Punk actually disrupting the humdrum locker room harmony?

[supersonic]

This is the moment I've been waiting for (assuming it's in any way true.) I'm tired of the BTE crew's feelings being catered to in order to keep the locker room in false harmony. More guys like Punk and MJF that stir shit up on and off-screen please.

Note that this is a C&P from an indirect social media group, as I don't have a Select subscription.

Fightful Select: CM Punk "may have almost decided to not come to Dynamite" last night.

CM Punk challenged Hangman Page to a rematch on the August 17 episode of AEW Dynamite, but according to Wrestling Observer, it wasn't planned. We were able to confirm this.

Punk defeated Hangman Page at AEW Double or Nothing earlier this year before being forced away from the ring for several months. Before that, however, there was word that Punk and Hangman Page didn't see eye to eye on some promo material that emerged on an episode of Dynamite that built their match. Fightful has been told that it was to the point that CM Punk met with AEW higher ups about the context of Hangman Page's promo. Voices of Wrestling had noted that they'd heard that Punk had told others after the meeting in May, that he wouldn't lose to Hangman Page.
Fightful was told by several within AEW that they felt the situation that unfolded on the August 17 episode of Dynamite was "unfair" to Hangman Page if he wasn't aware of it. One said "even if he was aware of it, what would he have done? Charged to the ring past Tony (Khan)? Interrupted a promo he knew he wasn't supposed to be a part of? There was no way Hangman could have 'won' in that situation." We're told Hangman Page was in the building, but haven't heard that he responded in any particular way. Those that we spoke to said that Hangman isn't a confrontational person and is generally well-liked among the roster.

The belief among several on the roster we spoke to was that Punk believed Hangman went into business for himself leading into their Double or Nothing match, and that Punk may have seen the August 17 promo as a "receipt." It's important to note that was locker room speculation as opposed to Punk telling anyone that directly. From Punk's end of things, the Hangman promo had alluded to Punk's issues with Colt Cabana, and happened during a week where Punk wasn't at the show, while Punk's shot at Hangman happened with Hangman present.

Sources familiar with the situation claim that CM Punk has often verbally expressed his displeasure, including recently so blatantly that they thought he might end up quitting the company. Those close to him said that he might have almost decided to stay home instead of coming to the August 17 Dynamite, but don't think he would have quit. We haven't been given any indication that he plans on leaving AEW, but one veteran said they have heard of "threats being levied."

Fightful was also told that the Moxley vs. Punk match for the August 24 episode of AEW Dynamite was a late decision. We haven't been told how late, and when we asked AEW higher ups for context, we didn't gain any. We haven't learned the crux of what led to Punk's current frustrations that would have led to him hypothetically not showing up at Dynamite, whether it be the change in the match, Hangman's jab back in may or otherwise.

[DougN]

Starting the post with "This is the moment I've been waiting for" is pretty bad.

That said, there's definitely something going on. The degree of which is unsure. But also, I've just noticed this really weird bubble mentality within AEW the last 6 months that has it tracking to go down the path of WWE to stagnation, resentment, and stubbornness. They aren't even CLOSE to being there, but people close to or in AEW are not even willing to have any type of discussion about flaws, holes, weaknesses, et cetera within the product. It's about shifting the blame, especially as people leave.

All I'll say about Cabana is that you can actively trace his disappearance from the product coinciding with Punk's negotiations in summer last year. Even if you factor in an reported injury he has and his time spent filming Young Rock. And yeah, he wasn't a pushed guy and wasn't going to be a main eventer, but that's not the point. It's about one guy forcing out another guy, whether directly or indirectly.

[supersonic]

Many started getting phased out when Punk AND OTHER BIG STARS came in. Jack Evans, Marko Stunt, and Joey Janela are gone. Brian Cage may as well be considered a Missing Persons case. The roster got more bloated, which inevitably led to more talents being de-prioritized, and the jobbers becoming a complete non-priority. It sounds like a reach, especially since Joe and Castagnoli (far, FAR bigger names than Cabana, and the former still friends with Punk) appear to be pushed primarily with the ROH brand name.

Either way, I'm tired of the lack of spark that I largely blame on the mentioned "locker room harmony" that centers on the BTE/EVP crew. More vets like Punk who won't take their shit, who take themselves seriously and have that part of personality bleed into their on-screen content, less like Jericho who give up on giving out advice in favor of just repeatedly lobbying for himself to be a highly-pushed lampoon act and tied to and propped up by every future potential star.

[DougN]

Agree and disagree. I find it especially funny about the line about Jericho considering he's just overused at this point. He needs to fade into the background now.

