The Item in the Box Was BAD! - Differing View

[TYFDK]

I have a hard time believing this fue's being done due to a lack of anything else going on in th company.
People have been clamoring for a Steen/Generico feud for the ROH World title since before Steen won at Border Wars.
If anything, this is ROH making up for the past year of being mediocre by giving us what most of us want.

[Tree]

Please let me be clear: I LOVE El Generico. Dude is my favorite non-WWE wrestler far and away. He adds such tremendous value to any event he is a part of. He has given a much needed boost to Dragon Gate USA and EVOLVE during 2012, a time as well, where ROH seemingly could not have been bothered to maximize his talents and skills, during the same period with a thin roster I mentioned before.

Tom -

this is the paragraph that stood out to me. it strikes me that the real reason you're not liking "The item in the box" is because you feel a Generico return to ROH is going to hurt DGUSA and Evolve, and because you feel ROH didn't properly use Generico.

i counter that they are using him EXACTLY how they should. they kept him off camera for quite some time, let him get fresh, then BAM, blow the doors out the barn by bringing him in as Kevin Steen's worst nightmare.

this is classic, old school booking at its base, and at its best.

[Thomas Bobo]

Lots of good replies and discussion here.

I would have been back to chime in sooner, but football and baseball took my time yesterday.

I didn't think I would have many people agree with me, let alone agree to disagree on the point.

With their history, I do not disagree that Generico coming for Steen is something meaningful and emotional. I know I will tune in when they fight and I know it will deliver. It doesn't stop the feelings that I do think it comes off to me as ROH capitalizing on something because of backstory (granted, there is a lot of it within ROH, not just other promotions) and not trying to dig deeper and tell a new, fresh story.

If we get this bout for Final Battle and it is a one-off, or Generico wins the belt, then where do they go from there? I guess we will need to see how it does play out and that is why we are fans.

[Thomas Bobo]

Please let me be clear: I LOVE El Generico. Dude is my favorite non-WWE wrestler far and away. He adds such tremendous value to any event he is a part of. He has given a much needed boost to Dragon Gate USA and EVOLVE during 2012, a time as well, where ROH seemingly could not have been bothered to maximize his talents and skills, during the same period with a thin roster I mentioned before.

Tom -

this is the paragraph that stood out to me. it strikes me that the real reason you're not liking "The item in the box" is because you feel a Generico return to ROH is going to hurt DGUSA and Evolve, and because you feel ROH didn't properly use Generico.

i counter that they are using him EXACTLY how they should. they kept him off camera for quite some time, let him get fresh, then BAM, blow the doors out the barn by bringing him in as Kevin Steen's worst nightmare.

this is classic, old school booking at its base, and at its best.

I certainly can see how it could be interpreted as that, but it is not the case.

To be quite honest, DG USA/EVOLVE hasn't used Generico to his full potential as well to this point and barring any change with the angle from Saturday, Generico is scheduled for the next set of DG USA shows in about 3 weeks.

If anything, we might see here that Generico is the type of guy that shows how you can have talents really transcend promotional boundaries and draw money for the companies and themselves within them.

[Jimthy]

Interesting take on the Generico return Tom.

To me, this is where it always needed to go. No one in ROH can stop Steen, so they turn to the one person who can, El Generico.

While I get what you're saying about starting a new story, I think that they need to continue to build the roster and continue to build the credibility of guys to do that, so while that is on going (hopefully) you pull this out of your hat to get long time fans excited about a new chapter in the feud (this time over the World Title), and then hopefully have strong challengers lined up either for Steen if he retains, or more likely in my eyes, for a short run with Generico as your champ.

(Personally, I have Generico win the belt at Final Battle, perhaps a rematch at Supercard of Honor, maybe, and then drop it to Elgin at 11th Anniversary Show).

[Tree]

Interesting take on the Generico return Tom.

To me, this is where it always needed to go. No one in ROH can stop Steen, so they turn to the one person who can, El Generico.

While I get what you're saying about starting a new story, I think that they need to continue to build the roster and continue to build the credibility of guys to do that, so while that is on going (hopefully) you pull this out of your hat to get long time fans excited about a new chapter in the feud (this time over the World Title), and then hopefully have strong challengers lined up either for Steen if he retains, or more likely in my eyes, for a short run with Generico as your champ.

