The State of ROH: 2015 & Beyond

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

Big name part timers are great, but they need to use the better. They often have the best matches on the show and draw really well for attendence/views, as evidenced by a year and a half of really great attendance numbers. But when you have your "next world champ" prospects losing to the part timers on every show it hurts in the long run. Your full time roster loses credibility, and you can't put your belts on part time special attractions. Obviously there are politics with other organizations so, they're somewhat limited on what they can do.

As far as the roster, I think ROH is on the right track. They currently have a balanced mix of bringing in well known names (Sydal, Addiction, Baretta, etc) and also building newer stars (Castle, Ferrara, Dijak, etc). Building your own stars is certainly as valuable in a long term plan as is bringing in known names. My only wish was that when they bring in people like Josh Alexander, Dickinson, etc. they don't always start them at the bottom but make a couple of them top contenders right off the bat if they have the right buzz about them.

Signing people to exclusive contracts is a nice insurance policy to help mitigate roster losses. Obviously they can't sign everyone, but it's the right idea. There's plenty of talent on the indies right now that they'll be perfectly fine if they're willing to sign people with an established fan base. I don't necessarily mean guys like Ricochet, Gargano, etc. but at least more regional wrestlers who still have good buzz and recognition like some of the guys in 2CW, FWE, CZW, AAW, etc.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

Big name part timers are great, but they need to use the better. They often have the best matches on the show and draw really well for attendence/views, as evidenced by a year and a half of really great attendance numbers. But when you have your "next world champ" prospects losing to the part timers on every show it hurts in the long run. Your full time roster loses credibility, and you can't put your belts on part time special attractions. Obviously there are politics with other organizations so, they're somewhat limited on what they can do.

As far as the roster, I think ROH is on the right track. They currently have a balanced mix of bringing in well known names (Sydal, Addiction, Baretta, etc) and also building newer stars (Castle, Ferrara, Dijak, etc). Building your own stars is certainly as valuable in a long term plan as is bringing in known names. My only wish was that when they bring in people like Josh Alexander, Dickinson, etc. they don't always start them at the bottom but make a couple of them top contenders right off the bat if they have the right buzz about them.

Signing people to exclusive contracts is a nice insurance policy to help mitigate roster losses. Obviously they can't sign everyone, but it's the right idea. There's plenty of talent on the indies right now that they'll be perfectly fine if they're willing to sign people with an established fan base. I don't necessarily mean guys like Ricochet, Gargano, etc. but at least more regional wrestlers who still have good buzz and recognition like some of the guys in 2CW, FWE, CZW, AAW, etc.

Agreed on most points, but Josh Alexander and Chris Dickinson faced Michael Elgin in their matches, which is not exactly starting at the bottom. Especially Alexander/Elgin was wrestled in a Main Event style and in my opinion is still one of the best matches of the, addmitedly, not so great year ROH is having, coming off an amazing year 2014.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

Agreed; I was more using them as a example of that level of guys that we've seen recently. And both have an extremely small sample size of matches. If either comes in full time, I kind of doubt at this point that we would see them in the main event scene right away even if they are wrestling premiere talent. There's a difference.

[SamoaNOAH]

Really great initial post.

I watched every single ROH event from 2004 to around 2011. The Final Countdown tour was for me also, I guess. After the big names left, guys like Richards and Edwards and Black kept putting on great matches, but that booking magic was long gone. Now, as you've pointed out, it's awful. Elgin's monster push was a car wreck. The biggest names are all from the outside and Tanahashi vs Bennett shows that this roster is without an ace. The next Aries is not on the roster. The next (and better) Jack Evans got grabbed by Dragon Gate. There may never be another Joe, Punk or Danielson because the indies have a new compelling option. NJPW is hands down the best promotion in the world, and NXT embodies the upside of pro wrestling for the cost of 1 ROH DVD every two months. Living in Boston, abandoned by ROH because Sinclair can't get TV in our market, I must say ... I don't miss you Ring of Honor.

