Down With Negativity - The Bright Side of ROH

[ahicks1130]

What's there to really understand? It's a sport over there. Talented workers facing talented workers in quality matches. There aren't any storylines to speak of, so I', confused why you don't know what's going on.

I need commentary. I just lose interest listening to japanese. Just not as entertaining to me.

I'm confused by this. Give me examples of your point, of a worker hitting a "People's Elbow like move" and the opponent stalling for five minutes. Oh, and apparently dancing goes on during all of this. They can't show the old WWF logo due to a trademark dispute with the World Wildlife Foundation, so your point is out the window there. The head/neck aspect is only for their Saturday morning show, and even then that's hardly the case if you actually watch the matches. So I'm confused on what you seem to be comparing.

I was referring to them blurring their own logo from the Saturday show in fear of children seeing it, not the WWF. Give examples of the People's Elbow wannabees - John Cena's five knuckle shuffle. Kofi Kingston's boom leg drop. I believe Sandow has something but I watch little WWE these days.

Yet Matt Hardy being in ROH isn't a problem? At least Jeff is still over and can produce good matches when he's motivated. Matt is a bland, vanilla worker who doesn't distinguish himself in any way, not to mention the guy is a total nut in real life. So you're faulting TNA for doing something your beloved ROH is doing? (Didn't Jeff also also show up "drugged out of his mind" in 2009 or 2010?)

Matt Hardy is there to put over Adam Cole, not pushed as the top guy in the company, big difference. I presume you meant Matt in the last sentence, but I'm not saying ROH is right for bringing him in. If Jeff Hardy was putting Kaz over at the mid-card level I wouldn't have issue.

Pushing Jeff Hardy hoping he'll resign a contract? Sounds extremely similar to what ROH did with Kenny King earlier this summer. So again I ask: Why are you faulting TNA for things ROH has recently done/is doing?

They weren't giving a guy who wasn't under contract a world title push on the biggest show of the year, basically building the company around a guy who could bolt at any second.

Actually, it does. Sinclair owns the company, thus if Sinclair has the money it's not illogical to assume they should be putting more money into ROH's production.

We have no idea what kind of budget ROH is actually working off of. They could be blowing it, or they could be doing the best they can with the resources available. We don't know.

You are aware that's automated based upon a list a computer system reads, correct?

Believe me, I'm pretty well aware of how both the IT function and accounting function works. Point is, I asked for a certain % off instead of a free dvd or refund. Somebody had to clear it first, and then go into their system and set the discount code up. It's not as simple as an automated program reading my name off of my email and knowing which discount % I wanted. It was a customization. A small customization, but one nevertheless.

The Headbangers, Matt Hardy, WGTT, QT Marshall.... They are choosing to invest money (They apparently don't have in your eyes) on subpar talent that isn't enticing fans. So I disagree with "they are doing the best with what they have". If they listened a quarter as much as what you are claiming, they would realize most fans simply don't care about WGTT right now, or that QT Marshall isn't accepted, or that nobody in the world was waiting to see if The Headbangers would emerge in ROH. I should point out as well many have brought up several names that they would love to see in ROH (SSB, for starters) and ROH refuses to listen, choosing instead talentless hacks like QT Marshall or WWE/TNA rejected midcarders who have "name value".

Guys like the Headbangers, Hardy, Marshall may only be there for a breif run. I have no problem with that. I like mixing up the roster. Bringing in guys from outside to put over established wrestlers. It doesn' tbother me.

[ahicks1130]

If I were a White Sox fan, I would be filled with self loathing too, and be unable to keep it from spilling out in the form of negativity.

Hilarious, and unfortunately so true. I wish I believed in the Sox to hold onto first as much as I did ROH.

[MidnightHouseRocker]

I just want to point out A LOT of the guys on the ROH roster do not need putting over at this stage. And if they do, it needs to be by the guys that are the best out there, not by a group of has-beens. Sorry, I don't think the Briscoes beating The Headbangers is quite Andre - Hogan in terms of passing the torch or Adam Cole beating Matt Hardy. Adam Cole has already been involved in two MOTYC candidates this year, won the 2012 PWG Battle of Los Angeles, the ROH TV title, and is now beginning a feud with Kevin Steen for the PWG World title... I don't think he needs a win over Matt Hardy as a feather in his cap.

[Mdodmod]

The crowd for Border Wars in Toronto was one of the biggest audiences ROH has had in that building.

[DieHard]

The crowd for Border Wars in Toronto was one of the biggest audiences ROH has had in that building.

Wasn't THE biggest?

[Duke of Bridgewater]

I know it's easy to get frustrated if you're a die hard watching every show since ROH's inception, but when you look with perspective, ROH is still the best promotion in the world in my opinion.

You really can't see the type of wrestling ROH offers anywhere else.

