Matt Hardy (At DBD X, Rumored to be at Final Battle)

[YimYac]

What's personal about it cost X amount of money to fly in the Bucks, it cost X amount of money to fly in WGTT, WGTT probably draw a higher booking fee (based on their fame), so it would be cheaper to book the Bucks?

Opinion. You have no facts to back anything you just said here up. Nobody here knows how much talent gets paid or how much their flights cost.

Nothing's personal about that. It's looking at factual and logically assumed numbers

So you just made it up?

What's personal about Rhino main eventing an iPPV does X amount of buys and El Generico main eventing does X amount of buys, which are roughly the same?

What are you even trying to say here?

Nothing's personal about that. It's looking at factual and logically assumed numbers.

So you have nothing to back this up and just made it up?

Instead I have referred to factual numbers and assumed logic. It's you who is changing your story every couple of seconds, trying to hide from it, and then using personal anecdotes and opinion to back up your claims - not me.

Pot meet kettle.

[syxxpakk]

Opinion. You have no facts to back anything you just said here up. Nobody here knows how much talent gets paid or how much their flights cost.

That's why it's logically assumed. I can easily go to Orbitz and book a flight for two from Reseda to New York. I can follow that up by booking a flight for two from Houston to New York. I can then compare those prices. I can logically assume that Haas/Benjamin have a higher booking fee than the Bucks (because, historically speaking, the bigger the name - the bigger the booking fee; that's why a booking fee for Kurt Angle will be higher than a booking fee for Scorpio Sky). That's where the numbers come from. That's not "opinion" based or mired in personal anecdotes like "I once heard a crowd boo Kevin Steen."

Let me ask you this: I have never once had a problem with you, Joe, or anyone else for enjoying ROH and what they're doing. If you guys like it, good for you. But why is it when people aren't happy with something, you have to call them "whiners" and what not? Why do YOU have such a problem with people not enjoying something? Why do you feel the urge to speak down to posters? You're pretty smart, what's it hurt to be kind?

[DXvsNWO1994]

Everyone just think about this for a second...

Why is ROH having Rhino challenge Steen at Death Before Dishonor?.....So he can PUT STEEN OVER

Why is ROH potentially bringing in Matt Hardy to challenge Kevin Steen?.....So he can PUT STEEN OVER

It's pretty simple logic, really (from ROH's POV)

[syxxpakk]

Everyone just think about this for a second...

Why is ROH having Rhino challenge Steen at Death Before Dishonor?.....So he can PUT STEEN OVER

Why is ROH potentially bringing in Matt Hardy to challenge Kevin Steen?.....So he can PUT STEEN OVER

It's pretty simple logic, really (from ROH's POV)

I get all that, I just don't like the idea of it on major iPPVs - especially two of the historically biggest.

[YimYac]

That's why it's logically assumed. I can easily go to Orbitz and book a flight for two from Reseda to New York. I can follow that up by booking a flight for two from Houston to New York. I can then compare those prices. I can logically assume that Haas/Benjamin have a higher booking fee than the Bucks.

Again we don't know that. Flight prices can vary on a bunch of factors. How far the flight is booked in advance, where they fly out of, what site you use to book said flight, etc.

Also for all we know the Bucks and WGTT get paid the same amount. You can't just assume someone is paid X amount of dollars because they were in WWE.

That's where the numbers come from. That's not "opinion" based or mired in personal anecdotes like "I once heard a crowd boo Kevin Steen."

Except you have no numbers and that is in fact an opinion. Kevin Steen being booed is not an opinion it is a fact for anyone that has watched the TV show or seen some of the house shows with more casual crowds.

But why is it when people aren't happy with something, you have to call them "whiners" and what not? Why do YOU have such a problem with people not enjoying something? Why do you feel the urge to speak down to posters? You're pretty smart, what's it hurt to be kind?

I just don't see why someone that doesn't like ROH would still post on this forum. Wrestling fans are very petty and love to complain.

Edit: There is no point in continuing this conversation

[MuayThai]

ROH needs to stop trying to act like its anything more than a big indy with some TV deals they also need to stop spending money on guys that won't help the show like Hardy

[DXvsNWO1994]

Everyone just think about this for a second...

