Final Battle - End of an Era Thread

[Wavelet Transform]

There are a number of creative issues, but everyone was great in the ring tonight. Watching the matches, you realize just how good ROH could be with the current roster.

Do hope ROH doesn't put the titles on someone from another company before the relaunch.

[Montana]

Joe Koff was there and did address the live crowd. I also assume Gresham’s slight heeling of the company at the very end wasn’t aired also from what reports on the show I e seen?

It did feel often like they were running a goodbye show and other times like they’ll be back. I guess time will tell.

As someone who was at the first show and this one, it’s been a wild ride.

Neither were shown on the PPV stream. Must have been a timing issue, and not wanting to waste time with Joe thanking the fans watching (@ home as well) Thanks for the info.

Yes; i felt the same way. It certainly felt like a farewell show; and a angles to leave off with; then they aired a quick promo with saying back in April 2022 with a new era.

Considering you pretty much had a majority of the current ROH fans watching; it would seem like a good idea to at least provide some info on the future (other than April 22) ... because how many people are just going to tune out of ROH for 3-4 months??

[McXal]

I loved SOME of the show. Briscoes/OGK was an absolute rollercoaster - and I was a little bit emotional watching the Briscoes and their family go nuts at the win. Gresh holding the proper ROH Title belt aloft to end of the show felt like a fitting way for a once great company to bow out. I thought Willow/Rok-C was great too. Willow is SO good. Rhett’s emotional face at his win is burned into my memory as well.

The end to Taylor/Kenny was very poignant, and I’m so glad they all f*cking ignored Todd Sinclair telling them to get out of the ring to have that moment. The fact that ROH/Sinclair tried to cut short that genuinely emotional, SO relevant and completely organic moment but thought that bullsh*t with EC3/Strowman was appropriate says everything about why they are in this position in the first place.

Seeing guys like Bryan, Punk, Jimmy, Cole, Eddie and the Bucks was a nice touch from their respective companies. Shame the WWE couldn’t show the same class and let guys like Joe, Nigel, Steen & Roddy do talking head spots too).

That stuff with EC3 was SO terrible. Just atrocious. Every second it went on I could see more and more time getting taken away from Lethal and Gresham (who badly needed more than the 15 minutes they got). Damn whomever agreed to that. Strowman sucks. EC3 is incredibly tedious. That ROH signed off on having those guys sh*t all over two of the VERY few success stories from their current ‘Future Of Honor’ set up - Eli & Mecca - says everything about how ass backwards the booking/management of this company is.

It was also very depressing seeing all these other companies getting bad ass matches out of ROH. Rok-C/Deonna and Briscoes/FTR would be huge deals for ROH they hadn’t been so stubborn and isolationist.

It was an emotional night. Hard to watch at points - but all in all I think they got more right than wrong.

[EvanKnight]

That stuff with EC3 was SO terrible. Just atrocious. Every second it went on I could see more and more time getting taken away from Lethal and Gresham (who badly needed more than the 15 minutes they got). Damn whomever agreed to that. Strowman sucks. EC3 is incredibly tedious. That ROH signed off on having those guys sh*t all over two of the VERY few success stories from their current ‘Future Of Honor’ set up - Eli & Mecca - says everything about how ass backwards the booking/management of this company is.

EC3’s promo was too long and rambling, I don’t know more than half of what he said, and I don’t understand the character at all, but if you get the chance to have Stowman, you take it. And, this was a decent way to do it on paper. Just needed to be shorter and more to the point.

[EvanKnight]

It absolutely should however this is not a topic to play the guessing game on.

I thought tonight has highs and some embarrassing lows. There were moments I cried tears of joy and others where I tossed my phone across the room. Ian was sensational. But god damn the only person in pro wrestling with less fun attached to him than Randy Orton and Braun Stroman is EC3. What an absolute mess.

You are right, but I don’t think the mixed signals and ambiguity is really the game plan, just represents reality.

Other than a dislike for Strowman, who I’d defend bringing in, and EC3s promo which was just too long and tedious, what else were the lows?

[kovs27]

That stuff with EC3 was SO terrible. Just atrocious. Every second it went on I could see more and more time getting taken away from Lethal and Gresham (who badly needed more than the 15 minutes they got). Damn whomever agreed to that. Strowman sucks. EC3 is incredibly tedious. That ROH signed off on having those guys sh*t all over two of the VERY few success stories from their current ‘Future Of Honor’ set up - Eli & Mecca - says everything about how ass backwards the booking/management of this company is.