It's better to judge ROH on how it's compared to other promotions and what's realistically possible, rather than just looking at the past, indeed. Otherwise we are like the old guys on WrestlingClassics ("The territories were great, todays local wrestling sucks, period.")
I see the type of wrestling ROH offers at many places, but as far as I know, there is no promotion in America running that many shows per year. Others usually run about once per month, or a triple header quarterly, so it' a bit different.

The championships still have meaning, you see great matches on every show, it's the one company you can tell people you love without being ashamed.

There are other championships that mean something too, while many promotions use it just as a prop. There have been different philosophies about this at all times. Back in the day, W(W)WF titles meant a lot, Memphis titles meant close to nothing. But I consider this an asset for ROH too.
You can love whatever sport or type of entertainment you love for whatever reason. No need to be ashamed.

Look at the WWE, the matches appear in slow motion, catering to 5 year olds. TNA continues to ride the likes of Jeff Hardy & the Hulkster. Give me Davey and Eddie any day.

If that's not the style of wrestling you like, there is no need to look at WWE and TNA at all. ROH is supposed to be good because it's good, not because others are bad.

It's just my opinion, and you're entitled to your opinions as well, but you can't stop supporting ROH because they have hit a bump in the road.

Fans seeing themselves as supporters rather than consumers can be a part of the problem. They may expect more than they actually paid for, just because of their "support".
On the other side, when you don't buy a show because they don't provide what you want to see from them, it's your own decision. You don't have to fund other people's hobby.
Of course it's a good decision to support a promotion when you think they are on a good way. You help them to improve, hopefully to produce what you consider good wrestling.

Yeah, there have been problems with the ippvs but they are a young, underfunded company. You can say this doesn't happen with DGUSA or Evolve, but they don't have the number of buys ROH does. Ippv is not a fully developed means of delivering a product. It will take time. I appreciate the fact that ROH is at least trying to bring the product to me instead of having to wait for dvd.

I don't watch iPPV live (because of the time zones) and I rarely use VOD. I prefer MP4 downloads and DVDs. So when I learn about the next iPPV disaster I'm not angry at them because they actually ruined my viewing pleasure, but I think "You incompetent ... are killing ROH!" In the not so far future, Internet and TV will more or less merge. When $5 Wrestling can produce an iPPV that works, an experienced TV network should better be able to do the same.

ROH is trying hard. Stick with them!

If you like what you see, or if you think they are on a good way, stick with them indeed!

In my opinion, ROH's weekly TV is worth to watch. They produce good matches and don't ruin it with stupid talk, fireworks and all this crap mainstream wrestling throws in. I watch wrestling to see wrestlers wrestle. ROH usually delivers this.
(But other do too and often better, by my personal definition of good wrestling.)

[HarpoonIPA]

The first thing that came to mind was Patrick Edwards has an account here now.

[Mdodmod]

The crowd for Border Wars in Toronto was one of the biggest audiences ROH has had in that building.

Wasn't THE biggest?

Very well could have been. I haven't been to every show at the Ted Reeves Arena, but I did attend at least 75% and it was the biggest of all those by a good margin. That includes Death Defore Dishonor VIII: Davey Richard vs. Tyler Black.

[Nigel LikesGuinness]

I am a lot closer to the original poster in my beliefs than the majority it looks like. Unless it is of everyones belief that almost 8 years ago I was also planted here by ROH officials to one day defend them?

I love how there can be 20+ negative posts but if someone wants to be positive about this great company on a ROH board and its suddenly "burn the witch" "he is a plant by ROH"

Glad someone else wanted to be positive

[ahicks1130]

Thanks Nigel! It's like by supporting the company I'm immediately Patrick Edwards in disguise, sent here to convert ROH whiners one at a time.

It seems like there is just something about wrestling that makes people think nothing is ever as good as it once was. I don't think ROH is at 2006 levels, but there is a lot of good stuff in ROH right now. But I'm a bad guy because I like to sit back and enjoy instead of saying "I hate WGTT!!!"

[icyhot]

Positives....
hmmm. The TV show is pretty decent I guess? They still use some guys I'm a fan of. That's a plus.

[KenSmellsGood]

I enjoy a lot about the show. Even some of the negatives are positives in my eyes. Some examples of "Positive Negatives" in my eyes are Charlie Haas and his over-the-top bitterness and Mike Mondo and his almost childlike "tough guy" act. When I attended ROH live I met Charlie Haas and he was very humble and soft spoken, and when he came out with that "I'm pissed off look" and started yelling things like "What? Yeah? Well your mom sucks!" and "Oh yeah? Well fuck you too!!!" I almost died laughing. The thing with Mondo is that although it's entertaining to watch him come out with his arms puffed out to the side and hear him talk like a 10 year old, he's legitimately tough.