Why is ROH having Rhino challenge Steen at Death Before Dishonor?.....So he can PUT STEEN OVER

Why is ROH potentially bringing in Matt Hardy to challenge Kevin Steen?.....So he can PUT STEEN OVER

It's pretty simple logic, really (from ROH's POV)

I get all that, I just don't like the idea of it on major iPPVs - especially two of the historically biggest.

They could be talking about ANY iPPV. They never said FB, I recall them just saying an iPPV main event (The guy "guessed" FB in the article). For all we know that might be at the 11th Anniversary or something. PW Insider is just assuming (hence the "I'm guessing")

[syxxpakk]

Again we don't know that. Flight prices can vary on a bunch of factors. How far the flight is booked in advance, where they fly out of, what site you use to book said flight, etc.

Also for all we know the Bucks and WGTT get paid the same amount. You can't just assume someone is paid X amount of dollars because they were in WWE.

Yes, we do. You just choose not to accept it.

Except you have no numbers and that is in fact an opinion. Kevin Steen being booed is not an opinion it is a fact for anyone that has watched the TV show or seen some of the house shows with more casual crowds.

You're right, it's not an opinion - it's a personal anecdote. I watch the TV show every week and I've not really gotten that impression from the crowd, but I'm more inclined to equate that to the poor crowd micing than anything. And I don't bring that up as a counterpoint because personal anecdotes are unsubstantial.

I just don't see why someone that doesn't like ROH would still post on this forum. Wrestling fans are very petty and love to complain.

Who are you to tell someone what they do and don't like? That's a bit over the top. You do realize people can enjoy things and still complain about them? I enjoy my wife's cooking, but I still complain when she burns the food. I enjoy my job as a teacher, but I still complain when a parent chooses to show up because I took her child's cell phone up instead of when I sent home a progress report with a failing grade. Etc.

[syxxpakk]

They could be talking about ANY iPPV. They never said FB, I recall them just saying an iPPV main event (The guy "guessed" FB in the article). For all we know that might be at the 11th Anniversary or something. PW Insider is just assuming (hence the "I'm guessing")

That's why I've said, constantly, "if this happens" etc. Although in Rhino's case, it's happening.

[SteenMark23]

I don't care what draws, I don't care how many buys an iPPV gets. All I want is a product that I/WE can enjoy. It's not hard. Since 2/23/02, ROH was based around great wrestling with logical booking. Why they're deciding to do to the opposite is beyond me. Cary Silkin always said "we give what the fans want", now it seems like SBG/Cornettes motto is "fuck what the fans want".

[YimYac]

Yes, we do. You just choose not to accept it.

I appreciate the numbers you've provided here

You're right, it's not an opinion - it's a personal anecdote. I watch the TV show every week and I've not really gotten that impression from the crowd, but I'm more inclined to equate that to the poor crowd micing than anything. And I don't bring that up as a counterpoint because personal anecdotes are unsubstantial.

You can deny it but Steen has been getting boos from casual crowds, that is simply a fact

Who are you to tell someone what they do and don't like? That's a bit over the top. You do realize people can enjoy things and still complain about them? I enjoy my wife's cooking, but I still complain when she burns the food. I enjoy my job as a teacher, but I still complain when a parent chooses to show up because I took her child's cell phone up instead of when I sent home a progress report with a failing grade. Etc.

My point was. I don't understand why anyone would willing be on a forum and talk about something they dislike.

I dislike TNA, know what I did? I stopped going to forum sections involving TNA, stopped watching TNA and avoided anything involving TNA because I don't care.

[syxxpakk]

I appreciate the numbers you've provided here

You provided them for me - "350-400." I've looked up the Orbitz #s before in another thread on this forum. Can't remember which, but look in my post history.

You can deny it but Steen has been getting boos from casual crowds, that is simply a fact

I've never denied he was getting boos - I even said that any lack of boos I might hear is probably because of crowd micing. I said that your (or my) personal anecdotes are unsubstantial. And you know they're casual crowds, how?

