How Long can ROH last with DVD's? (Network vs. Ringside)

[Montana]

Each passing day physical media is being less and less relevant... and I think ROH has taken steps to go in the right direction, but haven't fully opted this notion. Which, may be best for the current market... but i think with WWE going more digital, so should ROH.

Now the WWE Network is somewhat similar to the ROH ringside experience...But i think WWE hit the nail on the head, where as ROH's membership is just OK. With Roku, ChromeCast, smart phones, Playstations, Xbox being part of every day life... the WWE network is much more accessible, and more content/value. I understand WWE have millions of fans, and with ROH only having thousands and thousands of fans, it makes it hard to compete with them in terms of value. With ROH striving for a television deal... as times passes, maybe it looks like ROH should have focused more on adopting some of these newer media forms.

What i'd like to see in 2014
- Ringside Members get Every ROH show, live or within 2 days. Including PPV's. Full access to every past show.
- ROH Ringside available on Roku, Tablets, Smart Phones, Xbox, PS's...etc
- ROH General Members get the TV show available as it airs.
- DVD's.... New DVD;s start at 12$ (Who are we kidding here, New Blu Rays are cheaper than the ROH DVD's... I feel like ROH can't continue with selling 20$ dvds.
If you can be more accessible on these other media forms.... is Cable needed???

But with these changes ... more revenue would need to come in... so

With being more accessible , and adding more content (IPPV's, house shows, full history) so should the cost of the membership. I'm thinking in the terms of Platinum membership 20$ a month, includes 3-4 live shows. all TV shows, and some platinum only content, and 20% off ROH shop. Gold Membership 10$ a month, includes IPPV's , and TV shows. limited access to other material.

ROH Vault
Let's say you have a boat load of old ROH DVD's and you want that content digitally, but not pay for the monthly ringside service.... Offer a service to upload / Disc to Digital (Like Vudu/Cinema Now/Flixster) and for a nominal fee, you can have access to your older shows wirelessly. Typically this service runs around 1$ per dvd.... I would recommend ROH offer discount for bulk uploads.

I think between the membership and the vault, this would meet the needs of the fans. Is it realistic??? Is there money for these changes??? ... I think further down the road... but at some point ROH will need to take the plunge, because as i see it now, with 20$ DVD's, a ringside membership that mostly caters to new fans, and isn't available on several media outlets, and a poor cable deal, ROH NEEDS to make some changes.

Thoughts?? Can ROH continue with their path, and still maintain a healthy business status?? Just curious to see what others think.

[trufreedom]

The reason SBG picked up ROH, or would pick up anything like it in the current marketplace, would be to contend in a digital market place.

SBG owns TV stations, a medium on it's way out, and the only thing they produce is news and the like, again, a medium that's on it's way out. Other than that, all they really do is rebroadcast television produced by other people. This isn't a business model that works anymore.

So the only reason Sinclaire would make the purchase was to start creating their own original programming so they at least have something to offer in the digital marketplace.

That being said...

The WWE network is an unprecedented hail mary. One that may not work out for Vince and Co., and competing companies don't need to go as all or nothing as the WWE Network, but therein lies the questions that the entire television industry is asking themselves, the most important of which seems to be;

Can an actual, legitimate television corporation survive producing television only for Netflix, Hulu, YouTube etc.

Not that this isn't a gamble in it's own right. If you put an ROH show on Netflix, that show has virtually no value as a DVD anywhere else.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

I think they're on the right track. There's no way they can compete with the WWE Network in terms of content or price. ROH needs to make more per sale, and doesn't have the capital to deliver on even half of what the WWE is doing. Obviously they should continually try to improve, but in smaller steps.
Here's what i would do:

-Improved TV show production and taping schedule. Putting the priority on a good tv show is the current goal, and a good one. You don't have to get people to buy anything, but theoretically should make more money from advertising with increased viewers. SBG owning the stations is a huge plus. This is still a great way to grow an audience and would hopefully lead to enough fan interest to buy online content.

-Get the live ippv situation sorted out and fixed asap. Everyone likes the ability to watch live, and going away from live ippv (while the right decision at the time) has really hurt the company in a lot of people's eyes. Once they consistently deliver on these they could offer some sort of membership deal where if you buy all the ppv's you get some live vods for free or something.

-Work on availability of content, i.e mobile devices, roku, etc. I'd say this is less important right now but will be a trend going forward.

Most of all, they need to push the QUALITY of Ring of Honor. Gabe had a great analogy comparing WWE to Walmart, and independent promotions like the local grocery store. While you'll have to pay slightly higher prices than you would for the WWE Network, you are NOT paying higher prices for the same content. ROH content is of higher quality, and as such is worth the slightly higher price.

[DXvsNWO1994]

I do think they need to put all of their past events online for Ringside Members to view. I mean they have some stuff on the site already, but having everything up there would be a huge plus. It would put a lot more value in the Ringside Membership.

