Death Before Dishonor 2022!

[Shanahan]

Cool… that didn’t take long after Forbidden Door. Wonder if it will be on Honorclub.

I've only seen Bleacher Report and Fite confirmed as running this ppv. Any replies to social media posts asking if its on Honor Club are ignored. SCOH was heavily promoted as being on Honor Club as well as Fite.

I completely get the new owners wanting to get as much money as possible from the ppv, but at least be open and transparent to ROH fans who were here before this year with regards to the status of live events on Honor Club.

Exactly, if they are done with honor club just say it and give people a pro-rated refund if they have yearly sub.

[Montana]

I'm hoping maybe they pull a last minute thing where, it will be on HonorClub too. But yeah, if TK doesn't plan to use it for live events, say so, and maybe adjust the subscription cost.

How about Gresham on Rampage; talk about some left field stuff. It would have made more sense the other way around. Seems like a quick decision to satisfy a PPV match/direction.

[Wavelet Transform]

How about Gresham on Rampage; talk about some left field stuff. It would have made more sense the other way around. Seems like a quick decision to satisfy a PPV match/direction.

They've done a lot to undermine Gresham - making him an afterthought to Samoa Joe at Supercard, killing off the feud w/ Lethal, barely featuring him, and now this nonsensical heel turn that pairs him w/ the complete dead weight that is TBE. Tony will 100% take the belt off of him at DBD, probably because great technical wrestling doesn't fit his ADHD, Russo-riffic vision for what a pro wrestling show should be. Whatever, happy to give my money to Terminus instead of AEW now.

[Montana]

How about Gresham on Rampage; talk about some left field stuff. It would have made more sense the other way around. Seems like a quick decision to satisfy a PPV match/direction.

They've done a lot to undermine Gresham - making him an afterthought to Samoa Joe at Supercard, killing off the feud w/ Lethal, barely featuring him, and now this nonsensical heel turn that pairs him w/ the complete dead weight that is TBE. Tony will 100% take the belt off of him at DBD, probably because great technical wrestling doesn't fit his ADHD, Russo-riffic vision for what a pro wrestling show should be. Whatever, happy to give my money to Terminus instead of AEW now.

Yea, i can see that too. Some of that could have been cause he was injured. The heel turn was just weird. Certainly feels like Ceasaro is taking that belt. I will say that ; Gresham did get some mic time on Rampage last week... and he did say you were going to see his face on TNT every week. Maybe they turn Rampage into ROH Rampage. Brain Cage cost Cesaro the match; leading to them feuding.

I must say, i think the original match was supposed to be Jonathan Gresham vs. Bryan Danielson. Think they were hoping Danielson would be cleared in time. Too bad we didn't get that. So far a good card. Just need to round it out.

[Shanahan]

Gresham turn really really pissed me off. If that happened under SBG banner….oh my god, the outrage would be unbearable.

[Montana]

Yes, 100% …

I get with new owners, and changes are needed/happening… this felt very throw away. I don’t think that’s what TK’s intent was, but probably not the ideal way to work it all out.

Guess I’d rather have guys like Ceasaro and FTR in ROH than guys like Alan Angels/ Preston Vance, the factory, etc. whomever the low end guys are on dark, that don’t get on Dynamite/Rampage.

[Wavelet Transform]

The Gresham turn makes 0 sense and leaves him beyond cold going into the ppv. They've done nothing to establish his motivations for the turn, which is a common problem w/ AEW. You could have easily done a promo here and there where Gresham expresses frustration about not getting TV time, people cheating to get ahead, etc... to explain aligning w/ TBE (same story they did in ROH in 2019). Or have Gresham turn after losing a hard-fought match. Instead, it happens randomly w/o any motivation. Gresham walked out on Lee Moriarty, who's a total scrub (in AEW). Who cares? Gresham's going to get no reaction and it's not hard to tell who's going to win when the dude's resigned to defending his belt on Dark and Claudio is winning Blood and Guts. I planned on buying the ppv, but this whole turned me off enough that I won't be now. Gresham will probably be fine in the long run, because he's awesome, but he's not a great fit for AEW. A large portion of the fanbase just wants to show up an do audience participation (Bay Bay, DMD, wave arms for Jungle Boy's song, etc...) and watch spots. Wish there was still a mainstream source for technical wrestling because the new AEW-lite ROH sucks.

[AnHonorableMention]

Gresham turn really really pissed me off. If that happened under SBG banner….oh my god, the outrage would be unbearable.

You know damn well it's because Hunter would have a great idea and forget what it was that should follow the heel turn. The SBG would have been buried threat is in fact buried. Stop trying to pull the salt out of the wound and place it on the company that chose to move forward.

