Something missing

[EvanKnight]

Watching this past week's ROH TV, I found myself enjoying the Briscoe/Jacobs. It was actually the first ROH match I have seen in a long time that made me want to go back and re-watch it later. My thought, however, watching it was that it was missing something. I never really felt Jay was in that much trouble and therefore couldn't fully appreciate Jimmy's distress. If there had been some weapon shot, big-time bump, or spiteful run-in that gave that "whoa" sense that Jay might not be able to come back from that, it would have been great. That got me thinking. ROH has been on a really good run recently, but it often feels that there is just that "missing something" that would really push current ROH up to "great."

I bought the first (reboot) PPV. It was good, solid, glad I watched show, but as I type this nothing jumps out at me from it. I intended on getting the second, but honestly forgot about purchasing it to record before I left town for the weekend and afterward I didn't get the sense that I missed anything "must see." Overall, I think ROH is producing a better product than they have in years, and I hope they can find that "missing something" to get the world talking and steal the show Mania weekend.

Am I alone? Thoughts?

[isles11]

A few of Jays matches have been that. While his match against Cole at Final Battle was pretty good.

It seemed a bit like a glorified squash. Cole did get some offense, but was never seemed like he could actually win.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

They are missing a world champion capable of delivering really great matches to make the progression from good to great in my opinion.

[Big Red Machine]

They are missing a world champion capable of delivering really great matches to make the progression from good to great in my opinion.

Exactly this. Jay Briscoe is a very good wrestler and I appreciate everything he has done for ROH, but as a singles wrestler, he just isn't world championship material.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

I think in the last couple years they've been very consistently at a real high level, but agree they've been missing something. Match and show quality have been very good and the return to bringing in big outside names has been awesome. But since Steen's reign there have been very few story lines that really hook me other than maybe Cole/Briscoe.

[tigermask7.0]

what is missing is a consistent sizeable roster

the addition of wrestlers like a.j. styles, el patron, killer elite squad & samoa joe is good in term of diversity and match quality
but it makes logical booking difficult due to inconsistent scheduling
you cannot create long term narratives and legitimate title contenders with short-term contractors
it makes you not invest fully into the product

[ROHFan25]

Whats missing = A good booker who can create interesting storylines. Another thing that hurts is time constraints.

The fact that a PPV with reDragon/Bucks, ACH/AJ, and Patron/Lethal was underwhelming is just sad.

Jay vs Cole was an incredible match. Why? Had meaning behind it, a good story line. People were also complaining about Cole when he was champion. People complained about Elgin when he was champion. There is no answer. There is no wrestler on the roster who is capable of having ****1/2 main events every show because the new ROH just doesn't allow that. It's extremely obvious. People need to accept that. It's a TV product, the only problem is the storylines are incredibly boring.

[DBSommer]

Jay vs Cole was an incredible match. Why? Had meaning behind it, a good story line. People were also complaining about Cole when he was champion. People complained about Elgin when he was champion. There is no answer. There is no wrestler on the roster who is capable of having ****1/2 main events every show because the new ROH just doesn't allow that. .

There was never a wrestler capable of having ****1/2 main events every show ever. Even Danielson in his prime, who turned out more high caliber matches than any other champ, didn't come close to doing that. He had plenty of forgettable defenses, and even non-title matches during his run. It's not a 'new ROH' thing, it's just a fact of life. You make a lot of good points otherwise, but that statement is just wrong because it holds up an unattainable standard.

[trufreedom]

what is missing is a consistent sizeable roster

the addition of wrestlers like a.j. styles, el patron, killer elite squad & samoa joe is good in term of diversity and match quality
but it makes logical booking difficult due to inconsistent scheduling
you cannot create long term narratives and legitimate title contenders with short-term contractors
it makes you not invest fully into the product

I disagree with this I think.

I mean, you had Joe for five shows, including the anniversary... It's totally possible to build a compelling storyline around him.

And AJ, my god, he's been in the company for a long friggin time now... Even with sporadic dates, it's ridiculous there hasn't been some sort of story or character arc.

You just need someone more capable of this creative vision at the helm.

[Smile]

I think ROH needs a writer who can come in and connect the dots. By that I mean, make the shows more cohesive. Feature the part-timers like Styles and Joe in story arcs with full-timers like ACH or Jay Briscoe.