My point was. I don't understand why anyone would willing be on a forum and talk about something they dislike.

I dislike TNA, know what I did? I stopped going to forum sections involving TNA, stopped watching TNA and avoided anything involving TNA because I don't care.

My point is: who are you tell someone what they like and dislike? You can tell what YOU like and dislike, but you can't someone else what they like and dislike.

[YimYac]

You provided them for me - "350-400." I've looked up the Orbitz #s before in another thread on this forum. Can't remember which, but look in my post history.

I'm talking about pay numbers. You seem to know for a fact that WGTT gets paid more than the Bucks but I've not seen anything factual from you.

Also as I said airline tickets can vary based on a number of factors

1. What site you use to book them
2. How far in advance you book them
3. Departure area, date you leave and date you return, etc.

None of us can be sure how much travel costs+pay is for any of the wrestlers.

[Captain44]

I hope someone from ROH is lurking around and reads this. If Matt Hardy becomes a active member of ROH, I will stop with ROH all together. Why bring in someone like Matt Hardy when they are other young talent you can bring in to establish. I will give up on ROH all together.

[187_Joeism]

Where they said that Matt Hardy is going to be an active member? I only read he is going to start a programm to wrestle in FInal Battle (All of this assumptions)

[syxxpakk]

I'm talking about pay numbers. You seem to know for a fact that WGTT gets paid more than the Bucks but I've not seen anything factual from you.

Historical evidence - Hulk Hogan costs more than Ruckus.

Also as I said airline tickets can vary based on a number of factors

1. What site you use to book them
2. How far in advance you book them
3. Departure area, date you leave and date you return, etc.

None of us can be sure how much travel costs+pay is for any of the wrestlers.

Yes, they can. Are you implying that I should be ROH's travel agent for finding them good deals? Because like I said, if you use Orbitz - Reseda to Charlotte last week wasn't much more expensive than Houston to Charlotte. Like, a couple hundred dollars of difference.

[YimYac]

I'm talking about pay numbers. You seem to know for a fact that WGTT gets paid more than the Bucks but I've not seen anything factual from you.

Historical evidence - Hulk Hogan costs more than Ruckus.

Also as I said airline tickets can vary based on a number of factors

1. What site you use to book them
2. How far in advance you book them
3. Departure area, date you leave and date you return, etc.

None of us can be sure how much travel costs+pay is for any of the wrestlers.

Yes, they can. Are you implying that I should be ROH's travel agent for finding them good deals? Because like I said, if you use Orbitz - Reseda to Charlotte last week wasn't much more expensive than Houston to Charlotte. Like, a couple hundred dollars of difference.

I'm more interested in knowing how you obtained ROH's financial info to the point where you apparently know how much everyone makes and how much their travel cost is.

Edit: You know what I'm done with this conversation. We are talking in circles, feel free to continue if you want. This night is already going horrible considering Jerry Lawler could potentially be on his deathbed, I don't need to waste it arguing in circles with you.

[syxxpakk]

I'm more interested in knowing how you obtained ROH's financial info to the point where you apparently know how much everyone makes and how much their travel cost is.

I don't know exactly how much anyone makes. I can logically assume that Haas/Benjamin make more than the Bucks would.

I can also easily determine the costs of flights.

[Tree]

i'm excited about Matt Hardy in ROH. i think it adds a new dimension of crazy.

i also think it is beyond stupid for people to sit here and try and guess how much it costs to book and fly in wrestler A vs. how much it costs to book and fly in wrestler B, especially using Orbitz as a source. i mean, Orbitz?!!?! a site that doesn't even list every airline?!!? lol

so many different factors go into expenses vs. revenue.

[YimYac]

I'm more interested in knowing how you obtained ROH's financial info to the point where you apparently know how much everyone makes and how much their travel cost is.

I don't know exactly how much anyone makes. I can logically assume that Haas/Benjamin make more than the Bucks would.

I can also easily determine the costs of flights.

Except you can't. You can't at all. That is completely untrue and a blatant lie.

Neither of those is true at all