Final Battle card Predictions

[Wavelet Transform]

On the other hand, if ROH was more open, and say Final Battle will be the last show, and that Bandido / Zayne /Gresham / Brody are all fighting to be the very last ROH champion, I think that means more.

Very good point and I think it hints that even guys running RoH are not sure about what is going to happen next. Like, I don't think that it is a given that RoH will return for Mania weekend.

I think you're right that they don't know. The higher-ups at Sinclair could axe ROH at any time, like happened w/ WCW, or someone makes them a great offer they don't refuse. But, those are hypotheticals. The plan IS to come back and you have to book the show accordingly.

[AnHonorableMention]

As my late Great Bubbie would say in Yiddish, “ mentsh planz got lafs”. Translates to man plans and god laughs. If you read the behavior and actions of talent, there is very little belief the comeback is legit. It’s a mechanism to keep value on the library and IP. As someone who worked for a company that was sold, ROH is doing all the proper things to make the value higher than it really is.

[Wavelet Transform]

If you read the behavior and actions of talent, there is very little belief the comeback is legit.

Rightly so - there's no positive way to spin releasing an entire roster you've spent years assembling/developing. But, Sinclair could have just closed the company immediately, fired everyone, and put the library and any other assets up for sale. What additional value does hibernating ROH have? Plus, you're still paying, minimally, Koff, Delirious, and Greg G. while you wait for a buyer. There's also zero chance the talent is privy to anything happening at the higher levels of Sinclair corporate.

I think you're right that if they get a monster offer, they'll sell. Why wouldn't they? The company's most profitable years are probably behind them and it's far tougher to compete in wrestling now than it was prior to AEW.

But, I can also see the changes as consistent with Sinclair wanting to retain ROH, but forcing them to be accountable for what's happened the past 2 years. Throwing some very rough numbers out there, the best I can see ROH doing for the foreseeable future is 500 fans at $30 a ticket, for $15,000 an event. Splitting that among a roster of 30 is $500 a show/person and $20,000 for the year/person if you run 40 shows. If memory serves, Marty was supposed to be getting 1 mil and if you're paying anyone on the roster even 1 / 10th of that, you're overpaying by 5x what you can reasonably expect to earn. That's totally unsustainable and it's not surprising Sinclar would want to stop that. Obviously, the real numbers are more complicated, but it's also clear that ROH is losing money and the contracts aren't needed. Someone like Dalton or EC3 is on a contract but appears on television like once every 4 episodes.

[EvanKnight]

If you read the behavior and actions of talent, there is very little belief the comeback is legit.

Rightly so - there's no positive way to spin releasing an entire roster you've spent years assembling/developing. But, Sinclair could have just closed the company immediately, fired everyone, and put the library and any other assets up for sale. What additional value does hibernating ROH have? Plus, you're still paying, minimally, Koff, Delirious, and Greg G. while you wait for a buyer. There's also zero chance the talent is privy to anything happening at the higher levels of Sinclair corporate.

I think you're right that if they get a monster offer, they'll sell. Why wouldn't they? The company's most profitable years are probably behind them and it's far tougher to compete in wrestling now than it was prior to AEW.

But, I can also see the changes as consistent with Sinclair wanting to retain ROH, but forcing them to be accountable for what's happened the past 2 years. Throwing some very rough numbers out there, the best I can see ROH doing for the foreseeable future is 500 fans at $30 a ticket, for $15,000 an event. Splitting that among a roster of 30 is $500 a show/person and $20,000 for the year/person if you run 40 shows. If memory serves, Marty was supposed to be getting 1 mil and if you're paying anyone on the roster even 1 / 10th of that, you're overpaying by 5x what you can reasonably expect to earn. That's totally unsustainable and it's not surprising Sinclar would want to stop that. Obviously, the real numbers are more complicated, but it's also clear that ROH is losing money and the contracts aren't needed. Someone like Dalton or EC3 is on a contract but appears on television like once every 4 episodes.

Your calculations are ignoring the most important factor of the equation. Sinclair is a content provider who needs to fill air time with some programming they can market. Having a 52 week a year new content provider is of value. ROH doesn’t just need to turn a profit based on tickets and merch, it only needs to be a net positive comparatively to the value it brings/saves from sourcing other programming. Original TV programming costs money for actors, writers, and sets.

ROH will face an uphill battle if they do come back because they will need to generate a substantial buzz to gain any traction and they struggle to create a buzz with good talent putting on consistently good shows.

[AnHonorableMention]

If you read the behavior and actions of talent, there is very little belief the comeback is legit.

