Supercard Of Honor 2022 - April 1st - Discussion

[EvanKnight]

Yeah, was expecting some mixed reactions to the show. To be honest, this show would have been better than anything Sinclair would have put together, given they released everyone from their contracts, and only a handful of names were announced for the show. ROH was slowly dying, and this should at least hopefully breathe some new life in.

As far as the look and feel, i thought it was pretty on par. Having Ian & Caprice call the action made it feel more like an ROH show. Thought for the most part, the in-ring quality was pretty high. I stepped out for a few minutes, but what i saw i liked. You had some big surprises with Samoa Joe & The Young Bucks. So to expect/think ROH will just be a developmental for AEW; i don't think it's going to quite be that. It seems like Talent can appear on either.

All in all, I'd give it a 8/10. I disliked that the old guard lost a majority of the matches, but Wheeler Yuta, Suzuki, and Mercedes, whom all have wrestled for ROH before are solid champs. FTR fits right into ROH's style. I would have preferred a little more 50/50 , but i'm not someone that gets overly concerned with who wins/losses certain matches (See Taven in 2019)

Pre- Show
Cabana vs. Blake Christian 3.0- Blake Christian will be perfect for the new ROH. Great to see Colt back.

Alize vs. AQA - I missed this.

SSS vs. Kaun & Toa - 1.5 - Glad Eli made it to the show, but this match sucked. Toa looked awful. Probably the low part of the show for me.

Castle vs. Hendry - Missed this too, but glad they were on the show.

****************

Zayne vs. Swerve 4.0 - Great opener. These guys would be great building blocks to a new ROH.

Ninja Mack vs. Cage 2.5 - Basically a squash, but a good one. Cage, another good piece for ROH.

Lethal vs. Moriarty 3.5 - I missed some of this matches, but what i saw i liked. Again, two guys that could really add a lot of a new ROH.

Martinez vs. Willow 3.0 - Solid

Briscoes vs. FTR - 5.0 - As expected, they were great dance partners, lived up to the hype and made me wanted more. I hope the Briscoes arent done; and the ending lives me to believe this isn't the end. Probably should have main evented; but understand why not too.

TItus vs. Suzuki 2.5 - This one felt a little over-board with taking out the old ROH champs. Not sure if ROH or Supercard needed Suzuki to Squash Rhett; but it happened.

Woods vs. Yuta - 3.0 - While watching this match, i kept thinking Yuta is going over. To be fair, in the AEW universe, Yuta's on Dynamite, and Woods is on dark. So Again, disappointed Woods didn't retain, BUT new ownership. If Woods had a long reign, i think Yuta would be a great replacement.

Gresham vs. Bandido 3.75-4.0 - This match went from boring , to hot very quickly. Think their styles clash, and kind of what i've expected for the match at final Battle.

The Aftermath cool, kind of what was expected.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Gotta think more AEW fans, who weren't familiar with ROH watched the show as well. I think your trying to please both fan bases. Having one ROH original retain, would have been nice, but oh well.


I think it's too early to write off the new ROH. We have no idea what they are doing moving forward. No TV deal yet, no streaming service with AEW yet, no touring schedule. I'd like to see guys like Blake Christian, Briag Cage, Swerve, Zayne, Yuta, Gresham, Lethal, FTR, Suzuki, etc moving forward. That doesn't feel like a developmental to me. Plus with using guys like Colt, Joe, Young Bucks, it seems like they'll use a lot of legends too. Only downside was using that Toa guy... which to be honest, i'd expect AEW use them of their dark /meh guys on ROH to help them. But with just one, on the show, i was happy with that. This also leaves the door open to ROH guys earning a spot in the new ROH, and potentially some of their titles back. Not sure who/what that could look like yet, but certainly they could cycle talent in.

Would also like to see guys like STP, Deppen, Dickinson, Dragon Lee, Rush, Tracy Williams in ROH, but time will tell. Really hope this isn't the end for the Briscoes.

I was going to though up an immediate reaction over the weekend and then read this, which pretty much mirrors my thoughts.

Colt/Blake felt like an ROH match you would have seen a decade ago, in a good way. Real happy to see Kaun, seems like a good position for him. Zayne/Swerve was good, Lethal/Lee was pretty good and Jay is better as a heel.