The WWENetwork and New Japan World have given me what I had without spending thousands on DVDs. And while finding ROH was as pivotal for me as seeing AJPW via tape traders or watching Nitro instead of Raw or PWG from 3-4 yrs ago, it proves that I've always found the best wrestling regardless of which promotion I follow. ROH is not that promotion, and they won't be again anytime soon - if at all unless extreme changes are made to adjust to the new era of wrestling where the best matches are a stream away.

[Big Red Machine]

ROH's creative situation is baffling. There is a worrisome lack of narration tying events together, be it in character motivation, match booking, or direction in commentary.

Jay Briscoe has been undefeated for over two years (we're getting close to three),yet there are almost no competitors hot on his track. We have Jay Lethal making advances, but who else has been agitating the World Champ? You don't need to have a firm schedule to plan a Jay Briscoe/Kyle O'Reilly program, but you can sow tension months before they even need to enter a "real" feud. What about Hanson? He's a guy without character (and limited mic skills to boot) but we understand him enough that the language of him taking out Jay Briscoe, at any podunk event, without any instigation, would mean that he feels he is owed his due at the title. Even with simple,intuitive booking, we can make the tone of the shows hold more depth. A champion is only as rich as his gallery of competitors. Jay Briscoe, as incongruous as he is with some of the company's impressive technical champions, is among the greatest, most storied (at very least, in terms of tenure with the company) characters in ROH history. Even if he doesn't do the pretty Broadways of bygone champions, he can at least be relied on to drive any program he's given.

Back on Jay Lethal, while I think his reign has been a boon for the midcard, he has been booked inconsistently, especially on commentary. Only in his own mind should he be considered among the best in the world. Kevin Kelly, of all people, should not concede to Lethal's or Martini's illusions of success. Lethal made a Faustian deal to revive his career with Martini and should be berated by the face commentator at every instance. Why are we calling him the best champion on television if that is the case? That sort of objectivity should be reserved for faces. With Lethal's momentum riding as strong as it is, he must maintain heat if he is to reach the next platform of ROH's top heel.

As for the returning talent, has there been no greater crying shame than the booking of the returning alumni in ROH? The Decade's original manifesto came and went, further no other storylines were created for any of the returning roster. As of today, the only creative programs to come out of the 2014-2015 returns/fly-ins have been Elgin/Styles, Bucks/reDRagon (that's being generous as far as "story" goes), Bad Influence's very recent ultimatum, and Joe's path to championship reclamation. Although there are scheduling complications with fly-in talent and television tapings, there is no reason for these marquee names to sit in marquee exhibition after exhibition--keep doing that, and the talent no longer becomes "marquee."

I find it disheartening to sit four months removed from Final Battle to have the same champions with little to no new challengers made in the mean time. While we have Lethal inching his way in the World Title picture, the Tag Team and TV picture leave much to be desired. Too much for me to excitingly anticipate their successors.

I completely agree with all of this. It never feels like anyone is chasing any of the champs. Elgin didn't get pinned at the 13th Anniversary Show, and, in fact, hasn't gotten a one-on-one rematch since losing the belt. Shouldn't he be cutting promos saying he is owed a title shot? Or even having the announcers push that fact? Same for Hanson. he wasn't pinned either, and even knocked Jay out with his finisher. The whole finish seemed to designed to tell us that if Elgin hadn't pulled him out of the ring, Hanson would be the ROH World Champion right now. Why isn't anyone mentioned him as someone who deserves a title shot?

The tag titles have been booked almost into oblivion, and most of the reason they aren't there yet is because reDRagon has been so amazing in the ring. Both AJ and Roddy have beaten the both (former) tag champs in singles matches. Why the the hell didn't we get Roddy and AJ challenging reDRagon for the tag titles. That could easily be an MOTYC right there (and Roddy could eat the pin to protect AJ for New Japan).

One thing that needs to stop are these "instant reward" things or similar "you get your title shot the very same night" deals. Not only are they lazy booking, but they quickly burn through matches that could be great if they were built up a little bit. It's small little chases that can headline a B show that make a champion's title reign feel full and busy.

[DXvsNWO1994]

ROH's creative situation is baffling. There is a worrisome lack of narration tying events together, be it in character motivation, match booking, or direction in commentary.