Having said that, I'd rather see a heel undersized and pissed off about it while having great matches than a heel undersized and pissed off about it while having mediocre matches (Aries). I'd rather not see Brian Cage either or the two guys in the tag team who neither is ready. Tully with Gresh on his own works. The other 3 bring down the act, two because they need more time and the third because he's a fucking dolt.

[AnHonorableMention]

The Gresham turn makes 0 sense and leaves him beyond cold going into the ppv. They've done nothing to establish his motivations for the turn, which is a common problem w/ AEW. You could have easily done a promo here and there where Gresham expresses frustration about not getting TV time, people cheating to get ahead, etc... to explain aligning w/ TBE (same story they did in ROH in 2019). Or have Gresham turn after losing a hard-fought match. Instead, it happens randomly w/o any motivation. Gresham walked out on Lee Moriarty, who's a total scrub (in AEW). Who cares? Gresham's going to get no reaction and it's not hard to tell who's going to win when the dude's resigned to defending his belt on Dark and Claudio is winning Blood and Guts. I planned on buying the ppv, but this whole turned me off enough that I won't be now. Gresham will probably be fine in the long run, because he's awesome, but he's not a great fit for AEW. A large portion of the fanbase just wants to show up an do audience participation (Bay Bay, DMD, wave arms for Jungle Boy's song, etc...) and watch spots. Wish there was still a mainstream source for technical wrestling because the new AEW-lite ROH sucks.

Love that you've seen into the future for what ROH will be once they get to television/streaming. Use that seeing into the future for something more worthwhile than pro wrestling. To get that tv and streaming deal done you need marquee people, Joe, Claudio, FTR, etc. It's common business logic, they buy names they know. Gresham as a heel can start fresh and rebuild upward.

[Wavelet Transform]

Love that you've seen into the future for what ROH will be once they get to television/streaming. Use that seeing into the future for something more worthwhile than pro wrestling. To get that tv and streaming deal done you need marquee people, Joe, Claudio, FTR, etc. It's common business logic, they buy names they know. Gresham as a heel can start fresh and rebuild upward.

Yeah, when has the "common business logic" of signing WWE castoffs and pushing them over homegrown talent never not worked? We all of course agree that 2010 TNA is as good as wrestling gets and who doesn't fondly remember Bully Ray's time in ROH? Joe and Claudio are great, but neither seems like a marquee name after the parade of WWE castoffs that have been through AEW this year. Gresham is different, new (to the AEW audience), and massively talented. He likely will do fine as a heel, but that's in spite of the trash booking he's been given so far.

Why would anyone want to get behind the new ROH as it's currently presented? The champ is defending his belt on Dark, TV champ Joe loses to Cole in the Owen Hart Tournament, and Pure Champ Yuta is clearly in BCC to eat pins so Moxley and Danielson don't have to. Everything they've done makes ROH seem second rate when it would have been so easy to just make it be different than AEW. More technical wrestling, code of honor, pure rules, sports-based presentation, etc... just something to make it seem like more than content that belongs on Dark.

[Montana]

Love that you've seen into the future for what ROH will be once they get to television/streaming. Use that seeing into the future for something more worthwhile than pro wrestling. To get that tv and streaming deal done you need marquee people, Joe, Claudio, FTR, etc. It's common business logic, they buy names they know. Gresham as a heel can start fresh and rebuild upward.

Yeah, when has the "common business logic" of signing WWE castoffs and pushing them over homegrown talent never not worked? We all of course agree that 2010 TNA is as good as wrestling gets and who doesn't fondly remember Bully Ray's time in ROH? Joe and Claudio are great, but neither seems like a marquee name after the parade of WWE castoffs that have been through AEW this year. Gresham is different, new (to the AEW audience), and massively talented. He likely will do fine as a heel, but that's in spite of the trash booking he's been given so far.

Why would anyone want to get behind the new ROH as it's currently presented? The champ is defending his belt on Dark, TV champ Joe loses to Cole in the Owen Hart Tournament, and Pure Champ Yuta is clearly in BCC to eat pins so Moxley and Danielson don't have to. Everything they've done makes ROH seem second rate when it would have been so easy to just make it be different than AEW. More technical wrestling, code of honor, pure rules, sports-based presentation, etc... just something to make it seem like more than content that belongs on Dark.