Brian Cage was already been phased out BEFORE Punk and everyone else came in. But yes, to everyone else. To be honest, I don't mind people leaving. The roster can't sustain itself even if the big names didn't come in. And guys should cycle in and out to keep things fresh. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that all voice the same excuse of "poor communication" and "no direction" and are then ridiculed for it.

[indyfan]

Sounds like Punk is being a bitch. This isnt 2005 anymore. Page is better wrestler than him too.


Tiny Kahn will side with Punk though.

But yeah fanboying for Punk because hes from the ROH golden years is funny as fuck though.

i think hes mad the locker room wants Cabana there and stood up for him

[supersonic]

Punk and MJF (who was busy being an elementary school kid during the ROH glory period) represent the antithesis of the BTE/EVPs crew: unafraid to light a spark even if rubs others the wrong way. As the latter said, those two make fans “feel” in ways the Hangman and his lighthearted, mostly short-term booking focused buddies seem completely unable and/or unwilling to attempt.

Fuck that locker room harmony that never resonates into any meaningful drink-stirring. Let their feelings be hurt and then use it actually cut visceral promos that’ll draw genuine buzz and heat. It’s time for that crew to grow up as personalities and this really should be the spark that does it.

Then again, this is the same crew that refuses to do the no-brained program with Cornette because they don’t understand how his pontificating lashes at them could actually draw heat. (And yes, I’d absolutely bring him as Punk’s mouthpiece. No, I don’t care that he lacks diplomatic ways of speaking criticism on his podcasts and social media.)

Right now, [Wight] believes the current WWE roster is “too friendly” with each other.

“It’s too nice. Too friendly,” he revealed. “People are too comfortable and too happy to be working there. Vince will tell you himself, ‘if you don’t step on toes, you’re never gonna make it in this business.’ I wanna see some toe-stepping.”

Big Show continued, “I’m not saying be a dick in the locker room. I wanna see somebody that stands up, does business, and has that drive that, if he has to eat through somebody, that’s fine. We’re not all friends. We’re here to make money…”

[DougN]

I'm really struggling to pull out the worst statement from that post, but arguing that Hangman and the Bucks can't make people "feel" like MJF and CM Punk do is so short-sighted, stubborn, and just flat-out wrong that it bears calling out. Hangman's ascension is literally built on fans "feeling" something and the Bucks were very much a crucial part of that storyline.

I'm also surprised that people are still saying Bucks and Omega should do an angle with Cornette after all this time. "Lacks diplomatic ways of speaking criticism" is the most backwards way of describing someone as a desperate troll I've ever heard.

[supersonic]

There's a significant amount of truth behind Cornette's observations about the BTE crew, and it's up to the audience to just take the good with the bad.

The heat that Punk & Cornette could pull together would be magical, the kind of visceral shit-stirring that CZW pulled in ROH during the cream-of-the-crop angle. The zingers on both sides could really hit as well, from the often way-too-lighthearted nature of the BTE crew and their lack of long-form blood feuds, to Cornette's horrendous performance when he was the unofficial ROH showrunner and booked the likes of Dan Severn and the Headbangers instead of the Bucks and Cabana.

[DougN]

It's up to the audience to take the good with the bad? Do you really have that much of a hatred towards Young Bucks, Omega, and Hangman that a guy who literally foams at the mouth when talking about AEW starts to make sense? It's not even worth pulling a list of his most inane takes. There's not liking something, and there's living your life to tear shit down. Claiming there is significant truth in Cornette's "content" is like trying to argue Alex Jones had a point somewhere in his incoherent, demonic ramblings. You're literally swimming in shit trying to find gold.

I legit cannot fathom that you have brought Cornette into this argument and are taken a stance of moral superiority just because some people have a vlog and do wrestling differently than you like. Jesus Christ man.

[supersonic]

You severely underestimate the portion of the wrestling consumer base that Cornette tends to represent with his incredibly vocal, arguably pretentious takes against the business becoming less rugged/masculine. It was actually his incredibly high praise of Punk and Danielson that drew me to give him a listen, and the more I did so (having to filter through obvious lowbrow insults), the more I realized the amount of heat he could genuinely stir being alongside someone like Punk or MJF.

If the guy's a gimmick to some degree, I don't fucking care. He can tap into visceral emotions and be the gas on the CM Punk fire that appears to have started. The on-screen product of the wrestling industry has less of a bite now as a result of becoming more repellent against malcontent shit-stirring assholes.

And yes, both Punk and Hangman are unprofessional man-children for inserting shit into their promos that have nothing to do with the stories they're supposed to be selling. Who the fuck says the business needs to be headlined by utmost professionals and "good cops" like Foley or Danielson?

