Punk actually disrupting the humdrum locker room harmony?

[DougN]

There is beauty and storytelling in old school wrestling, but there's also beauty and storytelling in old movies that we don't see done today either. At a certain point, you've explored all aspects of it and it's time to move on. Doesn't mean there isn't room for it here and there, but everything moves on.

And like someone else here said, what we think about as old school wrestling was once trashed by the generation before it. Flair-Steamboat had its fair share of critics.

[supersonic]

https://twitter.com/snowboiiii/status/1 ... 4155132930

for the people who wanted aew to be a nice family happyland for some reason, their aew might have just ended. but for the real pro wrestling fans who love machiavellian political intrigue and a reality that is impossible to pin down, the real shit has finally started

CM Punk addresses Colt Cabana, AEW EVPs and Hangman Adam Page at post-All Out presser

[supersonic]

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/alte ... m-comments

An altercation that was described as “a melee” broke out between The Young Bucks and CM Punk following Punk’s comments at the AEW All Out media scrum on Monday morning.

On Wrestling Observer Radio, Bryan Alvarez reported multiple sources saying there was “an altercation” between the two parties after Punk gave comments during the media scrum. A security guard was seen running out of the scrum shortly after Punk left. Tony Khan was not informed of the situation until after the scrum wrapped up, and as of 1:41 am central time Monday, everyone was still in the building. Dave Meltzer described the situation as “a melee”.

Punk sounded off during Monday’s scrum, dismissing speculation regarding himself and Colt Cabana, who was moved to the Ring of Honor roster following Khan’s purchase of the company earlier this year. He eventually made negative remarks regarding Hangman Page for his promo prior to their match at Double or Nothing earlier this year, and accused “EVPs” of “spreading lies and bullsh*t” to the media.

[indyfan]

if this isnt a work, Ive lost all respect for Punk. hes completely unhinged

[DougN]

I agree, but I'll add lost respect for TK. If this isn't a work, then this company must be horrendous to work for. Legit.

It's gotta be a work though. I just think it's a really dumb work.

[supersonic]

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/cm-p ... ew-all-out

More details have emerged regarding an altercation between CM Punk, Ace Steel, Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks following the explosive Punk AEW All Out post-event press conference.

Punk didn't mention the Bucks or Omega by name in his pointed comments, but mentioned issues with the executive vice presidents of which the Bucks' Matt & Nick Jackson are along with Omega.

According to multiple sources that lined up with some of Fightful's reporting, there was a fight backstage afterward with Punk allegedly starting things by swinging fists at the Bucks' Matt Jackson. Punk trainer/friend and AEW producer Steel (part of the storyline that got Punk into Sunday's Jon Moxley match) threw a chair that hit the Bucks' Nick Jackson in the eye. Omega was also involved with Steel (Chris Guy) grabbing his hair and biting him.

As of this writing, no one involved, nor AEW, has commented publicly about the alleged incident, part of which is due to potential legal issues.

During the aforementioned media session, Punk targeted Colt Cabana, "irresponsible people that call themselves EVPs," Hangman Page and even MJF.

After bringing up and expounding on his issues with Cabana (Scott Colton), Punk said the following:

"Now, it’s 2022. I haven’t been friends with this guy since at least 2014, late 2013. The fact that I have to sit up here because we have irresponsible people who call themselves EVPs and couldn’t f*cking manage a Target and they spread lies and bullsh*t and put into the media that I got somebody fired when I have f*ck all to do with him, want nothing to do with him, do not care where he works, where he doesn’t work, where he eats, where he sleeps. And the fact that I have to get up here and do this in 2022 is f*cking embarrassing. And if y’all are at fault, f*ck you. If you’re not, I apologize.

What did I ever do in this world to deserve an empty-headed f*cking dumb f*ck like Hangman Adam Page to go out on national television and f*cking go into business for himself? For what? What did I do? What did I ever do? Didn’t do a goddamn thing."

