Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

[Big Red Machine]

I haven't seen the show yet, but I'm not sure what everyone's problems with the main event result are.

Spoiler: show

Silas wasn't doing anything with the title and is now more useful in the six-man tag title picture anyway, you do need the title to actually change hands in one of these dumb "Instant Reward" scenarios at some point if you ever want people to believe that the belt might change hands in one at any future shows, doing a title change does establish some importance for these Honor Club shows, and- perhaps most importantly- Page and Martinez really seem like the level of guys who should be feuding over the TV Title.
Silas hasn't really clicked as an ROH-caliber main event level player. I'd put him in the same category as Taven where he can have main event level matches when he's in there with a top guy, but he's not someone who can carry others to those matches.

On a show that was treated as a night off for the guys and had a 'little person' to just carnie up ROH that level more it wasn't the time to do what they did.

Spoiler: show

Has there been someone that Silas has had a bad match with, i can't remember any. Personally i would say Silas has put himself over not necessarily as a main event player but he was at that level below, the TV title isn't always about moving someone up to the main event, it can just be about creating credibility which with Silas i think it certainly did. To me he was the perfect choice for the TV title, plus you already had a scenario that was building towards a bigger stage for him with Austin Aries and Kenny King, they left it open to now mean absolutely shit.

So this was all done to make the Page/Martinez match matter that little bit more, honestly that is just a shit reason to change a title, plus if they are just doing it to put the title on Page at the PPV he is going to the G1 so we are going to have nearly two months without any TV title on TV or PPV, sounds soo good....

I agree that that 'Instant Reward' matches should work at some point it just wasn't this point.[/spoiler

Spoiler: show

Okay. I didn't know about the little person and other such stuff.

As for Silas... it's not so much bad as disappointing. I don't think he and KUSHIDA clicked well, he didn't have a very good match with Suzuki or Shibata, nor him and Mark Briscoe, his stuff with Dalton and Steen was disappointing, and he only really had a great match with ACH when you gave them weapons to play around with. If you give a guy thirty minutes with Adam Cole for the ROH World Title I kind of expect more than 8.25/10. The only guys he has been able to have truly great ROH main event-level matches with (even if said matches weren't in the main event) were Roddy, Kyle, Lethal, and Cole. For a guy who is almost thirty-nine to be in ROH and not really showing an ability to carry a less-talented wrestler to a great match is not a good thing.

You also seem to be under the assumption that Page will be winning the title from Martinez at the PPV. I don't think that's a guarantee at all. I would hope that the fact that they are actually going to try running some shows during the G1 this year means that they're not going to then put the belt on a guy who will not only be off all of the shows for a month and a half but also be doing a bunch of jobs as well.
I think the reason this was done wasn't to make Page vs. Martinez mean more but to help make the title mean more by putting it on someone who will actually have an exciting match for it, then leaving it on a guy who will come across as a dominant champion.

[AlexROH]

It's not an issue of it not making sense. It's an expression of disbelief that the guys who ROH has representing them are so darn mediocre in the ring.

Taven isn't the problem. Taven can have great matches, and if ROH wants to give him a stable of lackeys then that's fine, too. We just want ROH to give him lackeys who are actually GOOD in the ring. ROH used to have a certain level of in-ring quality that was high enough that the company was able to promote itself on that. That level has dropped drastically in the past few years.

"ROH used to be...", man, it's always the same with all the problems you see lol

Sorry if I'm not prepared to accept mediocrity from I brand that earned my loyalty through high quality. Do you really think there isn't talent out there willing to work for the same price (or less) as guys like Marseglia who aren't better than he is?

Lol and more lol. Try to enjoy things they way they are now and not the way they used to be or the way you should think they should be. Again, I'm not saying you have to like what ROH does, I'm just saying that you should go and watch another company with better in ring talent and stop wasting your time doing long reviews (for free) of things that you don't even like man.

I used to love WWE, I watched their product for 10 years, but when I was in the point that you are with ROH, I quit. This is a hobby, try to enjoy your time watching things that you like (thing same conversation seems to last forever lol)

[AlexROH]

Night 2 of SOTA was an average show. The crowd was bigger and in a sold-out arena, but they were quiet all night long. The in-ring work was just that, not bad, not good, just average. I didn't hate it, but it wasn't your usual easy watch show (maybe I was little bit tired today too).

The best part was how this show felt like something "important". They promoted it a special show with the 3 title matches and it didn't dissapoint. The storylines and build to BITW was there, specially with Bucks/Briscoes and Page/Martinez. Talking about this, Page was so over with the crowd. Very cool to see that kind of reaction from the people.

I'm okay with Martinez winning the title. He isn't young and he had to win something to continue his ascension. Silas, on the other hand, doesn't need the title and it already a establish wrestler. He has been a good transitional champion. What I don't know is what is going to be the booking for both Silas and Martinez for the rest of the year. I hope too that, since Martinez is champ, the next champ after him is Page. He needs some singles gold too.

MOTN for the was the Briscoes match, which was my favourite match of the weekend. Such a strong title match. I've been looking for so long to see the Briscoes vs. KES, and they didn't dissapoint. The only "bad" part was the crowd, but that didn't hurt my enjoyement. Both teams looked great and the finish open the door for a future rematch. I hope the Briscoes defeat the Bucks at BITW, they are killing it this year.

Tenille vs. Thunder
Bucks vs. Boys +
CMLL vs. Kingdom 1/4+
Flip vs. Marty vs. Lethal 1/2 (good, but not as great as I read)

Hurricane/Delirioys vs Addiction - I'm not gonna waste my time with a Hurricane match
KES vs. Briscoes
Taylor vs. Cody - Didn't watch it
Martinez vs Page vs Gresham vs Sky vs Cheese vs Martinez + Martinez vs Silas 1/4

Final score: 5,75 / 10

[BurningHammer]

I haven't seen the show yet, but I'm not sure what everyone's problems with the main event result are.

