Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

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Wilson
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by Wilson »

I’m probably not the most authorized person to say, but the house show split tag team singles matches have been nothing-matches for quite some time now. The matches don’t create implications on singles progression, are continually featured on the lower half of the card, do not make effort to individuate the wrestlers in any meaningful way, have inconsequential or disqualification finishes, and just feel like subpar bottle matches to delay tag team encounters.

And, with all respect to Matt and Nick, they are not draws themselves. It’s not terrible that they split them every once and a while, but, chiming in with Embracejg (which decodes into embrace . . . Juventud Guerrera? probably), it naturally makes the show inferior to big shows.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

Wilson wrote:I’m probably not the most authorized person to say, but the house show split tag team singles matches have been nothing-matches for quite some time now. The matches don’t create implications on singles progression, are continually featured on the lower half of the card, do not make effort to individuate the wrestlers in any meaningful way, have inconsequential or disqualification finishes, and just feel like subpar bottle matches to delay tag team encounters.
That is exactly what they are, and it's very frustrating booking. For "the deepest tag team division in the world" you'd think we'd be able to find a beter way to build up matches (like have the guys going into title matches or #1 contendership matches actually beat some other tag teams en route to the big encounter?)
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by DXvsNWO1994 »

I think there is some uniqueness to The Young Bucks being by themselves in a singles match or a multi-man match. There was an Evolve show a few years ago where they were split up into singles matches with AR Fox & Johnny Gargano. Plus, I think Nick Jackson was in that famous Four-Way from a Rey de Voladores Tournament during CHIKARA King of Trios in (I think) 2008 (I'm pretty sure it involved El Generico & Kota Ibushi). At the same time, however, their performances in Best Of The Super Juniors the last few years have left a lot to be desired. I guess I just see their singles work as a mixed bag.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by rohfan237 »

I don't really agree that it makes it feel inferior to "Big" shows, and even if it did, let's stop going with this "Well "X" show name used to be a big deal" line of thinking. If nothing else it immediately makes the show unique. They've been putting together whatever cards they want for whatever shows they want for years now. Usually just depends what city/event falls where. With that said, I don't really feel like ROH does that well of a job with their "Big" (Assuming a PPV here) shows to really distinct them from others. There have been house show cards better than PPV cards. The only real distinction with their "Big" shows has been NJPW talent.

The guys phoning it in or having lame stuff to work with booking wise is another issue all together. Especially with the likes of Bad Influence and MCMG, these guys are serviceable at best and usually doing just enough to get by, as do The Bucks a lot of the time. That's what happens when you invest greatly in the nostalgia train. It's about to bite ROH hard in the ass, if it hasn't already.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by Embracejg »

Wilson wrote:chiming in with Embracejg (which decodes into embrace . . . Juventud Guerrera? probably).
I am in fact, THE JUICE.

Observer said Chicago crowd was noticeably down this weekend to 500-600. That's around what AAW is drawing on a monthly basis here with lots of big-name talent (Zack Sabre Jr. and Pentagon Jr. have become regulars).

There was no major event which would draw fans away from the Chicago show, though running on a Friday here isn't a great idea. The travel from the city to Chicago Ridge is ghastly in Friday rush traffic.

Basically, ROH treated the show like a C-level event and the attendance reflects that. With another company offering a better talent lineup on a more frequent basis, ROH won't be successful unless Chicago gets treated like a major market consistently.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by Wilson »

Embracejg wrote:I am in fact, THE JUICE.
What a lark to be in the presence of, not the best one, not even the great one, but, the Juicy One.
Embracejg wrote:Observer said Chicago crowd was noticeably down this weekend to 500-600. That's around what AAW is drawing on a monthly basis here with lots of big-name talent (Zack Sabre Jr. and Pentagon Jr. have become regulars).

There was no major event which would draw fans away from the Chicago show, though running on a Friday here isn't a great idea. The travel from the city to Chicago Ridge is ghastly in Friday rush traffic.

