Official All-Star Extravaganza VII (PPV) Thread

[jordidebaas]

The one thing I didn't get is why would the kingdom and cole screw Kyle over before he won the belt? Wouldn't it be better I Kyle won the belt and then Cole attacks him after? Now you will have Cole feuding with Kyle building to final battle but with no title match. If I'm Adam Cole I would want him to have the title so that not only do I get to beat him but I get to take the one thing that means the most to him.

He's not screwing Kyle to get a shot at the champ. He's screwing him since he hates him. He doesn't want him to be the champ, because he hates him.

So if he hates Kyle so much, why not come out with the rest of his gang and just beat Kyle up? What is the point of pretending to be his friend for months?

It doesn't really make a lot of sense, but that wasn't what I was saying, I was just explaining why Cole didn't let Kyle win the world title.

[Thelone]

I don´t think the turn was TNAesque because in this case it makes sense, Cole never fight any Kingdom member during it or something.

It was the same stupid "they were in cahoots the whole time" swerve that you regularly see on Impact, but that's somehow acceptable here because it's ROH.

[187_Joeism]

Swerves do it right are good, it doesn´t matter the promotion.

[Big Red Machine]

Swerves do it right are good, it doesn´t matter the promotion.

Not when they derail an interesting creative direction for the sake of a stale one, and when they wind up giving you f*ck finishes in top PPV matches when you only have four PPVs a year and are charging people $35 for them.

[187_Joeism]

Do you think Cole as a face in the long run would have been good? I think it was cool at first because it was something new but him as heel it´s the best.

[IchaelMelgin]

Castle losing his boys is DEVASTATING! But the segments for this should be gold and Dalton's chase for his boys back will be a great storyline. Dalton & Silas are golden gimmicks in 2015 who compliment each other perfectly. This was my MOTN



Found the return of ANX a bit meh and don't like them pinning the Briscoes at all. And I can totally do without whatever they're trying to do with Romantic Touch



Moose/Cedric was a pleasant surprise. No as good as the Page/ACH No DQ on the last PPV, but a really fun chaotic match. I've underestimated Moose in the past perhaps.



Some overbooking on the show, but the take away from it with the Cole/O'Reilly stuff was fine. I was enjoying Cole's face run, though I still like this. The red mask in the tag title match was a bit much though. I'm assuming that was Cole?





Not one of my fav ROH supercards of the year though on the whole, like I mentioned, hints of overbooking, plus the crowd didn't sound amazing

[Thelone]

Do you think Cole as a face in the long run would have been good? I think it was cool at first because it was something new but him as heel it´s the best.

You can't know if you don't try. All that so you can have nine New Japan gaijins feud over... I don't know, the tag titles for the umpteenth time and who is the least over between Bennett, Taven and Elgin ?

[Marketh.]

Oh, it's easily Bennett. Taven may not get heat, but he can at least get pops for some cool, athletic spots. Bennett can't even get smarky references over in a promotion with a mostly-smarky audience.

[JTCole]

There was a guy at the recent Atlanta show screaming "FUCK YOU BENNETT" during his match like every 10 seconds.

[Marketh.]

It's about time he actually got someone riled up.

[JTCole]

It's about time he actually got someone riled up.

Well the guy thought he was the worst wrestler to ever work for ROH.

[Big Red Machine]

Do you think Cole as a face in the long run would have been good? I think it was cool at first because it was something new but him as heel it´s the best.

At the very least it would have provided some fresh match-ups, both with Cole as a babyface and with Future Shock as a team. You can have him spend the rest of the year feuding with the Kingdom so you have time to really set up something important for him to do as a babyface in 2016.

And that's all assuming that you couldn't do something awesome with it right away like have Aries replace him in the Kingdom and build up FutureDRagon vs. The New Kingdom (as multiple people here suggested).

[187_Joeism]

Do you think Cole as a face in the long run would have been good? I think it was cool at first because it was something new but him as heel it´s the best.

At the very least it would have provided some fresh match-ups, both with Cole as a babyface and with Future Shock as a team. You can have him spend the rest of the year feuding with the Kingdom so you have time to really set up something important for him to do as a babyface in 2016.

And that's all assuming that you couldn't do something awesome with it right away like have Aries replace him in the Kingdom and build up FutureDRagon vs. The New Kingdom (as multiple people here suggested).

That´s a good idea, but i prefer having Cole vs Kyle over that, you could make Kyle as a singles guy with the Cole feud.