(Personally, I have Generico win the belt at Final Battle, perhaps a rematch at Supercard of Honor, maybe, and then drop it to Elgin at 11th Anniversary Show).

i think this is a good summary.

sometimes, there's no question, a wrestling company goes to the well too many times - they take something already stale, and run it into the ground.

but i don't think this is the case at all with Steen and Generico. This feud is as fresh today as it was when it first began.

to me, Steen and Generico have become ROH's version of Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes, the greatest feud in wrestling history (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7773 ... ng-history).

you could have them battle for the strap in 5 years, and it will be fresh, and the fans will pay for it. they can both be serious as a heart attack, but also more funny than a barrel of monkeys.

and the best part, this is only the beginning. the next step happens when Generico takes the title, and Steen goes all out (you ain't seen nothing yet, carnage-wise), to get his title back. There will be turns and twists and mentors and students and getting back stabbed and everything that makes for an Epic.

ROH has waited a long, long time for a feud for the strap that meant something. a back-and-forth i don't give a crap if the belt changes hands 5 times next year alone, as long as it's between these two men.

this is what wrestling is about, and if ROH does it right, they've got a story that won't end until one man retires.

[Thomas Bobo]

ROH has waited a long, long time for a feud for the strap that meant something. a back-and-forth i don't give a crap if the belt changes hands 5 times next year alone, as long as it's between these two men.

this is what wrestling is about, and if ROH does it right, they've got a story that won't end until one man retires.

I greatly agree with this and indeed have the hope and faith that we will be in store for a tremendous ride that began on Saturday night!

[CurbsideHero]

PWG has feuds. PWG had Steen and Generico go to WAR last year. They teamed at BOLA this year but that was out of hate for the Bucks and Brian Cage Taylor, Generico went for a handshake after the match but Steen flipped him of, Generico grabbed Steens arm and pulled him back and flipped him off, Steen laughed and left the ring. Cole also worked the tournament as a Heel as he used to in CZW. PWG does seem to ignore ROH in the way they still have Davey, O'Reilly and Cole team up.

The Ladder Match Steen and Generico had at SteenWolf was amazing. Probably one of the best I've ever seen. They def hate each other but no reference to ROH is ever brought up directly.

I think ROH did the only thing they could have done with Steen. A match at Final Battle for the title was the only was that PPV was gonna draw, when I though it was going to be Steen and Lethal, I wasn't going to go all the way to NY, now, I'm getting tickets tomorrow and making the trip down.

[Burnside]

All in all, I'm happy to see Generico returning in some capacity.

There are problems with it. As was mentioned earlier, the fact that they have to revisit a feud from two years ago in order to do something that's actually over really does highlight how underwhelming the booking has been for most of the past two years, and particularly the past 16 months.

Second, much like the Jay Lethal angle took all the heat off Steen/Elgin, this angle takes all the heat off Steen/Lethal. Who gives a fuck about the Steen-Lethal match we're now going to have as the main event of Final Battle when all anybody is going to care about is "When is Generico coming?"

[Marketh.]

All in all, I'm happy to see Generico returning in some capacity.

There are problems with it. As was mentioned earlier, the fact that they have to revisit a feud from two years ago in order to do something that's actually over really does highlight how underwhelming the booking has been for most of the past two years, and particularly the past 16 months.

Second, much like the Jay Lethal angle took all the heat off Steen/Elgin, this angle takes all the heat off Steen/Lethal. Who gives a fuck about the Steen-Lethal match we're now going to have as the main event of Final Battle when all anybody is going to care about is "When is Generico coming?"

Steen/Lethal at Final Battle became very unlikely as soon as Steen said his demand to have no more matches with Lethal was met.

[fm20000]

I actually like that the Lethal thing is getting pushed off now. Now we have multiple believable title contenders for Steen. Last month it seemed like there were no real contenders. Now we have Elgin once he's done his feud with Roddy, Lethal if he can get the ban lifted, and Generico whenever he decides to return. It's way more unpredictable to who will actually win. The last few reigns we all knew who was winning the belt the second the previous champion won it.