Basically, ROH treated the show like a C-level event and the attendance reflects that. With another company offering a better talent lineup on a more frequent basis, ROH won't be successful unless Chicago gets treated like a major market consistently.
Asking ROH to practically never run a house show-y event for any given area is a really tall order. Of course continuously running unambitious events in the same market is of a bad idea, but practically no area is immune from the occasional weak show other than New York. The company probably had a rough idea of the turnout and what quality of show should be written in for the next one.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

I do think Chicago hasn't had a strong card or event baring the Global Wars tour in a while. It's a crowd i've felt wants and needs the big events or big matches, especially with ROH having such a strong history their. ROH's history though might well have been the reason why it has been slept on, as though ROH could count on it to be a strong crowd and draw consistently, unfortunately that dam seems to have broke and they need to start to re-build in that area. They have failed in a couple of area's so maybe going back to a Chicago with a strong event or certainly story might help that again.

I do believe that ROH needs to find a better pacing to promote their event schedule, GBH felt very rushed in promotion and lagging behind the PPV events and considering this wasn't meant to be a house show tour it could and should've been handled better. It's been a big learning curve for ROH this year and hopefully a lot can be put towards next year in creating bigger buzz at certain moments when it could do with it. If they can keep a strong group from this year as well adding to its roster with others like Rhodes, Ospreay, Scurll as well I imagine bring in a couple of strong talents from TNA then I can see cards being able to draw good crowds in previous markets that have done poorly.

I was wondering do ROH ever do a buy one get one half price sale for the PPV/TV weekends as I'm wondering if that would really help with drawing better crowds for there TV tapings.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

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BurningHammer wrote:I do believe that ROH needs to find a better pacing to promote their event schedule, GBH felt very rushed in promotion and lagging behind the PPV events and considering this wasn't meant to be a house show tour it could and should've been handled better.
Both shows were most definitely house shows. Other than the Supercard shows, anything that isn't a PPV is pretty much a house show or is something that will be repackaged as TV programming.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by monster mafia »

insider:

"For those who asked, the attendance over the weekend was said to be 500-600 in Chicago and 550-650 in Detroit. Chicago was down from the last few times the company was there and Detroit was back to it's usual levels.

For those who have asked for 2017 live dates, we don't have them yet but are working on them. The first 2017 PPV will be the ROH 15th Anniversary show, likely from Las Vegas as that has been the location the last several years. It would be awesome if they ran it in Philadelphia since that is where the company was born. I would even like to see them do a one night "throwback show" of sorts in the Murphy Rec Center if they could get in the venue, or at least hold some sort of celebration in that venue."
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Wilson wrote:
BurningHammer wrote:I do believe that ROH needs to find a better pacing to promote their event schedule, GBH felt very rushed in promotion and lagging behind the PPV events and considering this wasn't meant to be a house show tour it could and should've been handled better.
Both shows were most definitely house shows. Other than the Supercard shows, anything that isn't a PPV is pretty much a house show or is something that will be repackaged as TV programming.
This is the point i'm trying to make they need to make a better effort to differentiate them from house shows, perhaps making them IPPV's might help, I don't know if there is a delay service that is possible in todays age that might get over the issues of live streaming. I think it would certainly help certain matches say Champions vs All stars, it would make it seem a bigger issue than it just being on a house show.

I do like the idea of a Murphy Rec return, maybe bringing back some older names like Ki, Homicide, Punk, Maff etc or even introducing us to guys ROH has signed from TNA that were originally with ROH.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

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BurningHammer wrote:This is the point i'm trying to make they need to make a better effort to differentiate them from house shows, perhaps making them IPPV's might help, I don't know if there is a delay service that is possible in todays age that might get over the issues of live streaming. I think it would certainly help certain matches say Champions vs All stars, it would make it seem a bigger issue than it just being on a house show.
In terms of improving the product, that’s probably a valid argument, though I don’t think ROH really depends on VOD sales by any stretch of the imagination. ROH is a TV-based wrestling company. They want to sell PPVs, tickets at the gate, and merchandise.

