What to do with Jay Briscoe? My thoughts..

[dudelove]

I think it's time to break up the Briscoes for good. Or at least for the foreseeable future. I think this would also be a good opportunity to turn make Jay Briscoe a main event level heel.

I'd like to see something like this...

Jay could have a "hit list" story-line where he singles out everyone who participated in that tournament. He could say that the locker room disrespected him by siding with Nigel and trying to win his vacated belt instead of facing him like a man. For example, I could see him interrupt a match with ACH and just beat the absolute shit out of him, bloodying him up. This should get the crowd all over him. Mark could run out and try to get Jay to stop. This could lead to a RUSH vs Briscoes match, booked by Nigel, at the next TV taping. Jay could pull the classic move of leaving your partner in the ring alone (an angle that I don't recall ROH has used very much), which would give RUSH the win and start the Jay heel turn on his brother.

Next, Mark comes out to the ring and demands Jay come out. The twist on this would be Mark actually admitting that it was a mistake to particpate in the tournament and he wants to bury the hatchet. Jay comes out but turns on Mark, just beats the hell out of him. His whole angle would be that he thought it was disrespectful for Mark to participate in the tournament to win "his" title. He's pissed that Mark apparently sided with Nigel in stripping him of the title (using Mark's participation as the logic in this). Mark refuses to fight him but Jay won't stop gunning for him because he's on "the list." This could lead to an unsanctioned Fight Without Honor with Jay coming out on top.

The "hit list" story-line could take some time, allowing Jay to solidfy himself as a singles star and main event heel. He could target everyone and eventually beat them, some in very heelish fashion, of course. This could lead to Jay getting a title shot while waging war against Nigel. He could even team up sometimes with Jacobs, not as a true partner, etc., just putting aside differences to totally screw with Nigel. Of course, this wouldn't work so well if the champ is a heel (i.e., heel Cole), but I'm sure if you gave it the slow burn it could work with the right champion in place. Megaheel Briscoe vs Elgin would be aweome.

So, finally... what to do with Mark? I like Mark and I think he's entertaining as hell, but I have a harder time seeing him as a singles star. I think it would be cool to see him try to "mentor" a younger wrestler, which could create an awesome new tag team, get someone else over, and make for some hilarious TV as Mark coaches a rookie. I'm thinking Adam Page would be an awesome candidate for this... tobacco farmer and chicken farmer unite!

[canUsaythis]

I think it's time to break up the Briscoes for good. Or at least for the foreseeable future. I think this would also be a good opportunity to turn make Jay Briscoe a main event level heel.

I'd like to see something like this...

Jay could have a "hit list" story-line where he singles out everyone who participated in that tournament. He could say that the locker room disrespected him by siding with Nigel and trying to win his vacated belt instead of facing him like a man. For example, I could see him interrupt a match with ACH and just beat the absolute shit out of him, bloodying him up. This should get the crowd all over him. Mark could run out and try to get Jay to stop. This could lead to a RUSH vs Briscoes match, booked by Nigel, at the next TV taping. Jay could pull the classic move of leaving your partner in the ring alone (an angle that I don't recall ROH has used very much), which would give RUSH the win and start the Jay heel turn on his brother.

Next, Mark comes out to the ring and demands Jay come out. The twist on this would be Mark actually admitting that it was a mistake to particpate in the tournament and he wants to bury the hatchet. Jay comes out but turns on Mark, just beats the hell out of him. His whole angle would be that he thought it was disrespectful for Mark to participate in the tournament to win "his" title. He's pissed that Mark apparently sided with Nigel in stripping him of the title (using Mark's participation as the logic in this). Mark refuses to fight him but Jay won't stop gunning for him because he's on "the list." This could lead to an unsanctioned Fight Without Honor with Jay coming out on top.

The "hit list" story-line could take some time, allowing Jay to solidfy himself as a singles star and main event heel. He could target everyone and eventually beat them, some in very heelish fashion, of course. This could lead to Jay getting a title shot while waging war against Nigel. He could even team up sometimes with Jacobs, not as a true partner, etc., just putting aside differences to totally screw with Nigel. Of course, this wouldn't work so well if the champ is a heel (i.e., heel Cole), but I'm sure if you gave it the slow burn it could work with the right champion in place. Megaheel Briscoe vs Elgin would be aweome.

So, finally... what to do with Mark? I like Mark and I think he's entertaining as hell, but I have a harder time seeing him as a singles star. I think it would be cool to see him try to "mentor" a younger wrestler, which could create an awesome new tag team, get someone else over, and make for some hilarious TV as Mark coaches a rookie. I'm thinking Adam Page would be an awesome candidate for this... tobacco farmer and chicken farmer unite!