The obvious positives are match quality, the whole Steen storyline, any time the Brisco Brothers have a mic, and their rich history. The impact that Ring of Honor has on wrestling today is amazing. CM Punk and Austin Aries are the champions of the top two organizations. Despite the WWE's pathetic treatment of the Daniel Bryan match, two superstars cut from the ROH cloth headlined the last Wrestlemania. I'm sure I speak for most of us when I say that I often ponder how many of the current ROH guys are going to partake in these kinds of roles over the next decade.

[supersonic]

Patrick Edwards should be hired by Roger Goodell.

[taxidriver77]

Despite the WWE's pathetic treatment of the Daniel Bryan match, two superstars cut from the ROH cloth headlined the last Wrestlemania.

Rock and Cena?

[Colt45]

Things I like about ROH:

Steen, Cole, Jacobs, and Corino are champions.

Nigel is on commentary. Kevin Kelly sucks the big one though. Seriously hate that guy.

Richards, Lethal, Roddy, and Edwards are all good workers to have at the core of the program. None of them can cut a decent promo though, that's why the champs are champs

Briscoes are still around.

Talented guys like Elgin, O'Reilly, Ciampa are all on their way up.

[McXal]

There is plenty of stuff I like about ROH right now. There's lots of bright young talent on the roster that I like watching (O'Reilly, Cole, Elgin, Ciampa, Bennett (yeah, I said it), Cedric, Tadarius), plenty of supporting non-wrestling players that I think add to the show (Nana, RD Evans, Veda Scott, Nigel McGuinness, Maria)...and (for now at least) there are main event level wrestlers that I've watched for years now and still love their work (Steen, Davey, Eddie & Roddy).

So yeah, I have plenty to be positive about. Content wise, I think the TV show is consistently pretty decent. The quality of house shows has improved and, when it comes to big shows, I think they still produce the goods too. And, lets give them some credit - with QT, Tadarius, ACH and more all being given the chance to perform, there is at least some focus on getting in some fresh young talent.

BUT, to me, the things ROH are getting wrong are starting to overshadow all the good things they are doing (and to be clear, they ARE doing lots of good stuff). Bringing in Matt Hardy, even to put Adam Cole over, is a questionable use of funds. Jim Cornette as a heel authority figure in 2012? The continued inability to book Kevin Steen properly. Rhino in main events of major iPPV's? Mike Mondo being pushed so hard. And that's before you get over the inexplicable attitude towards their pathetic internet ppv record thus year.

That's my concern, there is a lot to be positive about. But it's getting harder and harder to focus on it as ROH and Sinclair continues to blunder on so many levels with other aspects of the company.

[YimYac]

Despite the WWE's pathetic treatment of the Daniel Bryan match, two superstars cut from the ROH cloth headlined the last Wrestlemania.

Rock and Cena?

Losing in 18 seconds was the best thing that ever happened to Bryan's career

[Tree]

I'm actually not even that sour on the product in 2012. I'm not going to bang my head against the wall demanding this federation to be dripping with can't-miss shows.

What I will do is call out gimmicks like you who are sent here by ROH/SBG to put out an over-the-top post attempting to overcome the federation's brutally visible shortcomings. Nobody in 2012 genuinely feels that much joy towards ROH.

i was going to respond to your windbag post of negativity, but it's the same pile of crap you've been spewing almost since this board started - you're as much a gimmick poster as the person you're attempting to call out as a gimmick poster.

and you're wrong. it's 2012, and i still love ROH - no, it's not 2004-2007, when i was literally going to every show, driving hundreds of miles with all sort of folks from what Jeff Schwartz (who, i am amazed, was banned from this board while you were not) calls the Name Drop Xpress.

i relocated from the east coast, so going to ROH regularly isn't an option for me. but it's still fantastic stuff. negative gimmick posters like you have always been around, and always will be, and quite frankly, nothing ROH does will make you happy - even if they became everything you wanted, you'd find something to complain about.

i still scrape up the cash to fly in for the shows i can - always the 'Mania shows, usually FB (although this year my dad's birthday in NYC coming a few weeks after FB makes it challenging), certain other shows as well. ROH is fun, and wrestling is fun, if you allow yourself to have fun. if you're expecting wrestling to be something it isn't, you're just not going to enjoy it - which is why i think your gimmick is to be negative (so you get attention), and why i think you won't be happy no matter what ROH does.

[Nigel LikesGuinness]

Well Said Tree.....also agree that its amazing that Jeff was banned but others get to stick around

Its amazing how many cycles I have witnessed of ROH is the best/worst company in the world

[Ladrao12]

Well, while I'm all for positivity, when you've seen ROH at its best and look at it now, there is a COMPLETE difference. They've lost so much great talent and haven't replaced it with much, and they continue to lose a lot of the fan favorites. Their iPPVs are affordable but lack quality, I'm not sure they've had an iPPV without a giant mistake. I'll continue to support them too, but idk for how long.