Spoiler: show

Silas wasn't doing anything with the title and is now more useful in the six-man tag title picture anyway, you do need the title to actually change hands in one of these dumb "Instant Reward" scenarios at some point if you ever want people to believe that the belt might change hands in one at any future shows, doing a title change does establish some importance for these Honor Club shows, and- perhaps most importantly- Page and Martinez really seem like the level of guys who should be feuding over the TV Title.
Silas hasn't really clicked as an ROH-caliber main event level player. I'd put him in the same category as Taven where he can have main event level matches when he's in there with a top guy, but he's not someone who can carry others to those matches.

On a show that was treated as a night off for the guys and had a 'little person' to just carnie up ROH that level more it wasn't the time to do what they did.

Spoiler: show

Has there been someone that Silas has had a bad match with, i can't remember any. Personally i would say Silas has put himself over not necessarily as a main event player but he was at that level below, the TV title isn't always about moving someone up to the main event, it can just be about creating credibility which with Silas i think it certainly did. To me he was the perfect choice for the TV title, plus you already had a scenario that was building towards a bigger stage for him with Austin Aries and Kenny King, they left it open to now mean absolutely shit.

So this was all done to make the Page/Martinez match matter that little bit more, honestly that is just a shit reason to change a title, plus if they are just doing it to put the title on Page at the PPV he is going to the G1 so we are going to have nearly two months without any TV title on TV or PPV, sounds soo good....

I agree that that 'Instant Reward' matches should work at some point it just wasn't this point.[/spoiler

Spoiler: show

Okay. I didn't know about the little person and other such stuff.

As for Silas... it's not so much bad as disappointing. I don't think he and KUSHIDA clicked well, he didn't have a very good match with Suzuki or Shibata, nor him and Mark Briscoe, his stuff with Dalton and Steen was disappointing, and he only really had a great match with ACH when you gave them weapons to play around with. If you give a guy thirty minutes with Adam Cole for the ROH World Title I kind of expect more than 8.25/10. The only guys he has been able to have truly great ROH main event-level matches with (even if said matches weren't in the main event) were Roddy, Kyle, Lethal, and Cole. For a guy who is almost thirty-nine to be in ROH and not really showing an ability to carry a less-talented wrestler to a great match is not a good thing.

You also seem to be under the assumption that Page will be winning the title from Martinez at the PPV. I don't think that's a guarantee at all. I would hope that the fact that they are actually going to try running some shows during the G1 this year means that they're not going to then put the belt on a guy who will not only be off all of the shows for a month and a half but also be doing a bunch of jobs as well.
I think the reason this was done wasn't to make Page vs. Martinez mean more but to help make the title mean more by putting it on someone who will actually have an exciting match for it, then leaving it on a guy who will come across as a dominant champion.

Spoiler: show

I think Silas has grown a lot as a wretler this past year, especially with his connection to the crowd, people seem far more reactionary now. If you put those apponents in the ring with him now it would be a different story but i agree those matches you mentioned weren't a highlight.


It just seems logical to me that they do, Martinez is in that Silas bracket where as Page is entering that higher echelon of ROH or at least should be. I don't see how Martinez having the title means anything really, even if he maybe having a career year he didn't exactly light up before and he fucked quite a few times more so than Silas ever has.

I thought the tag match on night was a real let far to many random moments, a real lack of flow and obvious miss calls as to do something. I was really looking forward to it but it feel below what i was expecting. That being despite how awful i felt this show was they actually pushed the PPV more than i thought they ever would have.

[monster mafia]

The Best Wrestling on the Planet makes its debut at Orleans Arena in Las Vegas for two nights of the hard-hitting, fast-paced, in-your-face action only Ring of Honor can provide. The Death Before Dishonor pay-per-view takes place in the city known for bright lights and big fights on Friday, Sept. 28, and ROH returns to the venue the following night for an International Television Taping.

Tickets for the two events featuring all of the top ROH stars go on sale Wednesday, Aug. 1 at 10 a.m. local time for HonorClub members and Friday, Aug. 3 at 12 p.m. local time for the general public.

Death Before Dishonor has been an ROH staple since 2003 and has featured historic title changes and classic matches. This will be the third year in a row that Las Vegas has hosted the extravaganza.

Which ROH stars will have lady luck on their side in Sin City? And which of them will leave Las Vegas empty-handed? Join us for Death Before Dishonor weekend to find out!

Death Before Dishonor Pay-Per-View
Orleans Arena, Las Vegas
Friday, Sept. 28, 6 p.m. local time

ROH International Television Taping
Orleans Arena, Las Vegas
Saturday, Sept. 29, 6 p.m. local time




This summer, “The Best Wrestling on the Planet” is returning to a city in the South steeped in pro wrestling tradition, as Ring of Honor will hold a HonorClub On Tour event in the Nashville Municipal Auditorium on Friday, July 20!


SCHEDULED TO APPEAR:

DALTON CASTLE
THE BRISCOES (JAY & MARK BRISCOE)
CODY
SOCAL UNCENSORED (CHRISTOPHER DANIELS, FRANKIE KAZARIAN, & SCORPIO SKY)
THE YOUNG BUCKS (MATT & NICK JACKSON)
SILAS YOUNG
PUNISHMENT MARTINEZ
ADAM PAGE
“THE VILLAIN” MARTY SCURLL
JAY LETHAL
THE KINGDOM: (MATT TAVEN, TK O’RYAN, & VINNY MARSEGLIA)
SHANE TAYLOR
FLIP GORDON
CHEESEBURGER
WOMEN OF HONOR

[The Dragon Saga]

Announcing an event less than 30 days from it being held wouldn't be on top of my "smartest things to do" list if I'm being honest.