That would be cool idea but I would not see Jimmy being Heel as I would prefer Jimmy to be Face and Team with Steen for a bit. Apart from that it would be cool to see a Singles Heel Run for Jay

[DanielBryanson]

Booking Jay like that would make him a huge fan favourite, not a heel. How could you not cheer for a man, who's got taken away everything he had and ever wanted, getting his revenge? Jay is in the right here.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

get him back into tag competition, book Brisoces vs Outlaw Inc. grudge feud. Please not another singles run for Jay, his last one was pretty dull.

[Burnside]

It's not a bad plan, but like DanielBryanson said, Jay would be cheered as a face if booked that way.

Also, I don't need to see Jay vs Mark again anytime soon.

I'm not opposed to another Jay singles run if he would first get the shoulder fixed and then heal.

[dudelove]

I guess having the fans cheer him would be a problem. I tend to forget that the only real heels who get heel heat in ROH usually get it because the fanbase sees them as shitty workers.

Jay would be in the right here but taking that truth a d distortimg it to justify heelish tendancies is what usually makes the beat heels. Having Jay ambush and destroy fan favorites and cheating to win might help mitigate some of the cheers. I think in a case like this it's best to book the best storyline and let fans react however they want.

As far as the Briscoes are concerned, I have been watching ROH since 2004 and while I love the Briscoes I find myself very bored with them. I was looking forward to the Jay single run when he won the belt. I just hope they make the title strip and injury mean something. Having the Briscoes go back to tag teaming just seems like a step backward to me and a lost opportunity to try and create another main event heel (it might work, might not).

[bouncingskeleton]

Booking Jay like that would make him a huge fan favourite, not a heel. How could you not cheer for a man, who's got taken away everything he had and ever wanted, getting his revenge? Jay is in the right here.

Steen was a huge fan favorite when he was the "top heel" against . I don't think, necessarily, that being a "fan favorite" means that a wrestler can't be a heel. Not in the age of smarkieness.

[Burnside]

Booking Jay like that would make him a huge fan favourite, not a heel. How could you not cheer for a man, who's got taken away everything he had and ever wanted, getting his revenge? Jay is in the right here.

Steen was a huge fan favorite when he was the "top heel" against . I don't think, necessarily, that being a "fan favorite" means that a wrestler can't be a heel. Not in the age of smarkieness.

Steen vs Cornette was pretty much a fiasco, though. Cornette's contribution was booking horrible things like the lawyer skit, and Steen's contribution was not even slightly attempting to get over as a heel 90% of the time, instead going for the "cool" NWO heat that buries all the babyfaces.

[ROHFanAnthony]

Remember after Best in the World, Mike Johnson of pwinsider.com did an exclusive audio saying that the Briscoes were done with the company and that was their last match(yet Mark wrestled like a month later)? Their contracts were up and supposedly they were leaving for wwe developmental. Was that the reason ROH stripped Jay of the title(they were under the impression they were leaving)? I think not too long after BITW it was reported wwe wasn't even interested, so stripping him of the title and having the tournament seemed pointless.

Anyway, when Jay comes back they will likely do a storyline where he comes back saying he is the real champion because he never lost the title. If Adam Cole wins(like expected) I see him turning heel in the process and feuding with Jay for awhile.

[bouncingskeleton]

Booking Jay like that would make him a huge fan favourite, not a heel. How could you not cheer for a man, who's got taken away everything he had and ever wanted, getting his revenge? Jay is in the right here.

Steen was a huge fan favorite when he was the "top heel" against . I don't think, necessarily, that being a "fan favorite" means that a wrestler can't be a heel. Not in the age of smarkieness.

Steen vs Cornette was pretty much a fiasco, though. Cornette's contribution was booking horrible things like the lawyer skit, and Steen's contribution was not even slightly attempting to get over as a heel 90% of the time, instead going for the "cool" NWO heat that buries all the babyfaces.

Fair point. I still don't think that in a promotion like ROH it is possible to be a top heel without, at the same time being a fan favorite. Just my opinion, though.