Pacing for ROH is definitely an issue. Even as someone who posts on a ROH-specific forum, I find it difficult to determine what is actually the best way to follow the product: TV is a good way to keep an eye on the direction of the company until there are endless bottle episodes, PPVs are the critical story points until various Road To become more progressive than the big events, and VOD shows are wont to be supernumerary until characters receive better pushes there than elsewhere in the product’s broad consumption model.

Clearly the current strategy works well for them monetarily—thus it isn’t entirely broken—but a streaming service would probably change the tone of the company entirely and makes everything massively more accessible.

So what I’m really saying is that ROH needs to get New Japan to stop bogarting their sweet streaming tech and let ROHWorldButStreaming dot com take form.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

BurningHammer wrote:
Wilson wrote:
BurningHammer wrote:I do believe that ROH needs to find a better pacing to promote their event schedule, GBH felt very rushed in promotion and lagging behind the PPV events and considering this wasn't meant to be a house show tour it could and should've been handled better.
Both shows were most definitely house shows. Other than the Supercard shows, anything that isn't a PPV is pretty much a house show or is something that will be repackaged as TV programming.
This is the point i'm trying to make they need to make a better effort to differentiate them from house shows, perhaps making them IPPV's might help, I don't know if there is a delay service that is possible in todays age that might get over the issues of live streaming. I think it would certainly help certain matches say Champions vs All stars, it would make it seem a bigger issue than it just being on a house show.
Totally agree with this. I think SOTF would also be served better as a one-night tournament streamed live than it is as a two-night DVD/VOD show (unless you've got a REALLY great main event for night one).
I also think that GBH and Champions vs. All-Stars would benefit from being separated from each other (although stronger booking could pull them off in the same weekend and still make them both feel relevant).
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Big Red Machine wrote:Totally agree with this. I think SOTF would also be served better as a one-night tournament streamed live than it is as a two-night DVD/VOD show (unless you've got a REALLY great main event for night one).
I also think that GBH and Champions vs. All-Stars would benefit from being separated from each other (although stronger booking could pull them off in the same weekend and still make them both feel relevant).
Yeah, I think they do need to try and make more of Champions vs All Stars considering how they highlight it and want it to treated but then usually put it into a situation like a house show. I do like the concept as it can feed in well to feuds and make new ones so being on a bigger stage would certainly help it. I have no problem with SOTF being two nights but like you say stream it live and give it more significance, you could even go back to the Murphy Rec and create a similar situation to BOLA/Raseda and generate a really fresh feel to ROH. As Wilson says though ROH really needs to develop a similar product to NJPWWORLD, overall I just can't believe we have got to this stage and ROH is still scared or hasn't got the tech to create a better streaming service.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

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BurningHammer wrote: [. . .] ROH really needs to develop a similar product to NJPWWORLD, overall I just can't believe we have got to this stage and ROH is still scared or hasn't got the tech to create a better streaming service.
To set expectations, their office team is now ultra small and would never be able to build that in-house. Based on their previous attempts at outsourced streaming, they have every right to be scared of hosting (shoddy) live event streams.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by Big Red Machine »