AEW Tag Team Champions Swerve In Our Glory were talking to the media after Punk and a reporter caught security running backstage around the time the incident likely would have taken place.

[Montana]

What a mess… TK is in a tough spot , but maybe he should fire Punk (after he drops the title). I like how punk think it’s it’s the EVP leaking all these secrets with Punk. You can tell he’s mentally unstable, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to align that Colt stopped wrestling when Punk came in. Punk’s fault or not. It seems everything what hhh, page, Kingston, MJF and others have said about him were spot on.

[supersonic]

it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to align that Colt stopped wrestling when Punk came in.

Punk debuted in August 2021. Let's take a look at how quickly Cabana was pushed out the door after that.

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=994& ... search=AEW

Cabana was like a half-dozen or other dispensable jobber names on the roster that got phased out once it got deeper a year ago. All that bloat was gonna lead to some departures, especially since there's no pandemic shutdowns to pull on Khan's heartstrings and keep talent around to ensure they stay financially afloat.

It's obvious that Cabana was gonna have his contract run out since he has such little footprint on AEW TV, and yes, even though I believe Punk in no way advocated (not in the slightest) for Cabana to be fucked off, their history would further make Cabana indespensible. However, the Bucks used their EVP status to advocate for Cabana to be kept around and become an ROH staple again to keep him paid and have something to do once that brand gets off the ground again.

For whatever reason, these executives thought it was a good idea and example of leadership to continue using the dirt sheets to push their agendas, which has been the case for 5+ years now when they latched on to it to build their brand.

They were LUCKY to have a Cody on their roster who was willing to just turn the other cheek and not lash back at them in an uncomfortable fashion. But they are not ENTITLED to that. Just like they were NEVER entitled to the sense of storyline closure they pined over when they left NJPW and didn't get the sunset ending given previously to Devitt, Styles, and Nakamura.

[supersonic]

SPYWARE WARNING - https://www.pwinsider.com/article/16280 ... w.html?p=1

LOTS OF STORIES OF BACKSTAGE FIGHT AT AEW PPV, HERE IS WHAT WE KNOW
By Mike Johnson on 2022-09-05 18:39:00

For the MANY of you who have written us asking about what happened backstage at the AEW All Out PPV, I haven't been ignoring you but was out all day. Based on what we have heard from those in the company today, here is what we can ascertaine:

*After Punk finished venting his heart out at the AEW All Out Media Scrum, he returned to his locker room, where there was an altercation.

*Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks went to Punk's locker room and confronted him about his comments during the scrum.

*There was a physical altercation with Punk and Matt and Nick Jackson

*No one sharing stories is quite sure who threw the first punch.

*Kenny Omega was there but did not get into a physical altercation with Punk.

*Ace Steel arrived and did get involved as his wife was in the vicinity of the incident, possibly even inside Punk's locker room as she was watching over Punk's dog Larry. Steel was said to have gotten physically involved.

*A number of AEW staff and security hit the scene to break up the fracas and separate the Punk side from the Elite side.

*Once the sides were separated, they continued to argue for some time before The Bucks and Omega exited the area of Punk's locker room. There was a lot of yelling from each side.

*Tony Khan was not present at the incident at any point as he was still on stage for the media scrum.

*At least one of the Bucks late last night was said to be sporting a black eye.

*We have heard from a number of people in the company backing one side and blaming the other. Some were backing Omega and The Bucks, given Punk's comments, feeling Punk's verbal statements led to the incident and he was the guilty party. Others were backing Punk and questioning why EVPs stormed into his locker room, placing Punk in a situation where he would be outnumbered and that their decision to go there was partly responsible.

*Others are questioning how things will go down at TV this Wednesday given the situation involved the company's new champion, three EVPS and a Producer, all of whom are in positions of being leaders behind the scenes.

*The Bucks and Omega left Chicago earlier today.

*AEW is being very tight-lipped about the situation but the belief among those we've spoken with is the company is likely trying to determine where blame should be placed and what their course of action is going forward.