I'd like to see AoTF mk. II though. Jacobs, Jay, and Mark.
Jacobs' and Jay's motivations are obvious, "Nigel won't give me a shot back in" and "Nigel stripped me of the Title," respectively. Mark's motivation could be something like "fuck Adam Cole" or even just "I support my brother."
This way, we could have a nice little Heel v. Heel feud. Have someone join Cole (Ciampa, perhaps? I think he'd make a fantastic heel, motivation "this gives me prestige and a shot at the title when Cole drops it." Strong, maybe? He's good as a heel and the motivation could be "Cole was right, only wins and losses matter. Or both of them, even) and have some great tag matches. Stay away from making this SCUM-lite by making the focus on getting wins by any means necessary (Jay/Jacobs/Mark's collective motivation being "I can still wrestle, Nigel was wrong"), rather than "fuck Ring of Honor, let's tear it to the ground and build Ring of SCUM" and just have a heel v. heel feud. Try and capture some of the shades of grey that early Steen v. Cornette had.

[Colt45]

Have him sign his walking papers along with his brother.

The Briscoes have run their course, what's left for them to do? They've beaten everybody. Not to mention Jay's title run was a flop, and probably the worst since Homicide. At least Cide got to drop the title in an actual match. I'm not hating but I think the Briscoes are floundering around wasting spots on an already short program. No disrespect to the Briscoes for they've put on classics, but those days are LONG gone. Give the spotlight to more newer, more exciting guys. It's what ROH should be about anyway.

[Burnside]

Fair point. I still don't think that in a promotion like ROH it is possible to be a top heel without, at the same time being a fan favorite. Just my opinion, though.

I'd like to see AoTF mk. II though. Jacobs, Jay, and Mark.
Jacobs' and Jay's motivations are obvious, "Nigel won't give me a shot back in" and "Nigel stripped me of the Title," respectively. Mark's motivation could be something like "fuck Adam Cole" or even just "I support my brother."
This way, we could have a nice little Heel v. Heel feud. Have someone join Cole (Ciampa, perhaps? I think he'd make a fantastic heel, motivation "this gives me prestige and a shot at the title when Cole drops it." Strong, maybe? He's good as a heel and the motivation could be "Cole was right, only wins and losses matter. Or both of them, even) and have some great tag matches. Stay away from making this SCUM-lite by making the focus on getting wins by any means necessary (Jay/Jacobs/Mark's collective motivation being "I can still wrestle, Nigel was wrong"), rather than "fuck Ring of Honor, let's tear it to the ground and build Ring of SCUM" and just have a heel v. heel feud. Try and capture some of the shades of grey that early Steen v. Cornette had.

I agree with you, but I think they really need to get away from any "heel is angry at the company" angles entirely. The problem is that most of the fanbase is also annoyed at the company, so a heel who bashes "Ring of Honor management" is automatically in danger of veering into quasi-babyface territory. Joe Koff is awfully easy to hate, Cary Silken is the opposite of cool, Kevin Kelly is an easy target, and Nigel is in the death spot of being the babyface authority figure who has to explain and sanction every dumb booking decision.

I think authority figures are extremely passe in wrestling and need to be toned down. 15 years of it has been enough. Find a new story to tell.

I think you can get over as a heel in Ring of Honor by being something other than (what Ring of Honor fans consider to be) a bad wrestler. But you don't get there by heeling on the company itself. You can do it by heeling on extremely popular faces (which unfortunately don't really exist in ROH right now, separate issue) or you can do it by heeling on the fans a la Mike Bennett or Matt Hardy. The "you nerds are all a bunch of fat virgins" stuff works pretty well if done correctly.

Jay Briscoe could definitely get over as a heel who hates the fans. The basis for it is how very, very different Briscoe is from 99% of ROH fans (who skew northeastern, nerdy, and politically to the left). I'm not sure they would really go down that road though - it would be great character, but maybe too edgy.

[Marketh.]

Fair point. I still don't think that in a promotion like ROH it is possible to be a top heel without, at the same time being a fan favorite. Just my opinion, though.

I'd like to see AoTF mk. II though. Jacobs, Jay, and Mark.
Jacobs' and Jay's motivations are obvious, "Nigel won't give me a shot back in" and "Nigel stripped me of the Title," respectively. Mark's motivation could be something like "fuck Adam Cole" or even just "I support my brother."
This way, we could have a nice little Heel v. Heel feud. Have someone join Cole (Ciampa, perhaps? I think he'd make a fantastic heel, motivation "this gives me prestige and a shot at the title when Cole drops it." Strong, maybe? He's good as a heel and the motivation could be "Cole was right, only wins and losses matter. Or both of them, even) and have some great tag matches. Stay away from making this SCUM-lite by making the focus on getting wins by any means necessary (Jay/Jacobs/Mark's collective motivation being "I can still wrestle, Nigel was wrong"), rather than "fuck Ring of Honor, let's tear it to the ground and build Ring of SCUM" and just have a heel v. heel feud. Try and capture some of the shades of grey that early Steen v. Cornette had.