Rightly so - there's no positive way to spin releasing an entire roster you've spent years assembling/developing. But, Sinclair could have just closed the company immediately, fired everyone, and put the library and any other assets up for sale. What additional value does hibernating ROH have? Plus, you're still paying, minimally, Koff, Delirious, and Greg G. while you wait for a buyer. There's also zero chance the talent is privy to anything happening at the higher levels of Sinclair corporate.

I think you're right that if they get a monster offer, they'll sell. Why wouldn't they? The company's most profitable years are probably behind them and it's far tougher to compete in wrestling now than it was prior to AEW.

But, I can also see the changes as consistent with Sinclair wanting to retain ROH, but forcing them to be accountable for what's happened the past 2 years. Throwing some very rough numbers out there, the best I can see ROH doing for the foreseeable future is 500 fans at $30 a ticket, for $15,000 an event. Splitting that among a roster of 30 is $500 a show/person and $20,000 for the year/person if you run 40 shows. If memory serves, Marty was supposed to be getting 1 mil and if you're paying anyone on the roster even 1 / 10th of that, you're overpaying by 5x what you can reasonably expect to earn. That's totally unsustainable and it's not surprising Sinclar would want to stop that. Obviously, the real numbers are more complicated, but it's also clear that ROH is losing money and the contracts aren't needed. Someone like Dalton or EC3 is on a contract but appears on television like once every 4 episodes.

Your calculations are ignoring the most important factor of the equation. Sinclair is a content provider who needs to fill air time with some programming they can market. Having a 52 week a year new content provider is of value. ROH doesn’t just need to turn a profit based on tickets and merch, it only needs to be a net positive comparatively to the value it brings/saves from sourcing other programming. Original TV programming costs money for actors, writers, and sets.

ROH will face an uphill battle if they do come back because they will need to generate a substantial buzz to gain any traction and they struggle to create a buzz with good talent putting on consistently good shows.

This is all very true and something to consider. However, there is an out that can seemingly come with a sale and content being provided for those slots. It’s a matter of does SBG risk bankruptcy due to immense money loss or do they try and recoup something for a valuable asset.

[Wavelet Transform]

If you read the behavior and actions of talent, there is very little belief the comeback is legit.

Rightly so - there's no positive way to spin releasing an entire roster you've spent years assembling/developing. But, Sinclair could have just closed the company immediately, fired everyone, and put the library and any other assets up for sale. What additional value does hibernating ROH have? Plus, you're still paying, minimally, Koff, Delirious, and Greg G. while you wait for a buyer. There's also zero chance the talent is privy to anything happening at the higher levels of Sinclair corporate.

I think you're right that if they get a monster offer, they'll sell. Why wouldn't they? The company's most profitable years are probably behind them and it's far tougher to compete in wrestling now than it was prior to AEW.

But, I can also see the changes as consistent with Sinclair wanting to retain ROH, but forcing them to be accountable for what's happened the past 2 years. Throwing some very rough numbers out there, the best I can see ROH doing for the foreseeable future is 500 fans at $30 a ticket, for $15,000 an event. Splitting that among a roster of 30 is $500 a show/person and $20,000 for the year/person if you run 40 shows. If memory serves, Marty was supposed to be getting 1 mil and if you're paying anyone on the roster even 1 / 10th of that, you're overpaying by 5x what you can reasonably expect to earn. That's totally unsustainable and it's not surprising Sinclar would want to stop that. Obviously, the real numbers are more complicated, but it's also clear that ROH is losing money and the contracts aren't needed. Someone like Dalton or EC3 is on a contract but appears on television like once every 4 episodes.

Your calculations are ignoring the most important factor of the equation. Sinclair is a content provider who needs to fill air time with some programming they can market. Having a 52 week a year new content provider is of value. ROH doesn’t just need to turn a profit based on tickets and merch, it only needs to be a net positive comparatively to the value it brings/saves from sourcing other programming. Original TV programming costs money for actors, writers, and sets.

ROH will face an uphill battle if they do come back because they will need to generate a substantial buzz to gain any traction and they struggle to create a buzz with good talent putting on consistently good shows.

I think the content is the reason they didn't close the company and the reason we (hopefully) get a reboot in 2022. But, that doesn't change the fact that they're (likely) massively overpaying talent relative to the current ratings/interest/attendance/revenue. That's not going to escape the attention of the bookkeepers at Sinclair, esp. if they're looking to cut costs. I'd guess ROH could, at the very least, equal their ratings/attendance with monthly TV tapings where talent are paid per appearance. Maybe they even do better by splurging and bringing in a big name from time to time with the savings of no contracts.