Jay Briscoe has been undefeated for over two years (we're getting close to three),yet there are almost no competitors hot on his track. We have Jay Lethal making advances, but who else has been agitating the World Champ? You don't need to have a firm schedule to plan a Jay Briscoe/Kyle O'Reilly program, but you can sow tension months before they even need to enter a "real" feud. What about Hanson? He's a guy without character (and limited mic skills to boot) but we understand him enough that the language of him taking out Jay Briscoe, at any podunk event, without any instigation, would mean that he feels he is owed his due at the title. Even with simple,intuitive booking, we can make the tone of the shows hold more depth. A champion is only as rich as his gallery of competitors. Jay Briscoe, as incongruous as he is with some of the company's impressive technical champions, is among the greatest, most storied (at very least, in terms of tenure with the company) characters in ROH history. Even if he doesn't do the pretty Broadways of bygone champions, he can at least be relied on to drive any program he's given.

Back on Jay Lethal, while I think his reign has been a boon for the midcard, he has been booked inconsistently, especially on commentary. Only in his own mind should he be considered among the best in the world. Kevin Kelly, of all people, should not concede to Lethal's or Martini's illusions of success. Lethal made a Faustian deal to revive his career with Martini and should be berated by the face commentator at every instance. Why are we calling him the best champion on television if that is the case? That sort of objectivity should be reserved for faces. With Lethal's momentum riding as strong as it is, he must maintain heat if he is to reach the next platform of ROH's top heel.

As for the returning talent, has there been no greater crying shame than the booking of the returning alumni in ROH? The Decade's original manifesto came and went, further no other storylines were created for any of the returning roster. As of today, the only creative programs to come out of the 2014-2015 returns/fly-ins have been Elgin/Styles, Bucks/reDRagon (that's being generous as far as "story" goes), Bad Influence's very recent ultimatum, and Joe's path to championship reclamation. Although there are scheduling complications with fly-in talent and television tapings, there is no reason for these marquee names to sit in marquee exhibition after exhibition--keep doing that, and the talent no longer becomes "marquee."

I find it disheartening to sit four months removed from Final Battle to have the same champions with little to no new challengers made in the mean time. While we have Lethal inching his way in the World Title picture, the Tag Team and TV picture leave much to be desired. Too much for me to excitingly anticipate their successors.

I completely agree with all of this. It never feels like anyone is chasing any of the champs. Elgin didn't get pinned at the 13th Anniversary Show, and, in fact, hasn't gotten a one-on-one rematch since losing the belt. Shouldn't he be cutting promos saying he is owed a title shot? Or even having the announcers push that fact? Same for Hanson. he wasn't pinned either, and even knocked Jay out with his finisher. The whole finish seemed to designed to tell us that if Elgin hadn't pulled him out of the ring, Hanson would be the ROH World Champion right now. Why isn't anyone mentioned him as someone who deserves a title shot?

The tag titles have been booked almost into oblivion, and most of the reason they aren't there yet is because reDRagon has been so amazing in the ring. Both AJ and Roddy have beaten the both (former) tag champs in singles matches. Why the the hell didn't we get Roddy and AJ challenging reDRagon for the tag titles. That could easily be an MOTYC right there (and Roddy could eat the pin to protect AJ for New Japan).

One thing that needs to stop are these "instant reward" things or similar "you get your title shot the very same night" deals. Not only are they lazy booking, but they quickly burn through matches that could be great if they were built up a little bit. It's small little chases that can headline a B show that make a champion's title reign feel full and busy.

What's interesting about both of your comments regarding the World Title picture is that just last year, when Adam Cole was champion, he had a plethora of World Title Contenders lined up to face him. It was really one of the strengths of Adam Cole's title reign and a general positive in 2014. I mean, there were shows that ended with Cole being confronted by the likes of Jay Briscoe, Michael Elgin, Chris Hero & Kevin Steen all at once, and all of them had legitimate claims to challenge for the title.