Having Willow, Titus, and Woods as the 3 previous ROH talents all lose the title matches did feel like a bit of a gut punch, but on the flip side I don't think it's Willow time for the belt and Rhett wouldn't have gotten the title if it wasn't for the hiatus, so Josh is really the only one you can argue had his legs cut out from under him.

Dem Boys vs FTR is why I watch ROH. If Tony let the Briscoes go, they will be a huge benefit to whatever company they land in.

I was not looking forward to Gresham/Bandido at Final Battle because they don't match on paper great and there was no story to it. Really seems like it was planned to be Brody winning at FB and Gresham taking it 6-9 months later...but I think the inclusion of Chavo added to the match and was glad when Bandido had him thrown out. Really builds the character depth and separates out ROH some. I hope that leads to Chavo bringing in someone who appreciates him more to target Bandido in the future? Post match is perfectly fine. Gresham's retaining the title over Bandido is not a moment that needed to not be "ruined" and the positioning of heel Lethal in the title picture along with a returning Joe is needed storytelling for a company that literally has nothing going on currently.

[EvanKnight]

Due to work, had most of the show on background noise. Briscoes vs. FTR is everything that's been praised about it. This was also my first time hearing Riccaboni and I have to agree with Cornette - he's far more polished for national cable TV than the much more niche-oriented Excalibur. That isn't a slight on Excalibur as Cornette intends in his criticism. Riccaboni is just a far more professional broadcaster that should be gunning for a spot on TNT or TBS should ROH end up on those networks.

I'd love to see Joe, Punk, & Homicide against Moxley, Kingston, & Danielson at some point.

My takeaway from Supercard was that I think Ian and Caprice are my favorite announce team of all time. They actually enhanced the matches, tie together the overall narrative, and exemplify the brand of ROH. Joe Rogan raises my enjoyment of any UFC card he calls, Joey Styles was always fun to hear when ECW was running, Bobby had great banter other announcers and was funny so he made the show enjoyable but sometimes at the expense of the match he was calling, I used to love when Jesse was there for SNME, and there are plenty of other decent announcers, but I cannot think of any team that consistently is as enjoyable and engaging. I mean, I hope the best for him, but I selfishly hope Ian doesn't get "called up" to AEW or anything.

[DougN]

I don't know if they're my favorite, but I think they're the best hands down right now. They really shined during the empty arena shows -- making matches feel so much bigger than they were even with no fans.

[monster mafia]

ROH Supercard Of Honor did over 20,000 PPV buys

WON from 2020: The last ROH show, Best in the World did an estimated 3,500 PPV buys. Death Before Dishonor at press time is estimated at just under 800 buys.

[Montana]

ROH Supercard Of Honor did over 20,000 PPV buys

WON from 2020: The last ROH show, Best in the World did an estimated 3,500 PPV buys. Death Before Dishonor at press time is estimated at just under 800 buys.

The other interesting thing about these numbers, is that is doesn't include any HonorClub Subscriptions, so if they sold20k PPVs at 30$ = 600K through traditional PPV. I think it's a fair estimate they sold 40K on Honorclub for 40,000$ = ~ 1M in revenue.

Not a bad start, for what was initially considered a bad investment that TK 'Overpaid" for a dead company.

My hope is with these numbers, until they figure out the game plan for ROH; run 1-2 monthly events on Honorclub, to keep your ~40K subscribers paying 10$ a month. At some point either get a TV Deal; or rolls into an AEW streaming service. Because as of now; the subscribers will just cancel if they don't run consistent events. (Which is what happened to SBG ROH)

[NewROHFan2020]

ROH Supercard Of Honor did over 20,000 PPV buys

WON from 2020: The last ROH show, Best in the World did an estimated 3,500 PPV buys. Death Before Dishonor at press time is estimated at just under 800 buys.

The other interesting thing about these numbers, is that is doesn't include any HonorClub Subscriptions, so if they sold20k PPVs at 30$ = 600K through traditional PPV. I think it's a fair estimate they sold 40K on Honorclub for 40,000$ = ~ 1M in revenue.

Not a bad start, for what was initially considered a bad investment that TK 'Overpaid" for a dead company.