[Laviemarg]

Tickets have been on sale for Nashville for some time. They aren't moving too well.

[WebConn]

I'll be at ROH Vegas

[The Dragon Saga]

Tickets have been on sale for Nashville for some time. They aren't moving too well.

They have? I wasn't even aware.

[BurningHammer]

Have they even announced any matches for Nashville yet.

[Big Red Machine]

Have they even announced any matches for Nashville yet.

I doubt it. I'd expect them to start coming next week, once the PPV and TV tapings are over. And if they don't start coming next week, that's not a good sign at all.

[BurningHammer]

Yeah i would imagine so, they are going to have push hard to get it close to sold out.

[Big Red Machine]

ROH State of the Art 2018: San Antonio (6/15/2018)- San Antonio, TX


THE BOYS vs. THE KINGDOM (Matt Taven & Vinny Marseglia)- 4.5/10
The Boys jumped the bell on The Kingdom. Ian Riccaboni claims that it’s a matter of turnabout being fair play because The Kingdom do it often, but I honestly don’t remember this to be the case. That being said, at least Ian is making an effort to explain why this isn’t just the babyfaces cheating for no reason (which would, by definition, make them not babyfaces anymore).
Marseglia did his stupid “pull you under the ring” sh*t, which tonight resulted in whichever Boy he pulled under emerging wearing a yellow raincoat. I will give five million US dollars to anyone who can successfully convince me exactly how such a thing is supposed to be funny or scary or whatever this was supposed to be (the fans laughed at it so I guess it was supposed to be comedy, but Marseglia’s nickname is “The Horror King” so him doing comedy makes no sense). Marseglia then pulled said Boy into this odd crevice that separated the ringside area from the crowd (which all of the ringside attendants were standing in, which looked very weird). Ian Riccaboni then brought shame onto himself, his entire family, and Ring of Honor by describing this as being similar to “the Pit of Sorrow outside Jabba The Hutt’s lair.” As any respectable individual knows, Jabba has a palace, not a lair, and it’s the Great Pit of Carkoon, not the “Pit of Sorrow.”
The Kingdom beat up the remaining Boy until his partner came back to get the hot tag and make a comeback but The Kingdom eventually got the win. Matt Taven hit one of the Boys with Bangarang after the match and cut a promo on Dalton Castle- who he told the crowd wasn’t going to be here tonight because he is injured- claiming that he is the real ROH World Champion, not Dalton. He also told the crowd that The Briscoes’ flight was cancelled and thus The Kingdom is filling their spot in the main event. That’s a downgrade, especially if it’s Taven and Marseglia as opposed to Taven and O’Ryan.

FLIP GORDON vs. RHETT TITUS- 6.25/10
Before the match they had RHETT TITUS of all people cut a promo telling everyone that everyone in the ROH locker room is wondering whether or not Flip Gordon will get booked for All In. Really? Because I honestly can’t imagine that 99% of the locker room cares, but if Rhett didn’t say this we couldn’t get the storyline over for All In… which isn’t an ROH production. Everyone is saying that they sold the show out without a TV outlet, but they actually do have a TV outlet in ROH, who can’t shut up about the show and are seemingly letting Cody and The Bucks do whatever they want on ROH shows to build up All In.
This storyline in particular is irksome because it feels very counterproductive. At the same time that ROH is trying to get Flip Gordon over with this whole Bully Ray feud and New Japan is booking the guy relatively strongly in Best of the Super Juniors, we now have this parallel storyline going on where Flip is a goof who can’t get booked on All In because he keeps losing all of these “winner gets booked at All In matches in ROH and even some other promotions as well.
This match was a fine example of why I’m disappointed that undercard guys don’t get time in ROH anymore. These guys were given just ten minutes, but in that ten minutes they told a competent story about Rhett working over Flip’s midsection. It actually started after Flip slipped on a dive attempt and landed on his stomach on the turnbuckle, so I don’t know if Flip “botched” the dive on purpose to set this up or if it was a legit botch and they just went with it, but either way, good for them. Flip won, of course, because Rhett Titus is a total jobber now. I’m not saying Rhett should be in the main event or anything, but when you consider who else is getting some sort of push in this company (The Kingdom) Rhett should at least be in the midcard. I’d rather see fifteen minutes of a Rhett Titus singles match than fifteen minutes of Cody.

SUMIE SAKAI & TENILLE DASHWOOD vs. KELLY KLEIN & THUNDER ROSA- 6.75/10
Kelly Klein refused to wrestle Sumie at the beginning, saying she would only wrestle her if the title was on the line. When Sumie refused to tag out, Kelly then tagged out instead. The match was better than the usual Women of Honor fare, possibly because they were given a bit more time than usual. Funny how that works. Still, to make this division into something worthwhile, they need to be given a lot more than eleven minutes. The real driving forces of action in the division still feels like it’s Kelly and Tenille rather than anything having to do with the champion, and the division as a whole feels less like a division and more like Kelly, Tenille, Third Banana Champion Sumie, and whoever the interchangeable, only there to get pinned fourth woman happens to be on any given weekend.

JAY LETHAL vs. T.K. O’RYAN- 6.5/10
Not a good sign for O’Ryan if this is the best he can do in thireen minutes with Jay Lethal. Still better than Marseglia, though.