ROH can do this. They tape about 4 episodes of their TV shows in one night so why can't they give the shows some structure by telling a story.

Not every story told is Russo-rific. ROH can find the right writer for them to help them define their wrestlers and angles better.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Well said.

[McXal]

Whats missing = A good booker who can create interesting storylines. Another thing that hurts is time constraints.

ROHFan25 has got it in a nutshell for me. Over the last couple of years my interest in ROH (as a fan of the company since 2002) has really dwindled. The above factors are almost exclusively the reason why. My tastes as a wrestling fan simply aren't the target market for ROH's product anymore and I understand that, but it feels like ever since they gave Davey/Eddie at Final Battle 2011 a generous time allowance and plenty of people didn't like it, there has been a consistent move towards limiting time allowances for matches on the vast majority of cards.

ROH's creative has consistently nose-dived since Delirious took over. With the possible exception of the Cole/Elgin and Cole/Briscoe arcs (which I liked, even though I hated Elgin going over Cole at BITW 2014) and the initial success of The Decade angle (some of the Strong/Cedric stuff was outstanding) he has consistently delivered cliche'd, underwhelming, unoriginal, unimaginative and completely perfunctory and lacklustre booking/storylines. He has no serious ability to book long term, seems completely incapable of writing effective long-term story-arcs for midcard feuds/talents

There are still plenty of great talents on the roster. AJ, Joe, Daniels and the Bucks getting booked even semi-regularly is great. In terms of the core and/or contracted roster there are still a lot of guys I really like - Fish, O'Reilly, Ciampa, Lethal, Cole, ACH, Strong, Page, Silas (I'd include Jimmy Jacobs in this too but it looks like he's leaving)

But I haven't felt for a long while that the set-up of SBG's ROH product or the creative output of Delirious does enough to position them in a way which delivers the kind of buzzworthy product which really gets people talking, really creates a 'cult atmosphere' and makes ROH a genuine, threatening alternative in any real sense.

As an aside, I'd also like to throw in that Kevin Kelly is a major problem for ROH too. Their product will never appear to be a cool, exciting, innovative, original, alternative to the other promotions out there whilst they have an out-dated, nerdish dinosaur calling the action.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

Whats missing = A good booker who can create interesting storylines. Another thing that hurts is time constraints.

The fact that a PPV with reDragon/Bucks, ACH/AJ, and Patron/Lethal was underwhelming is just sad.

Jay vs Cole was an incredible match. Why? Had meaning behind it, a good story line. People were also complaining about Cole when he was champion. People complained about Elgin when he was champion. There is no answer. There is no wrestler on the roster who is capable of having ****1/2 main events every show because the new ROH just doesn't allow that. It's extremely obvious. People need to accept that. It's a TV product, the only problem is the storylines are incredibly boring.

I agree with you in terms of booking and time constraints hurting the product.
While I do not think there is somebody capable of having **** 1/2 matches every show, I do think that somebody like O'Reilly at least can give us **** 1/2 main events for the big shows. Something the current champion is unable to do.
So in a nutshell: better long term booking, get rid off Russo'esque overbooking, if you're limited to 3 hours on PPV only book 6 matches and give them the time to be able to tell a story and get the World title on somebody who is capabale of delivering high quality wrestling. I'm not saying ROH is horrible or boring, right now they're definitely delivering the best product in America, but the mentioned aspects keep ROH from being this great company that everyone was talking about between 04-08 and 2010.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

I just wish the type of story with a natural feel that slowly builds personal issues and characters was more frequent, as I find it much more interesting than the cookie cutter feud that last a couple months and then just ends. The former mentioned booking is the type that builds characters and stars.

Just look at what are by far the two most interesting and successful stories to happen under Delirious. Kingdom/Cole/Briscoes turned Cole into the one of the biggest stars in wrestling outside of WWE/TNA and made the Briscoes more relevant than they've been in years. The Decade/Page/Strong feud turned Adam Page from a really low card guy into a valuable roster member, finally gave Jacobs and Strong something interesting, and even managed to make BJ Whitmer an interesting character. Lethal has been a major success as well, although that has more to do with Lethal himself I think.

It's unfortunate that there isn't more of this type of thing going on, as Elgin, ACH, Cedric, The Addiction, and Ciampa are in no better position than they were a year or more ago.