ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Mr. Mojo Risin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:01 pm

...and I might add when monster mafia is shitting on Delirious, you know the ship is sinking.

But wait!

Roque 11 has to enlighten us that this is the greatest signing since Vince stole Giant Gonzales from WCW.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby FanSinceHDNet » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:35 pm

Brada wrote:Hell, they better start getting Glacier lined up for when Scurll is done with Anderson.

But I'm with Sweet Daddy. I agree with bringing Anderson in............................not to wrestle Marty though.

Bring Anderson into the Dojo, so Cheeseburger and Will Ferrara can teach that no talent hack how to work.

How are they making these ridiculous decisions with a straight face?

Ken Anderson??? He won't sell a SINGLE ticket. There won't be a SINGLE person that paid to be in that audience that decided to go to the show because Mr. Whatever his name is these days is booked.

Ken Anderson and Vinny Lasagna on the same card, now there is a toss up for who sends the fans to the hot dog line quicker.


Ever since we had that ticket thread a while back and someone on here showed how to backwards calculate how many tickets for each show were left/sold (aka go to the ticket website and count), I peak at the sales. Both Unauthorized and Masters of the Craft have been selling, well. On Sunday Morning, it looked like there were, by my count, 78 non-GA tickets left for Masters of the Craft. That number is down to 31. I'm not saying Anderson sold those 47 tickets (and whatever general admission tickets were sold) but I would wager at least one, if not more than one, person bought a ticket to see him.

Those are $25 tickets that are left. 47 tickets sold at $25, before whomever takes their cut, is $1175. If I read correctly, he's a MN guy now so they're probably not paying trans or hotel. He's probably worth the money as a one-time attraction if he gets ROH over the finish line and sells out the building.

With all that said, I saw a tweet, I think from VOW, that said the ROH of the past has been gone for 8 years. I think that is the key to remember. Even back when "the old ROH" was around, they'd bring in a name or two to pop a house or even run with a title (Jerry Lynn, anyone?). But now, more than ever, the key is reaching out to those more casual fans who aren't on the internet but watch every week on their local affiliates. Or those that see "WRESTLING" on a poster or Facebook post and whose curiosity is piqued. Realistically, Anderson has been on national TV on and off for the better part of the last 12 or 13 years and he's local - he'll sell some tickets and probably already has.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby monster mafia » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:47 pm

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:...and I might add when monster mafia is shitting on Delirious, you know the ship is sinking.

But wait!

Roque 11 has to enlighten us that this is the greatest signing since Vince stole Giant Gonzales from WCW.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ! i'm not blind men...mr kennedy was fun...10 years ago!

just read this on twitter

"Ken is part of a school in MN w Shawn Davari & Arik Cannon, Christopher Daniels is doing a seminar there the same week."
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby monster mafia » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:56 pm

no idea he was a local guy..
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby famicommander » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:51 pm

Ken Anderson isn't the worst wrestler in the world. He's nothing special and his slow motion spinning neckbreaker is pretty awful, but he's pretty entertaining on the mic and he's a known name.

It's certainly better than the Spirit Squad.

But yeah, nothing to get excited about either.

Could Ken Anderson be the mystery partner for Silas and the Bruiser?
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Big Red Machine » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:25 am

TowerOfDoom wrote:First Sonjay Dutt, now Mr Anderson. This reminds me of Roderick Strongs "Roddy vs The World" thing when he was champ from 2015-16

Yup. Except this time they didn't even bother to think up an excuse for it. Apparently ROH management is just giving out title shot to whoever comes by the office like candy on Halloween.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Big Red Machine » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:26 am

I have no problem with Anderson coming in and almost have no problem with him being granted a title shot because he is international wrestling star Ken Anderson, but it's yet another Scurll title defense against a guy who either isn't under contract or is on his way out the door. Marty has been champ for five months now is yet to have a single title defense where it felt like there was any chance of him losing.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Big Red Machine » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:36 am

FanSinceHDNet wrote:
Ever since we had that ticket thread a while back and someone on here showed how to backwards calculate how many tickets for each show were left/sold (aka go to the ticket website and count), I peak at the sales. Both Unauthorized and Masters of the Craft have been selling, well. On Sunday Morning, it looked like there were, by my count, 78 non-GA tickets left for Masters of the Craft. That number is down to 31. I'm not saying Anderson sold those 47 tickets (and whatever general admission tickets were sold) but I would wager at least one, if not more than one, person bought a ticket to see him.

Those are $25 tickets that are left. 47 tickets sold at $25, before whomever takes their cut, is $1175. If I read correctly, he's a MN guy now so they're probably not paying trans or hotel. He's probably worth the money as a one-time attraction if he gets ROH over the finish line and sells out the building.