ADDICTION PROMO-dull
Apparently another wrinkle in the “Joe Koff told The Addiction their contracts won’t be renewed at the end of this year” storyline is that Koff said that because The Addiction threatened to “reveal where the bodies are buried.” If they have this terrible secret about ROH or Joe Koff or whoever then shouldn’t that be all of the leverage they need to keep from getting fired, making the whole “they need to win titles to have leverage” thing pointless? And if it’s not enough leverage then why is it even part of the storyline in the first place?
Anyway, these guys cut the usual cheap-heat “we hate it here in Town X” promo. Ian Riccaboni has to kill things by pointing out to us that Scorpio Sky says “this is the worst town I’ve ever been to” in every city ROH comes to.

SOCAL UNCENSORED vs. GUERRERO MAYA JR., STUKA JR., & ATLANTIS- 5.5/10
Christopher Daniels and Atlantis started tings off for their respective teams. They have a combined age of well over a hundred, and I now SOOOOOO BADLY want to see them face each other in a singles match. The match went about nine minutes and was okay for a match of that length featuring both meh wrestler Scorpio Sky and the very old Atlantis. Atlantis hit his big crossbody off the top, which actually looks more devastating now that he is heavier than he used to be. Then he got up and Daniels got up and Atlantis hit Daniels with a bodyslam… and got the pin. After a bodyslam. That was odd.

CURT STALLION vs. SILAS YOUNG- 6.75/10
These guys had a fantastic match for the time they were given. Silas gave Stallion a lot of offense here and he looked really good, both in kayfabe and out of it. If ROH doesn’t bring him back (and soon!) then I will lose all faith that these random matches against regional talent are anything other than filler (as opposed to the “what a great chance for this local wrestler to impress ROH management” that they are portrayed as).

BULLY RAY, PUNISHMENT MARTINEZ, & SHANE TAYLOR vs. CHEESEBURGER, DELIRIOUS, & SHANE HELMS- 3.75/10
Cabana and Riccaboni were joined on commentary by someone named “J-Rock” who was described as “someone from Shane Taylor’s past.” You would think that this person would be able to provide with some sort of insight about Shane Taylor, but he said absolutely nothing new. He was more of a hype-man for Taylor, which is fine if you want Taylor to have a manager… but if you want this guy to be Taylor’s manager then just make him Taylor’s manager!
The match itself was extremely boring unless Martinez was in. Taylor and Delirious did some meh comedy in the very beginning, then the heels cut off Cheeseburger and just threw him around for a while at a very slow pace while Bully yelled things at him. I’m sorry, but there are only so many times I can watch Cheeseburger (or the Boys, or whoever) get tossed around at a slow pace before it comes boring, and that’s what I’ve been getting on every single one of the past six shows. I just want this sh*t to end already.
Helms looked… fine. He was BY FAR the most over man we’d seen on the show so far, and a mid-forties WWE undercard comedy act from over a decade ago coming into the company and immediately being one of the most over guys on the show on his first night is a very bad look for ROH.

JONATHAN GRESHAM vs. CODY RHODES (w/Brandi Rhodes & Bernard the Business Bear)- 7/10
Lots of stalling from Cody and his entourage early on. When Cody and Gresham finally started wrestling, some f*cking moron in charge of production decided that instead of the wrestling match, it was much more important to show us a close-up of Ian Riccaboni showing off Cody’s stupid ring (so, yeah, I’m going to blame Ian for this, too. He should have told the cameraman to f*ck off and go record the match instead of the stupid ring).
The match went about fifteen minutes and they told a decent story with Gresham working over Cody’s arm. Like in Silas vs. Stallion, Cody gave Gresham most of the match, but I couldn’t help but feel that in order for Gresham to feel like he’s really breaking out, the match needed to go longer. The finish looked great, but it still felt like Gresham was dispatched too easily for someone who is supposed to be this young star about to break out.

BULLET CLUB (Adam Page, the Young Bucks, & Marty Scurll) vs. THE KILLER ELITE SQUAD & THE KINGDOM (w/T.K. O’Ryan)- 7.25/10
Kind of exactly what you’d expect.

This was another mostly dull show from ROH. Many of the matches disappointed, and the ones that overachieved did not do so to a level that made up for the disappointment. Not having The Briscoes was definitely a blow to the show, and took a lot of energy out of the main event, and that was beyond ROH’s control, but such things can be overlooked if a show does something to move storylines along, and this one did diddly-squat.



STUPID ANNOUNCER QUOTES:
1. Ian Riccaboni- “This is the first time we’re seeing K.E.S., members of Suzuki-Gun in New Japan.”
It’s actually the seventh time we’re seeing them. We saw them four times just last year… and Ian called every single one of those matches.

[alexsmellzzz]

What'd you guys think about last night's show? I can't imagine many people watched it with NXT the same night. Those Takeover cards are too stacked and too good to watch anything else, no matter what your allegiances are.

Yeah... but that's the reason they go up on VOD. Sometimes this sort of thing just happens. It's not really a big deal unless it affected the actual live gate.

Idk man, a company like ROH is one that caters toward the, no offense, but it's the "wrestling nerd" crowd. And nobody from that group was watching ROH that night. Or they shouldn't have been, atleast. lol. VOD is useful for people who will watch it afterwards, but me personally, if I hear the shows were just mediocre, I'm not going to go back and watch any of that stuff. If that were the only thing on that night, however, I would have been watching. And I'm guessing I'm not the only one who is like that.

Live gate is more important for ROH's bottom line, but they definitely want to have as many eyes on the product as possible.

[alexsmellzzz]

I'll be at ROH Vegas

I'll be there also. I hope they bring in some New Japan guys. The all-ROH cards haven't looked too great lately.