My hope is with these numbers, until they figure out the game plan for ROH; run 1-2 monthly events on Honorclub, to keep your ~40K subscribers paying 10$ a month. At some point either get a TV Deal; or rolls into an AEW streaming service. Because as of now; the subscribers will just cancel if they don't run consistent events. (Which is what happened to SBG ROH)

Where’s your source on “~40k HC subs”?

Where would these 1-2 events be filmed?

[Montana]

ROH Supercard Of Honor did over 20,000 PPV buys

WON from 2020: The last ROH show, Best in the World did an estimated 3,500 PPV buys. Death Before Dishonor at press time is estimated at just under 800 buys.

The other interesting thing about these numbers, is that is doesn't include any HonorClub Subscriptions, so if they sold20k PPVs at 30$ = 600K through traditional PPV. I think it's a fair estimate they sold 40K on Honorclub for 40,000$ = ~ 1M in revenue.

Not a bad start, for what was initially considered a bad investment that TK 'Overpaid" for a dead company.

My hope is with these numbers, until they figure out the game plan for ROH; run 1-2 monthly events on Honorclub, to keep your ~40K subscribers paying 10$ a month. At some point either get a TV Deal; or rolls into an AEW streaming service. Because as of now; the subscribers will just cancel if they don't run consistent events. (Which is what happened to SBG ROH)

Where’s your source on “~40k HC subs”?

Where would these 1-2 events be filmed?

40k is an estimate as I said . that’s assume twice as many people (40k) would have paid 10$ over the 30$ For traditional ppv. Could be more or less, but they’ve likely generated close to 1M in sales off one show, aside of ticket sales and the cost to run the show.

You could film future events at Daly’s place or universal studios, until you have a touring schedule.

[Montana]

The other interesting thing about these numbers, is that is doesn't include any HonorClub Subscriptions, so if they sold20k PPVs at 30$ = 600K through traditional PPV. I think it's a fair estimate they sold 40K on Honorclub for 40,000$ = ~ 1M in revenue.

Not a bad start, for what was initially considered a bad investment that TK 'Overpaid" for a dead company.

My hope is with these numbers, until they figure out the game plan for ROH; run 1-2 monthly events on Honorclub, to keep your ~40K subscribers paying 10$ a month. At some point either get a TV Deal; or rolls into an AEW streaming service. Because as of now; the subscribers will just cancel if they don't run consistent events. (Which is what happened to SBG ROH)

Where’s your source on “~40k HC subs”?

Where would these 1-2 events be filmed?

40k is an estimate as I said . that’s assume twice as many people (40k) would have paid 10$ over the 30$ For traditional ppv. Could be more or less, but they’ve likely generated close to 1M in sales off one show, aside of ticket sales and the cost to run the show.

You could film future events at Daly’s place or universal studios, until you have a touring schedule.

Tony Kahn On his purchase of ROH:

“I’ll say that I am very happy with what I paid, especially knowing now how well the Supercard of Honor pay-per-view did for us. I felt good about it when I did the deal, and I feel better about it now.”

Safe to say, SOH did well for them.

[NewROHFan2020]

There’s no way HC has 40k subscribers. Especially during January thru March.

[tigermask7.0]

Wondering if there will a ROH Supercard Of Honor same time next year in Los Angeles/Hollywood?

If it's independent like this year or packaged as part of pre-existing event (like wrestlecon). Part of a packaged event so the live audience is less fractured than this year.

This would help ROH be viewed as an independent entity & give AEW (talent) a presence during wrestlemania weekend. Without directly competing against WWE.

[DougN]

I have a feeling not, only because TK doesn't want to piggyback off WWE. It was too late to change this year's for him.

[monster mafia]

FTR FUCKING RULES.

[Montana]

There’s no way HC has 40k subscribers. Especially during January thru March.

I would assume the vast majority of HC subscribers , signed up right before Supercard of Honor. It’s monthly, so you can sign up/cancel when you want. Why would someone be subscribed in Jan when they weren’t running shows? The only reason, is the back catalogue.

40K subscribers for SOH isn’t that unrealistic, compared to their traditional PPV buy rates, and YouTube Subscribers. Not to mention tentative tv numbers. They’ve got over 700K YT subscribers and added about 300K since like 2019. The ppv was only 10$. Hundreds of thousands of people know ROH, and it’s very likely most of the lapsed fans , wanted to check out the new product with new management. Plus the push to AEW fans, that they purchased ROH.