I agree with you, but I think they really need to get away from any "heel is angry at the company" angles entirely. The problem is that most of the fanbase is also annoyed at the company, so a heel who bashes "Ring of Honor management" is automatically in danger of veering into quasi-babyface territory. Joe Koff is awfully easy to hate, Cary Silken is the opposite of cool, Kevin Kelly is an easy target, and Nigel is in the death spot of being the babyface authority figure who has to explain and sanction every dumb booking decision.

You're right about all except Cary. Fans love Cary for his years of keeping ROH alive and fan interactions, plus the guy just seems genuine about how much he cares. He doesn't work for ROH anymore yet is still there all the time, supporting. While I doubt "cool" is the first word to come to mind when describing him, he's definitely likeable.

The opposite of Joe Koff, really.

[Thelone]

Have him sign his walking papers along with his brother.

The Briscoes have run their course, what's left for them to do? They've beaten everybody. Not to mention Jay's title run was a flop, and probably the worst since Homicide. At least Cide got to drop the title in an actual match. I'm not hating but I think the Briscoes are floundering around wasting spots on an already short program. No disrespect to the Briscoes for they've put on classics, but those days are LONG gone. Give the spotlight to more newer, more exciting guys. It's what ROH should be about anyway.

I wouldn't go that far, but RoH should use the Briscoes to put younger/newer talent over, along with Lethal/Strong/Whitmer (even Steen). Put a guy like Young in a program with Mark, those two are hard-hitting tough SOBs so that should gel well. As for Jay, there's the whole "I'm the real champion" angle and probably a feud or something with Cole in a while so he's not even close to useless yet. The only thing I don't want to see is another tag run, elevate AR and C&C instead, they deserve better than being under/midcard scraps.

[Northwoods_Nightmare]

I really like the OP's idea. It's actually an interesting and engaging angle; something that's been missing in ROH since Steen/Lethal. But I would make a twist to avoid the "everyone cheers the heel" problem.

Turn Nigel heel. Make him become so obsessed with restoring honor that he interfere's in matches, is super strict about all the rules, berates referees, etc. Basically he becomes a self-righteous d-bag, and his overbearing rule-enforcement is costing fan favorites wins and trying to stop cool (although illegal) spots that fans want to see.
Then you can have a justifiably pissed off Jay Briscoe running down Nigel, taking out the people from the tourney, and facing a heel Cole champion (if indeed Cole is champion).

[XHC]

Have him sign his walking papers along with his brother.

The Briscoes have run their course, what's left for them to do? They've beaten everybody. Not to mention Jay's title run was a flop, and probably the worst since Homicide. At least Cide got to drop the title in an actual match. I'm not hating but I think the Briscoes are floundering around wasting spots on an already short program. No disrespect to the Briscoes for they've put on classics, but those days are LONG gone. Give the spotlight to more newer, more exciting guys. It's what ROH should be about anyway.

I like Dem Boys but it is hard to disagree with some of these points.

[Burnside]

I really like the OP's idea. It's actually an interesting and engaging angle; something that's been missing in ROH since Steen/Lethal. But I would make a twist to avoid the "everyone cheers the heel" problem.

Turn Nigel heel. Make him become so obsessed with restoring honor that he interfere's in matches, is super strict about all the rules, berates referees, etc. Basically he becomes a self-righteous d-bag, and his overbearing rule-enforcement is costing fan favorites wins and trying to stop cool (although illegal) spots that fans want to see.
Then you can have a justifiably pissed off Jay Briscoe running down Nigel, taking out the people from the tourney, and facing a heel Cole champion (if indeed Cole is champion).

You might be on to something. In fact, they may actually be going in a direction similar to this.

But regardless, I don't need to see another heel authority figure. Wrestling needs to move on already.

[bouncingskeleton]

You can do it by heeling on extremely popular faces (which unfortunately don't really exist in ROH right now, separate issue) or you can do it by heeling on the fans a la Mike Bennett or Matt Hardy. The "you nerds are all a bunch of fat virgins" stuff works pretty well if done correctly.

Jay Briscoe could definitely get over as a heel who hates the fans. The basis for it is how very, very different Briscoe is from 99% of ROH fans (who skew northeastern, nerdy, and politically to the left). I'm not sure they would really go down that road though - it would be great character, but maybe too edgy.

Wasn't that his gimmick at the start of the SBG show? Angry redneck asshole that just hated everything?