EC3’s promo was too long and rambling, I don’t know more than half of what he said, and I don’t understand the character at all, but if you get the chance to have Stowman, you take it. And, this was a decent way to do it on paper. Just needed to be shorter and more to the point.

ROH probably agreed to it because it'll get Eli, Johnson and Dak work on the next Control Your Narrative video. If it gets those 3 additional pay checks somehow that ROH can't provide the next 4 months, it's okay with me.

[McXal]

All great points - I hadn’t actually considered the value to Eli, Dak and Johnson of being in all the social media/marketing for the Control Your Narrative shows.

I do rather strongly disagree with the ‘if you have a chance to use Strowman, you take it’ idea. I don’t think there is any need. At all. But I suspect that’s where we differ as wrestling fans - and that’s all fine. Everyone’s opinion is subjective. Personally if I never saw Strowman at a wrestling show again I’d be cool with it. Particularly in a company like ROH where the MO is supposed to be great matches - and when his showing up directly contributes to the main event not getting enough time.

[Lynx]

I think this show is a good ending for RoH. Some highs, some lows, some great matches, some weird angles and no clues as to what the future holds. Sums up last few years perfectly.

[Montana]

I think this show is a good ending for RoH. Some highs, some lows, some great matches, some weird angles and no clues as to what the future holds. Sums up last few years perfectly.

Probably the best way to summarize the show in a sentence or two.

[Wavelet Transform]

That stuff with EC3 was SO terrible. Just atrocious. Every second it went on I could see more and more time getting taken away from Lethal and Gresham (who badly needed more than the 15 minutes they got). Damn whomever agreed to that. Strowman sucks. EC3 is incredibly tedious. That ROH signed off on having those guys sh*t all over two of the VERY few success stories from their current ‘Future Of Honor’ set up - Eli & Mecca - says everything about how ass backwards the booking/management of this company is.

EC3’s promo was too long and rambling, I don’t know more than half of what he said, and I don’t understand the character at all, but if you get the chance to have Stowman, you take it. And, this was a decent way to do it on paper. Just needed to be shorter and more to the point.

Disagree on Strowman. That moment had an Enzo/Cass in MSG vibe to it for me. Also feels like misstep to pair the young, home-grown talents w/ EC3. Johnson esp. doesn't need to be in a faction. Maybe it will work out for Draper, who's done absolutely nothing since being paired w/ Dalton. He's decent in the ring and has been amusing on guest commentary, so he's clearly capable of more.

[Montana]

All in all, really liked the show. 4 hours of pretty much, non stop action, surprises and action. Really wasn’t anything bad about the show in my opinion. Hat’s off to commentary team tonight as well. They enhanced the action in the ring; and really added some heart felt emotion to the show; (Especially at the end of Hour one) that is missing in wrestling today. Certainly a bittersweet show; and I don’t think I’ll ever come to grips; with how much great talent ROH has; and having great matches; more fans don’t support the company. The IWC will bash WWE all day and night for years; yet don’t support an ROH; or many of the other smaller companies.

(I’ll try and keep this short and sweet)

Righteous vs. STP - 3.25 - Solid opener; good action. Surprised Righteous won the belts.

Women’s 6 women tag – (didn’t watch… I’ll probably check it out later)

10 man tag - 3.75 - Really liked this. This was like a sampler of wrestling all in one match; to the likes I don’t know if I’ve ever seen. Part of me; wants to rate this even higher based on the fun factor. Everyone did very well.

Again; Ian and Caprice really did a great job selling the PPV. Was a little surprised there wasn’t more video packages hyping up the matches; BUT I think ROH had 11 matches and 4 hours; and was very concise with time management in my opinion.

*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Dragon Lee vs. Rey Horus 3.5 - Much like Hour One - this was a great opener; fast paced, high flying action. I know everyone likes Dragon Lee; but Rey Horus is very good and doesn’t get the credit he probably deserves.

TV title Dalton Castle vs. Rhett Titus vs. Silas Young vs. Joe Hendry 3.5 - Very enjoyable. Like the more entertainment side of things; getting the crowd involved. Good to see Joe Hendry return; and very special moment for Rhett. I’d say a bit of a surprise upset; which was nice to see.

Josh Woods vs. Brian Johnson 3.00 - Served it’s purpose… I would have been real surprised if Mecca won; and I know a lot of people thought it would happen. We aren’t sure what’ll happen with the Pure title. They did the best with the time/talent they had. Told a good story; and good finish.