Plus look at the ROH buy in views. Believe that had 80-90K last Friday, and up to 123K views today.

So what’s your rationale that 40K is so vastly off?

[Montana]

Wondering if there will a ROH Supercard Of Honor same time next year in Los Angeles/Hollywood?

If it's independent like this year or packaged as part of pre-existing event (like wrestlecon). Part of a packaged event so the live audience is less fractured than this year.

This would help ROH be viewed as an independent entity & give AEW (talent) a presence during wrestlemania weekend. Without directly competing against WWE.

That was asked at the media scrum post Supercard. Tony said originally he was greatly against it, a reporter said it was kind of tradition of ROH, and TK never thought about it like that, and said he would consider it for ROH, or potentially running events with a AEW ppv.

[NewROHFan2020]

There’s no way HC has 40k subscribers. Especially during January thru March.

I would assume the vast majority of HC subscribers , signed up right before Supercard of Honor. It’s monthly, so you can sign up/cancel when you want. Why would someone be subscribed in Jan when they weren’t running shows? The only reason, is the back catalogue.

40K subscribers for SOH isn’t that unrealistic, compared to their traditional PPV buy rates, and YouTube Subscribers. Not to mention tentative tv numbers. They’ve got over 700K YT subscribers and added about 300K since like 2019. The ppv was only 10$. Hundreds of thousands of people know ROH, and it’s very likely most of the lapsed fans , wanted to check out the new product with new management. Plus the push to AEW fans, that they purchased ROH.

Plus look at the ROH buy in views. Believe that had 80-90K last Friday, and up to 123K views today.

So what’s your rationale that 40K is so vastly off?

40k subscribers is $4.8 million a year. That’s enough to pay 96 people $50,000 a year. They wouldn’t have closed up shop if they were making close to $5 million a year on their streaming service.

[Montana]

There’s no way HC has 40k subscribers. Especially during January thru March.

I would assume the vast majority of HC subscribers , signed up right before Supercard of Honor. It’s monthly, so you can sign up/cancel when you want. Why would someone be subscribed in Jan when they weren’t running shows? The only reason, is the back catalogue.

40K subscribers for SOH isn’t that unrealistic, compared to their traditional PPV buy rates, and YouTube Subscribers. Not to mention tentative tv numbers. They’ve got over 700K YT subscribers and added about 300K since like 2019. The ppv was only 10$. Hundreds of thousands of people know ROH, and it’s very likely most of the lapsed fans , wanted to check out the new product with new management. Plus the push to AEW fans, that they purchased ROH.

Plus look at the ROH buy in views. Believe that had 80-90K last Friday, and up to 123K views today.

So what’s your rationale that 40K is so vastly off?

40k subscribers is $4.8 million a year. That’s enough to pay 96 people $50,000 a year. They wouldn’t have closed up shop if they were making close to $5 million a year on their streaming service.

First off, 5M isn’t that much money. Especially for a Billion dollar company. That’s nothing. Plus all the cost of running the business. Secondly, we know a lot more people tuned into this show vs. past SBG shows, if you look at the ppv buyrates without subscription. Those 40K subscribers likely tuned in for Supercard and won’t renew their subscription if they aren’t running any content. You can cancel anytime. Some will stay, many will leave. That’s why for TK, it makes sense to run a live show and keep some of those subscribers.

Sinclair likely had much less subscribers especially when they weren’t running shows.

Ring of Honor didn’t close up… they sold the company. Things were trending down for sure, and with the pandemic, they made the right call to sell. ROH/SBG was asking for a lot of money (~30-40M rumor) and it’s not because they weren’t generating any money.

[DougN]

I'll split the difference. I really don't think there are 40k subscribers to Honor Club, but I think I could see a scenario with 20k.

But on the flip side, no way is $5 million a year enough to cover expenses for Ring Of Honor. Absolutely no way.

[NewROHFan2020]

I'll split the difference. I really don't think there are 40k subscribers to Honor Club, but I think I could see a scenario with 20k.

But on the flip side, no way is $5 million a year enough to cover expenses for Ring Of Honor. Absolutely no way.

