Death Before Dishonor 2022!

[Montana]

Wow, i guess Gresham was/is just as pissed if not more than the fans. Seemed like a pretty professional guy; and maybe it just all added up for him. I'm guessing a lot of it was around him turning heel; and just how he's been presented to AEW. Hopefully he gives it some time and seeing the direction of where ROH is going and hopefully fit in. Otherwise; Impact would be a great spot for him now; but hate to see him burn that bridge.

Too bad we never got a proper Gresham world title run and ended like this; but that's partly SBG and TK fault; but also circumstance.

I like Claudio; but at least build him up as a title contender. Just feels like they gifted him the belt. That may not bother AEW fans; but i don't see ROH fans thrilled or excited about his run yet. (I think we mostly get it, bc he's a bigger name/draw)

Look at Josh Woods; and Jay lethal too; most of the old ROH core has been placed in a low tier. Brody King at least is starting to make some noise. DanHausen fits well with AEW. Not sure what kinda of communication Tony has had with these wrestlers anymore; but Gresham isn't the big fish in a small pond anymore. Personally i wouldn't be using the acts like the Gun Club more than guys like Lethal/Gresham/Woods; but that's TK's call. He's got an ocean of wrestlers; and picks and chooses when to use them and elevate them.

[monster mafia]

at least claudio is a roh guy and a fantastic wreslter, i hope roh soon find his own destiny, tv show, roster, etc.

[Wavelet Transform]

So the best approach is to cut into the World title match?

It was the shortest match on the PPV. The womens title match went almost 18 mins. You telling me they couldn’t of went 13 and gave few more mins to world title. It’s a joke.

agree 100%

Same.

Good for Gresham. Guy deserves way more than he's gotten from AEW. It's an absolute joke when a world champ is wrestling on the C-show and his opponent is prominently featured on the flagship show. The whole ppv was predictable, dogshit booking: world title change in a 12 minute match that opens the show, 6 man titles on a joke team (likely so that they can immediately move them to TBE / the Embassy at the next show), killed off the Briscoes so that FTR can be kept strong to lose to the Young Bucks, Satnam Singh, prominently featuring the Trustbusters even though they've got one of the deepest rosters ever, etc... Two shows straight of squashing homegrown ROH talent for what? Until Tiny is over his obsession with showing that he has the best action figure set roster, I'm done with ROH.

Gresham might also have seen the writing on the wall for how he'll fare in front of an AEW crowd. The guy is trying to put on long, intricate, detailed technical wrestling matches and the vast majority of the AEW fanbase doesn't have the attention span for it. The AEW fanbase is like a supersized version of the '17-'18 ROH fanbase that stopped following the company when the elite left. They want audience participation, spotfests, and crazy stunts. We were in attendance at Full Gear last year and you could hear a pin drop in the arena during Danielson's match until he started doing the "Yes" kicks. AEW shows can be a lot of fun, but it's just not the place for someone like Gresham. Credit to him for standing up for himself and pursuing his vision of wrestling without compromise.

[Wavelet Transform]

Some Gresham quotes from a recent interview (https://wrestlepurists.com/jonathan-gre ... -dishonor/):

On what he feels is different from the likes of WWE, AEW and IMPACT Wrestling:
“Yeah man this is like what I believe. Like, you’ve got all these different genres of movies but now when I watch wrestling its like there really isn’t anything different. When you look from WWE, to AEW, to IMPACT, there’s really not a lot of real difference to me. Just the aesthetic of how its presented to you.”

On what each promotion could do to separate themselves from one another:
“There’s not a different rule set, like when you look at the UFC and what K-1 was, they would go balls out in K-1, but a lot of that stuff isn’t allowed in UFC. So I think a change of rule set, even if its just a division or just a company as a whole, I just think something needs to change so that was a genuine thing that I was trying to push in Ring Of Honor to help differentiate Ring Of Honor from everything else. I truly believe that ROH had the potential to do that, but I just believe the people in charge are… I don’t know, too afraid to just try something different. It’s like, this thing works, keep doing it.”

On potentially changing up his character to fit a certain promotion or situation:
“It definitely can. But the number one thing, well it’s two things that kinda’ go into it. One is just, to me, a fact that for something like that to get over, the individual has to be given the stage and oftentimes there is a lot of people in locker rooms that can do these different things but the promoters don’t really give them the stage to do it, so it’s best to just get in line and to be honest, a lot of guys are just happy with collecting a paycheck you know? A lot of guys can’t do anything else, or they spent so many years trying to become a wrestler, they finally got to TV and it’s like ‘I’m just gonna ride this out as long as possible, I might not be doing what I enjoy or love but I’m getting paid’ you know? Some people are okay with that, some people aren’t.”