[Big Red Machine]

What'd you guys think about last night's show? I can't imagine many people watched it with NXT the same night. Those Takeover cards are too stacked and too good to watch anything else, no matter what your allegiances are.

Yeah... but that's the reason they go up on VOD. Sometimes this sort of thing just happens. It's not really a big deal unless it affected the actual live gate.

Idk man, a company like ROH is one that caters toward the, no offense, but it's the "wrestling nerd" crowd. And nobody from that group was watching ROH that night. Or they shouldn't have been, atleast. lol. VOD is useful for people who will watch it afterwards, but me personally, if I hear the shows were just mediocre, I'm not going to go back and watch any of that stuff. If that were the only thing on that night, however, I would have been watching. And I'm guessing I'm not the only one who is like that.

Live gate is more important for ROH's bottom line, but they definitely want to have as many eyes on the product as possible.

You're not wrong in any way. But what you're forgetting is that ROH had no way of knowing in advance that the show would be mediocre (I mean... I guess Delirious could have given stuff more time or told the wrestlers to go all out and try to do something that would get some buzz even though NXT was happening or something like that, but that's been a problem for a lot of shows). I'm also not convinced that Delirious thinks it was a mediocre show. He and Koff probably think it was great.

[Big Red Machine]

ROH State of the Art 2018: Dallas (6/16/2018)- Dallas, TX


TENILLE DASHWOOD vs. THUNDER ROSA- 5.25/10
Thunder Rosa jumped the bell on Tenille, which got great heat (a hell of a lot more than it does in New Japan when Suzuki-Gun do it in every single match). Tenille’s back got worked over but she made a comeback and pinned Thunder Rosa after hitting her with a running dropkick that looked like a lame version of Roderick Strong’s Sick Kick.
Women of Honor Champion Sumie Sakai joined Colt Cabana and Ian Riccaboni on commentary for this match. She said absolutely nothing of any note or anything that offered any insight into anything or anything that built anything up (although in that last case that’s because there isn’t anything to build up, which is a separate problem). The announcers knew this was not going well so they tried to get her talking but she didn’t. After the match the announcers emphasized to us that English is not Sumie’s native language and speaking it is difficult for her… which just makes you wonder they the hell Delirious had her do guest commentary? And it’s not like this is the first time this happened, either!

THE YOUNG BUCKS vs. THE BOYS- 4.25/10
The Bucks spent the early part of this match f*cking around with The Boys and making them look like idiots. Colt Cabana mentioned that the Bucks had referred to this as an “enhancement match,” which caused Ian Riccaboni to get all indignant and say things like “the Boys are in Ring of Honor for a reason!” and “they have a great six-man tag team record” and claim that they’re “recently coming into their own as a tag team.” Unfortunately, basically everything Ian- the lead babyface announcer- said, was total bullsh*t. The only reason they’re in ROH is that they’re Dalton’s manservants. Their six-man tag team record currently stands at 6-9, meaning they three out of every five matches, the best their six-man tag team record has EVER been was .500, so they haven’t had anything that can be called even merely a good six-man tag team record, never mind a “great” one, and the claim they are “coming into their own as a tag team” is so nebulous as not mean anything, but even if they are “coming into their own as a tag team” they’re sure not winning because their record as a duo in 2018 is 1-4, including a loss in a Handicap Match to Bully Ray, and their only win was over the comedy duo of Toru Yano and Delirious.
The reason I’m spending so much time ranting on this is because sh*t like this totally obliterates your announcers’ credibility. Announcers with no credibility who try to tell you that everything and everyone in the company is a huge deal when they so clearly aren’t is one of the most universally despised things about WWE, so if you are trying to compete with WWE- or even just prove yourself to be any sort of alternative- why the hell would you emulate this?
They had a very house-show match. You still got your flips and the finish (which I wouldn’t spoil) looked cool, but this very much felt like a throwaway match. And I’m not saying that the Bucks don’t deserve a night off every once in a while, but don’t give it to me on a card that looks so dull on paper and after putting out a similar offering the night before.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- pointless and annoying
Cody, Brandi, and Bernard the Business Bear come out. Cody says the Bucks deserve a round of applause as the “ambassadors of All In” and asks the fans if he should book Flip Gordon. The Bucks and the fans want him to and he teases doing it (which all of the idiots in the crowd actually fell for) before saying that he won’t. Throughout all of this Cabana is insistent that Cody is slighting the Bucks by referring to them simply as “ambassadors” for All In instead of “owners” and that Cody was not showing the Bucks respect as co-owners by saying that he was going to book Flip during his tease of doing so rather than saying that they (meaning the three of them) will book Flip, and that these are signs that Bullet Club is not fine.
WHO COULD POSSIBLY GIVE A SH*T AT THIS POINT?! It has been five and a half months of this crap and all that has actually happened is that Omega and Ibushi are back together, and that happened less than a month into the angle! Since that time, NOTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS ANGLE HAS MATTERED. Sure, there were some intra-Bullet Club matches but now Cody and Page are still in Bullet Club and Omega is still in Bullet Club and the Bucks are still friends with everyone even though Cody obviously knows that they were aiming for him at Supercard of Honor, not Kenny. All of that random melodrama between Marty and Kenny over the first weekend of intra-Bullet Club matches meant absolutely nothing once that weekend was over, the stuff with the Bucks and Omega in hindsight comes across like the Bucks being total drama queens, absolutely none of the sh*t involving ANYONE else mattered beyond the moment the match it happened in was over (for example, Chase & Yujiro randomly attacking the Bucks from behind at Sakura: Genesis and Cody doing so to the Guerrillas of Destiny the previous week at Strong Style Evolved, plus all of the sh*t after that ten-man tag at Dontaku). This whole storyline has been an overrated piece of nonsensical bullsh*t in which it is completely impossible to lay all of the events out in chronological order and explain how A led to B and B led to C… so why the f*ck would anyone expect me to care if Bullet Club is fine or not? It’s not even like this internal strife (or even the ROH-exclusive strife between Marty and Cody over the world title) is even causing them to lose matches! They just keep on winning and all doing their shticks just like they were doing in December, except now Omega sometimes team with Ibushi, too.