Also, I agree that ROH needs to push the quality of their product. The price is a bit higher, but you're getting more bang for your buck (no pun intended) compared to WWE, especially recently with the quality of WWE PPV's being so crappy since SummerSlam.

[brian]

for a start there is definitely no reason for them not to have all old OOP shows available some way digitally. That is content they can be making money off of that they are leaving for people to only get by other means (besides matches here and there on comps).

[Mattxx87]

Serious question: As a Ringside Member, I've noticed most shows from 2002-2005 are not available. Are these shows owned by RFVideo and not Ring of Honor, as they were produced before the Feinstein Incident and the sale of the company? Understandably, you have to assume Silken bought all the archives, but, maybe he didn't. It was a small company at the time, maybe some details we part of the negotiation? I really have no idea.

My other problem is, there were such a small quantity of the original shows made that the original DVDs cost between $30-$200 on the open market. Shows like The Era of Honor Begins, Generation Next, and Final Battle 2002 are all ridiculously priced due to supply and demand. Ten years ago ROH wasn't anywhere near as big as it is now, thus demand was smaller. I feel Ringside Members should have these shows uploaded digitally and available to them. I'd be willing to pay more for a monthly subscription if so, but, paying $30-200 on the open market for one show thats ten years old is just ridiculous.

There is only one reason Ring of Honor can not and will never be able to compete with WWE: The ability of WWE to buy out the talent if they ever legitimately felt like they were a threat. ROH could never have their big names under exclusive contract, because that would prevent them from working in PWG (Eliminating Elgin, Steen, and Cole), as well as Japan. Additionally, fans cussed out TNA from putting all their talent under contract in 2004, and cussed out WCW in 1996-1997, making them choose between ROH and TNA , ECW and WCW respectively. We know how that turned out. I don't want ROH to be "that" company. It's a double edged sword. They can never compete, therefor never have the same production value, media coverage, national television exposure, unless they are willing to make talent sign contracts, protect their investments, and their brand.

[Braggis]

It all comes down to money.

RoH doesn't have the kind of money it would take to do anything like that. With the exception of their one-hour, weekly TV show, all product of the company is run off a fairly cheap-looking website.

RoH needs to worry about figuring out the iPPV situation before it starts thinking about Netflix and shit like that.

[The Dragon Saga]

RoH doesn't have the kind of money it would take to do anything like that.

Wrong. They have the money, it's just that someone in an office somewhere decides not to invest it.

[TYFDK]

I like OP's idea.

If they can't do that, at least try to do something similar.

Basically, make the Ringside membership more worth the customer's money. Adding all recent shows and a lot more older ones would be a start.

More original content, as well.

[indyfan]

I think they're on the right track. There's no way they can compete with the WWE Network in terms of content or price. ROH needs to make more per sale, and doesn't have the capital to deliver on even half of what the WWE is doing. Obviously they should continually try to improve, but in smaller steps.
Here's what i would do:

-Improved TV show production and taping schedule. Putting the priority on a good tv show is the current goal, and a good one. You don't have to get people to buy anything, but theoretically should make more money from advertising with increased viewers. SBG owning the stations is a huge plus. This is still a great way to grow an audience and would hopefully lead to enough fan interest to buy online content.

-Get the live ippv situation sorted out and fixed asap. Everyone likes the ability to watch live, and going away from live ippv (while the right decision at the time) has really hurt the company in a lot of people's eyes. Once they consistently deliver on these they could offer some sort of membership deal where if you buy all the ppv's you get some live vods for free or something.

-Work on availability of content, i.e mobile devices, roku, etc. I'd say this is less important right now but will be a trend going forward.

Most of all, they need to push the QUALITY of Ring of Honor. Gabe had a great analogy comparing WWE to Walmart, and independent promotions like the local grocery store. While you'll have to pay slightly higher prices than you would for the WWE Network, you are NOT paying higher prices for the same content. ROH content is of higher quality, and as such is worth the slightly higher price.

Jesus come on. First of all, Though i love ROH and find they do have a a great amount of amazing matches and high quality wrestling. The stuff they have available on their ringside membership doesn't even reflect that. Especially for the 14.95(-15% for RM) to rent a show for 1 year. If they actually had old shows on their VOD service. Then id agree. But they don't. they just have sinclair stuff and though some of it is great... WWEs vault is a way better.

ive said it before. the ringside membership is ridiculous and the 14.95 for VOD is a rip off.

I really hope WWE network makes ROH change their strategy on VOD. ROH is way over priced. Their dvds should cost 15.00 not 20 and their VODs should cost 10.00 at the most( id actually say they should cost 7-8) for life not for one year.

Id actually think it would be better if all shows over a year old became available with the ringside membership. SO basically if you want to watch a current house/big show its 10.00 for 1 year until it becomes regularly available to all ringside members.

Also don't forget people if they go completely digital. there is always the risk that ROH folds and all that digital content you paid a monthly fee for is gone. That why i buy DVDS. i don't expect ROH to be around in the next 10 years. So in that case, WWEs membership is worth it because WWE isn't going any where soon. Safer bet to pay them a monthly charge for their vault.