Anyway, that would make him a heel in the north and he would be SUUUUUUUPPPPPPPEEEEEERRRRRRR over (as a face) in the south. SUUUUUUUPPPPPPEEEEERRR over.
Which could be good, I mean he'd be over as a heel in the north and SUUUUPPPPPEEEEEERRRRR over (yes, I am having fun writing that) as a heel in the south for the swing they do every now and then (and that would let other wrestlers have room to play around with their alignment). But since they ignored a lot of edgy stuff they could've done with SCUM, that probably won't happen.

As far as your point goes about faces, Steen is (I'm gonna do it again) SUUUUUPPPPPPPEEEEEEEERRRRRRR over as a face right now, isn't he? Everything I've read says he's getting the largest pop of anyone. And he is absolutely a face right now, the most recent "Text ROH to T-O-D-A-Y" proves that (super comedy like, and cringe worthy).

[Burnside]

You can do it by heeling on extremely popular faces (which unfortunately don't really exist in ROH right now, separate issue) or you can do it by heeling on the fans a la Mike Bennett or Matt Hardy. The "you nerds are all a bunch of fat virgins" stuff works pretty well if done correctly.

Jay Briscoe could definitely get over as a heel who hates the fans. The basis for it is how very, very different Briscoe is from 99% of ROH fans (who skew northeastern, nerdy, and politically to the left). I'm not sure they would really go down that road though - it would be great character, but maybe too edgy.

Wasn't that his gimmick at the start of the SBG show? Angry redneck asshole that just hated everything?

Anyway, that would make him a heel in the north and he would be SUUUUUUUPPPPPPPEEEEEERRRRRRR over (as a face) in the south. SUUUUUUUPPPPPPEEEEERRR over.
Which could be good, I mean he'd be over as a heel in the north and SUUUUPPPPPEEEEEERRRRR over (yes, I am having fun writing that) as a heel in the south for the swing they do every now and then (and that would let other wrestlers have room to play around with their alignment). But since they ignored a lot of edgy stuff they could've done with SCUM, that probably won't happen.

As far as your point goes about faces, Steen is (I'm gonna do it again) SUUUUUPPPPPPPEEEEEEEERRRRRRR over as a face right now, isn't he? Everything I've read says he's getting the largest pop of anyone. And he is absolutely a face right now, the most recent "Text ROH to T-O-D-A-Y" proves that (super comedy like, and cringe worthy).

I think Steen is the most over of the faces, but has been fading since his title loss by virtue of not having much direction (doubly so now that SCUM is gone and he has no feud). For the past few months, he comes off to me as mostly bored and disengaged by the product, and maybe even depressed.

[Burnside]

Fair point. I still don't think that in a promotion like ROH it is possible to be a top heel without, at the same time being a fan favorite. Just my opinion, though.

I'd like to see AoTF mk. II though. Jacobs, Jay, and Mark.
Jacobs' and Jay's motivations are obvious, "Nigel won't give me a shot back in" and "Nigel stripped me of the Title," respectively. Mark's motivation could be something like "fuck Adam Cole" or even just "I support my brother."
This way, we could have a nice little Heel v. Heel feud. Have someone join Cole (Ciampa, perhaps? I think he'd make a fantastic heel, motivation "this gives me prestige and a shot at the title when Cole drops it." Strong, maybe? He's good as a heel and the motivation could be "Cole was right, only wins and losses matter. Or both of them, even) and have some great tag matches. Stay away from making this SCUM-lite by making the focus on getting wins by any means necessary (Jay/Jacobs/Mark's collective motivation being "I can still wrestle, Nigel was wrong"), rather than "fuck Ring of Honor, let's tear it to the ground and build Ring of SCUM" and just have a heel v. heel feud. Try and capture some of the shades of grey that early Steen v. Cornette had.

I agree with you, but I think they really need to get away from any "heel is angry at the company" angles entirely. The problem is that most of the fanbase is also annoyed at the company, so a heel who bashes "Ring of Honor management" is automatically in danger of veering into quasi-babyface territory. Joe Koff is awfully easy to hate, Cary Silken is the opposite of cool, Kevin Kelly is an easy target, and Nigel is in the death spot of being the babyface authority figure who has to explain and sanction every dumb booking decision.

You're right about all except Cary. Fans love Cary for his years of keeping ROH alive and fan interactions, plus the guy just seems genuine about how much he cares. He doesn't work for ROH anymore yet is still there all the time, supporting. While I doubt "cool" is the first word to come to mind when describing him, he's definitely likeable.

The opposite of Joe Koff, really.

Cary does still work for them. As part of the sale, he negotiated himself a job with ROH/Sinclair, doing Christ knows what.