*It should be noted that over the course of the day, some of the stories around the incident have gotten more and more fantastical (as they were passed and on) and involved other names. In regard to FTR (who are close with Punk) and Hangman Page (close with the Elite, obviously), they were not present as they had all exited the NOW Arena after the PPV had concluded as they were not needed for the Media Scrum. They were not involved.

*There were some who had sympathy for MJF, feeling the situation overshadowed his return angle that closed the PPV and that the entire scenario has now deflected the attention from the PPV itself.

My editorial: fuck all those guys for putting Larry and Steel's wife in potential danger.

[DougN]

I really, truly do not know how people can defend Punk at this point. Guy sits down and UNPROMPTED just starts going on a rant about every little thing, while throwing three of the top stars in the company under the bus completely. Then dares someone to do something about it basically. And then people confront him -- GASP!

They are all being stupid for sure, but Punk is literally pissing gas on a fire at this point.

[indyfan]

Bobby Fish challenged Punk to an MMA fight. says he doesnt need Tonys ok anymore as hes a free agent.

[supersonic]

Who else remembers when the Bucks and Omega openly recruited talent away from NJPW to form AEW, then bitched in interviews later on that they weren't given the big farewell send-offs into the sunset that Devitt, Styles, and Nakamura were granted?

[DougN]

Who remembers when Devitt tried to do the same thing? And who remembers when Styles ACTUALLY did it?

[supersonic]

Who remembers when Devitt tried to do the same thing? And who remembers when Styles ACTUALLY did it?

They weren't trying to get in the way of NJPW's USA expansion plans, which AEW very clearly was.

[supersonic]

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/chri ... ons-update

This story has been updated at 8:15 PM Eastern.

Due to the ever-changing situation following the post-All Out backstage fight between CM Punk, Ace Steel, the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega, changes have been made to Wednesday's AEW Dynamite.

Dave Meltzer is reporting that two of those changes include former AEW World Champions Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley both appearing on Wednesday's Buffalo, New York, debut. Neither were originally scheduled to appear and it's unknown if they will be wrestling or simply doing promos.

Meltzer said there are suspensions stemming from the Sunday fight that was a result of Punk's post-All Out press conference comments where he called out "the EVPs" of AEW in addition to Hangman Page, Colt Cabana and MJF with inflammatory language.

Steel and Pat Buck will not be at Wednesday's Dynamite, but it's unconfirmed if they are officially suspended. Meltzer said he also believes the others involved in the fight will also not be brought to Buffalo.

As of now, there are only two officially announced matches in ROH Pure Champion Wheeler Yuta defending against Daniel Garcia, and Best Friends & Orange Cassidy vs. Death Triangle. New no. 1 contender MJF will also talk following his surprise return Sunday.

[supersonic]

This is something to also take into consideration that Punk has repeatedly mentioned. The culture of the locker room has been quite off-putting for some time, which is why I believe Sunday night was a culmination of a pushback towards an attitude that so much of the roster has, in particular those on the BTE side or who were indy stars over the past 5-8 years.

https://www.wrestlingnewssource.com/new ... Help-Some/

During the latest DDP Snakepit podcast, DDP spoke about trying to help some younger talent in AEW.

“There’s not enough of it. I love working for folks. This little run I’ve been doing with Lance Archer and everything, I’ve tried to help some guys and they just shun me off. And I just sit there with my mouth often, like, ‘did this guy just blow me off?’ And I had one guy tell me, ‘hey man, I got my contract.’ Wow. But it’s a different age today. It’s more business today. And these guys back in the old days, you’d walk around with a six-pack in your back. These guys today come around with a computer in their bag, and they’ve got this and they’ve got that. They’re schooling themselves differently, and that’s okay.”

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/bill ... eran-minds

For Billy Gunn, he would like to see the young talent take more advantage of the guys who they share the backstage area with.