On being a Black technical wrestler and not following some of the stereotypes for a black wrestler:
“It bothers me that you can have White guy no.1 with no character be great, but then you’ve got Black guy, same. “Oh he needs a character” But why? Why can’t he just be a good wrestler? You’ve gotta be so much more than the other guy that’s World Champion, doesnt have a character, he’s good on the mic, sure, but he doesn’t do anything other than wristlocks, hammerlocks and some kicks. But Black guy that does the same thing, I need a fucking character, I need all this extra stuff, like thats just the thing.”

Given all this, easy to see why he'd be unhappy and willing to walk.

[BurningHammer]

I think this where control of your own self as a wrestler and a booker with ideas has to come to some consensus. I understand Gresham has worked hard to create his own dynamic, personality. That though maybe isn’t how Khan saw how Gresham can or should be in his version of ROH and that is also a bookers prerogative. I personally didn’t agree with the direction of Gresham like I do for others but for Gresham to be as he was on the PPV and with Khan that isn’t the way to behave either.

[AnHonorableMention]

The Austin Aries Syndrome excusers are something. Can't compliment the great show, only focused on the Sinclair Champion having a temper tantrum. Sad.

[indyfan]

It was a great show....with an ugly stain of burial of Gresham. whos a better wrestler than 80 percent of the wrestlers in the Gabe era.

And that includes CM Punk who threw temper tantrums as well when he felt disrespected

[Montana]

The Austin Aries Syndrome excusers are something. Can't compliment the great show, only focused on the Sinclair Champion having a temper tantrum. Sad.

Sorry for wanting storylines involving the heavyweight champion being coherent. Don’t worry about that though, cause it was a good wrestling show.

Why did they turn Gresham heel again?

[AnHonorableMention]

It was a great show....with an ugly stain of burial of Gresham. whos a better wrestler than 80 percent of the wrestlers in the Gabe era.

And that includes CM Punk who threw temper tantrums as well when he felt disrespected

The first part of this may be the dumbest of your takes and there have been several head scratchers.

Punk's drawn more money doing commentary than Gresham has made in his career. He's earned the right to carve his own path.

The Austin Aries Syndrome excusers are something. Can't compliment the great show, only focused on the Sinclair Champion having a temper tantrum. Sad.

Sorry for wanting storylines involving the heavyweight champion being coherent. Don’t worry about that though, cause it was a good wrestling show.

Why did they turn Gresham heel again?

He wrestled Claudio Castagnoli, and he needed personality. Besides, the character he had in the SBG ROH was also a subtle heel that appeared face because he was against two other groups of heels.

[indyfan]

It was a great show....with an ugly stain of burial of Gresham. whos a better wrestler than 80 percent of the wrestlers in the Gabe era.

And that includes CM Punk who threw temper tantrums as well when he felt disrespected

The first part of this may be the dumbest of your takes and there have been several head scratchers.

Punk's drawn more money doing commentary than Gresham has made in his career. He's earned the right to carve his own path.

The Austin Aries Syndrome excusers are something. Can't compliment the great show, only focused on the Sinclair Champion having a temper tantrum. Sad.

Sorry for wanting storylines involving the heavyweight champion being coherent. Don’t worry about that though, cause it was a good wrestling show.

Why did they turn Gresham heel again?

He wrestled Claudio Castagnoli, and he needed personality. Besides, the character he had in the SBG ROH was also a subtle heel that appeared face because he was against two other groups of heels.

Everything you say is a dumbass take. Your little gatekeeping ass keeps coming here to try and sound like you know what your talking about because youre have some fetish for Gabe and Shane Hagadorn.

go run along to your podcast and pretend youre connected to pro wrestling.

Rhett Titus should close out Final Battle lol that was the best take, little Jeff

[AnHonorableMention]

It was a great show....with an ugly stain of burial of Gresham. whos a better wrestler than 80 percent of the wrestlers in the Gabe era.

And that includes CM Punk who threw temper tantrums as well when he felt disrespected

The first part of this may be the dumbest of your takes and there have been several head scratchers.

Punk's drawn more money doing commentary than Gresham has made in his career. He's earned the right to carve his own path.

Sorry for wanting storylines involving the heavyweight champion being coherent. Don’t worry about that though, cause it was a good wrestling show.

Why did they turn Gresham heel again?

He wrestled Claudio Castagnoli, and he needed personality. Besides, the character he had in the SBG ROH was also a subtle heel that appeared face because he was against two other groups of heels.

Everything you say is a dumbass take. Your little gatekeeping ass keeps coming here to try and sound like you know what your talking about because youre have some fetish for Gabe and Shane Hagadorn.

go run along to your podcast and pretend youre connected to pro wrestling.