Shane Taylor vs. Kenny King - 4.25 - This was a pretty brutal match. Can’t wait to rewatch the highlights. Hat’s off to these guys; for wrestling like it was their last match.

Rok –C vs. Williow – 3.5 - Really good match; and I was kinda wondering why they went with Willow for this spot. Considering they had/have so many other women under contract; where as Willow is a free agent.

Violence Unlimited vs. Foundation 3.5 - Very good match; served it purpose ; to lead to post match stuff.

Post Match: I had no problems with this. Sets up future Control your Narrative stuff; which hopefully pays some guys; and helps bridge the gap. As for Braun; people complaining about this are the reason ROH is going in a different direction in the first place. He had a huge pop; AND gained quite a bit of attention in the wrestling world/social media. Plus it’s not like he’s on the ROH roster now; so chill out. It was like a 3-5 minutes segment. People thinking ROH can only be a certain way; and not living up to the past; is partially what’s held the company back from growing and evolving. What I’m hoping for; with a new company is to keep the same spirit ; but leave expectations that cursed the company. More people supporting ROH ; and less talking about the little parts they didn’t like; could have help change the perception/narrative of ROH.

Briscoes vs. OGK – 4.5 - Match of the night; and close to 5 in my opinion based on the emotions; and hard hitting action. Pretty much what you’d expect with a big send off match with these guys. I probably would have ended on this match; but think things worked out well the way there were.

Post Match: I like this sort of stuff; I thought maybe the Bucks were coming out; but FTR was quite a surprise. Think these teams will have great chemistry; and do a better program; than anything FTR has done in AEW to date. I’d like to see this match in April with ROH; but we’ll see. Maybe they do it in AEW first.

Jonathan Gresham vs Jay Lethal 4.25 - Really good match ; you could tell they were a little crunched on time. Looked the locker room coming out; and great final match for ROH.

Overall… 10/10 show for me. Had it all. Surprises; action; unique different matches; lots of emotion, fun, psychology, hardcore, high flying, strong style, pure technical wrestling. I know some companies like NXT takeover’s or AEW like to have their 2nd match be this incredible 20=25 minute bout with ton’s of false finishes;… while the matches can be great; tend to hurt the show quality/variety in my opinion. If every match is trying to be match of the night; it takes away for me personally. Thought this was great balance. Great end to this era; and excited about what’s next.

Like I mentioned earlier; still think Joe Koff should have addressed the fans watching as well. I get you only have 4 hours; and want to stick to the action. This show didn’t really give much answers towards the future. They’ll be back potentially in April as something new?? That’s what I took away from it.. and go watch Impact, AEW, Control your Narrative in the mean time. I also found it a bit surprising that the surprises were FTR/Braun. Seems like having a Danielson appear; or Daniels; as ROH legends would have been more what I was expecting…. But nice to see the video packages none the less.

[Wrestlingisback]

Great show. Gave the history of ROH it’s much-deserved flowers and showed great respect for the past while sowing seeds for the future in AEW, Impact and even whatever the hell EC3 is doing. Fight Club Pro Wrestling Federation.

Could do without the homage to Enzo/Cass at MSG that was Braun, Blake and EC3, but it’s a mild complaint and it at least gives Mecca, Isom and Draper a landing spot until April.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens between now and then. Gresham sounds content to do Terminus and NJPW Strong with maybe a pit stop in AEW when/if Khan gives him the Danielson match.

Brody, Briscoes, Dragon Lee and Bandido likely lead the headed to AEW contingent considering the fans they got there.

MLW probably goes after whatever Luchadores AEW doesn’t get for their Lucha Underground knockoff.

Who knows with Impact. Though if they were smart, they would give Ian and Caprice a blank check and beg them to come before any talent.

NWA seems like a OGK landing spot.

Everyone else seems likely to be there in April and there should be some other free agents that fit the mold. ROH as a SuperIndy with TV go work out well

[Montana]

That stuff with EC3 was SO terrible. Just atrocious. Every second it went on I could see more and more time getting taken away from Lethal and Gresham (who badly needed more than the 15 minutes they got). Damn whomever agreed to that. Strowman sucks. EC3 is incredibly tedious. That ROH signed off on having those guys sh*t all over two of the VERY few success stories from their current ‘Future Of Honor’ set up - Eli & Mecca - says everything about how ass backwards the booking/management of this company is.

EC3’s promo was too long and rambling, I don’t know more than half of what he said, and I don’t understand the character at all, but if you get the chance to have Stowman, you take it. And, this was a decent way to do it on paper. Just needed to be shorter and more to the point.