Why couldn't or wouldn't they just turn Gresham heel AFTER Death Before Dishonor. Build up to it for a couple weeks. As other have said, it makes no sense to do it now. Wavelet is unfortunately pretty spot on with how it's presented at the moment. I think its OK to be semi-second rate the moment; because they stil need to focus on AEW first and ROH doesn't have it's own show now.... but could do a better job at hyping up the return of ROH. They put together a really good PPV card thus far. Just need to round it out. Asking 40$ for it, is kinda of a lot when it doesn't feel that different than say a Dynamite. It feels like most of these guys are AEW wrestlers, just wrestling a match in ROH. Hard to fully invest, at the moment. AEW dark this week, which i haven't watched yet; feels close to what an ROH episode could look like with a pure rules match, and Gresham, Martinez, Deeb, Takeshita, Garcia on it.

I do agree with Honorable mention; kinda gotta wait until what we see with their TV/Streaming product before throwing in the towel. I hope we get somewhat of a brand split soon ; with two different products being presented. There's plenty of talent to make ROH great again; without hindering AEW.

[Montana]

The countdown to ROH Death Before Dishonor was really good. I'm patiently waiting what else will be announced. I assume Takeshita will be there, as the fans online seem to really be rooting for him to be a big part of the new ROH, which i'm 100% cool with.

Imagine with get a mix of Brian Cage, Colt Cabana, Gates of Agony (Pre-show) Tony Nese,Dalton Castle, Lee Moriarty, and maybe someone like Santana. Kinda feel like we get one more banger match with like Pac vs. someone from House of Black. Would be awesome to see guys like Deppen/Dragon Lee and a few other former ROH talents on the card too.

[AnHonorableMention]

Love that you've seen into the future for what ROH will be once they get to television/streaming. Use that seeing into the future for something more worthwhile than pro wrestling. To get that tv and streaming deal done you need marquee people, Joe, Claudio, FTR, etc. It's common business logic, they buy names they know. Gresham as a heel can start fresh and rebuild upward.

Yeah, when has the "common business logic" of signing WWE castoffs and pushing them over homegrown talent never not worked? We all of course agree that 2010 TNA is as good as wrestling gets and who doesn't fondly remember Bully Ray's time in ROH? Joe and Claudio are great, but neither seems like a marquee name after the parade of WWE castoffs that have been through AEW this year. Gresham is different, new (to the AEW audience), and massively talented. He likely will do fine as a heel, but that's in spite of the trash booking he's been given so far.

Why would anyone want to get behind the new ROH as it's currently presented? The champ is defending his belt on Dark, TV champ Joe loses to Cole in the Owen Hart Tournament, and Pure Champ Yuta is clearly in BCC to eat pins so Moxley and Danielson don't have to. Everything they've done makes ROH seem second rate when it would have been so easy to just make it be different than AEW. More technical wrestling, code of honor, pure rules, sports-based presentation, etc... just something to make it seem like more than content that belongs on Dark.

Joe lost to TOP GUY Adam Cole, a 3x ROH World Champ. Yuta is in BCC to grow into a name via association. Competitive ass kicking matches with Mox & Bryan, is building a guy.

The Pure Title was dormant for 12 years. ROH existed for 8 years without that belt. Let's stop conjuring up this rhetoric that belt mattered most of its existence anyway.

[AnHonorableMention]

Love that you've seen into the future for what ROH will be once they get to television/streaming. Use that seeing into the future for something more worthwhile than pro wrestling. To get that tv and streaming deal done you need marquee people, Joe, Claudio, FTR, etc. It's common business logic, they buy names they know. Gresham as a heel can start fresh and rebuild upward.

Yeah, when has the "common business logic" of signing WWE castoffs and pushing them over homegrown talent never not worked? We all of course agree that 2010 TNA is as good as wrestling gets and who doesn't fondly remember Bully Ray's time in ROH? Joe and Claudio are great, but neither seems like a marquee name after the parade of WWE castoffs that have been through AEW this year. Gresham is different, new (to the AEW audience), and massively talented. He likely will do fine as a heel, but that's in spite of the trash booking he's been given so far.

Why would anyone want to get behind the new ROH as it's currently presented? The champ is defending his belt on Dark, TV champ Joe loses to Cole in the Owen Hart Tournament, and Pure Champ Yuta is clearly in BCC to eat pins so Moxley and Danielson don't have to. Everything they've done makes ROH seem second rate when it would have been so easy to just make it be different than AEW. More technical wrestling, code of honor, pure rules, sports-based presentation, etc... just something to make it seem like more than content that belongs on Dark.