I think part of the issue is that Jay Briscoe getting the title back was never really the plan to begin with (or at least that's how it was reported), both with Michael Elgin losing the title to Jay Briscoe due to all of the crazy stuff that went down with Elgin, and Adam Cole not getting the title back at Final Battle due to injuries. The fact that Jay Briscoe has spent a good deal of his time feuding with The Kingdom (a feud that after awhile felt pretty stale), I think, is evidence of that.

Another thing is that I think having a heel as a champion is much more conducive to the idea of having a plethora of challengers, like Adam Cole did. If Jay Lethal wins the World Title, I think that problem could potentially be fixed. I mean, when you really think about it, Lethal has challenges lined up already. I'm sure they'll do one or two rematches with Jay Briscoe. Hanson defeated Jay Lethal during Survival of the Fittest last year, so he's got a claim to a title shot. After what happened last weekend, they could easily give a title shot to Kyle O'Reilly as well.

[Burnside]

ROH's creative situation is baffling. There is a worrisome lack of narration tying events together, be it in character motivation, match booking, or direction in commentary.

Jay Briscoe has been undefeated for over two years (we're getting close to three),yet there are almost no competitors hot on his track. We have Jay Lethal making advances, but who else has been agitating the World Champ? You don't need to have a firm schedule to plan a Jay Briscoe/Kyle O'Reilly program, but you can sow tension months before they even need to enter a "real" feud. What about Hanson? He's a guy without character (and limited mic skills to boot) but we understand him enough that the language of him taking out Jay Briscoe, at any podunk event, without any instigation, would mean that he feels he is owed his due at the title. Even with simple,intuitive booking, we can make the tone of the shows hold more depth. A champion is only as rich as his gallery of competitors. Jay Briscoe, as incongruous as he is with some of the company's impressive technical champions, is among the greatest, most storied (at very least, in terms of tenure with the company) characters in ROH history. Even if he doesn't do the pretty Broadways of bygone champions, he can at least be relied on to drive any program he's given.

Back on Jay Lethal, while I think his reign has been a boon for the midcard, he has been booked inconsistently, especially on commentary. Only in his own mind should he be considered among the best in the world. Kevin Kelly, of all people, should not concede to Lethal's or Martini's illusions of success. Lethal made a Faustian deal to revive his career with Martini and should be berated by the face commentator at every instance. Why are we calling him the best champion on television if that is the case? That sort of objectivity should be reserved for faces. With Lethal's momentum riding as strong as it is, he must maintain heat if he is to reach the next platform of ROH's top heel.

As for the returning talent, has there been no greater crying shame than the booking of the returning alumni in ROH? The Decade's original manifesto came and went, further no other storylines were created for any of the returning roster. As of today, the only creative programs to come out of the 2014-2015 returns/fly-ins have been Elgin/Styles, Bucks/reDRagon (that's being generous as far as "story" goes), Bad Influence's very recent ultimatum, and Joe's path to championship reclamation. Although there are scheduling complications with fly-in talent and television tapings, there is no reason for these marquee names to sit in marquee exhibition after exhibition--keep doing that, and the talent no longer becomes "marquee."

I find it disheartening to sit four months removed from Final Battle to have the same champions with little to no new challengers made in the mean time. While we have Lethal inching his way in the World Title picture, the Tag Team and TV picture leave much to be desired. Too much for me to excitingly anticipate their successors.

I completely agree with all of this. It never feels like anyone is chasing any of the champs. Elgin didn't get pinned at the 13th Anniversary Show, and, in fact, hasn't gotten a one-on-one rematch since losing the belt. Shouldn't he be cutting promos saying he is owed a title shot? Or even having the announcers push that fact? Same for Hanson. he wasn't pinned either, and even knocked Jay out with his finisher. The whole finish seemed to designed to tell us that if Elgin hadn't pulled him out of the ring, Hanson would be the ROH World Champion right now. Why isn't anyone mentioned him as someone who deserves a title shot?

The tag titles have been booked almost into oblivion, and most of the reason they aren't there yet is because reDRagon has been so amazing in the ring. Both AJ and Roddy have beaten the both (former) tag champs in singles matches. Why the the hell didn't we get Roddy and AJ challenging reDRagon for the tag titles. That could easily be an MOTYC right there (and Roddy could eat the pin to protect AJ for New Japan).