Cole as face is like Steen as face, it´s cool and fun but it´s wasting their talent.

[Big Red Machine]

Do you think Cole as a face in the long run would have been good? I think it was cool at first because it was something new but him as heel it´s the best.

At the very least it would have provided some fresh match-ups, both with Cole as a babyface and with Future Shock as a team. You can have him spend the rest of the year feuding with the Kingdom so you have time to really set up something important for him to do as a babyface in 2016.

And that's all assuming that you couldn't do something awesome with it right away like have Aries replace him in the Kingdom and build up FutureDRagon vs. The New Kingdom (as multiple people here suggested).

That´s a good idea, but i prefer having Cole vs Kyle over that, you could make Kyle as a singles guy with the Cole feud.

You could have made Kyle as a singles guy by letting him put on an amazing main event with Jay Lethal instead of only giving them fourteen minutes and overbooking it to hell.

[JTCole]

Turning Cole right now just screams Bagwell 1998 heel turn. Sure both guys are better as heels but at least give the face run a shot.

[TYFDK]

I don´t think the turn was TNAesque because in this case it makes sense, Cole never fight any Kingdom member during it or something.

It was the same stupid "they were in cahoots the whole time" swerve that you regularly see on Impact, but that's somehow acceptable here because it's ROH.

Why's that stupid? I'll take a surprise I didn't see coming over the same old heel-face turn. It freshens things up.

[Big Red Machine]

I don´t think the turn was TNAesque because in this case it makes sense, Cole never fight any Kingdom member during it or something.

It was the same stupid "they were in cahoots the whole time" swerve that you regularly see on Impact, but that's somehow acceptable here because it's ROH.

Why's that stupid? I'll take a surprise I didn't see coming over the same old heel-face turn. It freshens things up.

Just because you don't see it coming doesn't make it good. You probably wouldn't have seen it coming if instead of rejoining the Kingdom, Cole had started making out with Jay Lethal after the match and revealed that they were secret lovers all along.
It's stupid because there will be no adequate explanation for why the Kingdom decided to concoct this whole complicated scheme where they would pretend to break up and have Cole befriend Kyle and start to team with him just so that, on the chance that Kyle earned a world title shot, they could surprise everyone by screwing Kyle over.

What does the Kingdom gain out of this that they wouldn't have gained by turning on Kyle at any other time?

If they don't like Kyle, why did they feel the need to concoct a complicated long-term plan instead of just doing what a normal wrestler would do and just beating Kyle up three-on-one (which is surely a more effective way of hurting him)?

Until these questions are adequately answered, this angle will remain stupid.

[TYFDK]

It was a ruse. He couldn't get Kyle's trust if he was still with the Kingdom. Cole saw the newfound singles success O'Reilly was having, got jealous, and made up this whole plan to get him on his side, only to turn on him at the most critical moment of his career, at a place where there'd be a ton of eyes watching. His lackeys, the Kingdom, then came out to celebrate with him and show that they were never broken up, and that they were in on it the entire time.

[Thelone]

Why's that stupid? I'll take a surprise I didn't see coming over the same old heel-face turn. It freshens things up.

Except it didn't freshen a goddamn thing ! We're back to where thing were four months ago.

The turn is stupid because it makes no sense whatsoever and I don't want to hear some shitty excuse like "he's a heel AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DO" or "this was the plan all along" when there was no fucking plan in the first place. Cole vs. O'Reilly isn't going to be this epic blood feud of doom with three months of build-up and a goofy nonsensical swerve.

[Big Red Machine]

It was a ruse. He couldn't get Kyle's trust if he was still with the Kingdom. Cole saw the newfound singles success O'Reilly was having, got jealous, and made up this whole plan to get him on his side, only to turn on him at the most critical moment of his career, at a place where there'd be a ton of eyes watching. His lackeys, the Kingdom, then came out to celebrate with him and show that they were never broken up, and that they were in on it the entire time.

Except that the Kingdom "break-up" started before Kyle had earned this world title shot, so that doesn't quite work.
And even if it did, that doesn't explain why, if the plan is to stop Kyle from being coming champion, they didn't just try to stop him from wining matches so he would never earn a title shot. Or just injure him and put him out of wrestling forever. Or why they didn't just come out two seconds into this match and punch Lethal, causing Kyle to lose by DQ.

No matter how you slice it, this plan was completely and totally contrived for the sake of having a f*cking stupid swerve that ruined a PPV main event.