At the same time, if Vince or Tony are willing to overpay for the library, why not get a money-loser off the books and boost your revenue in the midst of a bad year? The important questions are what is the magic number and who would pay it. Seems Vince would already have it if he wanted it and there's no AEW streaming platform for Tony to use it on.

[AnHonorableMention]

Seems Vince would already have it if he wanted it and there's no AEW streaming platform for Tony to use it on.

Wwe had people doing due diligence in 2018 after all in about buying it. The number was astronomical. There’s only one person mentioned without a streaming service mentioned, and that’s something I can tell you as fact will not be the case sooner rather than later.

[Wavelet Transform]

Assume we're getting Johnson vs. Woods for the Pure Title. Perhaps an outside chance they go w/ Rust/Woods though....

[kovs27]

Assume we're getting Johnson vs. Woods for the Pure Title. Perhaps an outside chance they go w/ Rust/Woods though....

No disrespect to Brian Johnson but I'd much prefer Woods face a real Pure wrestler. Who knows if the Pure title will return in the new ROH, let him defend it in a matchthat is deserving of the great Pure matches we've had this past year and a half.

[Lynx]

I like Johnson, but to me he is a perfect opening match guy or someone you use in something like a 4-way. He definitely shouldn't be getting a major singles match on Final Battle.

[DougN]

Surprised they didn't go with Flip or Dak vs Woods. That would have been fun. Flip has a win over Josh in a pure rules match so the story is there. Or Tracy Williams would have been fun too.

But maybe these guys aren't going to be on Final Battle?

[indyfan]

i have a bad feeling this show isnt going to be great. After reading the spoilers of tv this past weekend, im even more depressed about it

[Shanahan]

I'm 100% sure they are putting titles on guys they feel won't be signing with WWE or AEW. Gresham so far has had no interest in AEW. I think he is happy to do NJPW/ROH/Indies & his new promotion. OGK or Briscoes also seem like guys who will stick around ROH/NJPW/NWA/Indies. Same with STP/Castle. This is why i see Johnson winning pure title from woods and why i believe rok-c is dropping women's title.

[kovs27]

I'm 100% sure they are putting titles on guys they feel won't be signing with WWE or AEW. Gresham so far has had no interest in AEW. I think he is happy to do NJPW/ROH/Indies & his new promotion. OGK or Briscoes also seem like guys who will stick around ROH/NJPW/NWA/Indies. Same with STP/Castle. This is why i see Johnson winning pure title from woods and why i believe rok-c is dropping women's title.

I don't see Woods going to either WWE or AEW. He first really fit in either promotion. I don't Raitt see Woods fitting anywhere else. I could see him exploring more MMA if anything.

[Lynx]

So Dalton vs Isom for TV title?

Dalton had his ups and downs, but I think he has been an integral part of the company for last 5-6 years. I think him having a featured match on final show makes more sense. Rush and Dragon Lee are good/great wrestlers, but their run with RoH has been rather disappointing (and thats not entirely on RoH's booking) so I'm fine with their family not getting booked for this show at all.

I still don't really believe that RoH will be back, but suppose it is then I could see Gresham, Briscoes/OGK, Woods and Dalton/Isom as being the champs.

[EvanKnight]

Getting the titles off Dragon Lee heading into the PPV is 100% the right call, makes all the title matches more interesting. Giving Dragon Lee a showcase match on the PPV would also bee 100% the right call in my book.

Hopefully if the go with Mecca in the pure title bout, it's a glorified squash. Have Josh jump him right at the bell and go all technical beast on him, give Johnson something to bitch about after and it will all be good.

There are a lot of talent in the mix to try and cram into one show, are we getting the obligatory honor rumble with surprise entrants?

[monster mafia]

Mecca vs woods announced

[Montana]

i have a bad feeling this show isnt going to be great. After reading the spoilers of tv this past weekend, im even more depressed about it

I think it should still be a pretty solid show. They may be missing some top talent, but they already got 2 for sure great matches in the world title match and the tag title match. I assume they will headline.

Having Brody and Dragon Lee on the card will cement it, not having them, you need Deppen in a big match.

We may get a surprise or two as well. They did say expect the unexpected… although I’d keep expectations in check until more is announced.

[Montana]

Mecca vs woods announced

Might just be me, but I feel like Josh Woods is for sure winning right? I like the Mecca, but not sure id put the pure title on him.

[Shanahan]

Mecca vs woods announced

Might just be me, but I feel like Josh Woods is for sure winning right? I like the Mecca, but not sure id put the pure title on him.

ROH is putting titles on guys they know will be available to them in april. Johnson is 100% winning. Woods will be going to WWE or AEW.