Disagree on Strowman. That moment had an Enzo/Cass in MSG vibe to it for me. Also feels like misstep to pair the young, home-grown talents w/ EC3. Johnson esp. doesn't need to be in a faction. Maybe it will work out for Draper, who's done absolutely nothing since being paired w/ Dalton. He's decent in the ring and has been amusing on guest commentary, so he's clearly capable of more.

I don't see how ROH using a Enzo/Cass or Bruan is any different than any other promotion with one-off appearances... Yet ROH/Wrestling fans are still giving ROH heat on it years later. Like GCW just announced Kevin Nash , Sabu, and Ricky Morton for a show; and fans love it. I'm sure there are other cases with all the promotions. Impact brought in a kiss demon... i haven't heard their fans bitching about it. AEW is having matches with Billy Gunn and Sting that are a combined age of 110 and fans love it. Luther is still on the roster.

ROH does these rare/sparingly and they get crucified for it. Doesn;t seem fair. How many other promotions today are jumping to feature guys like Tyler Rust, Tracy Williams, Tony Deppen etc on their roster. ROH does this; and yet we are talking about the segments less than like 5 minutes.. not even a match.

Side note: we haven't even seen what Braun can do outside of WWE. I'm sure he's no technical wrestling expert; but IF ROH or any promotion picked him up; i assume he'd just be used like a beast; who chops/suplex/kills his opponents. It's not like the guy is canceled for the speaking out movement. Someone should give him a shot; and see what he can do. He literally should still be able to draw some fans; and could still be a big star in the business. For his size; he's quite athletic too. Not saying ROH is the right home for him; BUT it's literally a one off... i thought it was pretty cool to see.

[AnHonorableMention]

It absolutely should however this is not a topic to play the guessing game on.

I thought tonight has highs and some embarrassing lows. There were moments I cried tears of joy and others where I tossed my phone across the room. Ian was sensational. But god damn the only person in pro wrestling with less fun attached to him than Randy Orton and Braun Stroman is EC3. What an absolute mess.

You are right, but I don’t think the mixed signals and ambiguity is really the game plan, just represents reality.

Other than a dislike for Strowman, who I’d defend bringing in, and EC3s promo which was just too long and tedious, what else were the lows?

Emotion being the unknown. I didn’t care for Gresham and Lethal, by far the weakest match of their series. Too many matches, too many people booked, felt like you were watching different promotions on one show. Major emotional disconnect. Braun and ec3 and whatever else are a waste. One guy who wanted 15k for an Indy appearance and another who was so boring I’d recommend him as a substitute for ambien

[AnHonorableMention]

EC3’s promo was too long and rambling, I don’t know more than half of what he said, and I don’t understand the character at all, but if you get the chance to have Stowman, you take it. And, this was a decent way to do it on paper. Just needed to be shorter and more to the point.

Disagree on Strowman. That moment had an Enzo/Cass in MSG vibe to it for me. Also feels like misstep to pair the young, home-grown talents w/ EC3. Johnson esp. doesn't need to be in a faction. Maybe it will work out for Draper, who's done absolutely nothing since being paired w/ Dalton. He's decent in the ring and has been amusing on guest commentary, so he's clearly capable of more.

I don't see how ROH using a Enzo/Cass or Bruan is any different than any other promotion with one-off appearances... Yet ROH/Wrestling fans are still giving ROH heat on it years later. Like GCW just announced Kevin Nash , Sabu, and Ricky Morton for a show; and fans love it. I'm sure there are other cases with all the promotions. Impact brought in a kiss demon... i haven't heard their fans bitching about it. AEW is having matches with Billy Gunn and Sting that are a combined age of 110 and fans love it. Luther is still on the roster.

ROH does these rare/sparingly and they get crucified for it. Doesn;t seem fair. How many other promotions today are jumping to feature guys like Tyler Rust, Tracy Williams, Tony Deppen etc on their roster. ROH does this; and yet we are talking about the segments less than like 5 minutes.. not even a match.

Side note: we haven't even seen what Braun can do outside of WWE. I'm sure he's no technical wrestling expert; but IF ROH or any promotion picked him up; i assume he'd just be used like a beast; who chops/suplex/kills his opponents. It's not like the guy is canceled for the speaking out movement. Someone should give him a shot; and see what he can do. He literally should still be able to draw some fans; and could still be a big star in the business. For his size; he's quite athletic too. Not saying ROH is the right home for him; BUT it's literally a one off... i thought it was pretty cool to see.