One thing that needs to stop are these "instant reward" things or similar "you get your title shot the very same night" deals. Not only are they lazy booking, but they quickly burn through matches that could be great if they were built up a little bit. It's small little chases that can headline a B show that make a champion's title reign feel full and busy.

Great post.

You are dead-on about the "instant reward" deals. It's lazy and it blows off interest that could be stretched to at least 2 shows.

And I feel like Roddy & AJ vs reDRagon as a doable match would have been something Sapolsky would have spotted and booked as a main event.

I do see improvement in the past month's shows and booking.

[Big Red Machine]

ROH's creative situation is baffling. There is a worrisome lack of narration tying events together, be it in character motivation, match booking, or direction in commentary.

Jay Briscoe has been undefeated for over two years (we're getting close to three),yet there are almost no competitors hot on his track. We have Jay Lethal making advances, but who else has been agitating the World Champ? You don't need to have a firm schedule to plan a Jay Briscoe/Kyle O'Reilly program, but you can sow tension months before they even need to enter a "real" feud. What about Hanson? He's a guy without character (and limited mic skills to boot) but we understand him enough that the language of him taking out Jay Briscoe, at any podunk event, without any instigation, would mean that he feels he is owed his due at the title. Even with simple,intuitive booking, we can make the tone of the shows hold more depth. A champion is only as rich as his gallery of competitors. Jay Briscoe, as incongruous as he is with some of the company's impressive technical champions, is among the greatest, most storied (at very least, in terms of tenure with the company) characters in ROH history. Even if he doesn't do the pretty Broadways of bygone champions, he can at least be relied on to drive any program he's given.

Back on Jay Lethal, while I think his reign has been a boon for the midcard, he has been booked inconsistently, especially on commentary. Only in his own mind should he be considered among the best in the world. Kevin Kelly, of all people, should not concede to Lethal's or Martini's illusions of success. Lethal made a Faustian deal to revive his career with Martini and should be berated by the face commentator at every instance. Why are we calling him the best champion on television if that is the case? That sort of objectivity should be reserved for faces. With Lethal's momentum riding as strong as it is, he must maintain heat if he is to reach the next platform of ROH's top heel.

As for the returning talent, has there been no greater crying shame than the booking of the returning alumni in ROH? The Decade's original manifesto came and went, further no other storylines were created for any of the returning roster. As of today, the only creative programs to come out of the 2014-2015 returns/fly-ins have been Elgin/Styles, Bucks/reDRagon (that's being generous as far as "story" goes), Bad Influence's very recent ultimatum, and Joe's path to championship reclamation. Although there are scheduling complications with fly-in talent and television tapings, there is no reason for these marquee names to sit in marquee exhibition after exhibition--keep doing that, and the talent no longer becomes "marquee."

I find it disheartening to sit four months removed from Final Battle to have the same champions with little to no new challengers made in the mean time. While we have Lethal inching his way in the World Title picture, the Tag Team and TV picture leave much to be desired. Too much for me to excitingly anticipate their successors.

I completely agree with all of this. It never feels like anyone is chasing any of the champs. Elgin didn't get pinned at the 13th Anniversary Show, and, in fact, hasn't gotten a one-on-one rematch since losing the belt. Shouldn't he be cutting promos saying he is owed a title shot? Or even having the announcers push that fact? Same for Hanson. he wasn't pinned either, and even knocked Jay out with his finisher. The whole finish seemed to designed to tell us that if Elgin hadn't pulled him out of the ring, Hanson would be the ROH World Champion right now. Why isn't anyone mentioned him as someone who deserves a title shot?

The tag titles have been booked almost into oblivion, and most of the reason they aren't there yet is because reDRagon has been so amazing in the ring. Both AJ and Roddy have beaten the both (former) tag champs in singles matches. Why the the hell didn't we get Roddy and AJ challenging reDRagon for the tag titles. That could easily be an MOTYC right there (and Roddy could eat the pin to protect AJ for New Japan).

