Tyler Black vs Kevin Steen

[dudelove]

I keep up with the current ROH product, including TV and VOD/DVD. I've always been a completist so I own every ROH show on DVD save for some earlier ones that were out of print when I started collecting (mostly just a few from the first year). I've been trying to watch the shows in order, but I'm a bit behind. It takes a lot of time to faithfully watch both old and new ROH!

With that being said, I just finished the SALVATION DVD that featured the main event of Tyler Black defending the ROH World title against Kevin Steen. I wasn't watching HDNET back then (I'm only familiar with the show through the compilations), so I didn't know much about this storyline. All I can say is... WOW. What a fantastic match. One of my favorite Tyler defenses that I've seen so far.

Can anyone tell me some more about this feud? Commentary made some mention of some issues between the two on HDNET and I really like the angle of Steen trying to "save" Tyler. The after match backstage clip of a bloody Steen talking to Corino on his cellphone was golden. He wasn't upset he lost, he seemed elated. He was still covered in blood saying things like "he was amazing" and "we got him, he saw the blood and he... changed." This seemed like an amazing angle to me and I really like the rich storytelling, showing you can run a major program between two wrestlers (Generico/Steen) and have interesting subplots.

So... did this feud continue in any way? I don't recall how much longer Tyler was around so I'm afraid that it may have died in the wake of Tyler's WWE signing. Any insight or opinions folks could share on this match and/or angle would be greatly appreciated. I thought it was a great stuff!

P.S. if this angle ended prematurely I think it would be a good one to recycle. I could easily see Jimmy Jacobs in the Kevin Steen role, but I'm not sure who would be in the Tyler role. It doesn't necessarily need to be the champion. Jimmy would just need to single someone out, maybe a newer addition to the roster, to try and "save" them from ROH's "fickle" fans or something like that... blood feuds are something I really miss in ROH.

[Marketh.]

It pretty much ended at that point because of Tyler leaving, but yeah, it was really intriguing. I suppose the only thing it benefitted in its short existence was making Tyler's heel turn a little more plausible, despite its suddenness.

When people remind me of matches like that, I wonder why we can't have blood in ROH anymore. The SCUM feud felt lacking without a single big bloody moment to make the roster look in any actual peril. What's the actual issue? Hepatitis? What's wrong with just testing guys before planned blading? Sorry for the tangent, this thing's been bugging me lately. If you don't think blood has made for a large number of ROH's best moments, you're full of shit.

[dudelove]

It pretty much ended at that point because of Tyler leaving, but yeah, it was really intriguing. I suppose the only thing it benefitted in its short existence was making Tyler's heel turn a little more plausible, despite its suddenness.

When people remind me of matches like that, I wonder why we can't have blood in ROH anymore. The SCUM feud felt lacking without a single big bloody moment to make the roster look in any actual peril. What's the actual issue? Hepatitis? What's wrong with just testing guys before planned blading? Sorry for the tangent, this thing's been bugging me lately. If you don't think blood has made for a large number of ROH's best moments, you're full of shit.

Agree 110%. I think pulling back on it and using it sparingly gives it both the emotional impact the crimson mask deserves while also protecting the wrestlers. Hell, I recall even reading a recent interview with Nigel where he says bleeding shouldn't necessarily be banned as long as wrestlers are tested, right? Maybe I'm wrong but I could have sworn I read this somewhere, which shocked me because I thought Nigel was the biggest proponent or reason for ROH abandoning the use of blood.

[TYFDK]

It was a really fun little subfeud durin a time when ROH wasn't at its best.

Here's just a basic video from the feud, of Steen laying out Black.


(Boy, Hog really sucked sometimes)

There was another video from that time of after a show when Steen attacked Tyler, where Steen was bloody and was talking to the camera and said 'your blood, is in my blood.' Just creepy stuff, and it ruled. Damn shame it didn't get to play out more.

[dudelove]

It was a really fun little subfeud durin a time when ROH wasn't at its best.

Here's just a basic video from the feud, of Steen laying out Black.


(Boy, Hog really sucked sometimes)

There was another video from that time of after a show when Steen attacked Tyler, where Steen was bloody and was talking to the camera and said 'your blood, is in my blood.' Just creepy stuff, and it ruled. Damn shame it didn't get to play out more.