With all that said, I saw a tweet, I think from VOW, that said the ROH of the past has been gone for 8 years. I think that is the key to remember. Even back when "the old ROH" was around, they'd bring in a name or two to pop a house or even run with a title (Jerry Lynn, anyone?). But now, more than ever, the key is reaching out to those more casual fans who aren't on the internet but watch every week on their local affiliates. Or those that see "WRESTLING" on a poster or Facebook post and whose curiosity is piqued. Realistically, Anderson has been on national TV on and off for the better part of the last 12 or 13 years and he's local - he'll sell some tickets and probably already has.


I think your analysis of what they are trying to do is correct, but I don't think it is really working- or if it is, ROH isn't taking advantage of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they've been running the same buildings in Milwaukee and Hopkins for a few years now and attendance has, in the case of Milwaukee been steady and in the case of Hopkins, shot up in 2015 but then dropped back down to "average" ROH 800 person levels by 2016. Anderson coming in and helping to sell out the building is nice, but if they're needing to bring in a "name" guy to sell out a building that they were selling out without him a few years ago, that's not a good sign.

Reaching out to the casual fans is good, but you have to give them something compelling to make them want to come back without needing to rely on Ken Anderson to draw them, and ROH has utterly failed at doing that and maintaining that over the past few years.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Brada » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:01 am

I agree that Ken Anderson isn't the worst wrestler in the world, however, he is FAR from the type of worker that ROH has built their foundation on.

I stand corrected on my original ticket statement, maybe he has accounted for some extra business. Fair enough.

I will say this though. Find me ONE, ONE single person in the building that night that believes that Anderson has a 1% chance of winning the match.

You will be looking all night long. The fact that Marty Scurll, who was supposedly a key signee less than 6 months ago, a guy that you threw the TV title on in his first weekend with the company, is already working a guy like Ken Anderson, is an absolute JOKE.

In regards to "recognizable names" that ROH has brought in the past, I would throw Mr.Whatever his name is now right in the group with Bushwacker Luke.

No, I'm not kidding.

Bushwacker Luke was a recognizable name when he was brought in to work with Grizzly Redwood. Bushwacker Luke put a hell of a lot more asses in seats that Mr.Whatever his name ever did.

I just don't get this one. My issue isn't so much with bringing him in as it is with pairing him with Scurll.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Thelone » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:18 am

The mere fact that Scurll has been facing pretty much only outside jobbers and guys who are about to leave is a joke. I would bet that if ROH didn't tour in the UK last year, Scurll would never have been signed in the first place (Ospreay doesn't count because he's never there anyway). Hell, even if the guy is leaving whenever his opt-out clause kicks in (they sure are doing NOTHING to make him want to stay), who the fuck did you even build up to take the belt off him ?
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby famicommander » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:58 am

Brada wrote:I agree that Ken Anderson isn't the worst wrestler in the world, however, he is FAR from the type of worker that ROH has built their foundation on.

I stand corrected on my original ticket statement, maybe he has accounted for some extra business. Fair enough.

I will say this though. Find me ONE, ONE single person in the building that night that believes that Anderson has a 1% chance of winning the match.

You will be looking all night long. The fact that Marty Scurll, who was supposedly a key signee less than 6 months ago, a guy that you threw the TV title on in his first weekend with the company, is already working a guy like Ken Anderson, is an absolute JOKE.

In regards to "recognizable names" that ROH has brought in the past, I would throw Mr.Whatever his name is now right in the group with Bushwacker Luke.

No, I'm not kidding.

Bushwacker Luke was a recognizable name when he was brought in to work with Grizzly Redwood. Bushwacker Luke put a hell of a lot more asses in seats that Mr.Whatever his name ever did.

I just don't get this one. My issue isn't so much with bringing him in as it is with pairing him with Scurll.

Ken Anderson is a 2X TNA World Heavyweight Champion, 1X WWE US Champion, and a Money in the Bank winner.

As far as I know Bushwacker Luke just won an assload of territorial tag team titles.

Not that I think Anderson is a great get, but he has more star power than you're giving him credit for.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Brada » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:15 am

Ken Anderson has more personal accolades, no question.

Bushwacker Luke put more butts in seats through out his career than Ken Anderson did, no question.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby theskeep » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:18 am

No offense, but a lot of you in here complaining about Kennedy are dumb as hell.