Im also more for ROH allowing fans to download to keep their shows above anything else.

[Robareid]

I'd personally be more than happy to pay $20 a month for a super Ringside membership, with all the VODs included and the TV show (and maybe over time a slow addition of the ROH archive being uploaded). It'd be more than the WWE network, but I personally feel that the WWE network is underpriced. Not complaining, but I'd have probably paid $10 a month if it didn't include PPVs.

[Braggis]

RoH doesn't have the kind of money it would take to do anything like that.

Wrong. They have the money, it's just that someone in an office somewhere decides not to invest it.

So, Sinclair isn't giving them the money then. Same difference. RoH itself doesn't have access to the cash or technical expertise to do it.

See: They can't get an iPPV working.

From what I can tell, no matter how much money or connections Sinclair has, they give RoH the weekly TV show and thats all they contribute to RoH.

[The Dragon Saga]

So, Sinclair isn't giving them the money then. Same difference. RoH itself doesn't have access to the cash or technical expertise to do it.

See: They can't get an iPPV working.

From what I can tell, no matter how much money or connections Sinclair has, they give RoH the weekly TV show and thats all they contribute to RoH.

Big difference actually. They have the money. They just aren't going to use the money on what you want them too. Like expanding the roster for needless reasons, they've an hour of TV a week and at most if they run a live event and a big event during the same month, ten hours a month. Right now the roster is at a perfect size, so unless it's someone worth it like an AJ Styles or Chris Hero who basically take Davey and Eddie's spots on the roster, why spend money without reason?

They don't see the need to do it. They have the money to do it if they want.

Also, the iPPV now is different, even Cornette said that. Now the issue is the amount of people watching. Too many for iPPV not enough for PPV.

[Braggis]

^ Thats a cop-out. Other wrestling promotions and events with a good number of buyers make iPPV work without the disasterous problems RoH had with them.

The problem is RoH was stuck with a shitty, sub-standard iPPV provider. Even Cornette said this. And SBG wasn't interested in helping them out with it.

I get why SBG didn't show much interest in helping. They don't see as big a slice of the pie from iPPV as they do their weekly, exclusive TV show.

[ROHdk]

I don't think the DVD medium will last much longer, unfortunately. But I could be wrong. 25 Years ago people doomed the vinyl record, and that format is alive and well these days.

ROH and the other indy promotions should work together on a streaming service. Maybe get TNA on board too, so there is an alternative to WWE Network.

[Colt45]

In a few years you will be watching ROH on the WWE network.

[ROHdk]

That is possible. I've read somewhere, that WWE might buy ROH eventually. To get the tape library.

[Mattxx87]

That is possible. I've read somewhere, that WWE might buy ROH eventually. To get the tape library.

As long as nothing else changes, such as leaving the booking to guys like Delirious and the day to day operations to Cary Silkin and others (who wrestlers worldwide respect), then I'd be okay with the WWE buying the company. To this day I think the WWE provided substantial financial resources to ECW, something Vince wasn't shy about admitting (the fact they appeared on RAW in 1997 should be proof enough). Whether it was financial support, talent loans, or a big assist in the PPV expansion behind the scenes, which helped stabilize ECW.

Simiarly, it's clear ROH and WWE have a working relationship, even if it's subtle. There is surely some connection between the companies much like ECW back in the day.

Many people say that ECW was a guinea pig for wrestling on TNN/Spike TV (followed by WWE and then TNA). If history repeats itself, does any one think that ROH iPPV and VOD was the testing ground on a small market for the technology that was developed for the WWE Network? This whole website thing kind of came out of the blue. If iPPV returns after the WWE Network launches (with WWE using iPPVs now), I'll personally believe they are working together. This thread itself talks about the similarities between the Ringside Membership and the WWE Network. Makes you wonder..

[jordidebaas]

Why the hell would WWE want to have a working relationship with ROH?

[Mattxx87]

Why the hell would WWE want to have a working relationship with ROH?

Should I actually justify that with a detailed answer or are you kidding? Maybe because their two biggest stars outside Cena (who a majority of fans boo out of the building every night), came from ROH? The future stars of the company (Rollins, Cesaro, Zayn, Adam Cole, Mike Bennett, hopefully Eddie Edwards and Hero (maybe in another year)) will come from ROH? They can use ROH to "relaunch" careers of people like Matt Hardy who need to reimagine their careers. ECW was phenomenal at that. If it wasn't for ECW, Scott Levy would have never invented the Raven character. Cactus Jack wouldn't have been as famous as he became. The "Stone Cold" character would never have been born. Al Snow invented the Head character there. Additionally it wasn't just a breeding ground for new stars, many any older stars went to ECW to get one last shot or or recharge their batteries, such as Terry Funk (before coming to the WWF in 1998).

They can also use a company like ROH to practice future technology, such as iPPV and VOD to a small market.

That's why. Don't be stupid.