CODY, BRANDI & SHANE TAYLOR SEGMENT- ONE OF THE WORST IN ROH HISTORY!
Cody got the Bucks one last round of applause, then sent them to the back. He then announced that he was running for Senate in Texas in 2020. He then said that Brandi was going to talk to us all about “safety,” and in doing so, he referred to her as “the future First Lady of Texas.” Is he running for governor, too, or does he not realize that a senator’s spouse is not the first anything?
Brandi then announced that, in the interests of safety, she was using her “authority as campaign manager” to cancel tonight’s scheduled Cody Rhodes vs. Shane Taylor match. This sh*t is f*cking moronic and if this was done on WWE or TNA TV everyone would be sh*tting all over it. And didn’t Cody say that wanting to do serious wrestling instead of stupid comedy was the reason he quit WWE? Well what the f*ck do you call this if not stupid comedy, Mr. Space Clown?
Ian Riccaboni is 100% believing this bullsh*t, as when Shane Taylor came out Ian said that Taylor won’t be happy about this cancellation because he was looking forward to wrestling here in front of his friends and family. Meanwhile, I- for the first time ever- was saying “thank G-d Shane Taylor is here!” because I naively assumed he would put an end to this stupid bullsh*t. Instead Taylor called out the fact that when Brandi said the match was cancelled for his safety, it was really for Cody’s safety… so he still thinks the f*cking match is cancelled? How f*cking dumb is he!?
And now it gets worse, as we’ve devolved into Vince Russo territory. Taylor reveals that “the office” is dictating what the wrestlers “can and can’t say [about Cody] during promos” and says that “the decision-makers can’t wait to line up and kiss [Cody’s] ring.”
Then Taylor revealed that HE USED TO MURDER PEOPLE FOR A LIVING but gave that all up to become a wrestler for ROH. It has been a full year since The Rebellion disbanded, and in that time, Taylor’s “story” (if I deign to be so generous as to call it that, because it’s really just the announcers repeating one idea at us over and over again) has been that he is a mercenary for hire in ROH because he wants to make money to give his child a better life than he had growing up. This right here marks the first time that Taylor himself has said ANYTHING that even HINTS at that.
Brandi then grabbed a mic and called Taylor “low class” and says she’s so glad that she and Cody moved out of the dump that is Texas. Ian Riccaboni reacted with shock and said that this was bad for Cody’s campaign… which is actually an understatement considering that you need to live in a state before you can run for senate in it. So the Rhodes are stupid for not knowing this, Brandi is even dumber for making an obvious gaffe, and Ian Riccaboni looks like a clown, too, for going along with all of it.
More sh*t was said until Cody was goaded into announcing that the match was back on.
Cody offered Taylor a handshake, which Taylor accepted. Cody then kicked him in the gut. The bear grabbed Taylor to hold him in place for a clothesline but Taylor got out of the way and Cody hit the bear. Taylor then pitched Cody to the outside. You’d think this might have led into the match starting, but no. Taylor let Cody, Brandi, and the bear escape and they went on their way.
This had to be one of the single worst segments in ROH history. They wasted ten minutes for a segment that accomplished nothing while making Cody- the #1 contender to the ROH World Title!- Brandi, Shane Taylor, who we’re apparently trying to push, and lead announced Ian Riccaboni all look like clowns, and making the company look like they don’t give a sh*t. Can you imagine if a UFC fighter came out and claimed that his cornerman who is also his accountant used his position as his accountant to get the fight he was supposed to have tonight cancelled, and his opponent came out and said that his reason for getting the match cancelled weren’t the real reasons that the cornerman cancelled the match (when no one from UFC had ever said that the match was cancelled)? Dana White would run into the octagon screaming “WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING?!” at the top of his lungs. But here, not one f*cking person from ROH management ever came out and said anything to indicate to us that this cancellation based on a clearly ridiculous source of authority was anything but authentic! They didn’t even send word through the announcers!

Ian Riccaboni rambled on about Taylor goading Cody into un-cancelling the match by saying something along the lines of the following (the words are correct, but the order of the phrases might have been different) so Taylor that in the past “he wouldn’t have been past accepting money for his services but now he wants to do things the right way and we’re seeing that internal conflict playing out.”
No! We’re not seeing this conflict at all! If Cody had come out here and offered him a ton of money to not show up to the match or just lie down for him or something like that then that would be one thing, but that’s not what happened! What happened was that Cody just claimed that the match was cancelled- presumably meaning Taylor would get no money at all because he wouldn’t be having a match- and Taylor then goaded him into cancelling it so that he can have a chance win the winner’s purse. There is no internal conflict there (or at least certainly not one of the nature the Riccaboni described).

ROH WORLD SIX-MAN TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Kingdom(c) vs. Stuka Jr. Guerrero Maya Jr., & Atlantis- 6.5/10
The Kingdom jumped the bell on the luchadores. The match was only about ten minutes, which is disappointing for a title match, but if this wasn’t a title match I would have thought it was fine for its spot on the card. The luchadores did some cool stuff and The Kingdom kept up with them just fine.