"I think they could do a better job of it," said Gunn on Busted Open Radio when asked about young talent utilizing veteran minds. "Honestly, that's one of the things, we have some of the....Arn, Dean, Tully, Jerry, you have some of the greatest talent minds that are in the business and I feel they don't take full advantage of it. I feel they need to take more advantage of it. Sometimes, I think they are in their own head and, not that they know it all, but they kind of don't want someone to tell them different from what their game plan is. I feel like it needs to be more and that they don't take full advantage of what they have in front of them."

When asked what Gunn would change in regards to the young talent and they way they work, he said he wants them to slow down in certain situations.

"Back down on half of the stuff that they do. For me, that's the biggest thing. THere is a time and place to crack out all your stuff, but I feel they are so young and they don't realize that their bodies are not going to be able to take this, so they literally go out there...it's not that they're working hard, they feel like if they don't get to do all their stuff, they're not working hard. That's not the case. No to diminish the YouTube show, but if I'm with an extra and I have four minutes on our YouTube show, I don't have to do a 450 and a Spanish Fly and everything in my arsenal every time I'm out there. I feel they don't know how to go, 'I want to do this and this, so let me workaround to get to this so I get the most out of that move.' It's just move after move after move after flip after dive and they don't structure matches like how you would structure stuff around, 'Hey, I want to do this one dive, but I'm going to do four dives before I get to that, but I want everyone to react to this one.' They're not going to. When you come inside the ring to outside the ring, that's a dive whether you do a crappy dive or a jump dive, it doesn't matter, you're going from inside to outside. I wouldn't mind seeing them back down a bit. Then, if you're in the main event or you have a big spot with a signed talent, then you can do a little more, but they just go everything and their bodies are not going to hold up," he said.

Gunn continued by saying, "They're not letting the people getting emotionally invested in them and letting them absorb what their personalities are because it's 'go, go, go.' The hardest thing for people to teach is 'don't do anything and get the most out of it,' and selling appropriately. It's just 'go go go' and the people never have time to catch up. They think that if the people are making noise, they are over. 'I'm it, did you hear the people?' They don't know you, they're just popping on the move stuff because they can't do it. It's just a reaction to something you're doing and it's forgotten about the next time someone walks out the tunnel. A lot of it is not letting people in to what their character is or who they are. The more they let people in to let people know who they are and get invested in them, the better off they are."

https://itrwrestling.com/news/adam-page ... ke-advice/

Speaking at Galaxycon, Adam Page admitted that he’s not someone that seeks advice from these colleagues and questions if, given his success, he needs to be listening to it:

“Oh boy, I don’t know, I’m stubborn, I don’t take advice. It’s a good question and that’s probably the honest answer. I listen to people say things, but very rarely do I listen hard. I was part of the movement that created the entire company and I’m a world champion. I don’t know that I need their advice. I’ll certainly listen, but there is something to be said about trial and error and doing it on our own. I take more pride in that.”

I can't find it, but I remember years ago Samoa Joe gloating very heavily about Gunn's mind for the business. Punk represents that generation who doesn't take kindly to the "yeah whatever" response that Page's generation is giving veterans that are giving them feedback from a good place.

[DougN]

They weren't trying to get in the way of NJPW's USA expansion plans, which AEW very clearly was.

Not what you originally said, but sure, let's move the goal posts. Let's ignore the fact that NJPW had no American rights to any of the talent, even as they tried to do USA expansion plans. The bottom line is that their contracts expired and they were free to go elsewhere.

What's really funny here is that NJPW themselves admitted in 2016 that they wanted to move into the US with AJ and the Good Brothers as the core. But AJ went to WWE. So again, it's a double-standard because you personally dislike The Elite.

AJ Styles, The Good Brothers, and Nakamura was a much bigger loss for New Japan than Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. They lost their top gaijin AND one of their four aces in one fell swoop. It would have been like if Omega took Naito or Tanahashi with him. And Nakamura has been outright in saying that AJ helped him in negotiations with WWE. So where's the outrage there?