Rhett Titus should close out Final Battle lol that was the best take, little Jeff

LOL. So whose socko account is this? Gatekeeping is really hysterical.

[Montana]

It was a great show....with an ugly stain of burial of Gresham. whos a better wrestler than 80 percent of the wrestlers in the Gabe era.

And that includes CM Punk who threw temper tantrums as well when he felt disrespected

The first part of this may be the dumbest of your takes and there have been several head scratchers.

Punk's drawn more money doing commentary than Gresham has made in his career. He's earned the right to carve his own path.

The Austin Aries Syndrome excusers are something. Can't compliment the great show, only focused on the Sinclair Champion having a temper tantrum. Sad.

Sorry for wanting storylines involving the heavyweight champion being coherent. Don’t worry about that though, cause it was a good wrestling show.

Why did they turn Gresham heel again?

He wrestled Claudio Castagnoli, and he needed personality. Besides, the character he had in the SBG ROH was also a subtle heel that appeared face because he was against two other groups of heels.

So he turned heel to wrestle Claudio. That makes no sense, hence why he’s pissed. Not once have I heard anyone say Gresham needs more personality, nor saying he was a subtle heel. I thought he restored honor to ROH and purified it.

Anyways, horrible booking… but whatever. Happy you are happy for it.

[AnHonorableMention]

It was a great show....with an ugly stain of burial of Gresham. whos a better wrestler than 80 percent of the wrestlers in the Gabe era.

And that includes CM Punk who threw temper tantrums as well when he felt disrespected

The first part of this may be the dumbest of your takes and there have been several head scratchers.

Punk's drawn more money doing commentary than Gresham has made in his career. He's earned the right to carve his own path.

Sorry for wanting storylines involving the heavyweight champion being coherent. Don’t worry about that though, cause it was a good wrestling show.

Why did they turn Gresham heel again?

He wrestled Claudio Castagnoli, and he needed personality. Besides, the character he had in the SBG ROH was also a subtle heel that appeared face because he was against two other groups of heels.

So he turned heel to wrestle Claudio. That makes no sense, hence why he’s pissed. Not once have I heard anyone say Gresham needs more personality, nor saying he was a subtle heel. I thought he restored honor to ROH and purified it.

Anyways, horrible booking… but whatever. Happy you are happy for it.

Knowing how excited I was to have Gresham in a company where he could expand himself and character especially with someone to talk for him, I'm not happy he's been exiled. But if you can't be a professional, in what you claim is bad creative, you don't deserve good creative or to be paid to be on TV. Buy a ticket with the rest of the civilians.

[DougN]

Comparing Austin Aries and Jonathan Gresham is extremely shortsighted, especially considering how many active wrestlers came to Gresham's defense on Monday while no one did when Aries pulled his shit in TNA.

[AnHonorableMention]

Comparing Austin Aries and Jonathan Gresham is extremely shortsighted, especially considering how many active wrestlers came to Gresham's defense on Monday while no one did when Aries pulled his shit in TNA.

I've seen nobody defend Gresham and as we've talked, I told you several things first hand. This unfortunately was a destination of when and not if. The Aries comparison is getting a push and letting your ego get out of control. Stay humble, keep your head down and respect those you work with even if you don't like them. That's being an Austin Aries and in this case Gresham.

[DougN]

Several ex-ROH guys and current Dark wrestlers have tweeted about Gresham being done wrong/dirty.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven regardless of him being difficult or not. The argument is shifting from "it wasn't bad booking" to "he didn't deserve good booking." No matter what was going on with Gresham, the booking of the main champion of ROH the last 4 months has been poor at best and shitty at worst. And that's the argument people are making -- it's bad booking. And if it was designed as a "test," then that's a dumbass game to play with your main champion.

[DougN]

Okay, I'll walk back the "several wrestlers have tweeted," but if you look at a lot of the pro-Gresham tweets in response to SRS' initial tweet, you'll see a lot of familiar names hitting like.

[BurningHammer]

The idea of being a great wrestler somehow being a reason to accept behaviour, attitude issues or that he shouldn’t have to tow the line others is an incredibly flawed one. Just to add Gresham (and saying as a big fan of his work in general) would never be able to reach the heights of Punk regardless of either one’s ability in the ring.

[AnHonorableMention]

Okay, I'll walk back the "several wrestlers have tweeted," but if you look at a lot of the pro-Gresham tweets in response to SRS' initial tweet, you'll see a lot of familiar names hitting like.

Huh? I went back and looked at the first and second Gresham posts. No mutual follows or people I'm following liked.

[DougN]

I'll go back and find some and send them you in a DM. Don't want to "out" anyone since I know at least two wrestlers have now "unliked" stuff. But there were more so I'll find them.