He's a name guy. There's no WAY Scurll doesn't want to work with him. I'm sure Scurll is excited as hell to work with a guy like that. Marty Scurll may be a name to YOU, indy wrestling fan, but to most american audiences, he's a complete nobody. This is a chance for him to wrestle Kennedy in a place where Kennedy will be OVER! Thus, the match will get over. And even if it doesn't, Scurll has had clunkers. I mean, he's pretty formulaic at times, with his finger snap spot, and all his other spots. His matches are fairly predictable at this point. And Kennedy's a name guy that helps to create a unique one of a kind match, a match that will make the show more complete. I swear, you guys watch a couple ROH shows and think you're promoters.

If you wanna complain about ROH, complain about other companies taking all their guys. It's a well known fact that the company that owns ROH doesn't place a lot of importance on wrestling. THAT is why your beloved ROH cards are suffering right now. They can't offer the deals that other places can. Spend more money on ROH, and you can help them out as a company. Your complaining on the internet, though.. that does nothing constructive at all.

ROH is drawing decently right now, even with all the guys that have departed. So I mean, even if YOU don't like Scurll/Kennedy, it's obvious that there's people out there that do. If you're really into "workrate" or whatever, whatever your whining about in here, then guess what, there's like 10 Ring of Honors out there! There's so many companies that book excellent matches all the time. Go seek those out!! Smartmarkvideo.com has a ton of shows uploaded all the time with great wrestling content. If you're not getting the "star ratings" you so desire, then go look for the better wrestling. Goddamn, though, the complaining in this thread especially is just something else.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby theskeep » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:24 am

One of the BEST parts of Ring of Honor over the years has been its ability to shine a spotlight on the wrestling ability of guys who previously weren't able to show it off elsewhere.

Case in point, James Gibson aka Jamie Noble. He had decent matches on Smackdown back in the day, with Mysterio and others. But he came to ROH and guess what? People saw him have some of the best matches on the card! Atleast give Kennedy a chance before you crap on him.


And you know what, the match might not be that great. I'm not guaranteeing that it'll be good. But I'd place more blame on the match sucking, if it does, on Delirious' booking. ROH used to take in ex-WWE guys and the guys would have awesome non-WWE-style matches. Nowadays, ROH matches mimic WWE matches more than anything. THAT is why the Kennedy/Scurll match would suck. And it hasn't even happened yet, so who are we to say how good it will be. But honestly, just let the matches happen before you hit the internet and start your crying and whining. And go buy some damn AAW shows, some Beyond Wrestling shows, some PWG shows, some AIW shows, Rev Pro, there's SO many companies. If you really want good wrestling, it's out there.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Brada » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:29 am

Couldn't disagree more.

Marty Scurll is FAR from a complete nobody.

The second Ken Anderson let's go of the microphone, he becomes Mr.Ordinary at best.

ROH is drawing decently right now, totally agree there. They aren't drawing well because of the Ken Anderson's, the Spirit Squad's, or the Sonjay Dutt's.

The focus of the issue here is the disconnect with the booking of Marty Scurll. Most here want Marty to have a lengthy stay in ROH, so one would think that aside from the pay, he would want to be invested creatively to stay.

Hard to get invested creatively against the Delirious's, the Dutt's, and Anderson's of the world.

There are a number of great companies out there, many of which I watch, as well as others...the reason you see some of the comments that you do is that a number of us have been ROH supporters for a number of years, and we want to see the product flourish the way it did in years past.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby FanSinceHDNet » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:21 am

I would wager that we're a very small minority of the ROH fan base. And I would wager that the recent surprises have added the element that anything can happen on these ROH shows that even some of the smarter can buy into.

I would furthermore wager that Marty Scurll is a big-time talent that ROH sees potential in and wouldn't want to waste the allure of him vs. Lethal, Daniels, Cody, etc. first-time matches on VOD shows in Minnesota. I would wager beyond that that Ken Anderson's accolades in the eyes of more casual fans stick out. Scurll absolutely gets one of the biggest reactions of anyone on the ROH cards. Why book yourself into a corner in a VOD match with two guys you don't want to lose? Or why waste it if you know the audience will be limited? That'd be a dumb business decision if you'd do something with him to a finish - unless its a schmozz to set up something on TV or PPV (which, they have been doing well with lately incorporating the VOD shows into the PPV/TV builds) or it is an audible when fortune throws you something you can't say no to in your lap (the Hardys), then you're throwing money out the window.

Secondly, this board complains when stars leave and don't put anyone over on the way out. Booking has Dijak, Rush, Cole etc. put over Scurll on the way out when a large majority of the fans have no idea that these folks are on the way out. Who do you want them fed to? They're doing the right thing, going out on their backs. Scurll reaps the rewards, especially in the eyes of ROH's target audience, Joe Schmoe with two kids in Cedar Rapids, picking up wins over these stars. I would wager, again, that smart fans make up only a very small portion of ROH's audience. And I would bet that very few even realized Dijak hasn't been on TV since his loss to Scurll.