BurningHammer wrote:Yeah, I think they do need to try and make more of Champions vs All Stars considering how they highlight it and want it to treated but then usually put it into a situation like a house show. I do like the concept as it can feed in well to feuds and make new ones so being on a bigger stage would certainly help it.
This right here. If you're you not doing this then what's the point of even having the match? You might as well just have a long match that isn't an elimination match so that at least then you don't have to have a bunch of guys get pinned. It's the exact same mistake WWE has made with Survivor Series, and as a result, the match never feels feels like it means anything so it by itself isn't enough to entice people to see the show the way SOTF is.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Wilson wrote:
BurningHammer wrote: [. . .] ROH really needs to develop a similar product to NJPWWORLD, overall I just can't believe we have got to this stage and ROH is still scared or hasn't got the tech to create a better streaming service.
To set expectations, their office team is now ultra small and would never be able to build that in-house. Based on their previous attempts at outsourced streaming, they have every right to be scared of hosting (shoddy) live event streams.
Oh I know that ROH has a small amount of people creating and developing ROH, and a lot of credit should go to the guys for what they do with it's limitations. My frustrations run I imagine have more to do with Sinclair and it's investment into ROH and it not having the ability to have a quality streaming source but I still feel that it should be an option and not to give up on it if that's what happened.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

Big Red Machine wrote:
BurningHammer wrote:Yeah, I think they do need to try and make more of Champions vs All Stars considering how they highlight it and want it to treated but then usually put it into a situation like a house show. I do like the concept as it can feed in well to feuds and make new ones so being on a bigger stage would certainly help it.
This right here. If you're you not doing this then what's the point of even having the match? You might as well just have a long match that isn't an elimination match so that at least then you don't have to have a bunch of guys get pinned. It's the exact same mistake WWE has made with Survivor Series, and as a result, the match never feels feels like it means anything so it by itself isn't enough to entice people to see the show the way SOTF is.
Yeah I completely agree with this, it's why I liked what happened over the weekend, it had a lot of elements going for it although I wouldn't of had the Briscoe's or both in there, especially as the haven't really had the TV development with the Bucks and Briscoe's yet. Your point about Survivor Series is something that I have been thinking for a long time, Survivor could be an event that really could add so much to the WWE but it's just no that intriguing anymore.
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by DXvsNWO1994 »

So updated ticket/seating chart info on some upcoming shows (Red seats are seats available. Light grey seats have been sold):

- Arlington doesn't seem to be selling well at all. San Antonio is doing a little bit better. Neither show has any announced matches, and both shows are next week:

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The upcoming UK shows are doing much better. Two of the three shows, as of now, have only GA tickets available (the order of the images below is Liverpool, Leicester, & London):

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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by monster mafia »

liverpool card not announced on the media,just the website

entire london card..not announced yet

sotf without young bucks and adam cole... no matches announced..that arlington show looks bad right now


roh need to hype the cards in time..
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Re: Ring of Honor Events Schedule Thread

Post by BurningHammer »

ROH has completely messed up the pacing for their events after ASX, ROH just hasn't had the time or put in the effort to hype/build these shows apart from the Silas title match. It's these little things that really annoy me about ROH, like the fact that they only announce the matches via the website and not via Twitter/Facebook, which is just ridiculous. If ROH want's to actually make their numbers they are going to have to put in a bit more effort, even the WWE heavily advertise matches, flyer, poster their events ROH just looks to limited viral advertising.

Also the ticket pricing for the TV tapings this week in insane, $50 for I think 4th/5th row is a lot especially when you have many sports going on at once right now in the US. ROH really should re-model their pricing structure to cope with this time of year. It's weird with ROH they were putting in a lot of effort to really advertise matches and create hype and build and the booking just didn't help any of that, now the booking is better but the their advertising has really slipped. All this without even contemplating the fact that TNA allows you to get in to their taping's for free I believe.

I'm surprised that the Leicester event is selling even that many, it was a ridiculous area to run show, considering the lack of any real buzz for wrestling in the city, county. ROH really should have and should picked a much better city or area to hold a show and to top it off the building itself is kind of rather random. Liverpool could be affected by PCW running the same night but hopefully there will be walk up that night. London is looking great and that doesn't surprise me considering there is a rather large appetite for wrestling in the area and people can travel easily from further outside and inner city. Also considering RevPro are holding the Global Wars tour a week or so before the numbers could be a lot worse.
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