced, everyone knew that he wouldn’t be back with ROH. ROH doesn’t want talent working for Evolve, even if they aren’t under contract with them. Lio Rush, who is under an ROH deal, got to work Evolve recently but that was a case of him allowing to keep his dates that he agreed to prior to signing his ROH deal.