The dreaded six month opt-out would be the War of the Worlds Tour and he's listed for those events. They have given him wins over just about everyone. I would agree that beyond the Rush series that he has not had a proper program but the spoilers from Baltimore seem to indicate they are setting up another one for him. I thought the build for his upcoming match against Kaz was built quite well, too, making it three programs he will have completed or taken part in in six months. Not too bad.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Big Red Machine » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:29 am

FanSinceHDNet wrote:I would wager that we're a very small minority of the ROH fan base. And I would wager that the recent surprises have added the element that anything can happen on these ROH shows that even some of the smarter can buy into.

I would furthermore wager that Marty Scurll is a big-time talent that ROH sees potential in and wouldn't want to waste the allure of him vs. Lethal, Daniels, Cody, etc. first-time matches on VOD shows in Minnesota. I would wager beyond that that Ken Anderson's accolades in the eyes of more casual fans stick out. Scurll absolutely gets one of the biggest reactions of anyone on the ROH cards. Why book yourself into a corner in a VOD match with two guys you don't want to lose? Or why waste it if you know the audience will be limited? That'd be a dumb business decision if you'd do something with him to a finish - unless its a schmozz to set up something on TV or PPV (which, they have been doing well with lately incorporating the VOD shows into the PPV/TV builds) or it is an audible when fortune throws you something you can't say no to in your lap (the Hardys), then you're throwing money out the window.

Secondly, this board complains when stars leave and don't put anyone over on the way out. Booking has Dijak, Rush, Cole etc. put over Scurll on the way out when a large majority of the fans have no idea that these folks are on the way out. Who do you want them fed to? They're doing the right thing, going out on their backs. Scurll reaps the rewards, especially in the eyes of ROH's target audience, Joe Schmoe with two kids in Cedar Rapids, picking up wins over these stars. I would wager, again, that smart fans make up only a very small portion of ROH's audience. And I would bet that very few even realized Dijak hasn't been on TV since his loss to Scurll.

The dreaded six month opt-out would be the War of the Worlds Tour and he's listed for those events. They have given him wins over just about everyone. I would agree that beyond the Rush series that he has not had a proper program but the spoilers from Baltimore seem to indicate they are setting up another one for him. I thought the build for his upcoming match against Kaz was built quite well, too, making it three programs he will have completed or taken part in in six months. Not too bad.


I'm not saying you're wrong that doing a random one-off with a top ROH guy at a show that will get no attention would feel like a waste, but the problem is that they've booked him the same way for shows like Manhattan Mayhem. If they had spent time actually building someone up as a challenger for the TV Title (even if it is a midcard guy like they did with Rush) people wouldn't be complaining as much about putting Scurll against the likes of Juice, Anderson, and Dutt. The way ROH has booked Marty Scull so far has not helped Marty and it has not helped anyone else, either.
The other issue with the way Scurll has been booked is that it shows an extreme over-protectiveness that hinders both the booking and the storytelling. The fact that Marty has been in the company for six months and has only been booked against guys who are either not ROH guys or are on their way out the door shows that they are afraid of him getting any sort of significant wins at any point if they think there is a possibility he might leave. That is being WAY too protective of your roster. Their are plenty of guys who would have been helped by losing in a strong match with ROH TV Champion Marty Scurll (basically anyone on the undercard and even some guys in the midcard), and even more guys who, at the very least, wouldn't have been hurt by it (MCMG, Colt Cabana). But instead of building those guys up and giving us those matches, Delirious seems to be so afraid of hurting anyone on the roster that he is just booking Scurll against guy whose win-loss records in ROH don't matter.
(This isn't the only area where this fear is hurting the product, BTW. The inability of heels to win cleanly as well as the lack of follow-up to the dirty finishes created by this have also dragged the product down very far.)
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Brada » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:08 am

VERY well put and articulated very well Big Red. I am dead on with you 100 % here.

The perception of Scurll would be FAR different had he had some better dance partners. I did personally like the Cole match, but I can't see the same magic in a match up with Mr....blah blah blah or a Sonjay Dutt, or a Lizard Man.....

Give Scurll something big.....let him go broadway with a guy like Lethal, that will turn some heads and elevate him without hurting Lethal.
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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby monster mafia » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:54 pm

good promo.

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Re: ROH Masters Of The Craft Official Thread

Postby Brada » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:18 am

Best Taven promo I have seen. Not bad at all.
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