I say let them both know not to do it again, but let's also draw some fucking heat and money. Can we actually have a world title program for once that has something resembling substantial heat? I certainly didn't see one until this past Wednesday with the pull-apart (although the worked punches were absolutely abysmal), a year into me jumping on the bandwagon. It certainly never happened while Hangman was champ and being viscerally outshined by whatever Punk was doing.

[DougN]

You severely underestimate the portion of the wrestling consumer base that Cornette tends to represent with his incredibly vocal, arguably pretentious takes against the business becoming less rugged/masculine.

I'll direct you to my previous point on Alex Jones.

Giving praise to people like Cornette debases every form of discourse.

[supersonic]

You're being incredibly narrow and closed-minded.

Highly-polarizing characters are perfect on-screen contributors for a storytelling medium that's supposed to be rooted in conflict.

[DougN]

So we're going to reward people for being deranged and psychopathic in real life?

It's not being narrow and close-minded. You can totally have highly-polarizing characters -- the fact that you're so quick to go "this is the moment I've been waiting for" shows that. But we don't need to dredge into the seedy underbelly to grab that, especially from guys who's understanding of the business stopped in the mid-2000s.

[supersonic]

I don't find someone who stands for the business to be more rugged as a seedy underbelly, no matter how much he leans into being an attention-seeking shit-stirrer for metrics reasons when shitting on the BTE crew.

I want the kind of heat in AEW that ROH vs. CZW had. I've yet to see anybody pitch an idea for that kind of heat that doesn't involve Cornette to stand by the side of Punk, MJF, FTR, etc. When someone musters up the effort to come up with a better idea to generate sweltering heat, let me know.

[DougN]

This is just a lot of words for you to just say "I'm a Cornette fan no matter what and he should be on my TV screen."

It's just been this constant devolving into that sentence through everything. "Well, he has a point some times, but is crude." "Well, I actually started listening to him and he does make sense to me." "Well, AEW is an idiot for not hiring someone of his caliber."

The vast, vast majority of fans do not want Jim Cornette on screen. The vast, vast majority of AEW people do not want Jim Cornette employed.

But sure, he really owns The Elite each week on his podcast and he gets me super pumped. Let's get him on TV for everyone.

But no, I'm narrow-minded.

[Reaper G]

You severely underestimate the portion of the wrestling consumer base that Cornette tends to represent with his incredibly vocal, arguably pretentious takes against the business becoming less rugged/masculine.

I'll direct you to my previous point on Alex Jones.

Giving praise to people like Cornette debases every form of discourse.

The sad thing is, Cornette is right about the beauty of old school wrestling and is a bastion of knowledge of wrestling history. Someone like him should be invaluable to the business. But he's such a raving lunatic who got himself blackballed from the industry that he undermines his own cause.

[DougN]

Yup, totally agree. Cornette is one of maybe 6 people with perfect factual knowledge and business understanding of wrestling up until about 2005. It was around like 2006/2007 when he started completely losing touch.

If you want to hear Cornette talk about wrestling in the '80s or '90s, it's going to be good for the most part. Analysis on anything in the last 15 years? Nope, the business passed him and he couldn't see it.

[Wavelet Transform]

Yes, easy to forget that Corny has a wealth of knowledge because of the dumb, hateful trolling. I don't know if he's just playing a character or genuinely believes what he says. The thing I could never understand is that he, the Midnight Express, and the RnR Express must have heard the exact criticisms he throws at Kenny and the Bucks. If Karl Gotch thought Harley Race was a clown, one can only imagine what he and the other old timers thought of those teams and the Cornette sideshow outside the ring.

I think Meltzer's perspective that if it makes me money / gets a reaction then it works is the right way to look at it. I loathe Danhausen, but the dude sells a lot of shirts and, for that reason (probably only), he has a job with a major promotion. Cornette's too narrow-minded to see it that way.

[DougN]

I don't know if he's just playing a character or genuinely believes what he says.

It's both. He's definitely amplifying himself on the podcast, but he also legit hates Kenny and others. Part of that comes from the business lapping him and the other part of it is sour grapes from his time with ROH which backfired on him because.... the business lapped him.

[Reaper G]

Yes, easy to forget that Corny has a wealth of knowledge because of the dumb, hateful trolling. I don't know if he's just playing a character or genuinely believes what he says. The thing I could never understand is that he, the Midnight Express, and the RnR Express must have heard the exact criticisms he throws at Kenny and the Bucks. If Karl Gotch thought Harley Race was a clown, one can only imagine what he and the other old timers thought of those teams and the Cornette sideshow outside the ring.

And fifty years from now, grumpy old men in the tattered remnants of their Bullet Club shirts will be grumbling about how the wrestlers to come weren't as good as the Young Bucks.

There really is a beauty to the psychology and storytelling in old school wrestling, but that has to be combined with the modern style. And the only people who want to listen to grumpy old men are other grumpy old men.