One thing that needs to stop are these "instant reward" things or similar "you get your title shot the very same night" deals. Not only are they lazy booking, but they quickly burn through matches that could be great if they were built up a little bit. It's small little chases that can headline a B show that make a champion's title reign feel full and busy.

Great post.

You are dead-on about the "instant reward" deals. It's lazy and it blows off interest that could be stretched to at least 2 shows.

And I feel like Roddy & AJ vs reDRagon as a doable match would have been something Sapolsky would have spotted and booked as a main event.

Not just spotted. I don't think Gabe (or Pearce) would have given Roddy the wins if such a title shot wasn't the plan. I was sure that was the whole point of Roddy beating Kyle in Atlanta. But apparently not. Delirious just jobbed out a champion because... um...

[Burnside]

Kyle O'Reilly in singles matches has been beaten like a drum for months, really to an excessive degree. It's bizarre because I'm pretty sure he's the next world champ after Lethal.

[Big Red Machine]

ROH's creative situation is baffling. There is a worrisome lack of narration tying events together, be it in character motivation, match booking, or direction in commentary.

Jay Briscoe has been undefeated for over two years (we're getting close to three),yet there are almost no competitors hot on his track. We have Jay Lethal making advances, but who else has been agitating the World Champ? You don't need to have a firm schedule to plan a Jay Briscoe/Kyle O'Reilly program, but you can sow tension months before they even need to enter a "real" feud. What about Hanson? He's a guy without character (and limited mic skills to boot) but we understand him enough that the language of him taking out Jay Briscoe, at any podunk event, without any instigation, would mean that he feels he is owed his due at the title. Even with simple,intuitive booking, we can make the tone of the shows hold more depth. A champion is only as rich as his gallery of competitors. Jay Briscoe, as incongruous as he is with some of the company's impressive technical champions, is among the greatest, most storied (at very least, in terms of tenure with the company) characters in ROH history. Even if he doesn't do the pretty Broadways of bygone champions, he can at least be relied on to drive any program he's given.

Back on Jay Lethal, while I think his reign has been a boon for the midcard, he has been booked inconsistently, especially on commentary. Only in his own mind should he be considered among the best in the world. Kevin Kelly, of all people, should not concede to Lethal's or Martini's illusions of success. Lethal made a Faustian deal to revive his career with Martini and should be berated by the face commentator at every instance. Why are we calling him the best champion on television if that is the case? That sort of objectivity should be reserved for faces. With Lethal's momentum riding as strong as it is, he must maintain heat if he is to reach the next platform of ROH's top heel.

As for the returning talent, has there been no greater crying shame than the booking of the returning alumni in ROH? The Decade's original manifesto came and went, further no other storylines were created for any of the returning roster. As of today, the only creative programs to come out of the 2014-2015 returns/fly-ins have been Elgin/Styles, Bucks/reDRagon (that's being generous as far as "story" goes), Bad Influence's very recent ultimatum, and Joe's path to championship reclamation. Although there are scheduling complications with fly-in talent and television tapings, there is no reason for these marquee names to sit in marquee exhibition after exhibition--keep doing that, and the talent no longer becomes "marquee."

I find it disheartening to sit four months removed from Final Battle to have the same champions with little to no new challengers made in the mean time. While we have Lethal inching his way in the World Title picture, the Tag Team and TV picture leave much to be desired. Too much for me to excitingly anticipate their successors.

I completely agree with all of this. It never feels like anyone is chasing any of the champs. Elgin didn't get pinned at the 13th Anniversary Show, and, in fact, hasn't gotten a one-on-one rematch since losing the belt. Shouldn't he be cutting promos saying he is owed a title shot? Or even having the announcers push that fact? Same for Hanson. he wasn't pinned either, and even knocked Jay out with his finisher. The whole finish seemed to designed to tell us that if Elgin hadn't pulled him out of the ring, Hanson would be the ROH World Champion right now. Why isn't anyone mentioned him as someone who deserves a title shot?

The tag titles have been booked almost into oblivion, and most of the reason they aren't there yet is because reDRagon has been so amazing in the ring. Both AJ and Roddy have beaten the both (former) tag champs in singles matches. Why the the hell didn't we get Roddy and AJ challenging reDRagon for the tag titles. That could easily be an MOTYC right there (and Roddy could eat the pin to protect AJ for New Japan).