I did not say it would cover their expenses. Only that you could hire 96 people at 50k a year. I really doubt most of the wrestlers were making that much either. Eli Eysom, Dak Draper, and others, probably weren’t making 50k. If they were making $400,000 a month on streaming, that’s pretty significant. That’s why they had nowhere close to 40k subscribers. Be lucky to hit 5 figures during months when they had shows. ROH gave most people no reason to keep HC when there were no shows happening.

[NewROHFan2020]

I would assume the vast majority of HC subscribers , signed up right before Supercard of Honor. It’s monthly, so you can sign up/cancel when you want. Why would someone be subscribed in Jan when they weren’t running shows? The only reason, is the back catalogue.

40K subscribers for SOH isn’t that unrealistic, compared to their traditional PPV buy rates, and YouTube Subscribers. Not to mention tentative tv numbers. They’ve got over 700K YT subscribers and added about 300K since like 2019. The ppv was only 10$. Hundreds of thousands of people know ROH, and it’s very likely most of the lapsed fans , wanted to check out the new product with new management. Plus the push to AEW fans, that they purchased ROH.

Plus look at the ROH buy in views. Believe that had 80-90K last Friday, and up to 123K views today.

So what’s your rationale that 40K is so vastly off?

40k subscribers is $4.8 million a year. That’s enough to pay 96 people $50,000 a year. They wouldn’t have closed up shop if they were making close to $5 million a year on their streaming service.

First off, 5M isn’t that much money. Especially for a Billion dollar company. That’s nothing. Plus all the cost of running the business. Secondly, we know a lot more people tuned into this show vs. past SBG shows, if you look at the ppv buyrates without subscription. Those 40K subscribers likely tuned in for Supercard and won’t renew their subscription if they aren’t running any content. You can cancel anytime. Some will stay, many will leave. That’s why for TK, it makes sense to run a live show and keep some of those subscribers.

Sinclair likely had much less subscribers especially when they weren’t running shows.

Ring of Honor didn’t close up… they sold the company. Things were trending down for sure, and with the pandemic, they made the right call to sell. ROH/SBG was asking for a lot of money (~30-40M rumor) and it’s not because they weren’t generating any money.

They basically did close. They announced last year that Final Battle would be their last show before “rebooting” or whatever. They released most of their contracted talent. Again, if they’re making $400k a month from HonorClub, they would have probably tried harder to keep it going. They were done and had they not had the video library, it would be done.

[Montana]

40k subscribers is $4.8 million a year. That’s enough to pay 96 people $50,000 a year. They wouldn’t have closed up shop if they were making close to $5 million a year on their streaming service.

First off, 5M isn’t that much money. Especially for a Billion dollar company. That’s nothing. Plus all the cost of running the business. Secondly, we know a lot more people tuned into this show vs. past SBG shows, if you look at the ppv buyrates without subscription. Those 40K subscribers likely tuned in for Supercard and won’t renew their subscription if they aren’t running any content. You can cancel anytime. Some will stay, many will leave. That’s why for TK, it makes sense to run a live show and keep some of those subscribers.

Sinclair likely had much less subscribers especially when they weren’t running shows.

Ring of Honor didn’t close up… they sold the company. Things were trending down for sure, and with the pandemic, they made the right call to sell. ROH/SBG was asking for a lot of money (~30-40M rumor) and it’s not because they weren’t generating any money.

They basically did close. They announced last year that Final Battle would be their last show before “rebooting” or whatever. They released most of their contracted talent. Again, if they’re making $400k a month from HonorClub, they would have probably tried harder to keep it going. They were done and had they not had the video library, it would be done.

No one is saying they were making 400K from Honorclub BEFORE with SBG, especially when they weren't running shows. SBG knew what their value was though. ROH was doing really good business in 2018, which wasn't that long ago. Clearly, once AEW purchased ROH, that brought more interest back to ROH and Supercard of Honor; thus better numbers all around. They sold 5X-6X more 30$ PPV streams for Supercard compared to one of SBG's best performing PPVs in recent memory. They sold 20X their worst of 2021. HC under SBG probably had between 2K-10K under SBG , depending what shows/ppv's were running. That might even be fairly low given it's a world wide company. Thus take the multipliers, and you get your estimate.

Either way; these are just my estimates. Your welcome to disagree. Clearly Tony Kahn is happy with his investment based on the numbers he knows, and what the wrestling observer has reported.