Kevin Nash and sabu aren’t wrestling. They’re being honored by the promotion in their home town. Ricky Morton can still go, in bursts and he’ll likely be hidden well as he has been at GCW.

Braun was wwe champ during the lowest watched wwe show of all time (raw/smackdown only). He’s a literal safety hazard that makes Brent Albright look like he’s managed properly by osha.

As for the Billy Gunn/sting comparisons this is akin to comparing the lakers signing Carmelo at 38 and playing him limited minutes to not using some guy from the g league. Those two are legends. Luther is a comedy act. Big difference is how people are used.

[Wrestlingisback]

EC3’s promo was too long and rambling, I don’t know more than half of what he said, and I don’t understand the character at all, but if you get the chance to have Stowman, you take it. And, this was a decent way to do it on paper. Just needed to be shorter and more to the point.

Disagree on Strowman. That moment had an Enzo/Cass in MSG vibe to it for me. Also feels like misstep to pair the young, home-grown talents w/ EC3. Johnson esp. doesn't need to be in a faction. Maybe it will work out for Draper, who's done absolutely nothing since being paired w/ Dalton. He's decent in the ring and has been amusing on guest commentary, so he's clearly capable of more.

I don't see how ROH using a Enzo/Cass or Bruan is any different than any other promotion with one-off appearances... Yet ROH/Wrestling fans are still giving ROH heat on it years later. Like GCW just announced Kevin Nash , Sabu, and Ricky Morton for a show; and fans love it. I'm sure there are other cases with all the promotions. Impact brought in a kiss demon... i haven't heard their fans bitching about it. AEW is having matches with Billy Gunn and Sting that are a combined age of 110 and fans love it. Luther is still on the roster.

ROH does these rare/sparingly and they get crucified for it. Doesn;t seem fair. How many other promotions today are jumping to feature guys like Tyler Rust, Tracy Williams, Tony Deppen etc on their roster. ROH does this; and yet we are talking about the segments less than like 5 minutes.. not even a match.

Side note: we haven't even seen what Braun can do outside of WWE. I'm sure he's no technical wrestling expert; but IF ROH or any promotion picked him up; i assume he'd just be used like a beast; who chops/suplex/kills his opponents. It's not like the guy is canceled for the speaking out movement. Someone should give him a shot; and see what he can do. He literally should still be able to draw some fans; and could still be a big star in the business. For his size; he's quite athletic too. Not saying ROH is the right home for him; BUT it's literally a one off... i thought it was pretty cool to see.

It’s because ROH always presented themselves as the promotion above the one off cheap pop stuff. Not to mention guys like Morton, Nash, Sabu and Sting have some respected history going for them as opposed to Enzo, Cass and Braun whose appeal is to an audience that don’t even, in theory, watch ROH

[Wrestlingisback]

Interesting digs got in last night. Shane T. clearly not happy his moment got cut.

https://twitter.com/shane216taylor/stat ... 70272?s=20

Gresham’s post show comments weren’t all flattering either.

Pure wrestlers, we have won. Ring of Honor is now pure. In closing, I’ll tell you a story, a very short story so bear with me. Another man very important to this company’s history once said, ‘Isn’t this the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen?’ He’s standing before you here right now and I completely understand what he meant. For so many years, I believed in this company. Blindly. I believed that this company cared. But it wasn’t until a global pandemic hit that I realized that they do not. I realized that they were forced to use us for pure technical wrestling.

“I realized that they did not care about honor. So, as long as I am champion, I will not allow this company to get back on its feet and abandon us again. I will not allow it. I will take the heart and soul of this company and the essence of this company and I will take it with me to TERMINUS. In TERMINUS, the pure professional wrestler, the pure style will be valued. We will not be treated like a last resort. We are the essence, we are the lifeblood, we are the future of professional wrestling. I know this because I am The Foundation.”

Good push for Terminus, but sounds like both guys are going to want a different mentality up top before they come back

[Lynx]

I would have preferred if that segment didn't exist, but I don't really understand why people are comparing it to Enzo/Cass. It didn't ruin a match and I haven't heard anything bad about Braun as a person. Main problem with that segment was EC3, not Braun.

[AnHonorableMention]

Considering the Pure Title return was a delirious idea and push I’d say angle.

[AnHonorableMention]

I would have preferred if that segment didn't exist, but I don't really understand why people are comparing it to Enzo/Cass. It didn't ruin a match and I haven't heard anything bad about Braun as a person. Main problem with that segment was EC3, not Braun.

He’s a maga supporting douche bag