One thing that needs to stop are these "instant reward" things or similar "you get your title shot the very same night" deals. Not only are they lazy booking, but they quickly burn through matches that could be great if they were built up a little bit. It's small little chases that can headline a B show that make a champion's title reign feel full and busy.

What's interesting about both of your comments regarding the World Title picture is that just last year, when Adam Cole was champion, he had a plethora of World Title Contenders lined up to face him. It was really one of the strengths of Adam Cole's title reign and a general positive in 2014. I mean, there were shows that ended with Cole being confronted by the likes of Jay Briscoe, Michael Elgin, Chris Hero & Kevin Steen all at once, and all of them had legitimate claims to challenge for the title.

I think part of the issue is that Jay Briscoe getting the title back was never really the plan to begin with (or at least that's how it was reported), both with Michael Elgin losing the title to Jay Briscoe due to all of the crazy stuff that went down with Elgin, and Adam Cole not getting the title back at Final Battle due to injuries. The fact that Jay Briscoe has spent a good deal of his time feuding with The Kingdom (a feud that after awhile felt pretty stale), I think, is evidence of that.

Another thing is that I think having a heel as a champion is much more conducive to the idea of having a plethora of challengers, like Adam Cole did. If Jay Lethal wins the World Title, I think that problem could potentially be fixed. I mean, when you really think about it, Lethal has challenges lined up already. I'm sure they'll do one or two rematches with Jay Briscoe. Hanson defeated Jay Lethal during Survival of the Fittest last year, so he's got a claim to a title shot. After what happened last weekend, they could easily give a title shot to Kyle O'Reilly as well.

You're right about Cole, and I think that might be why it's taken me so long to realize some of the problems with the booking.
That being said, while I agree that a heel champ is more conducive to multiple people chasing the belt, it's not that hard to do with a babyface, either. Tyler Black's title reign is a good example of that. But you don't even need a sustained chase. Aries' first title reign (and I know he wasn't a babyface, but it's not like he was cheating much, either) had one or two people chasing the belt, and had a bunch of others built up very well for one big match. They haven't done that at all with Jay and didn't do it at all with Elgin. Instead it's all this "instant reward" crap.
Yes, Jay getting and then keeping the belt wasn't the original plan, but if your plans have to change, then sometimes your booking does, too. It's already almost May. Delirious knew that Jay was keeping the belt back in December. We have had something like four sets of TV tapings and a while bunch of house shows, but Jay has had nothing do to aside from face Joe (which practically fell into Delirious' lap).
Yes, they could easily give Kyle a world title shot. As I said in my above post, they could have (and really still could) easily done the same for Elgin and Hanson. I'm pretty sure Roddy hasn't lost since January. But there has been no mention of any of these guys getting world title shots. Meanwhile we've gotten stuff like ACH being awarded a world title shot because he got pinned cleanly by the world champion in Champions vs. All-Stars. How f*cking backwards is that? (yes, they could have made this make sense if they had ACH as the only guy left on his team for a while and eliminating other guys and then get beaten quickly by Jay because he is so drained and Jay wants to have a fair singles match with him, but that's not what they did).

[Burnside]

Not to invalidate any of that, but I'm pretty sure that the Roddy push is setting him up as Lethal's first major challenger.

[Thelone]

Yeah, that's what I'm getting also. Roddy is always one of the first guy to job to a new champion (1st ROH defense vs. Davey, 4th vs. Steen, 2nd vs. Cole, 2nd vs. Elgin) and this won't be any different, especially with HoT around.

[DXvsNWO1994]

You are dead-on about the "instant reward" deals. It's lazy and it blows off interest that could be stretched to at least 2 shows.

And I feel like Roddy & AJ vs reDRagon as a doable match would have been something Sapolsky would have spotted and booked as a main event.

I do see improvement in the past month's shows and booking.

Yeah the whole "Instant Reward" deal is really weird. I'm ok with the idea of a Proving Ground Match (since it essentially sets up a future title match, which is fine), but getting that title shot immediately afterwords is just so weird. It's never really clicked with me.