FLIP GORDON vs. JAY LETHAL vs. MARTY SCURLL- 7.5/10
A great three-way, with Scurll picking up the win over Flip. Flip really does need to stop losing but I guess they can have Cody use Flip’s poor record as an excuse for not wanting to book him on All In. The reason him losing here makes some sense, though, is because it make him weaker, setting up for the…

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- dumb and boring
Bully Ray comes out to attack Flip Gordon with a chair, but Flip superkicks him. Flip then got the chair and tried to hit Bully with it but Bully hit him with a low blow. Was that really necessary? Was just hitting the injured man in the back with a weapon not heelish enough? Does he have to do the “I clearly stole it from Nakamura” low blow on every damn show? You’d think someone whose gimmick is grumpy old veteran who doesn’t like how the kids these days do their wrestling would understand that “less is more.” On a related note of something that needs to stop, can someone tell Ian Riccaboni to just call it a “low blow” or a “shot to the groin” or “going below the belt” or something normal instead of calling it a “Belvedere?” Not only is that a term from the 1980s that makes ROH sound horrendously uncool, but “Belvedering” is the specific act of sitting on your own nuts by accidents, which is nothing like hitting someone else in the nuts on purpose.
Bully then cut a promo telling Flip that “if you weren’t so concerned about being All In, you would have won your match tonight” and “seen me coming.” Neither of those things makes any sense, especially the first one (unless you think Flip is a moron who thinks that losing matches will get him booked at All In… but that can’t be the case or else why would he have been trying to win). Bully started to choke and torment Flip while droning on with his promo. He said Flip was a “nobody” while he was a big star in wrestling who had won many championships. Then, a few seconds later, he told Flip at Best in the World he was going to (among other things) “shoot on” him. You know... like beat him up for real, because usually pro wrestling is fake. Meaning that all of those championships he just bragged about winning to make himself seem impressive were fake. What a f*cking idiot. If you’re a wrestler and you are talking about “shooting on” someone in your promo, YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG.
Bully continued to choke Flip, then went to hit him with a chair… but then stopped a kicked him instead, because he’s a heel and he knows that hitting Flip with a chair will get him a pop so he doesn’t want to do it. Okay… then why did you pick the chair up in the first place? Picking it up just to throw it down and kick the guy makes no kayfabe sense. Meanwhile, no one came out to help underdog favorite babyface army hero Flip Gordon. Not Jay Lethal, who just showed him respect after their match, not his pals the Young Bucks, not Colt Cabana, who keeps shouting about how “someone needs to do something about Bully Ray” and not any of the other babyfaces. No one.

SHANE HELMS & DELIRIOUS vs. THE ADDICTION (w/Scorpio Sky)- 2.5/10
Rhett Titus showed up to do commentary, continuing his completely pointless, go-nowhere gimmick that he shows up uninvited and drunk to do commentary. Even while drunk he can tell that doing a gimmick match where Cheeseburger- a complete and total jobber- can earn a title match with just one win that isn’t even a pin on the champion is a stupid idea. The Addiction cut their usual pre-match promo burying the city the show is in. This time the fans mostly just cheered.
They did some decent comedy early on, although Kazarian’s ridiculous overselling annoyed me. He made some of the stuff Ember Moon does look reasonable. The comedy continued with Daniels and Delirious going under the ring and a Deliriousito emerging, and everyone just pretended that it was Delirious. You’d think this would lead to your standard Little Person comedy spots but instead they wrestled. The little guy looked really good, so anyone looking to book one should get this guy’s info from ROH… but if you weren’t going to do comedy with him in this comedy match then what was the point?
Deliriousito then went back under the ring and Delirious emerged, and they went back to just having a regular match. The Addiction got the heat on Hurricane until he made the Hulk Hogan comeback. The Hurricane then pinned Christopher Daniels cleanly in an ROH ring. After the match, Deliriousito came out from under the ring and celebrated with Delirious and Helms. If they had just done straight up comedy or straight up wrestling this would have been better, but the mix didn’t work. Also, the fact that this got less than a minute less than K.E.S. vs. Briscoes for the ROH World Tag Team Titles is infuriating.

ROH WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Briscoes(c) vs. The Killer Elite Squad- 8.25/10
Despite having just supposedly taken a shot, Rhett was much more sober on commentary during this match, and while he didn’t contribute much that was interesting, he at least wasn’t offensive as the third man in the booth. The match itself was awesome, with these two teams just being what they do best: beating the sh*t out of people and slamming them down hard. This was awesome. Show-savingly awesome.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- very good
Jay Briscoe cut a promo saying that they were going to kill Bullet Club at Best in the World… and he made sure that we all knew that he meant that literally. Then the Young Bucks came out of the crowd with chairs and slipped into the ring behind The Briscoes, and waited for them to turn around (like good babyfaces, which I guess the Bucks are?) before hitting them with the chairs. This was good build for BITW.

SHANE TAYLOR vs. CODY RHODES (w/Brandi Rhodes & Bernard the Business Bear)- 4.75/10
Rhett Titus left commentary, only to be replaced by J-Rock. Ian Riccaboni claimed the earlier segment had “raised the stakes” for this match. HOW? There was no stipulation beforehand and no still stipulation after it!
Taylor said he would become the Pretty Boy Killer again and destroy pretty boy Cody. They actually started to have a decent match with Taylor using his size well and Cody trying to chop down the tree by working over Taylor’s knee… and then they ruined it with this stupid dog and pony show ref bump bullsh*t, because Cody might be challenging for the ROH World Title on one of the three biggest shows of the year the very next show, but it’s apparently more important in Delirious’ mind to protect undercard go-nowhere dork Shane Taylor than to just give Cody a clean win in the promotion whose entire mantra has been that dirty finishes should be avoided whenever possible. The bear was stuck in the ring after the match so Taylor beat up.