Why couldn't or wouldn't they just turn Gresham heel AFTER Death Before Dishonor. Build up to it for a couple weeks. As other have said, it makes no sense to do it now. Wavelet is unfortunately pretty spot on with how it's presented at the moment. I think its OK to be semi-second rate the moment; because they stil need to focus on AEW first and ROH doesn't have it's own show now.... but could do a better job at hyping up the return of ROH. They put together a really good PPV card thus far. Just need to round it out. Asking 40$ for it, is kinda of a lot when it doesn't feel that different than say a Dynamite. It feels like most of these guys are AEW wrestlers, just wrestling a match in ROH. Hard to fully invest, at the moment. AEW dark this week, which i haven't watched yet; feels close to what an ROH episode could look like with a pure rules match, and Gresham, Martinez, Deeb, Takeshita, Garcia on it.

I do agree with Honorable mention; kinda gotta wait until what we see with their TV/Streaming product before throwing in the towel. I hope we get somewhat of a brand split soon ; with two different products being presented. There's plenty of talent to make ROH great again; without hindering AEW.

What does waiting accomplish? He's wrestling a babyface on PPV, not only that, a top babyface. An arguably one of the top babyfaces in all of AEW at present. He's a poor promo, and Claudio is gonna get an incredible match on PPV with 5 strong matches and more to be announced.

There's zero patience or understanding in how hard Tony has to work to get this company going. While I'm privy to some things the public doesn't know I am also very much in the dark on a lot but I can bet my life TK has more passion to turn this into a success and stand out product than anyone at SBG had for the duration of their ownership.

[AnHonorableMention]

The countdown to ROH Death Before Dishonor was really good. I'm patiently waiting what else will be announced. I assume Takeshita will be there, as the fans online seem to really be rooting for him to be a big part of the new ROH, which i'm 100% cool with.

Imagine with get a mix of Brian Cage, Colt Cabana, Gates of Agony (Pre-show) Tony Nese,Dalton Castle, Lee Moriarty, and maybe someone like Santana. Kinda feel like we get one more banger match with like Pac vs. someone from House of Black. Would be awesome to see guys like Deppen/Dragon Lee and a few other former ROH talents on the card too.

Santana is out for the forseable future with a torn ACL.

[Montana]

Yeah, when has the "common business logic" of signing WWE castoffs and pushing them over homegrown talent never not worked? We all of course agree that 2010 TNA is as good as wrestling gets and who doesn't fondly remember Bully Ray's time in ROH? Joe and Claudio are great, but neither seems like a marquee name after the parade of WWE castoffs that have been through AEW this year. Gresham is different, new (to the AEW audience), and massively talented. He likely will do fine as a heel, but that's in spite of the trash booking he's been given so far.

Why would anyone want to get behind the new ROH as it's currently presented? The champ is defending his belt on Dark, TV champ Joe loses to Cole in the Owen Hart Tournament, and Pure Champ Yuta is clearly in BCC to eat pins so Moxley and Danielson don't have to. Everything they've done makes ROH seem second rate when it would have been so easy to just make it be different than AEW. More technical wrestling, code of honor, pure rules, sports-based presentation, etc... just something to make it seem like more than content that belongs on Dark.

Why couldn't or wouldn't they just turn Gresham heel AFTER Death Before Dishonor. Build up to it for a couple weeks. As other have said, it makes no sense to do it now. Wavelet is unfortunately pretty spot on with how it's presented at the moment. I think its OK to be semi-second rate the moment; because they stil need to focus on AEW first and ROH doesn't have it's own show now.... but could do a better job at hyping up the return of ROH. They put together a really good PPV card thus far. Just need to round it out. Asking 40$ for it, is kinda of a lot when it doesn't feel that different than say a Dynamite. It feels like most of these guys are AEW wrestlers, just wrestling a match in ROH. Hard to fully invest, at the moment. AEW dark this week, which i haven't watched yet; feels close to what an ROH episode could look like with a pure rules match, and Gresham, Martinez, Deeb, Takeshita, Garcia on it.

I do agree with Honorable mention; kinda gotta wait until what we see with their TV/Streaming product before throwing in the towel. I hope we get somewhat of a brand split soon ; with two different products being presented. There's plenty of talent to make ROH great again; without hindering AEW.

What does waiting accomplish? He's wrestling a babyface on PPV, not only that, a top babyface. An arguably one of the top babyfaces in all of AEW at present. He's a poor promo, and Claudio is gonna get an incredible match on PPV with 5 strong matches and more to be announced.

There's zero patience or understanding in how hard Tony has to work to get this company going. While I'm privy to some things the public doesn't know I am also very much in the dark on a lot but I can bet my life TK has more passion to turn this into a success and stand out product than anyone at SBG had for the duration of their ownership.

What does waiting accomplish? Telling the story of who he is and why he’s turning. It was one of the worst turns in recent memory. You can’t defend it. He simply turned for one match. They should have just done a face vs face honorable match, then build in some reason for him to go heel and join Tully.