On the subject of Roderick Strong, I've had a feeling that they might do Strong vs. Elgin at the PPV in June. A "Battle of the Top Contenders" Match of sorts. Anyone else feel the same?

[Big Red Machine]

Not to invalidate any of that, but I'm pretty sure that the Roddy push is setting him up as Lethal's first major challenger.

I'm feeling that, too, but it'd be nice of they actually mentioned that he is being considered for a title shot so that it doesn't just come completely out of nowhere when it happens.

[Big Red Machine]

You are dead-on about the "instant reward" deals. It's lazy and it blows off interest that could be stretched to at least 2 shows.

And I feel like Roddy & AJ vs reDRagon as a doable match would have been something Sapolsky would have spotted and booked as a main event.

I do see improvement in the past month's shows and booking.

Yeah the whole "Instant Reward" deal is really weird. I'm ok with the idea of a Proving Ground Match (since it essentially sets up a future title match, which is fine), but getting that title shot immediately afterwords is just so weird. It's never really clicked with me.

On the subject of Roderick Strong, I've had a feeling that they might do Strong vs. Elgin at the PPV in June. A "Battle of the Top Contenders" Match of sorts. Anyone else feel the same?

Even the Proving Ground idea was silly to me because of course you deserve a title shot if you beat the champion. If you go to a draw with the champ, it opens up a whole bunch of possibilities for future matches which should all eventually result in a title shot (maybe the next time you have a longer time limit and get the win so you get a title shot, or you only go to a draw because the heel champ is running away and trying to run out the clock so management gives you a title shot, etc.), but you can almost always get another match out of it where it feels like the story is progressing before going to the title shot. Proving Ground forces you to go to the title shot after the first match.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

Kyle O'Reilly in singles matches has been beaten like a drum for months, really to an excessive degree. It's bizarre because I'm pretty sure he's the next world champ after Lethal.

That's the problem with being one of the best full time roster members, on a roster full of part timers who don't lose.
Luckily for Kyle, being such a dominant tag champion the whole time and beating the big name part timers in tag situations means that his stock hasn't really dropped.
Unlike ACH, who you can definitely debate is worse off now after getting a series of high profile matches but losing. The only why I don't think that's the case is because of how terribly he's been handled during his whole ROH career.

I agree that the lack of having a "next world champ" on the hunt for a title hurts. There's no one on the roster that really fits that bill at the moment, which is unfortunate since that is always the most popular kind of story.

[AndyDiaz]

Kyle O'Reilly in singles matches has been beaten like a drum for months, really to an excessive degree. It's bizarre because I'm pretty sure he's the next world champ after Lethal.

That's the problem with being one of the best full time roster members, on a roster full of part timers who don't lose.
Luckily for Kyle, being such a dominant tag champion the whole time and beating the big name part timers in tag situations means that his stock hasn't really dropped.
Unlike ACH, who you can definitely debate is worse off now after getting a series of high profile matches but losing. The only why I don't think that's the case is because of how terribly he's been handled during his whole ROH career.

I agree that the lack of having a "next world champ" on the hunt for a title hurts. There's no one on the roster that really fits that bill at the moment, which is unfortunate since that is always the most popular kind of story.

I think the logic for Kyle losing so many singles matches is that since he's a tag champ, he can only win tag matches, thats the only explanation I can think of.

[Burnside]

Note from this week's Observer:

- With WWE, Jeff Jarrett, and Lucha Underground all looking at talent, ROH is trying to lock guys up and they have started talks with guys whose contracts are up in a few months. There are guys in ROH whose deals are up soon who are privately saying they won’t renew.

Dave says that in choosing between ROH and GFW, wrestlers are very likely to opt for whoever has the best relationship with NJPW as most of them want to go there.

Jarrett is said to be interested in Roderick Strong.

[monster mafia]

roh is in a very good position right now,i hope they choose the best option.

fuck gfw

[jordidebaas]

roh is in a very good position right now,i hope they choose the best option.

fuck gfw

It would be kinda stupid of them not to choose the best option, wouldn't it?