PROVING GROUND INSTANT REWARD SIX-MAN MAYHEM MATCH: ROH TV Champion Silas Young vs. Cheeseburger vs. Adam Page vs. Punishment Martinez vs. Jonathan Gresham vs. Scorpio Sky- 7/10
Colt and Ian interrupted their coverage of the Delirious & Hurricane vs. Addiction match to clarify the rules of this match for us because “there has been some confusion.” Apparently in this match the winning wrestler gets a title shot right away no matter who he gets the fall on, unless Silas is the one who gets the win, in which case the wrestler who takes the fall isn’t allowed to challenge for the title until Silas loses the belt. This is quite the change from the way these things used to work, which was that you had to beat the champion to get the title shot, without any sort of “Defy or Deny” type of stip at all. Maybe I’m being ridiculous here, but I bet there would be a lot less confusion if they could keep the rules for this sh*t consistent. If you want to change the rules of a match you already have then GIVE IT A DIFFERENT NAME!
Anyway, Cheeseburger is such a joke that Colt Cabana was advocating a strategy for Silas of letting Cheeseburger beat him and then just obliterating Burger in the ensuing title match, as Silas undoubtedly would do.
The match was great, with Silas in particular having a great showing. This match made me really want to see Silas vs. Gresham but instead the finish we got was Page hitting the Rite of Passage on Cheeseburger but Martinez curb-stomped Page before he could go for the pin, then hitting Burger with the South of Heaven Chokeslam and getting the pin, thus earning an…

ROH TV TITLE MATCH: Silas Young(c) vs. Punishment Martinez- 4.75/10
Before the match really started, Martinez spent a long time staring Page down and making sure Page left the ringside area before engaging with Silas. I thought that was good little touch. These guys proceeded to have an excellent match for the five minutes or so it got, with Martinez winning the title, setting up for it to be on the line in his match with Page at Best in the World.
I really liked the fact that the title changed hands here because not only have Silas’ title reigns felt drab and pointless, while Page and Martinez feel like guys who can carry the company in the future and are at the level where they should be TV champion, but if we are to ever believe that the belt is going to change hands in one of these stupid totally random matches Delirious loves to book then a title does actually have to change hands in one of them, and this finally gave us that.
That being said, I have got to question the logic of booking this thing to close the show with. Even if I were to rate these two matches as one whole (which I chose not both to acknowledge how well Young and Martinez did in the time they were given and also because they didn’t really feel like there were any connecting themes or stories between the two matches) I would probably have only given it about a 7.75, which is fine for a main event but it still wouldn’t have really felt like one because pretty much no one in the match feels like a main event singles wrestler. Silas, Martinez, and especially Page can when you put them in there with the right build or with the right guy, but Gresham, Scorpio, and especially Burger don’t feel like anything close to main events. This felt like it was a bunch of third match guys in a main event.
Secondly, I think it was pretty clear on paper that Briscoes vs. K.E.S. for the tag titles was the most likely match to be the Match of the Night as well as having the least chance to turn out being bad, so that feels like the safest main event. Yes, this title change is the biggest news coming out of the show, but I actually think you lose something by having this go on after K.E.S. vs. Briscoes. Yes, the Briscoes vs. K.E.S. would have had a more predictable result, but doing this surprising TV Title change earlier in the show would put a speck of doubt in people’s minds that that the Briscoes vs. K.E.S. finish was a forgone conclusion. Plus, having the result be forgone conclusion has never stopped Delirious from booking these random title shots as main events in the past, so why start now?

This was a frustrating and very annoying show from ROH, but one that had several bright points as well. In addition to the matches that did deliver and the various reason I really liked the title change, I think this match has done a much better job than most of the Honor Club shows have done at building up the PPV, and of actually feeling relevant to the storylines. Hopefully the PPV delivers.


STUPID ANNOUNCER QUOTES:
1. Ian Riccaboni kept talking about how we would have “three title matches here tonight” as part of a “triple main event.”
The problem with this is that there is absolutely no guarantee that we’ll have three title matches tonight. If Silas wins the Proving Ground match then there is no TV Title match! (And while I’m at it, don’t call it a “triple main event” if it’s not the final three matches on the show. The third match on the card with five more set to follow it cannot possibly be a “main event.” This is something WCW was ridiculed for doing and even they only did it because they were forced to by the licensing contract for the Kiss Demon. ROH here is doing it on purpose.

2. When Cheeseburger got pinned by Martinez in the Instant Reward match, Ian Riccaboni essentially said “AHA! He pinned Cheeseburger! Targeting Cheeseburger must have been the game plan the whole time!”
We had seen absolutely zero evidence that ANYONE- never mind Martinez in particular- was specifically going after Cheeseburger.

[Reaper G]

I'll be at ROH Vegas

I'll be there also. I hope they bring in some New Japan guys. The all-ROH cards haven't looked too great lately.

As will I, but since I live in Vegas, I kinda have to.

New Japan guys are always welcome, but given the Hispanic market, CMLL guys are overdue.

[Big Red Machine]

As will I, but since I live in Vegas, I kinda have to.

New Japan guys are always welcome, but given the Hispanic market, CMLL guys are overdue.

I've been pretty amazed at ROH's failure to do this. Maybe the debacle at The Big Bang! gave them second thoughts about Lucha stars not really being that big a draw for American Hispanics? If that's the case, they really should give it another try because that was eight years ago.

[famicommander]

I think all three of ROH/NJPW/CMLL should be pushing Dragon Lee right now. Do whatever it takes to keep him from jumping to WWE. That kid is special.