Gresham a poor promo? He’s wrestling Claudio who has a non-existent promo.

Hmmm patience, that’s why I said we have to wait and see what the tv/streaming product is. Clearly most people on here don’t like Dark/elevation, and just don’t like what’s been presented so far. To be fair , this is place is such a small fraction of fans, it really doesn’t matter that much, but not everyone loves what they’ve seen thus far.


Tracking Santana is out.

Idk if it’s official yet, but looks like it could be Righteous vs. Dalton and the Boys at DBD for the trios belts. That’s kind of surprising given how many existing trios are in AEW. I kinda figured they may still use those trios belts, as they’ve kept the Righteous listed as champs.

[AnHonorableMention]

Why couldn't or wouldn't they just turn Gresham heel AFTER Death Before Dishonor. Build up to it for a couple weeks. As other have said, it makes no sense to do it now. Wavelet is unfortunately pretty spot on with how it's presented at the moment. I think its OK to be semi-second rate the moment; because they stil need to focus on AEW first and ROH doesn't have it's own show now.... but could do a better job at hyping up the return of ROH. They put together a really good PPV card thus far. Just need to round it out. Asking 40$ for it, is kinda of a lot when it doesn't feel that different than say a Dynamite. It feels like most of these guys are AEW wrestlers, just wrestling a match in ROH. Hard to fully invest, at the moment. AEW dark this week, which i haven't watched yet; feels close to what an ROH episode could look like with a pure rules match, and Gresham, Martinez, Deeb, Takeshita, Garcia on it.

I do agree with Honorable mention; kinda gotta wait until what we see with their TV/Streaming product before throwing in the towel. I hope we get somewhat of a brand split soon ; with two different products being presented. There's plenty of talent to make ROH great again; without hindering AEW.

What does waiting accomplish? He's wrestling a babyface on PPV, not only that, a top babyface. An arguably one of the top babyfaces in all of AEW at present. He's a poor promo, and Claudio is gonna get an incredible match on PPV with 5 strong matches and more to be announced.

There's zero patience or understanding in how hard Tony has to work to get this company going. While I'm privy to some things the public doesn't know I am also very much in the dark on a lot but I can bet my life TK has more passion to turn this into a success and stand out product than anyone at SBG had for the duration of their ownership.

What does waiting accomplish? Telling the story of who he is and why he’s turning. It was one of the worst turns in recent memory. You can’t defend it. He simply turned for one match. They should have just done a face vs face honorable match, then build in some reason for him to go heel and join Tully.

Gresham a poor promo? He’s wrestling Claudio who has a non-existent promo.

Hmmm patience, that’s why I said we have to wait and see what the tv/streaming product is. Clearly most people on here don’t like Dark/elevation, and just don’t like what’s been presented so far. To be fair , this is place is such a small fraction of fans, it really doesn’t matter that much, but not everyone loves what they’ve seen thus far.


Tracking Santana is out.

Idk if it’s official yet, but looks like it could be Righteous vs. Dalton and the Boys at DBD for the trios belts. That’s kind of surprising given how many existing trios are in AEW. I kinda figured they may still use those trios belts, as they’ve kept the Righteous listed as champs.

He is a champion, who will enlist the sage wisdom of noted all time great win at all costs guy Tully Blanchard. The story is as old as time, and is in fact something many champions do once they beat all known challengers. I absolutely think it was the right call and he's better off as a heel when he's got a vast need for an aid in personality. Claudio is a fine enough promo. He speaks 6 or 7 languages fluently. He has William Regal to talk for him if needed. His promo stuff, oddly enough was never a talking point crutch until he left ROH for WWE in 2011.

This forum is a culture of acceptance of the mediocre to bad SBG product of 2011-2022. 11 years of mediocre. Taking great talents and making them mean less.

The six man tag sounds awful. Zero Hour to be honest sounds awful, and I'll be doing other things during that time frame. PPV itself is pretty damn loaded.

[Shanahan]

I can count on 1 hand the people who liked or thought Gresham heel turn made sense & I’m not surprised one of them is you.

[indyfan]

I can count on 1 hand the people who liked or thought Gresham heel turn made sense & I’m not surprised one of them is you.

If it happened while under SBG, he would of hated it. We all know it too.

The turn was stupid. plain and simple.

Gresham should win this match to help further establish him. Then have Claudio beat him at Final Battle

Gresham is a much better promo than Claudio. its not even comparable

[AnHonorableMention]

I can count on 1 hand the people who liked or thought Gresham heel turn made sense & I’m not surprised one of them is you.

Considering how many fuck ups ROH had during the previous 11 years counting to 5 shouldn't be that hard.