[Burnside]

All in all, I'm happy to see Generico returning in some capacity.

There are problems with it. As was mentioned earlier, the fact that they have to revisit a feud from two years ago in order to do something that's actually over really does highlight how underwhelming the booking has been for most of the past two years, and particularly the past 16 months.

Second, much like the Jay Lethal angle took all the heat off Steen/Elgin, this angle takes all the heat off Steen/Lethal. Who gives a fuck about the Steen-Lethal match we're now going to have as the main event of Final Battle when all anybody is going to care about is "When is Generico coming?"

Steen/Lethal at Final Battle became very unlikely as soon as Steen said his demand to have no more matches with Lethal was met.

Pretty sure the match is happening.

[MuayThai]

I'm not saying these guys have bad matches but they have wrestled each other so many times (and yes you have to count matches not in ROH) we have seen everything they can do with one another and they aren't going to top what they have done it the past

[JigsawVs.Jason]

All in all, I'm happy to see Generico returning in some capacity.

There are problems with it. As was mentioned earlier, the fact that they have to revisit a feud from two years ago in order to do something that's actually over really does highlight how underwhelming the booking has been for most of the past two years, and particularly the past 16 months.

Second, much like the Jay Lethal angle took all the heat off Steen/Elgin, this angle takes all the heat off Steen/Lethal. Who gives a fuck about the Steen-Lethal match we're now going to have as the main event of Final Battle when all anybody is going to care about is "When is Generico coming?"

Steen/Lethal at Final Battle became very unlikely as soon as Steen said his demand to have no more matches with Lethal was met.

Pretty sure the match is happening.

Steen vs Lethal II will happen you're right, but it won't be for the belt

[Burnside]

Steen vs Lethal II will happen you're right, but it won't be for the belt

I think Steen/Lethal will be for the belt, it will be at Final Battle, and Generico will make his return immediately after the match, not before. Steen vs Generico won't actually happen until the March or April 2013 iPPVs.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

that would be quitwe a disappointment, why would you save the biggest match they can deliver for another show, when you can have it at the biggest show of the year, doesn't make much sense to me, and fans would not be as into the Lethal/Steen match I'd guess

[187_Joeism]

I think they are doing a good job with Lethal, he will chase Steen after Final Battle for the belt.

[Burnside]

that would be quitwe a disappointment, why would you save the biggest match they can deliver for another show, when you can have it at the biggest show of the year, doesn't make much sense to me, and fans would not be as into the Lethal/Steen match I'd guess

I agree. Unfortunately I think it's what they're doing.

[RoaringElbow]

PWG has feuds. PWG had Steen and Generico go to WAR last year. They teamed at BOLA this year but that was out of hate for the Bucks and Brian Cage Taylor, Generico went for a handshake after the match but Steen flipped him of, Generico grabbed Steens arm and pulled him back and flipped him off, Steen laughed and left the ring. Cole also worked the tournament as a Heel as he used to in CZW. PWG does seem to ignore ROH in the way they still have Davey, O'Reilly and Cole team up.

The Ladder Match Steen and Generico had at SteenWolf was amazing. Probably one of the best I've ever seen. They def hate each other but no reference to ROH is ever brought up directly.

I think ROH did the only thing they could have done with Steen. A match at Final Battle for the title was the only was that PPV was gonna draw, when I though it was going to be Steen and Lethal, I wasn't going to go all the way to NY, now, I'm getting tickets tomorrow and making the trip down.

Your argument to prove PWG has feuds is to cite that they had Steen & Generico hate each other the year after ROH had steen & Generico hate each other?

[Wrestlingisback]

With the reports that Generico hasn't signed with ROH, and Sinclair still smarting from the Kenny King deal (though I can't conceive that scenario happening with Generico), I could see Steen/Generico happening at FB with Steen going over and the road to Lethal getting the title beginning soon after. Not sure how I feel about that.
Makes sense in a way (Not even Steen greatest rival could stop his reign of terror, it's the "darkest" time in ROH history, Lethal does something cliche like put his career on the line for one last shot, he wins). Plus, you get another Steen/Generico match but it's almost like throwing the long-time fans a bone and then moving in the same direction they have been