As for the "locker room" stuff you're posting about, it's less about the locker room and more about the perceived young talent not seeking out veterans for advice. And that's already been touched upon -- some guys do (Hobbs, Jungle Boy, Jade, Garcia), and some guys don't (Darby, Sammy, Sabian). But the problem is that a lot of the people that Mark Henry and Billy Gunn are talking about are people who shouldn't really be getting advice anyway. Christian specifically talked about how he had to stop himself from advising some people there because they had careers before they got there and weren't just a rookie.

But you're posting that to slam Hangman Page and therefore The Elite because again, you hate The Elite. So let's address it. The Hangman Page "drama" you posted about seems to be centered around him not taking advice from Punk, who then had a hissy fit. Which is BEYOND rich considering how Punk handled himself in OVW, WWECW, and then the main roster. Even if you ignore the whole saga of Tony Atlas which was predicated on other OVW coaches not liking Punk because he didn't listen to them, you've got Edge, Jericho, Triple H, and Undertaker who have all stated that Punk outright didn't listen to their advice.

So you're clutching your pearls over a story about Hangman not taking advice from CM Punk, who famously made it without taking advice from people and even revels in that fact in shoot interviews.

This whole thing is stupid. You've been gleeful about this drama since it started because it paints The Elite in a bad light. Get rid of your hate boner and maybe we can actually talk about the situation. And sure, The Elite come off bad here too, storming the locker room as actual EVPs. But to just ignore Punk's bullshit is just cherry-picking your outrage on a bad situation.

[indyfan]

It looks like everyones getting suspended

[DougN]

It's the right call for the short term. Suspend everyone. But how long you suspend them for and what the ultimate outcome for Punk and Steel is what matters.

[supersonic]

They weren't trying to get in the way of NJPW's USA expansion plans, which AEW very clearly was.

Not what you originally said, but sure, let's move the goal posts. Let's ignore the fact that NJPW had no American rights to any of the talent, even as they tried to do USA expansion plans. The bottom line is that their contracts expired and they were free to go elsewhere.

What's really funny here is that NJPW themselves admitted in 2016 that they wanted to move into the US with AJ and the Good Brothers as the core. But AJ went to WWE. So again, it's a double-standard because you personally dislike The Elite.

AJ Styles, The Good Brothers, and Nakamura was a much bigger loss for New Japan than Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. They lost their top gaijin AND one of their four aces in one fell swoop. It would have been like if Omega took Naito or Tanahashi with him. And Nakamura has been outright in saying that AJ helped him in negotiations with WWE. So where's the outrage there?

As for the "locker room" stuff you're posting about, it's less about the locker room and more about the perceived young talent not seeking out veterans for advice. And that's already been touched upon -- some guys do (Hobbs, Jungle Boy, Jade, Garcia), and some guys don't (Darby, Sammy, Sabian). But the problem is that a lot of the people that Mark Henry and Billy Gunn are talking about are people who shouldn't really be getting advice anyway. Christian specifically talked about how he had to stop himself from advising some people there because they had careers before they got there and weren't just a rookie.

But you're posting that to slam Hangman Page and therefore The Elite because again, you hate The Elite. So let's address it. The Hangman Page "drama" you posted about seems to be centered around him not taking advice from Punk, who then had a hissy fit. Which is BEYOND rich considering how Punk handled himself in OVW, WWECW, and then the main roster. Even if you ignore the whole saga of Tony Atlas which was predicated on other OVW coaches not liking Punk because he didn't listen to them, you've got Edge, Jericho, Triple H, and Undertaker who have all stated that Punk outright didn't listen to their advice.

So you're clutching your pearls over a story about Hangman not taking advice from CM Punk, who famously made it without taking advice from people and even revels in that fact in shoot interviews.

This whole thing is stupid. You've been gleeful about this drama since it started because it paints The Elite in a bad light. Get rid of your hate boner and maybe we can actually talk about the situation. And sure, The Elite come off bad here too, storming the locker room as actual EVPs. But to just ignore Punk's bullshit is just cherry-picking your outrage on a bad situation.

https://twitter.com/rich_fann/status/15 ... ad9bTanQ7w