Thanks for sharing that clip! The other angle/promo you describe sounds awesome too. I'm just now in the middle of the Steen/Generico feud and I love Steen's character. If anything the creepiness factor just makes me realize that, no matter how much I love Steen, I do find his "face" character really boring compared to creepy, evil Steen. Steen licking Tyler's bloody face and screaming "I am the Antichrist!" in his face was just awesome. The whole match really elevated Tyler in my eyes, which was the point, and I think it's only a step or two down from the match that really made Tyler as champ (Black vs Richards).

[JigsawVs.Jason]

It pretty much ended at that point because of Tyler leaving, but yeah, it was really intriguing. I suppose the only thing it benefitted in its short existence was making Tyler's heel turn a little more plausible, despite its suddenness.

When people remind me of matches like that, I wonder why we can't have blood in ROH anymore. The SCUM feud felt lacking without a single big bloody moment to make the roster look in any actual peril. What's the actual issue? Hepatitis? What's wrong with just testing guys before planned blading? Sorry for the tangent, this thing's been bugging me lately. If you don't think blood has made for a large number of ROH's best moments, you're full of shit.

Agree 110%. I think pulling back on it and using it sparingly gives it both the emotional impact the crimson mask deserves while also protecting the wrestlers. Hell, I recall even reading a recent interview with Nigel where he says bleeding shouldn't necessarily be banned as long as wrestlers are tested, right? Maybe I'm wrong but I could have sworn I read this somewhere, which shocked me because I thought Nigel was the biggest proponent or reason for ROH abandoning the use of blood.

Thank god I'm not the only one!
I hate this new no-blood philosophy, especially the SCUM feud suffered extremely from having no bloodshed at all.
I know that sounds dumb, wanting the wrestlers to cut themselves for our viewing pleasure. But I have to stress what Marketh wrote: without blood some of the most defining moments in ROH history probably wouldn't be regarded as these epic moments. Just think of Nigel/Dragon at Unified. The match was awesome and one of the best they've had, but the reason I prefer that match to their techniqually better match at Driven was the emotional impact and the drama generated by the crimson mask worn by Nigel.

Same goes for the Age of the Fall debut at Man Up, would anyone consider that one of the best debuts ever if Jacobs would have held the promo in the ring under a hanging Jay Briscoe without the blood? I don't think so.
Like mentioned before I don't see an issue if the wrestlers who blade - only of course when it makes senes, for instance in an intense grudge feud - get tested before. When I think about it, the World title finals could definitely profit from one of the contestens bleeding, it would certainly precipitate a lot of drama.

Bottom line, there are so many great ROH moments that were turned into these memorable moments, due to the bloodshed and the drama resulting from it. I really, really hope ROH decides to stop that philosophy and use blood when it makes sense. Using it all the time is the wrong way to go in my opinion, but using it scarcly and in specific moments it could be a very effective tool for creating drama in a match.

[bouncingskeleton]

Not necessarily in the finals of the tournament, but it could be viable in any aftermath that happens. Blood needs to be used occasionally. No reason it shouldn't be, with the proper precautions. Especially with continuing to show the Rhett Titus blood stare in the intro. It builds up a false expectation.

[Marketh.]

As far as I can remember, I don't believe anyone's made Elgin bleed in ROH. What a way to make Cole seem like a threat if they did that.

[bouncingskeleton]

Didn't Davey cut Elgin a SitS? I could be wrong.

EDIT: I was thinking of a different match, nevermind.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

As far as I can remember, I don't believe anyone's made Elgin bleed in ROH. What a way to make Cole seem like a threat if they did that.

I agree with both you and bouncingskeleton: Cole winning the belt and busting him open after the match could solidify his heel turn and could create another memorable ROH moment.

[Marketh.]

Nah, I say do it during the match. If Cole attacks Elgin after, it's probably going to have the same impact with or without blood. Unless they go for something unexpectantly dramatic, which I doubt.

[Marketh.]

Not necessarily in the finals of the tournament, but it could be viable in any aftermath that happens. Blood needs to be used occasionally. No reason it shouldn't be, with the proper precautions. Especially with continuing to show the Rhett Titus blood stare in the intro. It builds up a false expectation.

Rhett Titus isn't bleeding in the intro, I was just watching it.

[bouncingskeleton]

Not necessarily in the finals of the tournament, but it could be viable in any aftermath that happens. Blood needs to be used occasionally. No reason it shouldn't be, with the proper precautions. Especially with continuing to show the Rhett Titus blood stare in the intro. It builds up a false expectation.

Rhett Titus isn't bleeding in the intro, I was just watching it.

He isn't? I thought he did. It could just be RoH's shitty production value combined with my shitty TV, making him look all bloody and intense.
I should really pay more attention to the quote in my sig, shouldn't I?